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How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Whenever discussion seems to stir up about future games after GS6, there's always a bunch suggesting they actually make the Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney game that thus far hasn't been made, and I think the suggestion is that you primarily play from her POV and no switching back and forth outside of one flashback or two.

With rumors that Yamazaki is out of the house, and Apollo as well (most likely) according to how GS6 wrapped up, I could see an Athena game become a thing very likely. A straight up Phoenix & Athena game could also be made, sure, but the appealing aspect of Athena's own game is that this simply hasn't been done before (ish). The problem is that she's a controversial character within the fandom.

My stance on Athena and her "problems" is that she is already overdeveloped, or rather that her initial development was strongly attempted (unlike Apollo in GS4 for instance) but fumbled by relying too strongly on tropes of Phoenix Wright & Co.'s story arcs and creating a mishmash that forced her into every likely situation in one game's runtime. It felt rushed and desperate and it leaves her in an awkward spot where she, alongside the other cast members seems downright artificial as a character as I think her development was done robotically (fitting!).

On the contrary many think her personality makes up for it or that these complaints aren't that big of a deal. There are many of you who think she's just fine, but to everyone I would like to ask you to suggest; "what can you do with Athena to make her, as the protagonist, interesting and develop more, in GS7?" because I assume Apollo is going to be on hiatus for a while in the main series, and that places emphasis either on Phoenix who's more than reached an end-point if I had any say in it, making him boring to continue, or Athena who despite all is still a fresher face not to mention various characters you met in Dual Destinies or 6-4.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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I really liked her in SoJ, so continuing down that road with her character, I would be all up for it. Despite her taking up a lot of space in DD and appearing in two games already, she has in my opinion been severely underused as a lawyer and player character, much because she was kind of crammed into the series at a time where there wasn't exactly a natural place for her, so therefore I would definitely welcome a game where she gets to come into her own as a lawyer and shine as a player character in a way she hasn't really got to do before. I'd like to see some focus on her shtick, that is the psychology aspect. As seen in 5-5 and 6-4 the mood matrix can be utilized in pretty creative ways so I think it still has potential as a mechanic and to serve a story. As for story, I guess there is still material to draw from some things presented in 5-5 although that might get too hands-on sequel-ish, on the other hand SoJ feels more connected to AJ than DD did, so in the same vein it might be possible to do something similar with a 7 in some loose relation to DD. Anyhow, seeing as Athena is quite the controversial character, I'd think the game would benefit from having some sort of "hook" beyond being just -new AAgame- and/or -Athena's the focus-, kind of like SoJ had the Khura'in thing. Possibly something psychology-related somehow.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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I was thinking about this recently, but I kept putting off bringing it up. Mostly because I can’t decide. I suppose there could be an expansion on either her backstory at the Space Center or in Europe, but then there’d have to be a reason for it not coming up in DD. Maybe her Europe story has potential.

I agree on her being underdeveloped as a playable character (the same could be said for Apollo in DD, but SoJ then came along to make up for that). She’s only had two fully playable cases, and a small segment of 5-1. If anything, she needs to be playable in multiple cases so we can compare her development between them. Being a playable character, she needs an opportunity to come into her own. Her biggest issue right now is that she suffers from confidence issues whether it’s in DD or SoJ.

She could meet a child who is like her when she was a child and relate to them on a personal level (Armie is already like that, and it was a missed opportunity for them to talk about this)

I wonder if the courtroom trauma will come back? She probably overcame it after 5-5.

I wholly agree on her psychology shtick, Going for Miles. SoJ showed that there’s still potential in it.

All in all, I don’t think the series can move forward by relying on Phoenix all the time. I think Apollo and Athena are the future. But with Athena, I heard that in Japan she’s even less-liked than she is for the Western community, generally. I think giving Athena a game to become her own lawyer is very important for the series since she is a playable character, but there are other characters, as well. Would Phoenix be playable? Maybe one case or a flashback, but for the most part, he, Trucy, and Blackquill can be assistants. And while Apollo has ended up in Khura’in, SoJ hinted at Thalassa’s future involvement in the plot, like DD did with Pearl hinting at Maya’s return.

Final point, I don’t think three playable characters is good for the series. There’s not enough cases, so somebody is going to get the short straw, and that’s been Athena in both games.
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I do think we could have a backstory about her time in Europe. That would make for an interesting game. We could also switch between her and Apollo in Khura'in and have parallels to how they lived and such in those foreign countries as a child.

I don't even think we had an explanation for how Phoenix met Athena. He just says 'I helped her out of a jam' and that's it.

There could be some potential in a GS7 like that, imo.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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Oh yes, her first meeting with Phoenix. Maybe it could be like Phoenix's first meeting with Mia? Both of them decided to become a lawyer after that meeting. Phoenix wasn't a lawyer when he met Athena, however. I was thinking about her getting caught up in some kind of incident and Phoenix helps out in the investigation or something like that.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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MBr wrote:
Oh yes, her first meeting with Phoenix. Maybe it could be like Phoenix's first meeting with Mia? Both of them decided to become a lawyer after that meeting. Phoenix wasn't a lawyer when he met Athena, however. I was thinking about her getting caught up in some kind of incident and Phoenix helps out in the investigation or something like that.

