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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Moddragon22 wrote:
SuperAj3 wrote:
But I can't remember if he was a prosecutor at the time or not.

He was. :simon:

Really? Blackquill was locked up with 21 years, and that was the year after Phoenix was disbarred, which mean he would have been 18 when Mia died. I guess it's possible to have them meet before that since teenage genius are nothing new to the series, but we don't know for sure.
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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I'll have you know that Blackquill and Maya are the same age
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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pumpkin pie

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My idea: no Yamazaki
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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He's done with AA I think.
He didn't want to do GS6 Eshiro had to convince him XD

Who would write GS7? If there were one, Takumi would be done with DGS by then...
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Fuse was co director of GS6. Maybe he could fully direct 7.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Yeah but who'll write it? He's the main artist, so they'd need someone to lead the writing of the game.
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Not sure if they all still work at Capcom, but there are at least three persons (Nakamura, Fukuda and other Fuse) who have each worked as writers on at least two different Ace Attorney titles, so they could easily lead a writing team like usual (that's more experience than Yamazaki had before he had to lead a whole new game as both writer and director), and there's always the option of going external...
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Honestly, at this point I'd like a soft reboot story-wise and a mostly fresh staff. Have past characters in secondary or minor roles but give the focus on a new cast.

See if they can get Kinu Nishimura back to do the art
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title

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Capcom has been very keen on appealing to the western market with their legacy franchises lately. It's probably about time that they hand off this series to some screenwriters and make the mysteries less zany and more grounded.

Also, let go of the anime artstyle?

Kidding aside, this series is like any Marvel or DC comics in that it has the potential to take on a multitude of different spins and iterations across various artists, so I hope one day they'll just surprise you with a new Ace Attorney that has a new staff and has a bold premise that doesn't reek of fanservice, derived or retrodden ideas. I just don't read nearly enough japanese novels or manga to know where the inspirations could come from.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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I think 6-4 and 6-2 were rather grounded honestly. They weren't zany and quite interesting imo.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Swiggity Swooty

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Southern Corn wrote:
I think 6-4 and 6-2 were rather grounded honestly. They weren't zany and quite interesting imo.


Idk if I would call them grounded, especially 6-4. I wouldn't call Uendo "grounded" by any means.
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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The case itself was pretty simplistic though.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Many of the cases in the series have been pretty simplistic, straightforward, grounded, etc. They just have a little more absurdity thrown in as well as the series has developed.

Honestly, I don't see anything bad in particular about raising absurdity levels. AA has always had roots in being silly from the very beginning. There's a good reason why this series didn't take off to be another L.A. Noire. What I see of writers beyond copying Takumi's style is potential to take the series to new grounds. Detective Conan wouldn't have lasted nearly so long as it has if it always tried to stick to the nitty gritty side of crime solving.

I do agree that we should get a soft reboot of the cast, but the original characters still deserve to hold important roles here and there. They don't have to show, but their presence should be accounted for.

Unless the soft reboot involves another timeskip for no particular reason like in AJ, just so we can forget the current cast and inevitably have another blank that isn't explained. I suppose I'd be okay with retconning AJ's timeskip if it means the alternative is more fluid development of the old cast mingled with the new.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title

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They should stick to Mr. Kojima's philosophy here regarding the Snake vs Raiden switch in MGS2 which was partially true to AA4 and 5 but they didn't stick enough to it in 5 IMO;
"The only way to continue developing Snake as a character is to let the player view him from the outside. He's supposed to be a legend, he's someone you hear about not someone you are" or something like that.

The sense of staleness to Phoenix in AA5 and 6 come in hard whenever you're in court where he's actually challenged, but there always seems to be a bit of an inconsistency because he's acting like he used to back in AA123 whenever he loses an argument and because everyone keeps referring to him as a legend -- "the king of bluffing" or whatever. It's one of many show don't tell issues. It's like Dark Age of Law. Is the law really going through a significantly worse age of darkness in AA5 as opposed to any of the previous games? Arguably not because we never what that amounts to, and the same problem persists with Nick being this awe-inspiring Defense Legend that the whole world apparently knows about because he basically haven't changed.

Yet, sometimes you see people say they like AA5-Nick the most and I'm pretty sure they're thinking the same thing I am which is how he appears in 5-2 or 5-3 when you're talking to him as one of the other attorneys. That felt like a continuation of who he had become in AA4 but without the secrecy so he really did feel like someone guiding his junior staff to make them become better, and I still think they can do something with that version of Nick we haven't seen yet.

