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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
It's fucking Pokémon, why would you need to explain anything about it? :eh?:

C-A


It's always fun to theorize about Pokémon imo. The dumbest wildest theories are always better than the realistic boring theories.
Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Fairies are completely immune to Dragon-type attacks and effective against them. ('bout time they added another weakness for the overpowered Dragons; Ice Pokémon tend to suck with defense) They are harmed by Steel (which is great, since faeries ARE weak to steel or iron objects in most mythology) and Poison (...I don't quite understand that one, though). I'm glad they made Poison a bit more useful, since that and Bug type tended to be among the least used types. I mean, they're not bad, but you get Bugs so frequently and so early, you get tired of them or they have reached their max evolution very fast and can fall behind. Not to mention that most of their Bug-attacks were not all that good at first.

I never understood why the fairy type needed to be added. Just make the Steel type super effective to dragon and you would've fixed the type chart without a new addition.
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Except that wouldn't really fix anything; nobody would run Steel attacks just to beat Dragons. Ice already does 4x damage to a lot of Dragons (so you don't even need a STAB bonus), is available to a lot of Pokemon through Ice Beam (and Hidden Power if needed), and has extra utility against other annoying types like Ground and Flying. Even with Fairy in the mix, most people don't run Steel attacks unless they get STAB with it since Steel has poor coverage.

Fairy types are good because they completely shut down Outrage spam nonsense. Base 120 power attack with STAB that hits everything for neutral damage other than Steel, lol good luck switching into that
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Quote:
Except that wouldn't really fix anything; nobody would run Steel attacks just to beat Dragons. Ice already does 4x damage to a lot of Dragons (so you don't even need a STAB bonus), is available to a lot of Pokemon through Ice Beam (and Hidden Power if needed), and has extra utility against other annoying types like Ground and Flying.

Well this just sounds like Dragon types aren't as overpowered as previously thought.

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Base 120 power attack with STAB that hits everything for neutral damage other than Steel,
Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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I'm not sure what you mean, having only one type that resists your attacks and only two weaknesses (one being itself) is stupid good, especially if the Pokemon that have said typing have the stats to make good use of it (which a good number do)

Even with Fairy in the mix now Dragon is still a very good type


good good good good good
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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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Mister Gruel wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Fairies are completely immune to Dragon-type attacks and effective against them. ('bout time they added another weakness for the overpowered Dragons; Ice Pokémon tend to suck with defense) They are harmed by Steel (which is great, since faeries ARE weak to steel or iron objects in most mythology) and Poison (...I don't quite understand that one, though). I'm glad they made Poison a bit more useful, since that and Bug type tended to be among the least used types. I mean, they're not bad, but you get Bugs so frequently and so early, you get tired of them or they have reached their max evolution very fast and can fall behind. Not to mention that most of their Bug-attacks were not all that good at first.

I never understood why the fairy type needed to be added. Just make the Steel type super effective to dragon and you would've fixed the type chart without a new addition.


The game needed more pink!

C-A
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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean, having only one type that resists your attacks and only two weaknesses (one being itself) is stupid good, especially if the Pokemon that have said typing have the stats to make good use of it (which a good number do)

My point was that the original argument for the fairy type was that the dragon type was overpowered, then you just give me reasons as to why Ice is already a great check for Dragon (most dragons having the 4x weakness, easy access to Ice Beam, etc.).

And yeah, it's still a good type, but making the Steel type Super Effective against the Dragon type would've removed how overpowered it was, and we wouldn't have had to mess up the type chart doing it.
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But Dragon didn't need another weakness, it needed something else to resist its attacks. If your opponent's Life Orb Garchomp gets off a Swords Dance and starts spamming Outrage, it doesn't matter if you have Ice Beam or not; you're going to be OHKO'd before you get to attack. Even something like Ferrothorn, a defensive Steel type, can't switch into that.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 175-208 (49.7 - 59%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Fairies are the sole reason nobody uses Outrage anymore.
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Quote:
But Dragon didn't need another weakness, it needed something else to resist its attacks.

The Steel type says "Hi."

