Being social allows you to build your network and gain a few more connections. Well, if you're well-mannered and aware of the world around you. If you rely solely on an application form, it's still possible to get a job, of course, but IMO you're limiting your options.

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I understand your frustration, but you've got a very limited idea of what's useful and what isn't.

Employers look for drive, initiative, work ethic, and, yes, social skills. All of the jobs you listed require people skills. Any cashier is likely to have the technical skills, but out of those applicants, an employer will pick a sociable person over a grumpy person who's only there out of necessity any day.

Have you even looked at the volunteer opportunities in your area? There may be something connected to a field of work you're open to. It's a good way to make connections, and that might be what you're missing. Like Sierra said - relying on qualifications alone limits your options. Plenty of people are as qualified. You need to give them a reason to pick you.

You know what my work ethic is? I would come into work with a sprained ankle. The only times I'd stay home is if I started running a temperature or had broken something, both cases in which I would be in no position to properly work, be it due to the temperature making me think funny or plain old painkillers making me goofy. Or simply pain doing that.

I have nothing against taking on more work if I am asked to. I'll stay behind if something needs to be done. I'll even do actions that aren't in my job description if it's necessary to get something done. Translation: I am the freaking avatar of what they want in a worker. Won't talk back unless really, really pushed, will take on work at a moment's notice and barely takes sick days.
And believe me, I tell them that during interviews. The part of how I would only stay home when it's important, not that they should hire me cause I'm the best thing to happen to them since sliced bread.

Also, socially, I'm a chameleon. I'll adapt to whatever social aspect they want me to be. I'll be open and smiley during an interview and can even switch to a smile during my job when I'm feeling down (unless I am really down and something breaks my mask, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who does that) so they have no real reason to not take me for not being social enough.

C-A

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That's great, but how are they supposed to know that's true if you don't have references to back it up? When you say you'll do anything, they might think you're desperate. Even if you are, you don't want them to think that. If other people support you, it comes across as more sincere. It might not be fair, but that's how it works sometimes.

I HAVE references! Two of law offices I worked for, which includes duties a receptionist would do. And one from a cashier job I had. And I'm still waiting on one for the spa I worked for.

C-A

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Well Cat we are not your ex-employers *shrug* I can't say what problems they have with you. Either way sometimes it's just damn hard to get a job. Most folks I know either got a job as a guaranteed follow-on from their education or because they knew someone in the biz.

Personally I'd say you might be a bit high-maintenance though. If employers could see how you are here they might be afraid of you doing a lot of disapproval about work and afraid you'd sue them at the drop of a hat the amount you complain about businesses.

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...Pierre, I live with a legal assistant. I know the law. I know I can't sue my work place for "not liking my job" or similar. Something pretty damn big has to happen for me to actually take steps in suing my work place. Like, if a supervisor were to harrass me. Then I'd complain.

And what's wrong with venting over my job? My mother does it towards me. Other people have something to vent about! Even people who love their jobs, my mom loves her job, but there are times where she has to vent about it because something happened. Venting is good! Better than keeping things bottled up.

I know nobody here is my ex-employer. If you were, I'd be wondering. But that's also an annoyance of getting rejected. Every damn rejecting letter is either "We apologize for not being able to include your application in a closer selection" or "We have chosen a different applicant" and similar. The more of those I get, the more depressed I get... which is a vicious cycle, because the lower my mood, the less likely I send applications, but that's beside the point.
None of those letters tell me WHY I'm not taken. Why not? Did I... not look the part? (sorry, I lack money to keep myself dressed to the height of office fashion) Did I make a mistake when working there as a test? (Well I'm new to that place, I should be allowed, or at least it should not be a huge deal breaker, for me to make a mistake) Did I say something wrong? Or do you think something in my application looked off?
I want to know WHY and not the stupid "brush hands off responsibility and an answer" crap.

C-A

PS: Dear mods, could we maybe bring a rule into this thread of "No chatting"? Cause I'm sick and tired of feeling like I have to defend my need and reason to vent when all I wanted to do was freaking VENT!

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Hey Cat, I just want to say I'm sorry that I didn't grasp how you feel.

You might be wondering what brought this up: Well, I just found out that a friend of mine who applied to the same role I did got the role I wanted (which only had one vacancy), despite me having four months of relevant work experience (whereas he had none) and astronomically higher grades.

I'm trying not to take it out on my friend (so far I haven't, surprising even myself), but I can't help but feel a similar sort of injustice to what you might feel. Really, really sorry.

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For Mods: As a counterpoint, I think 'chatting' as Cat puts it should still be allowed here.

