Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*
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So I went into AAI thinking Kay would be a fun, tomboyish breath of fresh air compared to the usual cute-and-quirky assistants we get. Instead she's the crowning Mary Sue GLORY of the AA world. UGH.
Why the HELL would no-nonsense, logical Edgeworth let some random teenage girl follow him around on a MURDER INVESTIGATION? Especially when she keeps claiming to be a thief and going on and on about wanting to STEAL something. I don't get why Edgeworth would even put UP with her, let alone let her anywhere near a friggin' CRIME SCENE. It's like whenever she was around, Edgeworth completely forgot his personality and common sense to serve her Sue whims! Edgey, I love you, but why in the WORLD would you act so brain-meltingly OOC in your own GAME?
Of course everyone loves Kay. Even Franziska, who is pretty abrasive towards everyone (like a normal FLAWED character <3). Why the hell would she like Kay!? If anything, Franziska shows disdain for people who take the focus off herself the rest of the game.
Kay's personality jumps everywhere too. One minute she's naive and incompetent, the next she's a super genius programmer who can reconstruct a crime scene in minutes, the next she's a pompous snob, the next she's a gaping idiot. And her reaction to
Spoiler:
Not to mention she's OMG so good at everything and she even
Spoiler:
I loved AAI, but Kay ruined it for me. She feels like a horrible Mary Sue self-insert. Her personality is so undefined, I feel like she could've been replaced by another character with little to no change to the story line. They could have even changed the ending to make it about Ema's past instead, and it would've been basically the same thing.
In fact, I don't think she's real. I think she's a horrible Mary Sue self-insert in a fanfic by Ema Skye. Yep. Ema wrote her as a fantasy about her and Edgeworth together, and then added a cameo of herself so no one would suspect. It's the only explanation.
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Also, I don't get why they only introduced her in case 3.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Edgeworth puts up with her because he pretty much has no other choice. Towards the beginning of Case 3 when she's introduced Edgeworth tries to make her go away numerous times but finally gives up because she won't listen to him. He pretty much decides to drop it and put up with her following him around. It's not like he still doesn't protest against her thievery though, every time she mentions something about it he explicitly tells her that he "can't turn a blind eye to illegal activities". So it's not like he didn't try to get rid of her. Sounds like someone else we know?
Although I do suppose that Phoenix had a bit more of a reason to let Maya hang around since she was Mia's sister.I'd hardly call her reaction to her father's death odd. She sobbed openly in front of everyone which was against her promise to her father to "never cry in front of strangers". Even though Byrne had died Kay still felt that she had to keep her promises to him, so she bucked up and collected herself. Franziska and others comment on just how strong she is to do that, but it's not like she just up and forgot about her father dying. During Case 3 when you first meet Lauren, you'll notice that Kay tears up and gets a bit sad when Lauren mentions losing her father. This is also the reason Franziska is less harsh on Kay. Edgeworth mentions in thought that Franziska seemed to have a soft spot for Kay because she was also the daughter of a well-renown attorney. Besides, even Franziska has a heart and soul, she couldn't very well be a bitch to a young girl that just lost her father can she?
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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DecisiveYoshi wrote:
Kay is not a genius programmer, it's stated pretty often that her father had designed "Little Thief" and from the various times that it's used Kay pretty much tells us that all she has to do is put in info and turn the zoom up to max. Even one of use could do that much.
I dunno, that must be some AMAZINGLY user-friendly interface then. Because otherwise, inputting the algorithms necessary to PERFECTLY REPLICATE a scene seems like some master programming skills to me.
If they were going to go for the whole science motif, they may as well have given the "Little Thief" to Ema. At least that would've made *some* sense.
DecisiveYoshi wrote:
Edgeworth puts up with her because he pretty much has no other choice. Towards the beginning of Case 3 when she's introduced Edgeworth tries to make her go away numerous times but finally gives up because she won't listen to him. He pretty much decides to drop it and put up with her following him around. It's not like he still doesn't protest against her thievery though, every time she mentions something about it he explicitly tells her that he "can't turn a blind eye to illegal activities". So it's not like he didn't try to get rid of her.
But he DIDN'T try to get rid of her. He whined for a moment, and then he just threw up his hands and said fine. He even starts saying "C'mon, Kay" so she'll follow him. There's cops EVERYWHERE, how easy would it be to have her thrown out of a crime scene? She's some random underage girl! And again, SHE'S CLAIMING SHE WANTS TO STEAL SOMETHING. Tampering with a crime scene is SERIOUS STUFF. I can't see Edgeworth, of ALL people, being okay with that!