In AA4 Phoenix was a legend in a tragic sense, like some big taboo of the law that nobody ever spoke about anymore, but in AA5 he's returned as a legend everyone looks up to and his opponents are eager to put show they can put down his fame, so it kind of bothers me we have yet to see the writers really find a story where Nick as a Legal-World Hero faces some sort of struggle. I loved the bullshit trailer for AA5 that teased conflicts that ultimately didn't really happen like Nick having to face a crisis of interest within his own firm. It still kinda happens but I think they sort of swept a lot of its potential under the rug with the way Dual Destinies developed its plot.

I think they can make a game where Phoenix feels important without a reset-button, where you either play as Athena or someone new (I think Apollo has already had a story where his actions will impact Nick's character enough) who we will play as, and get into some kind of turmoil that places Nick in a Farewell, My Turnabout kind of situation where he has to make a hard decision and teach us an important lesson he's learned, and all that will happen without us actually playing as Phoenix and it will happen without Phoenix being completely mysterious the entire game. There was also a missed opportunity to grow Athena more naturally by having her attend cases with Phoenix as her co-counsel. He should be able to course-correct both her and Apollo a lot just like in 4-1.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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It's clear that Yamazaki's team can write Phoenix well. His attitude and demeanor when he's acting like their boss or mentor leaves some pretty good impressions. But as mentioned above, it's inconsistent with how he seems to act in court - stark contrast between how he's shown in the flashback of 4-4 and how he used to be since the trilogy. They sought a middle ground with him that does work for the most part.

I'd say the way he acts in court is somewhat affected by the fact that he's also the protagonist. Like Edgeworth, despite being of some respectable status in canon who is capable of so much more, once he's put in the player's control, he has to take a step back to ensure the players are keeping up. It's a matter of game difficulty, rather than character portrayal, that takes precedence. In other words, Capcom is playing it safe. (Imo, they often play it too safe too often, but this is a pretty widespread franchise.)

Hence why both gentlemen sometimes act like they don't know what's going on even though the players may know or are already ahead, yet when taken to non-interactive mediums like novels, audio dramas, manga, stage plays, and movies, the connections happen a lot faster and more smoothly. (In the case of the anime, they shoved too much in too little time and created that effect by force. I don't think it worked out that well.)

In other cases, though, it is simply lazy/convenient writing. For the sake of conflict, right?

From what I see, the main problem with setting Athena as the protagonist is that they already revealed so much about her story in AA5 and by AA6, 6-4 is essentially an epilogue to that game. There's not much new to cover on the home turf. So, if they're willing to expand her story in Europe, I can see things taking a new and refreshing turn. There's more cross-culture to explore, and Athena is the ideal character for it. She's young, energetic, and eager to learn. Not to mention, it'd make sense with the localization's explanation for where she went during her childhood. The source version can just pretend her trip to America also included a mixing of European cultures.

I worry a bit more about how they'll take Edgeworth from here, since as one of the fan favorites, he's obligated to show. They did well with the story of AAI2, but I think they were especially rocky in terms of Edgeworth's character development across both AAI games. By the end of the original trilogy, Edgeworth was pretty well established, aside from a few quirks that can be expected to linger. When the AAI games came along, it went from a still pond to a whirlpool.

By the time he shows in AA6, they even have little to do for his role in the game. He's reduced to comic relief just so he can join Phoenix in an investigation that he technically should not be getting involved in, being a Chief Prosecutor from another country. And then they had to insert a "high-profile" case just to make an excuse for him to show up in court again. In hindsight, it doesn't bode well for his future appearances.

tl;dr, make Phoenix like Mia and make Edgeworth like Klavier, so the new cast of characters can really shine.

That being said, if the next game does take place in Europe, I feel it would only be fair that we see Franziska again. That means Phoenix and Edgeworth can act as her whipping boys in absence of Gumshoe. The only true justification for shoehorn.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
It's clear that Yamazaki's team can write Phoenix well. His attitude and demeanor when he's acting like their boss or mentor leaves some pretty good impressions. But as mentioned above, it's inconsistent with how he seems to act in court - stark contrast between how he's shown in the flashback of 4-4 and how he used to be since the trilogy. They sought a middle ground with him that does work for the most part.

I'd say the way he acts in court is somewhat affected by the fact that he's also the protagonist. Like Edgeworth, despite being of some respectable status in canon who is capable of so much more, once he's put in the player's control, he has to take a step back to ensure the players are keeping up. It's a matter of game difficulty, rather than character portrayal, that takes precedence. In other words, Capcom is playing it safe. (Imo, they often play it too safe too often, but this is a pretty widespread franchise.)

Hence why both gentlemen sometimes act like they don't know what's going on even though the players may know or are already ahead, yet when taken to non-interactive mediums like novels, audio dramas, manga, stage plays, and movies, the connections happen a lot faster and more smoothly. (In the case of the anime, they shoved too much in too little time and created that effect by force. I don't think it worked out that well.)

In other cases, though, it is simply lazy/convenient writing. For the sake of conflict, right?