There's nothing that says people can't provide advice or opinions on Vents in the original rules and indeed it has gone on for many many vents in this thread.

If anything there should be a rule where on a vent by vent basis, vents can mention "No Reply Necessary" in which case no 'chatting' would apply to that specific one. As I said before if you don't want people to talk about or have any opinion on your problems, write them in a diary or something like that.

Though Cat I didn't mean like specifically for "not liking your job" but in cases like maybe "Unfair dismissal" or something.

But yeah applications are pretty dumb and it can be infuriating when you don't get proper feedback. In fact I'm pretty sure they have to justify their decision to let someone go legally (though as you said you know the law) so perhaps you can chase them up about why they did what they did. Otherwise I think that's where "Unfair Dismissal" actually comes in.

In my experience some interviews offer feedback at the end but what really bothers me is when you get rejected at the application stage, then they aren't obliged to give you any indication of what went wrong. Hell some places won't even tell you you didn't get the part, you'll just receive nothing after you send away an application. It's problematic because it doesn't allow any growth at all, it's just sheer trial and error, changing little parts here and there until it just gets through.

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That story reminded me of a time when me and my bestfriend went to apply to the same job together so that we could work at the same place but when we went to apply he got the job first since he went in first and I ended up not getting it because he took the last spot. I ended up walking away upset and sat at a nearby park bench upset.

:(

Brohug, man. Brohug.

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Brohug indeed D:

In the end though it was fine since I did find a job which gave me experience to actually be able to build up my resume.

That's good!

Likewise, the same company did offer me a role in the end - just not the one I wanted. That doesn't mean the whole thing didn't sting a bit.

And on the bright side, a valuable lesson was learnt today: Those who work hardest are not guaranteed success - it's more important to be likeable. How an unsightly guy with an ethnic background everyone hates can be likeable, I don't know, but I'll be damned if I don't try.

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Last edited by Yellow Magician on Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thats good that you at least were able to still get a position at the company you wanted to work in. I bet it ddi sting but at least you got the job which is good.

I think the lesson learned should be that friends shouldn't try to apply at the same place. Not just cause one can take the spot, but also because... well, being friends with a co-worker can really interfere with your job. (Same reason I dislike job romances)

C-A

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I'd agree it's not a guaranteed success but I'd never say it's more important to likeable. Suave as he may be James Bond can't chat his way through a surgery after all.

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Yeah me and my friend learned from that mistake so we don't apply together for the same jobs. I have to agree that It wouldn't be good since it can cause distraction between each other unless they take the job serious.

Yeah, if I had known the department my friend and I had listed as our first choice had only one vacancy, then I definitely would not have gone for it.



Obviously you have to know your stuff to begin with, but if you're not pretty (man or woman), tall, white, chatty, or smiling like an idiot all the time good luck beating the competition.

Of course, I can only say this based on my experiences, but considering the cold, hard facts, I don't think it's a stretch to believe that employers are THAT shallow. It's human nature, I Guess.

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I dunno, I kinda think... or maybe it's just me, that someone who is not social makes a better worker. A less social worker is less likely to go and party until 2 AM, come home late and sleep a bit, then turn up at work not fully rested and maybe even smelling of alcohol. Stuff like that.

C-A

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IMO, it's less to do with being a better worker and more to do with the employer liking you. Meritocracy's a myth.

(which is weird because I thought that was mostly the case in the US, as far as developed society goes. I guess not.)

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I just read a tiny part of a trop for Kyou Koi who Hajimemasu, a shoujo manga I overall enjoyed reading, although it dragged at parts and I found Tsubaki to be spineless for a long time. But I have to ask this...

What is it with every shoujo manga making the heroine a fucking doormat!?

C-A

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My morning today started off pretty badly. Awhile back I did some cosplay for an anime convention which involved a white labcoat. I didn't want it to just hang in my closet after one use, so I decided that I wanted to wear it irregularly to school. Today was an double period of science (lab day), so I thought why the hell not. It's stylish, it's unique, and it symbolizes my love of science.

Not even a minute after I started going downstairs, my mother starts screaming at me to take it off. She tells me that I'll "stand out" and be "different" than everyone else. I kept trying to tell her that there's nothing wrong with being "different," but then she threatened me saying that she'll make me walk to school. I live far away from the building and it was too late for me to walk, I reluctantly went upstairs and took it off.

