It varies, I guess. I know that Sailor Moon came into being because Toei wanted to make an anime out of Naoko's idea of a sailor-suited female hero, but told her to expand it to a group of five - to increase toy sells. So she did and began Sailor Moon and the manga, as well as the anime, were so popular that it was extended to five seasons instead of just the original first season and Dark Kingdom/4-5 Volumes of the manga originally planned.



This of course makes me ask: which Genre are you talking about? In terms of Shoujo stuff, I can absolutely agree that childhood friend appears a lot - sometimes as the Other Guy, who will never end up with the heroine because he's too nice and we know that the heroine must always go for that Giant Jerk that no sane person would actually date after putting up with the shit he puts her through. But some genres may have childhood friends, but sometimes those are not romantic interests... not that often, but it can happen.



Well I know that Saior Mercury was originally planned to be an AI/Robot with an IQ of 300, but that idea was eventually scrapped and she was made simply intelligent and/or good at studying. The IQ of 300 was not made official, but only mentioned as a rumor in the manga. Also, not just Japanese media doing that. Min Ju Wen from chinese light novel Half Prince is said to have an IQ of 200 - which is sometimes hard to remember, considering the goofy way he acts at times.

C-A

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Last edited by CatMuto on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Consider the same of the western world and your everyday cartoons/comic books. Some are into it, and some actively dislike them. Just a matter of preference. So far, the only manga I actually keep up with is One Piece, and the only anime I follow is One Piece and Yugioh (I've checked out a few of the old series episodes for nostalgia). I don't consider myself an avid manga/anime lover, but what I do know is that it's about as revolutionary as cartoons. Perhaps even moreso nowadays since from my perspective manga/anime creators tend to be a bit more creative than western cartoon creators and pretty much every cartoon that I am aware of sucks, and the ones I used to love that still air, now suck too, sadly



All I'll say is narrow down your preferred genre. You can't just jump into an entire medium and expect to be thrilled by whatever it spits back out at you.



Perhaps. Some may have their main plotline all lined out. One Piece's Oda has gone on record saying he knows how the series will end and has planned the last arc (this was a few years ago, mind you). Some just wanna milk the series. There's no real way of telling, but just by looking at a series, you could probably tell.



This is true, but stereotypes exist in all forms of media. One look at TVTropes gives you so many different stereotypes in television and videogames, even the ones made in the western world. Tough black dude? The dumb blonde? It's no different, really. Just a lot more noticeable since you're watching something not from your culture.



I suppose it's one of the differences in culture. One thing I've noticed is that Japan loves to make some weird stuff when they make films, videogames, etc. They're a lot more open-minded and pretty much anything goes. I've not done it very often, but any time I've tried to concoct a story of my own, it's been very grounded in reality and not too bizarre. One thing I suppose it is, is because you'd have to use your imagination more for things like that. You can imagine the sun with ease, and can hazard a guess as to how hot it is. You've most likely heard of a genius, or seen one in the media. But one of that calibre strengthens how smart they are tenfold. They're not just smart, they're incredibly smart. That could lead to some interestings developments.

Just my ideas

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Last edited by Professor Yoshi on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ok the 10.000 time hotter than the sun is an obvious exaggeration, but an IQ over 200 should be within the realms of possibility. At least I thought around 100 was normal and 150 was super genius, so maybe like 5 people in the whole world could get over 200? anyway moving on...


So about that little list you made about why anime is a shit. Although I find myself agreeing with a lot of your statements I cannot agree with the overall statement you are making. Yeah anime has crazy stereotypes in characters and in plot development, but each to his own right? Like your point that characters are virtually the strongest in the universe until the next big bad guy comes around. Probably a direct shout out to Dragonball Z, and I agree it's ridiculous, but overall I still enjoyed it and other people can (and have) enjoy it as well even though this flaw exist.
On the other hand you should watch things you prefer and avoid thing you don't like. For instance I hate it when a protagonist is indecisive and gets smacked around because he's a dumb fuck or when common sense is just thrown out the window. This is why you won't find me watching a 'harem' anime, since 95% of that shit is like that.

There probably are some anime's which are right for you DoMaya, or not, if you don't like anime altogether that's fine to. Just don't start shitting on things that you already know of you're not gonna like and let people watch what they prefer.

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I'm sorry you felt this way about the first series. It was one of the most brillant show I've ever watched, very, very, smartly written, and I don't throw that around lightly.

Sometime I wonder if we are comparing anime to the other right kind of media. Of course I think you can't compare anime to TV shows, but you can compare it to comics, to what I will ask, Is it only anime that are shit or western comics too or just the entertainment industry in general? I wonder also if the best show don't reach the western side, the same way ours don't reach the eastern side.

