Oh I'm not denying he relied on her, I'm just saying he never came across as an incompetent lawyer because of it. The same goes for Apollo with Klavier, too.

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-Them being able to maintain the balance between the three main characters and giving each proper focus (well, more so on Apollo and Athena than Phoenix).

-Maya, or the presence thereof. Segue incoming...

-Cameo overload. I don't mind appearances of older characters as long as they add to the story in some meaningful way. However, the last thing I'd want is for them to bring back a character for the sake of fanservice when they could have done something more or have accomplished their function with a new character (AAI).

-Not enough Apollo focus. This is hardly a concern looking at the current coverage, but still... I don't want this game to be PHOENIXPHOENIXapolloPHOENIXPHOENIX. Poor guy is like Raiden in MGS2.

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Actually, I don't see dependence as a bad thing, especially when it's concerned to the protagonist of the game. When a character is too skilled and full of supernatural powers, the history seems far-fetched, superficial, appellative.
Phoenix had his space in court - he was "the" lawyer, he was the thinker. Maya was the spiritual assistant, Mia the experienced mentor. It was a mutual help, it's a healthy relationship between characters. Apollo gets all the merits, I find this annoying. Think about the main characters in shonen anime - Naruto, Ichigo, Natsu, they always have a special power and ALWAYS reborn from the ashes without anyone's help in battles. This kind of character does not please me. It's a cliché heroism.

Nobody said anything about Phoenix having supernatural powers. He has no special background except that incredibly stupid mock trial in 4th Grade - what kind of class would create a mock trial for something like that? Not to mention the teacher being part of it.
If Phoenix was capable of being on the stand alone, that would actually make him cool. But no, he needs the help of a damn, knows-less-about-law-than-he-does teenager. Said teenager can also summon the big-boobed sister. Or a damn teenager who is a copy of the above mentioned teenager.

Fact of the matter is, Phoenix is an idiot. He doesn't know a single thing about tactics in court, falls for the silliest of traps and thinks the silliest of ideas will always work. Sadly, they do. But it's a game and I resort myself to the wonderful fantasy that is, "If Phoenix were to act like that in real-life court, he would've been disbarred wa~ay long ago"

C-A

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Well, I dunno if someone's here disagrees with me but that's my impression: the AA series began with plenty of western stereotypes. Phoenix himself is a big portrait of an average american guy, without mentioning characters like April May and Will Powers. I'm not saying those games hadn't japanese influences but not as the later releases. Look at GK, the game is an anime. I like the Japanese culture, but I fear that the series will incorporate the worst aspects of it.

Last edited by Thelema on Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How? How is Phoenix an American guy?
He doesn't look American.

C-A

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Well, there is no contest that Nick is an idiot. He really is an idiot, heck it shows during Mia's flashback trial. And it shows on every game he's in (well except Hobo Nick, but maybe because he's not bound by rules anymore, being a pianist/pokerhead and disbarred and stuff). Mia even said he would need at least 3 years of experience at least before he can win Maya's trial.

But I think in the case of the series' progression (T&T would be the "decisive evidence"), he WAS an idiot (mind the past tense). Standing on court alone doesn't necessarily mean he won't need anyone's help. On every trial he defends, he takes the fall and the risks every-damn-time. And that's what we loved about Phoenix. Heck, even Edgy learned on his own ways that he can't do things alone, despite his stoic personality, and we still consider him "badass" than Phoenix. And without those "helpful" people, how do you think other characters closest to Phoenix would be introduced? It is a fact already that Phoenix is indeedly helpless most of the time, but at least he openly admits it. And even though he has some help, it is him always in the end who ends the crisis by himself.

The only gripe I would have in GS5 would be Athena. I think she's only there to introduce the new gameplay system.

I would say different about Apollo though. I don't really hate him, but I've got a different opinion about him. He seems like to act just like a cookie-cutter shonen manga/anime hero. He's:

-young
-has an ability that differs with others, which usually surprises enemies and allies alike
-hotblooded (Chords Of Steel)
-bumbling and easily embarassed


At least, Phoenix is a character of his own. He has is own mannerisms, own point of views, own way of thinking things (especially during Apollo's game, not to mention, even Apollo sought his help). Apollo just acts like Phoenix. Heck, he even idolizes Nick at some point.I think the ONLY thing different about him is his ability.

But then I heard that GS5 would focus on Polly and Nick's different views about the "truth".

And about Phoenix having no "special background", the whole series itself is HIS special background. I think it helped that Nick doesn't have a very dynamic past because that would make a very special blank canvass to paint on.

Apollo is just merely a new branch sprouted from the main storyline I would think. I just hate the fact that some people think Phoenix is inferior despite all of the hardships he had during the course of the whole franchise.

You do realize the series is a parody on Japan's former judicial system, right? I mean, the games have lately gained western influence, not the other way around.


but this just made my day. Maybe we Americans ought to add Phoenix hair to the national symbolic eagle.


Funny, I feel that way about Simon. He's there just to frighten children on Halloween night. Okay, no he isn't, but we barely know anything about these new characters. Give them an opportunity to show off what makes them lovable. We've had Phoenix for 12 years now, but Apollo for half of that and Athena for less then a year.

She may be a character stereotype, but we could say that about any character in this series. This game series LIVES for stereotypes.


Wait, what? Why would Phoenix be inferior? He has more games. More games = more time for fleshing out a character. I don't see how it could be any simpler.

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Funny, I feel that way about Simon. He's there just to frighten children on Halloween night. Okay, no he isn't, but we barely know anything about these new characters. Give them an opportunity to show off what makes them lovable. We've had Phoenix for 12 years now, but Apollo for half of that and Athena for less then a year.

She may be a character stereotype, but we could say that about any character in this series. This game series LIVES for stereotypes.


Wait, what? Why would Phoenix be inferior? He has more games. More games = more time for fleshing out a character. I don't see how it could be any simpler.[/quote]

I dunno, but maybe your right somehow. She's actually more spunkier than Maya and Trucy combined (and even more spunkier and livelier than your regular psychologist). It's more of the reasons why I want to play GS5. As for Simon, I'm more curious about his background, and this is the same way I felt for Edgy many years ago. Especially on how a person like Detective Fullbright came to like him a lot to work with despite being polar opposites.

And I'm not saying that Nick is inferior, that's actually what I'm hating since other people tend to imply so. Having other people help him is't really a weakness. Him being an idiot (but not Larry Butz or Mike Meekins level) is what we loved about him and the reason why he developed all these years from a "rookie attorney" to "Turnabout Terror".

Apollo even learned from him that the silliest of ideas can be also the truth. And based from the trailers, maybe this is one of the reasons between Apolo and Phoenix's clash of ideals when it come to defending.

And why do I feel Simon will eventually get a Edgeworth-like case. since he is suspected as a murderer?