From what I see, the main problem with setting Athena as the protagonist is that they already revealed so much about her story in AA5 and by AA6, 6-4 is essentially an epilogue to that game. There's not much new to cover on the home turf. So, if they're willing to expand her story in Europe, I can see things taking a new and refreshing turn. There's more cross-culture to explore, and Athena is the ideal character for it. She's young, energetic, and eager to learn. Not to mention, it'd make sense with the localization's explanation for where she went during her childhood. The source version can just pretend her trip to America also included a mixing of European cultures.

I worry a bit more about how they'll take Edgeworth from here, since as one of the fan favorites, he's obligated to show. They did well with the story of AAI2, but I think they were especially rocky in terms of Edgeworth's character development across both AAI games. By the end of the original trilogy, Edgeworth was pretty well established, aside from a few quirks that can be expected to linger. When the AAI games came along, it went from a still pond to a whirlpool.

By the time he shows in AA6, they even have little to do for his role in the game. He's reduced to comic relief just so he can join Phoenix in an investigation that he technically should not be getting involved in, being a Chief Prosecutor from another country. And then they had to insert a "high-profile" case just to make an excuse for him to show up in court again. In hindsight, it doesn't bode well for his future appearances.

tl;dr, make Phoenix like Mia and make Edgeworth like Klavier, so the new cast of characters can really shine.

That being said, if the next game does take place in Europe, I feel it would only be fair that we see Franziska again. That means Phoenix and Edgeworth can act as her whipping boys in absence of Gumshoe. The only true justification for shoehorn.

I'd agree it definitely seems that capcom is putting Edgeworth's character in the game for no reason when we know his character inside and out
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title

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I agree that, AA6 sets a bad precedent. As I've said before they've been jumping the shark with AA5 and AA6 by making them SO high-stakes that the finales are both high-profile and of "national importance" kind of cases, and that's too much which is unfortunate because AAI, AAI2 and AA5 and AA6 consistently prove that Yamazaki has a hunger for conspiracy-like cases of grand proportions of epicness, so chances are if he's still at the helm of future games, he'll keep doing that style. I'll see that as a limitation they can work with rather than a hindrance even if it means we're only going "even bigger" from here.

Regarding Edgeworth, the necessity of high-profile cases he imposes since it seems to be a mandate that he HAS to show up out of fan-demand and from people making the games, can work in GS7's favor if they find a good subplot or theme within it. For example, he's chief prosecutor. He may have proven to be worthy of that title, but he's privileged and he can be challenged. His responsibilities are also much bigger, which is a force that can cause a lot of pressure, and considering how fallible humans are there's room for Edgeworth making really big mistakes, and I think that's what I'd like to see from him. Not the cliché where he shows up to prosecute in the finale, or just shows up to say "Hi, Phoenix, didya miss me?" but one where he has an agenda like in AA5, but instead of melodrama and forced behavior to beat the same ol, same ol way where he's like "Logic is teh only way, but the truth is most important!" until his assertions are misproven, this time he'll cause the next failure of epic proportions and has to redeem himself with the help of Phoenix and co.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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A small, mischievous part of me wants Yamazaki to get free reins just to see how big he will go. "The future of the solar system depends on us catching this killer!"
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Actually, Yamazaki is pretty lowkey with mysteries, but probably likes them a bit more "complex" (or convoluted imo, but it's not always a bad thing). That the scale of the games have gone grander and wilder may be more because of Eshiro, who frequently panders to a wider audience. Perhaps they and the rest of the team think this progression is more popular. To be fair, they wouldn't be wrong. Just look at the collection of triple A games that have been released so far this year.

As a result, I don't see much marketability for making new games with a more down-to-earth style. Maybe it can work well, but there still has to be something refreshing or exciting to promote in the trailers. At least DGS2 is tying up loose ends of its prequel, so that's how it can market itself. But tbh, the info we've gotten so far suggests there isn't much else (like a new gimmick or whatnot) to show other than hint at the plot mysteries. I'm looking forward to it, but I don't expect sales for it to rocket.

If anything, I think I'd rather see a new title from Takumi or Yamazaki that isn't AA-related. They have lots of potential that is being bogged down by technicalities in a massive franchise. After all, Takumi wanted a game about Sherlock Holmes, but was forced to include some tie to the AA series. And Yamazaki has gone on break now.

I don't want to say I'm not looking forward to GS7, but we should get a new scenario director who isn't afraid to be a little adventurous.
Ever armed with trollswatters and defending Phoenix Wright and Miles Edgeworth... as their supposed daughter.

