I thought the ending was OK, but there were a few things...

First off, I kind of spoiled it for myself. I knew that in Apollo Justice Phoenix had been disbarred so I was expecting something to happen at the end of T&T that would make that happen. I was thinking something really crazy like Pearl was the real murderer (channeling someone) and Phoenix refuses to indict her and quits on the spot, etc. So when the game ended and he hadn't lost his badge, it wasn't what I was expecting.

Also, maybe someone can set me straight on this. Phoenix breaks Pearl's psychelock and she says she was sleeping in the garden when the murder took place. LATER, when you find out that the murder took place in the garden after all, where was Pearl? She wouldn't have slept through that.

Plus, being a huge / fangirl, I HATED how they tried to hook him up with Iris at the end. Wha? It was Iris and not Dahlia the whole time? I thought that Iris never left the village, and now she's spending six months hanging out with her sister and pretending to date Phoenix Wright? Even if he were straight, he'd never date a girl who would lie on the witness stand for such a dumb reason. I hate Iris.

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@Herr Blonde: There are quite a few holes in your theroy. The biggest is assuming that not everyone got the death penalty. With the exception of Vasquez, and MAYBE Sahwit, everyone's pretty much comitted first degree murder, Godot and Wellington could maybe get off, but others like Morgan will surely die. I mean, von Karma senior died, as well as Dahlia. It's also implied that Morgan either was dying, died during, or was dead by the time of 3-5 since she was talking about being "just in time", also, the fact that she knew it had happened is more evidence pointing towards her death.

Also, in Apollo justice:



@ Lola: You seriously don't get it, do you? Iris did it for Dahlia. Also, Iris didn't want to hurt him again, so she kept it a secret. She is NOT dumb, she only loves her sister a little too much.

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Ah but you see Phoenix_Apollo it's just as foolhardy to assume that everyone gets the death penalty. You yourself said you reckon Godot and Wellington could possibly get away with it. Isn't that all we need? Godot to get away with it.

All I wanted to do was prove the possibility that Godot might not be killed for it. After all he was defending someone. Most of the others can just hang for it...though I'd like Tigre to live.

Furthermore like Klavier, Godot could pull a few strings in the law to help lighten the load on his sentence.

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Yes, but most of the criminals, like White and von Karma comitted first degree murders, and it's stated that he died as well as Dahlia.

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Yeah but the point is that Godot may not have been given the death sentence right? Even if some of the others did.

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Just because he committed first degree murder doesn't mean that he got the death sentence. It's not stated that Manfred was actually given the death sentence. He could have died from old age. Don't jump to conclusions sir lawyer

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I don't think that Iris is dumb, I think that her reasons for lying were dumb. Her affection for his sister is woefully misplaced and she showed very poor judgement in trying to help her in the way that she did.

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It was good. But I have a habit of looking into every spoiler box and so I knew that Godot was the killer. But it didn't really matter as the killing wasn't even the main thing. I was really suprised of all the twists. I may as well suck, but it was really hard. I found myself in gamefaqs several times. I got to replay the whole game again. But yeah, the plot was really good.

It never actually occured to me that Godot was the killer, I spotted the note and thought "Oh God it's Pearl" at which point it really bummed me out but it made it a whole lot shocking when I did discover who the killer was.

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It IS sort of funny that they didn't even have us TALK to the real killer for the first half of the case.

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It really left me hanging especially the rather non-existing transition from T&T to AJ. It was alright I guess, but did anyone remember how at the end of JFA Franziska (or Edgeworth?) was supposed to give that Shelly de Killer card to Phoenix? And I could have missed that happening but I don't recall it did.

I was mad that and didn't have a say at the end. It made me sad too.

I thought the ending (and the entire game, for that matter) was brilliant, and TaT is by far the best in the series so far. While the mega-objection was awesome, Godot's tears of blood were sad, and seeing Dahlia put in her place was satisfing as hell, my favorite part was with the Judge explaining his philliosphy for the cases he tries. It was good to see some actual character development for a character that usually is just comic relief, which is why I liked it a lot. I mean really, we obviously expected it from Phoenix, Maya, etc.

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Just like any Ace Attorney game, the ending never failed to squeeze out a droplet of tear outta me.

The moment where Iris told Phoenix everything and dropped the 'you were really what I thought you were' statement or something like that, followed by the courtroom suite music, was the best part for me. Everything, from the music, Iris' reaction and Phoenix's blank stare. It was everything. There's also that Godot moment where he cried for the last time and said that it's all over and everything. That was uber remarkable.