Even Lang is oddly lenient with her. Oh, Ema and Oldbag have to stay as witnesses (despite the fact that Ema didn't even SEE anything), but Kay? You can go trouncing around my crime scene ALL you want. Have fun with Edgeworth!
And Edgeworth humoring her with quips about him not approving of illegal activities is hardly a real protest. It was more like he was bantering than actually complaining. And again, I can't see why Edgeworth would even waste his time here.
DecisiveYoshi wrote:
Sounds like someone else we know? Although I do suppose that Phoenix had a bit more of a reason to let Maya hang around since she was Mia's sister.
Although I do suppose that Phoenix had a bit more of a reason to let Maya hang around since she was Mia's sister.Except Phoenix is *not* Edgeworth. Phoenix is a bit of a push over, it's part of what makes him loveable. And Maya wasn't some random girl, she was his beloved mentor's little sister.
And for all her flaws (because Maya actually had some that others acknowledged, like a normal character) Maya was consistent in her characterization. Maya was cute and quirky, and yes she could be obnoxious at times, but she was consistent. Kay's so all over the map, I don't know which personality I'm supposed to like or hate!
DecisiveYoshi wrote:
I'd hardly call her reaction to her father's death odd. She sobbed openly in front of everyone which was against her promise to her father to "never cry in front of strangers". Even though Byrne had died Kay still felt that she had to keep her promises to him, so she bucked up and collected herself. Franziska and others comment on just how strong she is to do that, but it's not like she just up and forgot about her father dying. During Case 3 when you first meet Lauren, you'll notice that Kay tears up and gets a bit sad when Lauren mentions losing her father. This is also the reason Franziska is less harsh on Kay. Edgeworth mentions in thought that Franziska seemed to have a soft spot for Kay because she was also the daughter of a well-renown attorney. Besides, even Franziska has a heart and soul, she couldn't very well be a bitch to a young girl that just lost her father can she?
No, I didn't expect Franziska to be mean to someone who had lost their father. But Franziska isn't usually the type to openly admire people. Look at her and Edgeworth, it's clear she admires him tons as her big brother. What does she do? Whip him and yell at him.
Look at Franziska and Phoenix. By the end of JFA she respects Phoenix a lot too. What does she do? Whip him and yell at him. Only in PRIVATE does she hold onto the shell card.
Maya lost a parent too, and Franziska didn't say two words to *her* about it, even after Pearl confronts Franziska about how mean she is to Maya.
So for Franziska to be all "You're so strong, Kay!" to some girl she just barely met, well, that's what Sues do to people.
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Admittedly, I haven't played through the third case, I'm just at the start, but Kay's already pissing me off. As well as being just annoying and having aggravating sprites, there seems to be very little that's actually redeemable about her.
Unlike Maya, Ema or Trucy, she seems to be talking about how good she is a lot of the time, too. As the OP said, Miles' personality seems to change for her and her alone (and no... I really don't want to see fanfiction about them as a couple-- I'm already cringing in anticipation) and given how he treats Gumshoe in the first case-- and apparently he knows and likes Gumshoe-- it seems just weird and wrong for him to even tolerate Kay.
Also
Spoiler:
I thought I was really going to like her, too, but... I don't. (And... ack. The only other character I thought I'd like and wound up loathing was Iris. In short, it's best to not get my hopes up, I guess.)
Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and I utterly adore playing as Miles, but Kay just needs to be slapped off the face of the earth.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler: Apollo Justice
Mary Sues are characters that impose the author's wishes on the people and things around them, whether or not it makes sense. By this definition, a large minority of the series cast fits the bill. Not a problem; wish-fulfillment is a central feature of these games! They all have some Sue traits!
People spill their deepest secrets to Phoenix even when it makes no sense for them to do so, because he has a necklace that removes their common sense. Franziska, of course, has the magic whip that stops people from suing her. Even if Kay's in the Sue Brigade, she's got a lot of company.
And even if she's a Sue, is she a BAD Sue? She brings out a gentler side of Edgeworth's character without diluting his snarkiness. Inside the courtroom, he takes nothing from nobody, but he's a softie outside of it, as the writers make very, very clear. Kay isn't an isolated case at all; he's particularly understanding and pleasant with a certain character in the third case, and, of course, Franziska. Given the extreme circumstances in which he meets Kay, and the emphasis on his paternal streak, this personality shift is no more OOC than his continued tolerance of Gumshoe's screwups and Franziska's whipping.