Quote:
If your opponent's Life Orb Garchomp gets off a Swords Dance and starts spamming Outrage, it doesn't matter if you have Ice Beam or not; you're going to be OHKO'd before you get to attack. Even something like Ferrothorn, a defensive Steel type, can't switch into that.

Of course, that's assuming that Garchomp can get off a Swords Dance and that the opposing Pokemon wasn't faster than it or had Ice Shard and that there was no pokemon holding a focus sash and that the steel type switching in didn't have any Ice moves. But if we can manipulate variables however we want, then anything is possible.

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 209-246 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Proof that the Bug type is overpowered.

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Fairies are the sole reason nobody uses Outrage anymore.

So you're saying that the type meant to keep another type in check completely destroyed one of the strategies associated with it? That's some great game design right there.
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Personally, I never really used Outrage. Mostly cause I don't like not having control.

C-A
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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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itt: one type (steel) resisting dragon means dragon is totes balanced

nevermind the fact that the hypothetical I presented was very likely to happen and the defender I mentioned is one of the best defensive pokemon in the game and it still gets 2HKO'd

or that even if it didn't pretty much every dragon carries fire blast/flamethrower or earthquake anyway

or that almost every steel type in the game is slow as shit other than like lucario and a handful of legendaries

or that the only things that carry ice shard that people actually use are mamoswine and maybe weavile

Mister Gruel wrote:
Quote:
Fairies are the sole reason nobody uses Outrage anymore.

So you're saying that the type meant to keep another type in check completely destroyed one of the strategies associated with it? That's some great game design right there.

If it kills a braindead, degenerate "strategy" like "hur dur, SD, Outrage, hope you have Mamoswine or something with a Focus Sash or you auto-lose", I'm 110% for it.
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you wrote:
nevermind the fact that the hypothetical I presented was very likely to happen and the defender I mentioned is one of the best defensive pokemon in the game and it still gets 2HKO'd


me wrote:
Of course, that's assuming that Garchomp can get off a Swords Dance


Quote:
or that even if it didn't pretty much every dragon carries fire blast/flamethrower or earthquake anyway

Dragons have a check against a threat against it. What's your point?

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or that almost every steel type in the game is slow as shit other than like lucario and a handful of legendaries

You picked a fast Dragon type. There's a reason that it's OU tier.

Quote:
or that the only things that carry ice shard that people actually use are mamoswine and maybe weavile

Except Cloyster, Mega-Abomasnow, Mega-Glalie and Froslass. Don't forget Bullet Punch Lucario, Machamp, Medicham and Metagross.

Quote:
If it kills a braindead, degenerate "strategy" like "hur dur, SD, Outrage, hope you have Mamoswine or something with a Focus Sash or you auto-lose", I'm 110% for it.

So any strategy that involves sweeping is "braindead and degenerate." k
Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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Okay.

Why the hell would Garchomp (or any other mon carrying Swords Dance) have a particularly hard time using it? You switch the Dragon into something that can't do shit to it. Your opponent either switches out (giving you a free opportunity to SD) or leaves the mon in to die and/or give you time to SD anyway. Or are you saying every single Pokemon on your team is designed to take out dragons?

I've been using Garchomp as an example but pretty much every commonly used Dragon is faster than almost every Steel type with the exception of, like, Dragonite, and Multiscale Weakness Policy Dragonite with Dragon Dance can produce the same results. So the Steel Pokemon is going to take at least one hit when it switches in, and as I said, even the most defensive Steel type is taking around 50% damage from a boosted Outrage.

Nobody uses Mega-Abomasnow or Mega-Glalie in serious battles. Cloyster has four-moveslot syndrome: it needs Shell Smash, Icicle Spear, and Rock Blast. That leaves one slot, which is usually Razor Shell since otherwise it has no Water STAB and Ice/Rock is poor coverage. Frosslass might, but Frosslass is almost exclusively a lead Spiker since that's all she's good at, so she's likely to be the first thing on your team to die.

Steel types are still ridiculously good, they don't need to be SE against Dragons on top of that, they're the best defensive type in the game even after 6th Gen nerfs.