Oh, you mean like 3-1? Yeah, that'd be neat. Maybe the incident itself could have had an effect on Phoenix getting his badge back (other than what Edgeworth said, of course).

Plus with the potential Europe setting, it would also be a great opportunity to bring back Franziska as well. It wouldn't be that forced, either.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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Going for Miles wrote:
I really liked her in SoJ, so continuing down that road with her character, I would be all up for it. Despite her taking up a lot of space in DD and appearing in two games already, she has in my opinion been severely underused as a lawyer and player character, much because she was kind of crammed into the series at a time where there wasn't exactly a natural place for her, so therefore I would definitely welcome a game where she gets to come into her own as a lawyer and shine as a player character in a way she hasn't really got to do before. I'd like to see some focus on her shtick, that is the psychology aspect. As seen in 5-5 and 6-4 the mood matrix can be utilized in pretty creative ways so I think it still has potential as a mechanic and to serve a story. As for story, I guess there is still material to draw from some things presented in 5-5 although that might get too hands-on sequel-ish, on the other hand SoJ feels more connected to AJ than DD did, so in the same vein it might be possible to do something similar with a 7 in some loose relation to DD. Anyhow, seeing as Athena is quite the controversial character, I'd think the game would benefit from having some sort of "hook" beyond being just -new AAgame- and/or -Athena's the focus-, kind of like SoJ had the Khura'in thing. Possibly something psychology-related somehow.

I agree with this and hopefully they'll have her head up all the cases
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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They'll reveal she's a robot built by Metis and her power is fuelled by frequencies from the moon rock.

She then has to come to terms with being an artificial life form and tackle the legal system in an insane battle to secure human rights for herself, all the while fending off espionage attempts to capture her for research.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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The Nineth Lion

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Pierre wrote:
They'll reveal she's a robot built by Metis and her power is fuelled by frequencies from the moon rock.

She then has to come to terms with being an artificial life form and tackle the legal system in an insane battle to secure human rights for herself, all the while fending off espionage attempts to capture her for research.

While I doubt that this would actually happen, it would sure as hell make one great fanfic.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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I'd rather she get a few more trials as the lead attorney before we start giving her more development. She's been the lead on two cases in two games, both of which are filler cases, with nothing serious on the line except Blackquill facing the possibility of going elsewhere than The Whet Noodle for his precious noodles.

linkenski wrote:
and that places emphasis either on Phoenix who's more than reached an end-point if I had any say in it, making him boring to continue


Ace Attorney games don't sell well without Phoenix in it. You know it, I know it, Capcom knows it. So he's going to be in it, whether he's reached an end-point or not.
Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Capcom doesn't know it, they've just decided that because they're conservative. I dunno how effectively marketing communicated that Phoenix was prominent in AA4 but that game sold super well despite signaling heavily that it was an all-new cast.

Of course Phoenix needs to be in it, but he doesn't necessarily need to be playable or a cornerstone of the plot this time.

Also, the more you let Athena spend time with HER friends, as seen in 6-4 the better, I think. There are too many missed opportunities for her as part of Apollo and Phoenix's arcs. It never quite felt right to me the way she was INSERTED into that while they tried to develop the other characters.

But ofc, having a case where Phoenix defends her in some incident in europe or whatever could be one thing to showcase.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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linkenski wrote:
Capcom doesn't know it, they've just decided that because they're conservative. I dunno how effectively marketing communicated that Phoenix was prominent in AA4 but that game sold super well despite signaling heavily that it was an all-new cast.


You say that, and yet neither Dai Gyakuten Saiban nor AAI sold all that well, and as it happens, neither of them contain Phoenix either (at least, not in any meaningful capacity).

linkenski wrote:
Also, the more you let Athena spend time with HER friends, as seen in 6-4 the better, I think.


Having played through that case recently, I don't remember seeing Juniper Woods in it.
Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Blackquill.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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linkenski wrote:
Blackquill.


I'm convinced the only reason he helps out Athena in 6-4 is for the future of The Whet Noodle, rather than any friendship he may have for Athena. Also, friends don't set their pet hawk on friends (as Blackquill does to Athena in 5-3).
Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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They do if they're Simon Blackquill. Also it's obvious he cares about her in SoJ, in his own way.
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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Honestly, I've always wondered where her father even is. It is never explained, (I could have missed it idk.) and he is never mentioned. Although it is stated that she has family in Europe. Maybe in a future game her dad comes back and is like a mentor or something. (Sorry I haven't posted in forever haha)
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Re: How can Athena's story continue?Topic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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"Athena is an android" twist when? It can still happen. It's her father's most well-kept secret ^^
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