The nail in the "Kay is a Super Sue" coffin, I think, is that she gets away with much less than the other sidekicks. Sues generally don't follow orders well, but the one time she really defies Edgeworth's advice...
Spoiler: case 5
Kay might talk about hypothetical theft, but Maya steals stuff constantly over Phoenix's objections and Trucy causes a consequence-free court panic (and also steals stuff), being a Great Thief who's never stolen anything seems less problematic. Also, she totally snaps to attention whenever Edgeworth wants something done, and does it.
The problem, if there is one, isn't that Kay is a Sue, but that she's unremittingly shallow. So? The whole game's fluff. AJ was fluff, this is fluff, and the difference between the two is that AAI is superb fluff, and Kay is the Queen of Fluff.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Ema only had one case, but Ema basically adopted Maya's personality with an extra helping of SCIENCE and Edgeworthfangirlism - there wasn't really anything new to expand on. Of course, her character was later developed in AJ.
Despite this, I'm pretty sure I'll feel the same way about Kay as the OP does. I adore Franziska, who is very flawed and very lovable, and I adore the dynamic between Edgeworth and Franziska, so I still think she should've been the partner. Although my opinion may change when I play the game. Who knows?
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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pleadingeyes wrote:
And her reaction to is just scary: she goes from crying into Edgeworth's cravat to grinning from ear to ear in the blink of an eye.
Spoiler:
I actually had this complaint of Maya in T&T. Her mother died (pretty much right in front of her) but the game doesn't give you enough to time to really see her cope with it. The whole "she's forcing herself to be strong," has been used several times in AA when the plot wants you to know, "Yes, she's sad, no, we don't have time to deal with it." By the time I got to Kay I was so used to it, I couldn't complain.
I think part of the reason Edgeworth puts up with Kay is *because* she's so childish. What would be the point of telling her off? She doesn't really mean it when she talks about stealing and he knows it (since she proclaims so many times that's not what Yatagarasu is about - and like someone already pointed out, it's not like Maya wasn't the occasional kepto). In case 3 she was very helpful, and case 5 was all about settling her past issues--I would find it more OOC if Edgeworth told her to buzz off. And why? Because she's a little immature? Personally I find Franziska almost worse, and Edgeworth's been putting up with her for years.
Not to mention...Pearl helped Phoenix investigate the murder in 2-4. And she was 8!
No, young girls shouldn't be investigating murders, but Kay at 17 is hardly the worst offender the series has had. Ultimately I'm not the biggest Kay fan, but not because she's a Sue (I'm not sure how you can call her that when she's a carbon copy of every assistant before her), she's just kind of bland. She doesn't bring anything new to the table. They really need to get off this genki sidekick track.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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I prefer Maya over her, and even Trucy. (I never even liked Trucy to begin with, she's as annoying as they get). But I certainly feel like Kay is a puzzle piece that does not fit into this game at all. It seems forced, imho.
I do like her theme song.
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Kay and Shihna switched places.
Imagine if Kay was under Rou and Sheena was under Edgeworth.
Plus the plot twist in the 5th case would've been even more epic.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Takuya wrote:
One thing I've thought that would've made the game a whole lot more interesting would be if.
Kay and Shihna switched places.
Imagine if Kay was under Rou and Sheena was under Edgeworth.
Plus the plot twist in the 5th case would've been even more epic.
Kay and Shihna switched places.
Imagine if Kay was under Rou and Sheena was under Edgeworth.
Plus the plot twist in the 5th case would've been even more epic.
That would take some monkeying around with the ages, but... I must say, I'm rather fascinated! I can actually see Lang and a somewhat-older Kay as a convincing duo.
Spoiler:
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler:
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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I just saw this exact same topic on the kink meme (copy/pasted I'm sure) so I already read it there. Honestly, I think part of the reason Kay gets the Sue label is because she's a new, female character who tags along with a popular male character. Maya and Trucy don't get this kind of hate; I think if Kay had been part of the series from the beginning, people would have liked her better.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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moonfall wrote:
Honestly, I think part of the reason Kay gets the Sue label is because she's a new, female character who tags along with a popular male character. Maya and Trucy don't get this kind of hate; I think if Kay had been part of the series from the beginning, people would have liked her better.
Not like "female sidekick tagalong" hasn't been the MO for every AA game ever...!