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So any strategy that involves sweeping is "braindead and degenerate." k

http://dilbert.com/strip/2001-11-05

It's braindead and degenerate because it requires absolutely no thought or work. Any other team that has a sweeper has to clear out the sweeper's counters before it gets to sweep. Outrage spam doesn't need to do that because at the time of 5th Gen, only one type in the entire game resisted it, and even that type took heavy damage.

I'm really not sure why you think simply making Steel attacks SE against Dragons would have fixed anything; all it would have done was make the whole game Dragons vs. Steel. Adding Fairies barely changed things for most Pokemon anyway, it just weakened Dragons and gave something for Steel to beat on while making a bunch of Mons like Gardevoir and Mawile good again.
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Quote:
Why the hell would Garchomp (or any other mon carrying Swords Dance) have a particularly hard time using it?

You could lose a game of prediction and get hit with an unexpectedly powerful move, be forced to switch in Garchomp due to a lack of counters, burn, taunt, etc. If you manage to completely catch the opponent off-guard and switch in on a pokemon that can do absolutely nothing then congratulations, you played the game like you're supposed to.

Ah, and my bad, I was looking at an outdated speed chart. I can now see that Mega Lucario, Mega Metagross (who can wall Garchomp fairly well), Weavile, Cryogonal, Froslass and Durant are all faster than Garchomp.

Quote:
I've been using Garchomp as an example but pretty much every commonly used Dragon is faster than almost every Steel type

The only other Dragon types that can do Swords Dance/Outrage are Mega Charizard X, Mega Sceptile, Dragonite and Haxorus. Out of those only Haxorus can really do the same thing Garchomp can, as the others are either too slow or have other weaknesses to deal with.

Quote:
Multiscale Weakness Policy Dragonite with Dragon Dance can produce the same results.

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn: 108-127 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Quote:
So the Steel Pokemon is going to take at least one hit when it switches in, and as I said, even the most defensive Steel type is taking around 50% damage from a boosted Outrage.

Like I said, not too many Swords Dance/Outrage users. You could try Dragon Dance, but +1 just doesn't get the job done as well, letting some steel types wall it.

Quote:
Nobody uses Mega-Abomasnow or Mega-Glalie in serious battles. Cloyster has four-moveslot syndrome: it needs Shell Smash, Icicle Spear, and Rock Blast. That leaves one slot, which is usually Razor Shell since otherwise it has no Water STAB and Ice/Rock is poor coverage. Frosslass might, but Frosslass is almost exclusively a lead Spiker since that's all she's good at, so she's likely to be the first thing on your team to die.

Heaven forbid we try using a Pokemon in different ways.

Quote:
Steel types are still ridiculously good, they don't need to be SE against Dragons on top of that, they're the best defensive type in the game even after 6th Gen nerfs.

But being SE against Fairies is just fine.

Quote:
It's braindead and degenerate because it requires absolutely no thought or work. Any other team that has a sweeper has to clear out the sweeper's counters before it gets to sweep. Outrage spam doesn't need to do that because at the time of 5th Gen, only one type in the entire game resisted it, and even that type took heavy damage.

Except you have to clear out Pokemon that are faster than it and send it out at a time where a Pokemon with absolutely no counters against sweepers or physical attackers and, unless you want to deal with confusion hax, take out enough Pokemon beforehand so that you can win before Outrage ends. So I suppose that makes it a bad strategy in a different way.

Quote:
all it would have done was make the whole game Dragons vs. Steel. Adding Fairies barely changed things for most Pokemon anyway, it just weakened Dragons and gave something for Steel to beat on

Again, making Dragon weak to Steel is awful but making Fairies weak to Steel is great? I don't follow this logic.
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You know what, I give up on this argument, it's a moot point anyway

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble understanding that an attack type that includes a 120 base power nuke with potentially zero drawbacks having a resistance and an immunity is more balanced than having only the one resistance
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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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Serebii wrote:
A new mode called Hyper Training is announced. With Hyper Training, Pokémon that have grown to Lv. 100 will be able to increase their individual strengths (IVs), which has never been possible before.

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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title
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Finally. Goodbye breeding (except for maybe egg moves and shinies).
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We can now do something in Pokemon that could have never been done before... take off our hats.
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Oh I'll still breed, breeding for a 5IV mon is super easy now

What this means for me is I don't need to SR 12 billion times to get a legendary with the right nature and IVs; pretty much all I need is the right nature
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So this trailer was released today and.... yeah, quite a few new things there.