Although when they concluded it with GS4, I was kinda disappointed on their meager effort to connect it somehow to GS3. I mean, at least mention another character or two from the previous games aside from hinting Mia and making the game more of a standalone than a sequel.

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I liked most of it, but a few parts disappointed me.

- Misty Fey finally returns only to get killed. It kinda ruined one of my most awaited moments in the series. (Maya reuniting with her mother.)
- Franziska didn't address the "final clue" that she took at the end of JFA.
- No Lotta Hart is GS3 at all. She's one of my favorites, so I hated she wasn't there, not even for a cameo.

I really enjoyed the ending and thought it tied up pretty much all of the loose ends for Phoenix Wright. I didn't think that there were really that many things left to discuss unlike other people. Maya is now the Master of the Kurain Channeling technique, Edgeworth has slowly started to recover from his ordeal (and is apparently still rich as Hell), Franzie is now Phoenix's friend after a fashion, Von Kharma is dead, and Phoenix may or may not have a love interest (though it isn't Maya).

I don't think that the legal system as depicted in T&T is all that different from our own either, minus the insane penalty system and the presence of Bunny Ears Lawyers (I actually was stunned when in PW2, they introduced the penalty system as a genuine part of the legal system when I assumed it was a game mechanic). Dahlia Hawthorne was on Death Row for 6 years before she was put to death. That's pretty equivalent to what we have in the real world.

Von Kharma is certainly dead and Diego by the end but it's probably pretty clearly not due to execution. Not unless, for whatever reason, they didn't choose to appeal the verdict.

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It still surprises me that anyone thinks that they were gonna address the card again....ever. XD
Capcom's track record for dealing with such things is spotty, at best, and this is likely something that was just completely forgotten about. :P

I wouldn't let something like that spoil enjoyment for what is, essentially, a classic DS Game though!

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T&T was the best of the games, thus it had the best ending.
and didn't talk at the end, yet did.

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wooiler=][/spoiler] recall this line foem miss ice queen will you
"i not read y to go so this she'll be in ths arc
wtf
i 'm bakc :
not again
leave
oh who gonn make mae the ghost buster
yes actly nt
hi
pfft
go
... oh crap

Hi.. >.> I'm new. <.<

Ahem, now that that's out of the way -- well, just re-played GS3 again the other day and stumbled onto this site looking for soundtrack stuff.

Now, as for the ending... well, it was really my favorite, period.. although GS4's ending was alright too..



Let's go through the case chronologically, hm? Good.

Day 1, the lead-up:

I remember thinking, "What??" upon seeing Iris' face in the article, but at the same time, I kinda knew deep down something was up, but of course I couldn't think of what.

That being said, when Iris had said she was raised in the temple, I thought it well... BS..
The Dusky Bridge sign did turn some lights on for me, however, which was pretty cool.

The Murder:
The victim hardly surprised me, someone I'd never met before who was famous, or at least important to more than just our little cast of characters here. The bridge on fire was -definitely- sweet, ... Butz' appearance was less than wanted. (He drives me nuts.) Also the.... fanaticism he shows trying to go after Maya is touching, and cracks that touch exterior he tends to put on most of the time. Very cool ending to the opening.

Day 2, Edgeworth:

I like Edgeworth, ever since 1-4 (I honestly never finished 2-4... ) so I thought it was cool that he showed up to hold the reigns while Nick was injured/sick. Nothing really spectacular here besides a missing Maya and Pearl. Pearl missing, however, was indeed rather interesting, and one of those mysteries that stuck around for awhile.

Day 2, Demon... Defense Attorney Edgeworth?!:

Fantastic court battle. I felt it get personal between the two, rather than simply a battle of evidence as normal. Also the line Edgey quips regarding how it feels good to point out a contradiction made me chuckle. I thought the foolishly foolish mutterings of such a foolish fool like Franzy were annoying.... still. But otherwise I kinda like her. The real story here though did indeed come between Edgey and Franzy, which played out excellently, I think.

Day 3, Putting the Pieces Together:

I normally don't like investigation phases, but I really did like this one. So much seemed to be happening at once as you just felt overwhelmed by the scope of the murder and the other sub-plots that run through the entire case. Franzy didn't feel like such a burden as I feared, although the whipping gets annoying after a while. Godot's arrogance really shines through, and you do feel like you just want to stick it to him this time around. Iris fleeing from Edgey seemed a bit odd at first, especially since they were simply going to where she was found anyway.. shot my radar up, but didn't do much else. The discovery of Mystic Misty surprised me slightly, but after finding the letter, I sensed that to be the case before it was actually revealed. The mention of DL-6 brought me to Morgan, which was confirmed after Gumshoe gave up the letter. Then the bombshell of Dahlia and Iris' identities. That caught me off guard, not that they were sisters, but the ties to the Fey clan. Metal detector bit was a bit strange.. But I <3 Gumshoe, so deal with it, pal! Pearl's involvement made me worry for a bit, but it just seemed foggy to me, then.