I don't think introducing Kay sooner in the series would help because she'd be trying to fit into exactly the same role Maya was already in. Maybe if she'd shown up sooner in the game itself there'd be more time for her to develop in an interesting way.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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As long as they keep everyone's pairings entirely unconfirmed either way, I think this fandom will be happy.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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EDIT: It also really doesn't help that not including the flashback, AAI takes place within the span of three days.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler: Ending
And as far as Franziska's reaction to her goes I'm actually GLAD that she doesn't take the "Just Whip it" approach with Kay because Franny could use some development in the not whipping department. That, and Franny only really whips people out of the "Gumshoe-Edgeworth-Judge-Opponent in Court" range when they make her really angry...
Spoiler: AAI5
Although I admit I might be a little biased towards Kay. I find girls with ponytails mo~e.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Croik wrote:
moonfall wrote:
I don't think introducing Kay sooner in the series would help because she'd be trying to fit into exactly the same role Maya was already in. Maybe if she'd shown up sooner in the game itself there'd be more time for her to develop in an interesting way.
She also doesn't exactly fit in case 1 or 2. Why would she be on that flight, or why would she follow Edgey into his office in the middle of the night when he isn't going to do anything? If she had been in there, someone would've said, "OMG, look at how they just stuffed her into these cases for no reason!"
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
Even so, she was injected into a series/story that may not have needed it, considering the particular glut that her role has taken on.
...Isn't she kinda important for the overarching plot?
T3h_Waffleman wrote:
And I really think her role in case 4 could have been toned down a lot. I mean, little Trucy only appeared once in the flashback part of 4-4, and that was a similar situation to what was in AAI-4. By trying to make her a central part of that case, she did exhibit some sue tendencies, but again, I think they were kinda cramming her in for character development since she was introduced so late in the game.
She was a "central" part, but it's not like she got too much screen-time. She asks for change and kicks him a few times, and each of those appearances take about 5 seconds. She shows up after cross-examining Gummy, and that's really her only big scene, and it's not like that scene is really that long. Then she shows up again for 5 seconds at the climax. And if by "sue tendences" you mean everyone acting all nice and sweet to her... she's a 10 year old girl. People generally act nicer and sweeter to little kids.
She's really not worse than any other sidekick in the series, IMO. She may not be that deep, but at least she has a story and a connection to main plot. (Okay, Ema is pretty important. But if Maya couldn't channel Mia, she'd have no place in almost every case, and the only things Trucy did was show Polly to perceive, give Phoenix the paper, and help Zak, all of which she could've easily be written out of.)
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Liking her has made me a lot happier than breaking down the flaws in her characterization.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Bad Player wrote:
She also doesn't exactly fit in case 1 or 2. Why would she be on that flight, or why would she follow Edgey into his office in the middle of the night when he isn't going to do anything? If she had been in there, someone would've said, "OMG, look at how they just stuffed her into these cases for no reason!"
Well, the first batch of screenshots did imply that at one point Kay was involved in the airline case. Seeing how the case worked out it makes sense that they cut her, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been *that* hard to come up with a reason.
I think Kay is important because she connects Edgeworth more strongly to the series of cases than if she weren't there; he doesn't have a personal investment in the events like she does. I think it would have been even more effective had she been a stronger character. If they had used an existing character like Ema or Gumshoe I think we'd be left wondering "Why hasn't this come up before?" and have to reevaluate what we thought we knew about them.
Canon has to add characters to continue moving forward, otherwise things stagnate and canon starts stepping on its own toes. Giving Edgeworth someone new to interact with was a good thing, I think maybe Capcom just wasn't confident enough to step outside their formula and go with someone outside the mold.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Croik wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
She also doesn't exactly fit in case 1 or 2. Why would she be on that flight, or why would she follow Edgey into his office in the middle of the night when he isn't going to do anything? If she had been in there, someone would've said, "OMG, look at how they just stuffed her into these cases for no reason!"
Well, the first batch of screenshots did imply that at one point Kay was involved in the airline case. Seeing how the case worked out it makes sense that they cut her, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been *that* hard to come up with a reason.
I think Kay is important because she connects Edgeworth more strongly to the series of cases than if she weren't there; he doesn't have a personal investment in the events like she does. I think it would have been even more effective had she been a stronger character. If they had used an existing character like Ema or Gumshoe I think we'd be left wondering "Why hasn't this come up before?" and have to reevaluate what we thought we knew about them.