The trip to school was a nightmare. My mother lambasted me the whole way there. She called me disrespectful, defiant, rebellious, and having a bad attitude. Quite frankly, I find those accusations to be unfounded. Disrespectful? If that was true, I wouldn't have a lovely girlfriend (whom I show the utmost care for), be part of all these professional journalistic websites, and nor would I be praised by my teachers at school. I have all of that and more, which is due to me knowing how to treat and interact with people. Defiant and rebellious? In some degrees, perhaps. But hasn't practically every single great figure in history been "defiant" in some way? The Founding Fathers of America? Nelson Mandela? Martin Luther King Jr.? Why is calling me defiant supposed to be an insult? I'm someone who's a strict independent, free thinking, non-conformist. Living in one of the trashiest, conformist places out there puts me at odds with a lot of the norms here, but defiant? If it's in regards to these shallow conditions I'm surrounded by, then yes I am. So is that honestly a bad thing? As for a bad attitude, that's purely subjective. Besides from my mother, I have never heard that complaint from ANYONE.

Then she went off on some tangent about how the stuff that I'm reading, watching, and playing is negatively influencing me with "sick" thoughts. Seriously? Does my mother think that I'm like four, where every little thing is going to "influence" my mind. Jesus, it's all fiction. And I know the difference between what's fictitious and what's fact. She's one of those adults who doesn't understand video games, and instantly thinks that if it has an M rating or violence, that's it's going to cause me to be a horrible person. Do these adults honestly think that video games cause violence? It's been proven time and time again that there is absolutely no correlation. In fact, the only aggression you'd get is losing due to the game's rules themselves. You can become "aggressive" if someone shuts off the power while just before you reach the end. But again, that applies to nearly every situation where you're invested in something and someone interrupts it. And on the subject of violence itself, the majority of gamers don't play specifically for it. Rather, they play it so they can experience the narrative, gameplay, and use of strategy to achieve in-game goals. Something like Red Dead Redemption or Metal Gear even shows the consequences of violence in their stories. It's crap like this that really pisses me off because older people simply don't understand our hobby. It's a cycle that repeats endlessly with every generation and with every new piece of popular media.

Honestly, my mother would probably be way more shocked to see the kind of assigned literature they give us at school. Farewell to Arms and The English Patient for example are very adult books with themes and sensibilities. Either way, I consider myself to be very mature especially compared to other people my age. I can handle whatever is put in front of me, and nothing is going to force me to do anything stupid or violent.

Then she threatened me with forcing me to walk to school every day, and even kicking me out of the house to live with my father (parents are divorced). And all of this was over me wearing a labcoat. Adults act so stupid and childish sometimes. I've become really sick of my parents as of late, but I still have the rest of this year and my senior year to complete before I finish high school. Plus, I'm still a minor. I can't wait to get out of this horrible place.

Sorry for the wall of text rant. Totally understand if it's a TL;DR situation for a lot of you. And I can totally get where you're coming from, Cat in regards to your issues with your mother. Know that you're not alone.

I been applying at jobs every day and never gotten a single call from them. I am so pissed off it aint even funny. This fucking economy is the fucking reason why I haven't got a single fucking call. Fuck the Fucking economy Fuckers.


Pardon the f bombs.

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Of course they do. Because they don't understand them. I don't think videogames cause violence. I think they're good stress-relievers to play a Fighting (or Shooting) Game, when you're in a bad mood. People who honestly think videogames cause violence like amok runs or similar just don't want to see the truth: that the people who do play videogames and then do something violent already had a mental problem before playing videogames. The videogames were probably just a small catalyst, compared to other reasons. But if they admitted to that, they may have to admit that their country isn't great, their parenting isn't great or something else in their perfect little rainbow world isn't great.

C-A

PS: I dunno, couldn't you have put the coat into your backpack and put it on when you were at school? Also a lab coat on science day... I fail to see why that is bad. Won't you be forced to wear some kind of protective lab gear to begin with?

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Yeah from what I remember the science section of the University of Glasgow at least made owning your own labcoat the norm and sold them in shops so it wasn't such a bizarre sight for me. I can't imagine it was the labcoat alone that made your mother snap so perhaps she was just having a bad day but yeah she's wrong about a lot of things but that's just how things were for her generation.

Though like Cat said, just stuff it in a schoolbag or something and don it once you get out of sight. I can't imagine the school will have a problem with it.

Though why wear it to school all the time though? I'd understand wearing it for your science class but otherwise I'd keep it in my bag until the class. They hardly look particularly warm and don't have hoods to keep off rain.

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Hopefully that since we're more educated now, we won't repeat the same mistakes when we're all old people. I'll at least try to make an honest attempt to be familiar with what ever current technology exists 50 years from now.