Day 3, Dark Bitter Revenge:

I almost have no words for this trial. The first two testimonies threw me for a loop, as Maya was locked in the chamber for the training, per tradition, yet the murder happened before it? But wasn't Bikini there to start the training?? Ugh, my brain.. In any case.. after getting Larry back it started to turn, but no killer really made much sense besides Maya or Pearl, which worried me greatly. Dahlia getting Eternal Punishment... so excellent... Then... Godot... by this time you could -feel- the panic rushing through the courtroom, but Godot wasn't being as aggressive as he could have been, which really seemed to add pressure rather than take it away. Then the story... teared up a little, admittedly.. then he actually makes you prove it.. and finally -- the Cornered music. Not the usual one... no, the one where it's ALL OR NOTHING! I probably spent 10 minutes staring at EVERY single bit of evidence, second-guessing myself almost each and every time... I didn't really get how to present his mask at first.. idiot I was.. Still, the ending... I was sad.


Other thoughts:

Godot's ... fate. Well, I do believe he's passed on, but executed? No... his entrance spoke of him "coming back from Hell" to do battle with Wright. Well, the battle was over, and he admitted that Wright was a better man than he had thought, and accepted that Maya had a future with Nick protecting her.. I think.. he simply let himself pass on, what he came to do was done.

Dahlia == Evil?

Yes, but not as... bad as another character I will describe shortly.
She was all about herself, didn't care one bit about anyone else. No morals at all, she would do whatever it took to have things her way. She was, simply, spoiled. To that end, she committed the murders and crimes because she had to, mostly.. although the attack on Maya was for revenge reasons, which she admitted. Everything else, however, was to cover other crimes or problems up.. Evil, yes... but...




... >.> So yeah, hi.

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I was totally satisfied with the ending, and the entire case (and the entire game).
It was a prefect closure to the trilogy.
Godot's reminiscence, Mia's speech after the trial, and all those comments at the end (my faves were Pearl, Ron and Kudo)... what's the best word to describe? Glorious? Fantastic? You know what I mean.
Larry's drawing was great, and the very final picture (li'l Mia and baby Maya with the broken urn) was just awesome.
The only thing that lessened its impact is that I already knew about Apollo Justice, and how it messed up Phoenix's life so soon after 3-5.

Yeah, I know that Phoenix x Edgey fangirls don't like it, because it can be easily interpreted as Phoenix x Iris and Phoenix x Maya (I prefer the latter, but I can understand those who say it suggest Phoenix x Iris). Actually, it also made me happy that Phoenix x Maya became somewhat canon.

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I felt a little empty. It would've been nice for them to add something about what happened to chracters like Pearl and Maya. We all know that Phoenix continued until his final case with Zak, but what about Kurain? More importantly, what happened to Gumshoe, Egdeowrth, Franszika? A great ending but it could've told us what happened to the rest in more depth.

"in my world i can't see red...so these must be tears...a lawyer only cries when its all over..."

that broke my heart. (and this is a LAWYER game we're talking about! thats why i love it so much...)

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Well. The main story about Dhalia was great but I wonder what happened to Maya, Pearl, Edgeworth and Mia between GS3 and GS4:s Zak Gramaryes case. I actually wish that there would be another Phoenix Wright game filling those holes.
Another possibility would be just to make an Apollo Justice 2 where those gaps would be filled too with for example: Mayas, Pearls, Edgeworths and maybe even Iris´s comeback.

Gumshoe is sad when everyone forgets him.

See?

However, if he comes back as



I'd be happy, yay Gumshoe!

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Gumshoe comes back in GK, in fact he'll be a main character.

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The last case pretty much defined the whole series for me, although taking down the real criminal was never as satisfying as

The epic objection made the series for me, and I feel Phoenix/Maya was far more strongly suggested than Phoenix/Iris. If anything, it seemed like Phoenix and Iris would never be together again after allt hat had happened. Besides, Phoenix has to support Myaa and Pearl, and he can't do that while Pearl's slapping him all day.