Canon has to add characters to continue moving forward, otherwise things stagnate and canon starts stepping on its own toes. Giving Edgeworth someone new to interact with was a good thing, I think maybe Capcom just wasn't confident enough to step outside their formula and go with someone outside the mold.
I agree with the above poster.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler: end
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Croik wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
She also doesn't exactly fit in case 1 or 2. Why would she be on that flight, or why would she follow Edgey into his office in the middle of the night when he isn't going to do anything? If she had been in there, someone would've said, "OMG, look at how they just stuffed her into these cases for no reason!"
Well, the first batch of screenshots did imply that at one point Kay was involved in the airline case. Seeing how the case worked out it makes sense that they cut her, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been *that* hard to come up with a reason.
I think Kay is important because she connects Edgeworth more strongly to the series of cases than if she weren't there; he doesn't have a personal investment in the events like she does. I think it would have been even more effective had she been a stronger character. If they had used an existing character like Ema or Gumshoe I think we'd be left wondering "Why hasn't this come up before?" and have to reevaluate what we thought we knew about them.
Canon has to add characters to continue moving forward, otherwise things stagnate and canon starts stepping on its own toes. Giving Edgeworth someone new to interact with was a good thing, I think maybe Capcom just wasn't confident enough to step outside their formula and go with someone outside the mold.
This is true, actually. Edgeworth's stake isn't like a defense attorney's of games past. He's not representing a client or trying to get someone off the hook. He would just be solving the murders he gets wrapped up in because he's there when they happen and gets caught up in the ensuing order of events.
Spoiler: various points in the game
So Kay does serve a purpose in that she's the thread that exists to bind Edgeworth to the overarching plot as well as provides the grounding for cases 4 and 5 to take place.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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It's sad that they couldn't have made a game about Edgeworth without having to toss in Kay as a gimmick. They're both deserving of more distinct places in the storyline.Just look at Rhoda Teneiro! People love the interaction between her and Edgeworth, and how it plays out over the course of that case. Edgeworth is narratively tied in without being authorially tied down.
I've had to handle similar situations in the development of Super Makoto, actually; some original characters existed only to provide "connection" for the associated canon characters, rather than highlighting their existing relationships, and there was a bit of a row over their inclusion. We ended up cutting some out when they proved to be dead ends, and while Kay Faraday is already a shoehorned connection, I hope she doesn't turn out to be a dead end.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Yaragorm wrote:
Well you do have a very good point there, Kay is quite the Mary Sue.
Eh, I'd still like to debate that a bit.
She's no more out of place in a murder investigation than Maya, Ema, Pearl, or Trucy. Heck, she's older than most of them. It's not like her personality jumps around too much. She's generally perky, and her whole thief thing is pretty consistent. Using Little Thief doesn't exactly make her a "genius programmer", and it's really just a plot device; I don't think you really could make something like that. And she gets sad when stuff about fathers dying/disappearing comes up. And about her going back and forth between smiling and crying in case 4? She knew about her father's death beforehand; she had time to come to terms with it, so let out all her pent-up emotion in Edgey's cravat, then could go back to her previous mental state.
Also, it would've been easy for Edgey to get her out of the crime scene, with all the cops, but she kinda did just save his life. Maybe that had to do with it just a teensy bit? Especially since she was harmless and never actually stole anything.
Everyone may seem to love Kay, but who really does? The people who really interact with her are Edgey and Gummy. As I just said, she saved Edgey's life, and she did have some history with Gummy. And Franzy, whose MO is getting annoyed with everyone, may have loved her, but that was in case 4. When she wasa 10-year-old girl whose father had just died. Heck, another facet of her character is trying to give off an amazing first impression, as shown by always introducing herself as a prodigy... Saying, "Oh, so you are such a strong person!" makes a pretty nice, flattering first impression, doesn't it?
(...Gosh, a bit late in the discussion to reply to the first post)
tl;dr: She's not any worse than anyone else
@MSoB: PW wouldn't have happened without Maya. If she hadn't been born, Mia might not have become a lawyer. (That was one of her reasons, remember?) Besides that, who knows what would've happened in 1-2, and even then, Maya is the one who got 1-3 for him and won 1-4 for him.