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
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Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Actually, I get the impression that when we talk about "Yamazaki" and "Takumi" it's referring to the teams at large and not necessarily the individuals. Takumi-games, Yamazaki-games. At least that's how I do it because I'm fairly unfamiliar with exactly who did what when.
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Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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I know, but I'm a sucker for clarification. Takumi usually does the entire scenario first before he talks with other people about it. The only exception I see where that differed is with the crossover, since Hino had a big part in Layton's significance. Yamazaki works with the team from the start. That's why I usually refer to the individuals themselves when I mention their names.

Takumi is also director of his games, so he can get away doing things this way. Then again, I feel any game with Eshiro as producer is bound to have the style I mentioned above. It's part of why I'm looking forward to DGS2. Been a while since he and Takumi worked on a game together and things are bound to go wild.
Ever armed with trollswatters and defending Phoenix Wright and Miles Edgeworth... as their supposed daughter.

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.
Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title

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Going for Miles wrote:
Actually, I get the impression that when we talk about "Yamazaki" and "Takumi" it's referring to the teams at large and not necessarily the individuals. Takumi-games, Yamazaki-games. At least that's how I do it because I'm fairly unfamiliar with exactly who did what when.

Not for me. I think of Yamazaki as a team, but I feel like Yamazaki is the one who pushes for the "grand" scale because all his games feature some sort of national-scale overarching plot and given he's director I feel that's his agenda -- the same way I have a suspicion that "The Matrix" in AJAA was that game's director's agenda rather than Takumi's. The execution is always "Yamazaki & Co." in terms of the script. With Takumi I know he's almost, if not always 100% responsible for the script. There may be editors and planners but Takumi basically writes every word in the script of all games except the Crossover, and he's also director in AA123 and DGS so I hold him accountable for all that. AJAA had a seperate director as I mentioned, and I have no doubt he imposed ideas Takumi had to compromise more with, and he had more say in what was done with other departments like art and gameplay.

I think art, UI, non-narrative direction is more up to the teams themselves and I actually think DD and AA6 as much as they may be oversaturated-looking and the UI is a bit more sluggish, they have top-notch art design that rivals what Takumi's team does in many respects. It does still feel overall like a B-team though, similar to how Dark Souls and Bloodborne differ from Dark Souls 2.

Eshiro is very producer-minded cuz he's a producer, but I think his wide-audience appeal is more tied to having too many characters and cameos and ensuring fanservice makes the cut, than he's the reason why the finale of all his games are so epic in scope. From interviews I get the impression that Eshiro is more concerned with including the features people want to see while the story and its direction is more on Yamazaki. The only compromise is if Yamazaki pulls too far away from the Ace Attorney DNA and Eshiro will probably say "Please make it more like T&T" or something. Like you said before, I think a game that sprung solely from Yamazaki's mind would probably be an Ace Attorney with a floating courtroom in an alternative dimension where it's revealed that it's all an optical illusion caused by a foreign country over Japanifornia to prevent their trojan horse being discovered -- something WILD.

I'd actually like to see what an unhinged Yamazaki could make, but I'm afraid that A: It's going to be derivative of Ace Attorney or some other franchise without Yamazaki realizing it, and B: I wouldn't be able to follow the train of logic before stopping halfway through going "What the hell is even going on anymore!?!?"

^ You can tell Takumi's games have less peer review for better or for worse. He's a better writer than any individual on the Yamazaki team, but he's still one guy deciding everything and without likeminded writers pointing out bad ideas when he comes up with them, which does happen here and there. Both teams's games have self-indulgent moments or weird unnecessary quirks but they sort of feel different in Takumi's games right since AA1 have had these moments here and there. Most writers have this philosophy of "kill your babies". I'm not sure if Takumi is able to do that with the amount of solo-work he does whereas Yamazaki's own input is constantly put up to scrutiny as they make the product, but for better or worse, it also leads to groupthink that can go both ways.
Takumi vs Yamazaki andMissile.
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Okay, so I did a stupid joke and sloppily used "Yamazaki" rather than "Yamazaki & co." because grand killings and the Investigations games + DD and SoJ are labelled "Yamazaki" in my head because his name is pretty much the only one that has popped up constantly in discussions about writing style, plots etc. My point was it was obviously a side-comment that had nothing to do with anything and was in jest (for clarification, I don't want a GS7 at all) so picking apart a choice of words mostly felt uncalled for since it didn't really matter for the discussion at hand and I think anyone reading it would most likely understand what I meant.

Quote:
Not for me. I think of Yamazaki as a team, but I feel like Yamazaki is the one who pushes for the "grand" scale because all his games feature some sort of national-scale overarching plot and given he's director I feel that's his agenda --

But that's... exactly my point?
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: GS7 IdeasTopic%20Title

Calm, pacified attorney

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Sorry, half of my post was commenting on something Rubia said, I'm just too lazy to quote properly :viola:
Takumi vs Yamazaki andMissile.
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