I have no idea. The case involving Iris, and the one involving Dahlia made me feel sad inside.

Yeah, I was exactly like this too. I'd read up on Apollo Justice and was expecting something crazy to happen at the end. It didn't help that I listened to the orchestral soundtrack and had a gander at track 11, the GS3 epilogue. Let's face it, if you haven't heard the original, it's like "Wow that must be some major sad stuff going on" or something, idk, it just sounded massively dramatic or something. But, I digress.

Big Spoilers Ahead

I loved the ending, don't really think it could've been made much better (well, of course they could have). Of all the GS games, T&T definitely had the strongest emotional impact across all of the cases; everything felt that much closer and personal than in GS1 and, notably, GS2, which I thought was considerably detached from the rest of the series. Funny, given that 2-2 is a set-up for a major plot element of the series... hmm.

Regardless, yeah, I loved the ending. 3-5 was my favourite case out of the GS series, because everything really came together, and it just FELT a lot more dramatic and important than any other case (even moreso than 2-4). Dahlia was built up very convincingly as a villain across the whole game, and I was pleased to see her finally get her comeuppance. I remember when Maya was like "I could see the man" and Phoenix was like "HOW COULD YOU DO THAT IT WAS DARK" and I was like "oh shit! Godot has a glowing visor NOOOOOOOOO", and that was honestly the greatest shock I'd ever felt in a game before, just like this "god damnnnnn". Maybe I'm overdramatizing it a little! Don't get me wrong, everything leading up to there in terms of plot twists or revelations was a shock, but that was the biggest across all the GS games, imo.

Fantastic characterization and backstory to be found in this one. Godot/Diego's past, how it related to Mia and, most importantly, Phoenix, was fantastic. I found myself second-guessing a lot throughout the filler cases as to how Godot knew Phoenix, but of course I was always two straws short. They will be hard fetched to top this game at the end of Apollo's trilogy, given they follow the same pattern, of course.

Also, seeming as this is my first post, I may as well cause a wee bit of controversy. I've been lurking the last couple of days and noticed there's quite the "debate" going on about whether it should Phoenix x Iris, Phoenix x Maya or Phoenix x Edgeworth.

Siding with Phoenix x Iris here. :) Pairing him with Maya would be a strange union, I think; I think they've passed the level where they could have had a romantic pairing now. I thought Iris was a genuinely wonderful character once you cracked down all of her... secrets and everything. Their past relationship doesn't matter because, well, they've both moved on (sort of), and grown up, but hell, there's nothing wrong with starting anew. Bring on the Feenris, says I!

*goes to wreak havoc elsewhere on the boards*

EDIT: I have a question, one partially related to this topic, one not. I've read a lot on the boards that everyone says by the time AJ rolls around that Godot and Manfred von Karma are dead. Now admittedly, I've only played the GS games once each (a crime I intend to resolve soon), but I can't remember there being a mention of either of them being executed. Can someone point me on the right track here?

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(It depends on what you mean by 'dumb', dear.)

Innocent naivety: in a whole, in definition.

Understand that the love some have for their siblings can't be won over. No matter how bad what Dahlia requested might have been, Iris went through with it -- although she did try to damper Dahlia's plans to kill Phoenix because she was in love with him.

Dahlia only wanted her pendant back, while Iris wanted Phoenix himself, and to put a hold on his fateful last day with Dahlia. Phoenix only ever met the real Dahlia twice: the day she gave the pendant to him, and the day they both appeared in court. It should be taken note of that Dahlia did not give a flying fuck about Terry Fawles, who used the pendant to kill himself on stand as a symbol of the betrayal he'd inflicted on their "relationship."

Day by day, for... eight months? Six? I forget, Iris would ask for the pendant back at least once, getting only a witty remark from Phoenix and laughter.

I'm not going to state my opinion about you. But I am going to say this. You can think Iris is dumb as long as you want, or that her decision is dumb, or whatever. But keep in mind that not only could Iris have been NICE by doing what she did, she could have also been afraid of Dahlia's power to manipulate and get whatever she wanted.

Iris is and will remain one of my favorite GS characters despite all of this. But she is CERTAINLY not stupid for being kind.

Also, to who asked: it can only be assumed here that once you've been put on stand for homicide, you'll be put to death (following Dahlia's mentioned execution).