I don't read enough western comic to compare. But I must say I don't get hook to the most recent anime. (Urgh. can't find that meme about bleach character not dying but going to other anime.)

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I do like some anime

I like FMA, BIG O, Death Note, Bo Bo Bo, Hajime No Ippo, DB, DBZ, DBZ GT, Zatch Bell....

Hell I even read all of Azumanga Daioh.

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Caption:DoMaya's way of life

It's not that i need to have fun....
It's that everyone else must be miserable.

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Same Diff Home skillet :P

Really? May I ask why? Most characters were shallow, useless and had basically one quirk. The biggest problem with this is that the main characters are two walking sleeping pills and lack any sort of chemistry whatsoever, even though people like to point out how close they are. The setting and story could've worked, absolutely, but nothing is ever really done. In the filler series, they walk around trying to find a philosopher's stone for more than half of the series, and they never address why Edward would need to get his body back as much as Alphonse when he's only missing an arm and a leg, and there are people who get by with less limbs than that.

Brotherhood, on the other hand, had a bit more potential and at least involved several exciting moments and plot points, but they're all over very quickly, or dropped entirely.

What the series lack the most is engaging characters, and while the anti-heroes like Scar have more personality than basically every other character combined, he can't compensate for the awful, AWFUL villains.

Like I said, I didn't hate it, but I felt nothing when watching it. There's no real sense of urgency, and you don't form a bond with the characters or the plot. Instead of expanding on the world and the people in it, you're forced to sit through dialogue after dialogue of plot discussion, and very rarely anything outside of it, which once again makes the characters feel stale and unrelatable. I must say though, that the author sure knows how to write sexual tension without shoving it in our faces. I mean holy crap, Hawkeye and Mustang look like they could just tear off their clothes at any moment they're together.

Oh, Alex Louis Armstrong is, of course, excluded from this rant due to the sheer awesomeness of his muscles and moustache.

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Ah, so it's like the point of the Blues music genre.
"The blues isn't there to make yourself feel better... it's there to make other people feel like crap!"

C-A

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"/.../ and make a few bucks while you're at it."

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I imagine because anime is cartoons of a variety of genres with overarching stories. Most American cartoons tend to be episodic and aimed at a younger audience; if there was a wider variety of American cartoons (like there are for anime), I'm not sure anime would be so popular.


Well, those are all shonen. (Aimed at younger boys.) To be honest, I don't like shonen that much either usually. (One Piece is good, tho, imo. But it's very long, and you need to get quite far in for stuff to start paying off.) You might want to check out some stuff aimed at older audiences. Liar Game is one of my favorite manga ever.


I imagine because it's easy. Rather than going, "Okay, in order for this to happen, it needs to be very hot. Let's scientifically investigate the temperature necessary to produce the effect that we desire. ... Okay, we have the temperature. Now let's look up the temperature of the sun and compute the ratio of the temperature we need to that of the sun," it's much quicker and easier to go "slap a number on it."

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Oddly even though shonen is aimed towards younger boys I feel that they are held to a higher stand in my opinion due to the quantity of violence, language and Ecchi scenes that are seen either in the anime or mostly in Manga (I usually always prefer Manga because you get more of story that anime has to cut due to time slot issues). Sure One Piece is long but the story is very breath taking and it just takes the time and effort to sit down at truly enjoy its beautiful unless your the type of person who is lazy and can't handle taking the time to enjoy the anime/manga and would rather go for something short and to the point. If you want a better manga aimed for adults I suggest Gantz or Gintama

My philosophy = if by Arlong Park arc you're still not feeling One Piece, it's not for you. Love the series, but it starts super slow and doesn't really have much of a plot for most of the East Blue Saga than "Gather crewmates, enter the grand line!".

Agree wholeheartedly that the majority of anime having overarching stories rather than episodic/standalone stories make them a lot more interesting.

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I actually basically started One Piece at (right before) the Drum Island Arc. Stopped in the middle of the Impel Down arc. My favorite arcs were the Alabasta and Water Seven/Impel Down Arcs.

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The first anime is definitely plot driven, and doesn't hesitate to shelf some characters for a long time or to keep them in a limited role if they serve no purpose at a specific moment : it's not an anime that aims at shoving characters with over the top personalities down your throat as often as possible until you bond with them. I'm a sucker for plot driven shows, if only because they're so damn rare, so it may be so that what I loved about the show was exactly what you hated

Of course the characters aren't at the center of the stage. And most of them aren't badass, coz that's not the point. The show's intelligence comes partly from the fact that it doesn't try to please you. Once again, it doesn't try to emotionnaly manipulate you so that you'll love such or such stereotypical character with a ridiculous level of badassery, or hate some cannon fodder villain. I hated the villains in the second anime as most of them weren't fleshed out a bit and were completely disposable. But the first anime ? I just loved what it did with them.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you.