New Alola Forms of old Pokémon:

- A grass/dragon version of Exeggutor that looks like a skinny palm tree.

- Ice and ice/fairy versions of Vulpix and Ninetales respectively.

- Ice/steel versions of Sandshrew and Sandslash.


Brand new Pokémon:

- Oricorio, a bird with different typings and designs depending on where you catch it. In addition to being part flying-type it can be fire, electric, psychic or ghost. Its ability is Dancer, where it copies and performs any powerup moves the opponent does onto itself.

- Minior, a rock/flying meteor. It has the ability Shields Down, when it takes damage its outer shell falls off revealing the inner core.

- Yungoos is revealed to evolve into Gumshoos, essentially the Donald Trump Pokémon.

- Fomantis and its evolution Lurantis, grass-type praying mantis Pokémon. They have a new move called Solar Blade, that creates a giant energy sword to cut things with.

- Mudbray, which evolves into the previously-announced Mudsdale.


You can ride Pokémon in various locations, like over rough terrain, through rapid rivers and flying over high locations.


One of the big departures from previous games appears to be the lack of gyms; instead there's the Island Challenge. Each island has a trial hosted by a unique trainer that has you taking on special missions that culminate with a battle with that island's Totem Pokémon, a special version of a wild Pokémon that can use unique moves and even call on other wild Pokémon to join and assist it in battle. After completing the trial on each island, you can battle that island's Kahuna. Defeating all the Kahunas earns you the title of Island Challenge Champion.


Finally there are Z-Moves, special attacks that can only be used once in a battle that pack a huge punch. There's one Z-Move for each of the 18 types, and it looks like every Pokémon can learn the Z-Move pertaining to its type.
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Huh, so i guess the leak was true after all.

Spoiler: Sun/Moon
So this means that Gary, Cynthia, N and Lance are making cameo appearances?

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As long as it was like the Gym leaders in BW2, where they are in the location you are in but not mandatory to proceed.

And that Z-Move preparation thing looks... kinda stupid. I'm gonna put in what everyone's probably thinking when they see it.

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C-A
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So what Pokemon do you guys want to get alola forms?

Personally i'm hoping we get alola forms for Gardevoir and Gallade that mix they're typings. It would be so cool to have Gardevoir be Psychic/Fighting and Gallade Psychic/Fairy.

And a Shellos form because it always bugged me that his pokedex entry in Sinnoh was never followed up on.
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if Bellossom doesn't get a new alola or mega form I will be very very disappointed
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Z-moves are the worst thing ever
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Wait, there's no Pokémon League?

……………Bullshit.
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Yash K. Productions wrote:
Wait, there's no Pokémon League?

……………Bullshit.


It sounds more like there is a Pokémon League, except it's not called that. Instead of travelling from Gym to Gym, you go from island to island and defeat the 'island leader'. And then you can challenge the Kahuna of the island. Honestly, I'm not sure what to think of it... though I highly doubt it'll be the way I want it to be: I can go whatever order I want.

Also, BORING! You have the Fire type, the Water type, the Grass type and... Electric. We've had electric 'bosses' SO MANY TIMES NOW! Could we PLEASE have something not reused half a dozen times already? Why NOT a Ground type? Come on, it was so obvious when I saw the trailer showing "Grass type" and then "Water type" that it would be '4 Elements'.

Also, can they please show a trailer with the damn trainer customization already? The default of what I've seen up to now looks pretty boring-stupid. I want to be able to change that.

C-A
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The new, evil team is called Skull.
...WHY do we need an evil team!? Just lemme collect whatever the shit your equivalent of badges is and leave me alone with your "Ooooh, team X wants the Y of the Pokémon Z because Omega Stupid Reason Alpha". It never worked for me! They were NEVER that intimidating or threatening in their actions to begin with!

Plumery? As in, Plumeria? Yeah, cause that's what a (not-white) flower makes me think of! SKULLS and death.
Oh good God, and the boss looks like the animesque version of Dr Emmet Brown if he went punk-style and sniffed glue...