Even if Godot WAS executed, at least he's with Mia.

this was defently my favorite ending /case out off all of them hearind godot/deigo story at the end was so amazing it was written really well and the part where he was bleeding and he's all like " These must be my tears" omg so moving i really liked how everybody went to tres bien and how pearls and maya suported eachother and the little doodle at the end too the only part i didnt like is you dont really find out what happens to any one after that but i guess thats what GK and GS5 are going to be for sorta like a hidden cliff hanger in a way ...sorta

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I dunno... it was a great ending plotwise - Godot made me cry, to say the least.
But it's also true that they didn't really wrap up all of those little loose ends, not to mention that infamous calling card.

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Does the calling card really matter THAT much?

Personally I like the thought that she kept the card to herself as a reminder of how to be human and kind and caring and how being "imperfect" isn't all bad.

Lay off it, her care for the card may imply a little x but I'd rather x still leave the card alone, what would she say about the card?

Phoenix Wright! About this last clue from that trial long ago....*shows card* I've held onto it...to remind me
Oh that....wasn't that...so...long ago HEY! look it's me! You drew this Maya?
Yeahup! I needed it to remind me that you were fighting for me...when I was kidnapped.
Aww thats sweet, maybe I'll make this my calling card.
I wouldn't recommend it pal unless you want De Killer on your tail.
Oh well....I'll just hold onto this then?

*Stupid card added to evidence*
Anything Else Franziska?
I...I....grr foolishly foolish fools *whips*

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The only thing that spoils it is that, despite the happy ending, I know that only two months later that Phoenix is going to get his attorney badge taken away from him, due to some jerk of a magician.

I just finished T&T.

What an amazing ending. It was a plot twist I really didn't expect. I knew that Godot was involved, but for those reasons? It was mind-blowing. And, of course, the music was top notch and very fitting, adding great atmosphere.

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I've just completed it yesterday, and I don't think Franchizca wasn't much of a challenge in court like she usually is.

I thought it was the best ending of all four games. I really wish that Phoenix was spending more time with Iris though, since she saved his life. I also wish that Misty was still alive to be with Maya. I suppose that's the reason for the events in GS4.

The ending was really great. Even without the knowledge that Phoenix would get disbarred two months later, the ending seemed really final. Edgeworth and Franziska left for Germany. Maya is the Master. Maya's mother, Misty, has passed away, and so has Morgan (this is simply implied). Everything has been tied up in the end or in the credits (with the exception of Edgeworth and Franziska. That was a real bummer. Oh well). I think Godot will come back though, if not in GS5, then later. Godot didn't commit murder, he did it to protect Maya (though this can be argued). Had he not acted that way, Maya would have been dead, perhaps Pearls (because Misty channeled her). And the "you did something I wasn't able to" completely summed up Phoenix's "change". In PW:AA, he was just someone fighting to protect his clients. Then 2-4 got suddenly a lot more personal. And he was defending a killer, but had to defend him or Maya would die... There was all this crap around him. Not to mention Edgeworth being more bitchy than ever before. I hate Edgeworth so much in that case. But after 2-4, Phoenix was no unsure of what he was fighting for. It left him a very slow healing wound. But in 3-5, when Godot had the chance to escape his crimes (simply letting Iris get acquitted and that was it), he wanted to go on, he wnated Phoenix tried to succeed. And Mia wanted Godot to just drop it, she was willing to let it go. And Phoenix didn't even pause to think about not indicting the real killer aka. Godot. This was when Phoenix knew what was the most important in law and in court- the truth. And that was whast Mia was unable to do but Phoenix was- find the truth no matter what. That was when Phoenix surpassed (or at least reached) the level of Mia. And it was a full circle. Phoenix knew what was most important now, so he didn't have to stay in law. (Finally got that out of my system. Sorry guys, just ranting here...)
But that doesn't mean I don't hate Apollo Justice. CAPCOM gave Phoenix 2 months, and then he got disbarred. They could've waited another year or something- let things sink in and settle down, and also allowing all the loose ends in 3-5 get wrapped up, allowing CAPCOM to create another Phoenix game (or at least include a case in GS5 where PHoenix was the defense. Aaaaaaah sorry guys, I'm ranting...


EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure were Franziska and Edgeworth went, all I know is that they left the country. My bad, sorry guys...

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Last edited by The Objector on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Did they? Was this mentioned in the end? Don't laugh at me for asking this xD

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Er... no, but Franziska left for Germany in the end of JFA, and Edgeworth states "he is going on another journey to rediscover himself" or something. So I'm guessing it's Germany, because Franziska didn't stay and neither did Edgeworth. Actually, I should edit my previous post, that was just an assumption. My bad. Or maybe I don't remember. Either way, thanks for pointing that out.

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No problem

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