While I understand your desire for a story that focuses more on the plot than the characters, I feel like one element doesn't necessarily cancel out the other. The biggest problems I had with Fullmetal Alchemist is that you don't feel connected to anything going on, which lessens the excitement whenever a fight, or something along those lines, occurs. I realize I'm speaking very vaguely, but that's because I can't for the life of me recall much of the series even though I recently watched it all; there was simply nothing there to make me get into the story. The occasional joke wasn't that fun, the characters didn't say much of interest, the plot wasn't anything new and the villains were some of the worst I've ever seen in any form of media. The saddest part about all of this is that the world itself had great potential. Oh well, I should be thankful it didn't pull a Naruto on me.

Once again, ALEX LOUIS ARMSTRONG is exempt from my rants.

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I liked the Arlong Arc. Alabasta was fun... and I kinda lost interest in One Piece after the... um... Eneru Arc? Skypia?

C-A

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Now hold it right there, because now you're just throwing obvious contradictions in your statements. let us recap:
1. If your anime needs to make a face to tell you it's time to laugh, your anime a shit.
2. If your slice of life anime has people with superpowers, your anime a shit - FMA
3. If your anime needs to have someone explain a new power every episode, your anime a shit - DBZ (learning kao-ken and spirit bomb conveniently off screen), FMA can also invent powers, since everything can be reconstructed through alchemy
4. If the hero of your anime is super strong but is powerless to the new villain of the week your anime a shit. - DBZ + GT x 100, Hajime no Ippo also is guilty of this one imho.
5a. If your anime has unnecessary sexual tension, your anime a shit
5b. If your anime has a minority for the sake of having a minority, your anime a shit. - DBZ had one black guy who was the reïncarnation of buu I believe.
5c. If your anime has fanservice in the majority of episodes, your anime a shit.
6. If the meekest character is secretly the strongest one in the group with no proper explanation for why that is, your anime a shit. - DBZ : gohan
7. If your anime NEEDS to have a fight scene in every episode to be interesting, your anime a shit. - DBZ and Bo Bo Bo
8. If the student never truly surpasses the the teacher, your anime a shit.
9. If a character "dies" and comes back due to some arbitrary reason, your anime a shit
10. If any given character can be considered "Evil" for no reason other than the sake of being evil, your anime a shit. *sigh* FMA, DBZ and Bo Bo Bo has these guys to.

Note that I never watched big o or zatch bell, but the anime you like mostly fall into one of these categories one way or another.
gotta fight jantran with more jantran.

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Yeah, Skypia Arc was drawn-out, boring, and stupid. After Skypia Arc is the Davy Back Fight Arc, which is also really bad, albeit not nearly as long.

But after that, the Water Seven Arc begins, which is my favorite in all of One Piece <3 (And then the stuff after Water Seven/Enies Lobby isn't as bad as Skypia or Davy Back Fight, but not as good as Alabasta or Water Seven, either.)

@Sjibbey: You realize Bobobo is a comedy, right...? It didn't 'need' a fight every episode, it was just generally how the (token) plot advanced. And villains also don't need flesh-out motives or anything in comedies :P

I haven't seen Big O, but for Zatch Bell, if it violates any, it could be 3 (but Zatch is always fighting different enemies, who each have their own unique powers, so it's sort of unavoidable), and possibly 10... I never actually got far enough to find out if the motivations of Zofis/evil!zatch/etc were anything more than evulz.

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Only thing good about Skypiea is the Jaya arc that is technically part of the Saga. And because Jaya introduces super important characters and has epic foreshadowing for shit later on. Didn't like Sky Island much, once they got there.

Water 7/Enies Lobby is Godlike, though. I don't think anyone questions this fact.

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I have to add that the Triller Bark arc was awesome as well plus don't forget Sabaody Archipelago,Impiel Down arc, the marineford arc and every other arc after that.

Big O, huh?

It's been a while, but I remember there being a lot of #5a.

Roger was the biggest robosexual.

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Speaking of robosexuals...

If your anime involves robots combining to form bigger and awesomer robots, your anime is too good.

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Roger never really made any sorts of move on most of the androids. His love interest was mostly Angel.

Uh-huh.

And where did that relationship go?

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Well Roger denied to having feelings for Dorothy when angel mentioned it plus yes Roger does care for Dorothy as mentioned by Alan Gabriel but it was never proven that it was that sort of sexual relationship.

I don't care much for death note.

Yeah... Death Note is clever, but it's not nearly as deep as it wants you to think it is.

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I said nothing about proving that Roger and Dorothy had a sexual relationship. Actual sex isn't needed for sexual tension.

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"robosexual." were your words exactly. I never said sex was needed to have sexual tension. Just because i said roger never made any advances doesn't mean I was talking about sex. What I meant is that you don't see him do things like flirt or any sexual innuendos.