That's because I didn't think my mother would freak out so much. Now I can't do it, because she'll know if I take it to school. I only have one after all.



*shrugs* I personally think that they look stylish for regular wear, though I'd probably just wear it for science like you said. But like I said to Cat, I won't be able to wear it ever now without my mother losing it.

No, I find that my mother is always like that. She has multiple sclerosis which probably affects her personality a lot. She yells at me constantly which always ruins how I feel. Not only that, but sometimes she'll tell me one thing, then completely contradict herself later in saying that I can't do it. I always find it miserable at this house. There's my father's place, but it's arguably worse. He comes from a Chinese background, and you've probably guessed from the media, but they're extremely strict when it comes to academics. My father's expectations are so high, that it only adds more unwanted stress. And when he gets angry, though rare as it is, it's ten times worse than my mother.

So really, the only solace I have is going to school. I used to hate that too, but it's practically the only time I can see my girlfriend. It's difficult for us to hang out since I can't drive and we live on opposite sides of the school district. However, we have been on a few nice dates like going to the local games and movies store, spending an afternoon at a cafe after school, and going to Tekkoshocon an anime convention. We're going to see the new Captain America film next week too, since we have a four day weekend for Spring Break (yes, it's that short ). Her 18th birthday is next month and she's also getting her drivers license around that time, so hopefully they'll be more chances for us to hang out.

On that note, I also think that she's starting to open up to me more. It's at a slow pace, but I'm fine with that. I believe that as each day passes, our relationship grows stronger. So at least, I have being with her to keep me happy.

Which economy is to blame? Here in the Netherlands we have a record for youth unemployment rates, but I personally don't have trouble with finding jobs. Neither does my friend who is part polish, as a matter of fact he changed (he didn't like his previous job) last week. Apart from the economy, why do you think you can't get a job?



I can imagine you're having a hard time convincing your mother to see things your way. I'm no expert on U.S. media, but the general stigma there is that games are bad and 'different' behavior leads to a defiant child. Note that it takes a very open minded person to change his or her point of view when speaking with someone who is a lot younger than yourself, especially when it's your own child. It sounds like this is definitely not the case with you and your mom. The thing is, until you are financially independent the only thing you can do is endure it. So good luck with that.

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frhgtgggtraq2

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Excuse me, what?

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I had to vent something so that's what I did.

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Is there something on your mind you want to share then?

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I think it's Angrish, a language you speak only when very annoyed and too intense of a feeling to really express in words properly. (You know, like the random stuff you yell when you, like, stub your toe)

C-A

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It's a move sequel

Fungal Radishes Have Gunky Tips, Great Giggling Giants Tell Randy And Quincy, part 2

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Still probably would better than 99.9% of media that they put out there today. But that's a whole huge vent in and of itself.

Oh yeah, just thought of a real vent.

The other day, my mother was dropping off me and my brother to school. We were in the teacher's parking lot, when some crazy schoolgirl bitch raced past us and hit the left side mirror. Luckily the glass didn't shatter, but it was very close. My mother opens the window and tells her to watch where she's going next time. Of course, the bitch just goes on about how she should have been closer to the curb. WHAT THE FUCK!? WE WERE PRACTICALLY TOUCHING IT, was basically what I wanted to scream at her as I entered the building. Not wanting to create a scene though, I didn't.

I later found out that she was using her parent's car with a handicapped sign. Really, she's just using it so she can get better parking spots where she'd normally not be allowed. The nerve of some people when driving.

Speaking which, last weekend I saw a poor black lab dog get hit by a zooming car. It was chasing a squirrel into the streets, and a car hit it from the side. It didn't even stop, the bastards. The dog seemed okay though, but it still looked hurt and limping. The owner called her husband and they took it to the vet. Hope he turned out fine. I was a witness to this scene though, so I wish I could have gotten the license plate. Still, you're mind hardly pays attention to those things when it comes to these incidents. I don't even remember the make of the vehicle, just that it was tan.

I feel that I am a nuisance sometimes all the time. Maybe that's why I get avoided or ignored. It could just be my paranoia messing me up, but its been hard to tell lately. That's the only downfall in ldr's. I guess I have to deal with it; I don't really know what else to do. Oh well...

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..................NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! FUCKING HELL! WHY THEY DO THIS TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Got something to say man?



What makes you think that Dawny? I don't think you bother folks

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The dreams..... The Dreams..... THEY ARE FUCKING WITH ME! I cannot enjoy a good dream without something fucking it up.

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Ok...want to elaborate on what went wrong with the dream? Folks wake up in the middle of good dreams every day they don't go pulling a Meekins on the the internet for it.

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