C-A
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I'm hoping Skull is just a bunch of street thugs.
Spoiler: Marked in to be Safe & Theory
During the trailer, it is implied Guzma and Kukui are rejected team leader. Maybe Guzma formed Skull in anger?https://youtu.be/Py2LxgWBaRQ?t=112


And if they have to force a legend into the story, I hope it is the result of someone just messing up. No intentions.
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I'll be honest, I'm more excited for the Alola forms of existing Pokemon than the new ones. Ice-Fairy Ninetales? Yes please. Sandslash that isn't even Ground? Sure.
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Sniper and Rifle wrote:
And if they have to force a legend into the story, I hope it is the result of someone just messing up. No intentions.


I'd dig that. Though people might say that's a Mewtwo rip-off. Hey, one reason why I'm going for Moon is cause we already have tiger-lion-esque legendaries. We haven't had a bat one yet, far as I know. It's a nice change. And can we PLEASE see trainer customization? Even if it's a little to just say Yes, it is in the game.

Quote:
I'll be honest, I'm more excited for the Alola forms of existing Pokemon than the new ones. Ice-Fairy Ninetales? Yes please. Sandslash that isn't even Ground? Sure.


And then they give us the disappointment that is Alola Raichu. They didn't even alter the main type, they just turned it into a hybrid with Psychic. Why not make Alola Raichu Psychic/Fairy? Good against Poison, but also weak to it. Great!

C-A
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Because we already have Gardevoir, at least Electric/Psychic is a pretty unique typing

Also if TPC took the electric typing away from anything related to Pikachu, fans would Rai-ot
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CatMuto wrote:
Mister Gruel wrote:
i mean, he probably wont but i think his chances of winning moved from 0% to 1%


I'm pretty sure that, since it's Ash, he will still fuck it up somehow. Or they will have contrived reasons for why he cannot participate.

C-A

one day later
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Mister Gruel wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Mister Gruel wrote:
i mean, he probably wont but i think his chances of winning moved from 0% to 1%


I'm pretty sure that, since it's Ash, he will still fuck it up somehow. Or they will have contrived reasons for why he cannot participate.

C-A

one day later

Dammit, Sakurai, I thought you were done nerfing Greninja.
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I haven't followed the anime for years but because of all the raging I looked into it and lololol

So Greninja can tank a STAB Frenzy Plant but not a Blast Burn

Also this Charizard shrugs off Thunderbolts and a Z-move water attack like they're nothing

Okay
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:)

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Hoping for some gen 2-6 love in this gen too.
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Event Victini is out for NA and Europe

Doesn't have V-Create like the Japanese scrap campaign one did

Thanks, based Nintendo
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:06 am

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So new trailer today. Has some... interesting new Pokémon, to say the least.


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Type: Null (note, that's actually his name), a normal-type. It's apparently a hodgepodge of different Pokémon put together to make a new creature that can adapt to it's environment.


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Jangmo-o, a dragon-type. It uses the scale on its head for offense and defense.


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The Alolan form of Raticate, dark/normal.


This region has special Pokémon known as Ultra Beasts. The first was revealed, UB-01:

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Also introduced was the Aether Foundation, an organization that seeks to protect weak and injured Pokémon from ever being hurt again, as well as Gladion, an enforcer from Team Skull who owns Type: Null and wants to fight strong opponents.


Sun and Moon are each set twelve hours off from each other, so when it's day time in Sun, it's night time in Moon and vice-versa. Certain scenes will also play out differently in each game, such as what Totem Pokémon you'll fight in each trial and the like.


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You can also take Pictures with your Pokédex's Finder mode, get them rated and even share them online... Pokémon Snap 2, anyone?
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Re: Pokemon 7th Generation: Sun and MoonTopic%20Title

Gender: None specified

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:55 pm

Posts: 517

I really like the look of this region so far especially the villains, I love Team Skull because they actually look itimidating unlike Team Flare who's only itimidating feature is they're dumbness.

Also am I the only one who thinks Team Skull leader Guzma looks alot like Doctor Two Brains from WordGirl. (Boy I used to watch that show a ton when I was younger.)
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