2. If your slice of life anime has people with superpowers, your anime a shit - FMA
>Implying two brothers wandering the country looking for the means to get their bodies back is a "slice of life"
3. If your anime needs to have someone explain a new power every episode, your anime a shit - DBZ (learning kao-ken and spirit bomb conveniently off screen),
He learned both of these techniques from King Kai, and uses them multiple times
FMA can also invent powers, since everything can be reconstructed through alchemy
The only thing that inhibits a person's alchemical ability is practice and imagination, anything one alchemist can do so can the others.
When I made this rule, it was more aimed at animes that have people with a thousand powers who never uses the same one twice.


4. If the hero of your anime is super strong but is powerless to the new villain of the week your anime a shit. - DBZ + GT x 100,
Name me one villain in DBZ where this was the case,
Let's look at the main 4 bad guys from the DBZ series

Raditz + Vegeta + Nappa

Goku struggles to kill Raditz but still eventually beats him at the cost of his own life

After training long and hard, Goku easily defeats Nappa.

Vegeta on the other hand survived a Spirit bomb, and was left alive because Goku wanted to fight him again.


Frieza

One of the most powerful being in the universe, it took Goku going super saiyan to defeat him, but at no point did he "lose" to Freiza

Cell
A perfect creature, it combines the DNA and abilities of some of the most powerful people ever to exist.
He challenged the people of Earth to a tournament, and lost it to an eleven year old kid

Buu

Probably the closest here to breaking the rule, but he was introduced for the series finale so he wasn't the "Villain of the week" he was THE Villain.


Hajime no Ippo also is guilty of this one imho.
Ippo lost one fight, and he wasn't "powerless" during ANY of his fights.

5b. If your anime has a minority for the sake of having a minority, your anime a shit. - DBZ had one black guy who was the reïncarnation of buu I believe.

You're referring to Uub, and he doesn't even come close to fulfilling the role of token black

6. If the meekest character is secretly the strongest one in the group with no proper explanation for why that is, your anime a shit. - DBZ : gohan

Gohan is half human half saiyan, please note that both Trunks and Goten were able to go SSJ1 much earlier than Goku and Vegeta were. This trait is shown in hybrids, not meek characters.


7. If your anime NEEDS to have a fight scene in every episode to be interesting, your anime a shit. -
DBZ. Plenty of the "filler" episodes were interesting.

Bo Bo Bo. It's a parody of action animes, and again the filler episodes were interesting.

10. If any given character can be considered "Evil" for no reason other than the sake of being evil, your anime a shit. *sigh* FMA, DBZ and Bo Bo Bo has these guys to.

FMA. If you're referring to any of the seven sins it's been shown that they all had perfectly understandable reasons for what they did,
If you're referring to Father, he was afraid of being powerless, like he was when he was stuck in the flask.
So much so he sought to be the most powerful being in existence, so nothing could ever bind him again

DBZ All of the Villains had reasons for their actions


Raditz was employed by Freiza to wipe out all life on an unnamed planet, unable to do so by himself he seeks Goku's aid.
Upon seeing his own brother isn't acting like a true saiyan, he does all he can to try and get goku to fight.

From Raditz's perspective: "Saiyans have been given jobs, I need help with mine so I'll ask my brother.
My brother has befrended the people he was ordered to kill? There are only 4 Saiyans left! Who knows what Freiza will do to him!"

Vegeta received a message saying that one of the last 4 saiyans in existence was killed, and that a certain planet had balls that gave wishes.
After years of being mistreated by Freiza, Vegeta would do anything to get back at him.


Freiza
Runs the Planet Trade Organization, He's a warlord and a businessman, and business is good.
He obliterated the Saiyans because he feared the legendary Super Saiyan

Cell

Apart from later on wanting to destroy everything not "perfect" Cell only sought to become stronger.
He displays characteristics of all the people who's DNA he uses.


Buu

Buu is a child, a super powerful being with no concept of right or wrong. To be "evil" is to do bad things even though you KNEW they were wrong.
He even had the patience to fight Gotenks, he wasn't in it to kill people, he was just a kid who wanted to have fun


Bo Bo Bo. It's a parody, it's not supposed to make sense

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That wasn't what Sjibbey was talking about

Can someone please help with the clarification of why an anime is shit if the student doesn't surpass the teacher?

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Do you even English?
I have no idea what you're trying to say, you can't respond to 3 paragraphs with 7 words and a gif

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And you don't seem to know how to read. So we all have our flaws

No

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Guys guys...let's not fight over something like this, it's not worth getting our undies in a twist over.

But...DoMaya I am curious of what you meant by that's not what the poster meant...could you please clarify that for me?

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