Edgeworth was at the courthouse in case 4 on his own. He didn't get thrust into the KG-8 incident because of Kay. She was the driving force that got him re-involved in case 5, but it's not like it revolved around her. Kay dragged Edgey into case 5; Maya dragged Phoenix into 1-2, 1-3, 2-2, 2-3, and (in a way) 2-4. You can use these arguments to say Kay is a Sue, but don't go saying how Maya and everyone else is so much better. (Not that you did... in that post. More of a general thing >_>)
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
So we're admitting that Edgeworth's plot involvement revolves around Kay. Sounds like Sue material to me. It's sad that they couldn't have made a game about Edgeworth without having to toss in Kay as a gimmick. They're both deserving of more distinct places in the storyline.
It's sad that they couldn't have made a game about Edgeworth without having to toss in Kay as a gimmick. They're both deserving of more distinct places in the storyline.This is why I don't like the term Canon Sue. You can't have a game just about Edgeworth, or just about characters we've already seen. You have to add people, and those people have to be important or there's no story. The first game's plot was the same way in that it depended on DL-6, which Phoenix himself had nothing to do with except for the fact that he cared about Edgeworth and the Feys. That connection helped develop him as a character in the process, too.
It's just that in Edgeworth's case, he's pretty much as developed as he's gonna get, so it's hard to imagine any case being more meaningful and personal to him than what he's already been through (short of going full out love interest
). They had to make the cases personal to someone else, and I don't think that's enough for a Sue label.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Sure, her perpetual insistence on the whole "Great Thief" thing was overused, but so was Franziska whipping people in this game--she seemed even more overeager and trigger-happy than she was even in Justice For All. Still, more Franziska was highly appreciated...but back on topic, Kay had her moments--I was actually glad when
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Yesterday, you'd forgiven me. But it'll still be two days 'till I say I'm sorry.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler: Opinions! And minor spoilers?
Spoiler: Some notes on Japanese culture, and MOAR SPOILERS
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Kartoon Kween wrote:
Spoiler: Some notes on Japanese culture, and MOAR SPOILERS
Spoiler:
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
You've been hit by, a smooth prosecutor
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And so what if she appeared in case 3? There wasn't a place for her in the first 2. Don't forget Maya didn't show up until 1-2.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
That's one of my rules.
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Personally I wasn't sure if I would like Kay, but hell, I LOVE her and her quirks (heehe, 'Badger GET'
Spoiler: case 4
Spoiler: all of AAI
Spoiler: Kindof, case 5
tl;dr: Feel free to like her or not, but 'Mary Sue' is reaching a little.
Also, I'm rather shocked and surprised that the Japanese culture thing hasn't been mentioned sooner- it IS a Japanese game after all,
Spoiler:
Also, in terms of how good she is with her little gismo, remember please that she's been actively interested since she was ten years old. In that time, I'm sure- with talent- she would have mastered the Little Thief to quite the degree. You don't need to read too much into it to work that out.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Spoiler:
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
That's one of my rules.
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pleadingeyes wrote:
Maya lost a parent too, and Franziska didn't say two words to *her* about it, even after Pearl confronts Franziska about how mean she WAS to Maya.
Fixed.
In all fairness, after Pearl confronted her, it really got under her skin. Who's to say she didn't seriously regret it privately, when she was told that she was 'nothing but a little girl without her whip'?
Also if you remember, when she first met Maya, Maya was the suspect, so back then all Fran cared about was getting her convicted (to uphold the von Karma name blahblahblah....). She didn't know or care much about her past, and I don't think bringing up the matter of her mother's disappearance (and eventually death) was exactly relevant or tactful.
Whereas with Kay, she knew of her not as a suspect, but as a child of a prosecutor they knew through the case, who was just killed an HOUR AGO at the time. It stands to reason that she would praise her for bravely bottling up quickly, after letting out her anguish. Kay was ten years old after all, for crying out loud. Bear in mind also that Fran was young, and likely was able to empathise with someone a few years her junior. ALSO, note that as soon as she'd left the courtroom to examine another room, she'd started to dismiss her as a meddling child. So she IS abrasive to Kay if not to her face, you just don't seem to notice it. Somehow.
As for saving Edgeworth's life, Edgeworth and guns aren't a good mix, just like with earthquakes. So, he froze. It's likely that he needed a little prod to force him down, and somehow Kay was able to provide that for him.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Cevian wrote:
And as far as Franziska's reaction to her goes I'm actually GLAD that she doesn't take the "Just Whip it" approach with Kay because Franny could use some development in the not whipping department. That, and Franny only really whips people out of the "Gumshoe-Edgeworth-Judge-Opponent in Court" range when they make her really angry...
She doesn't whip women, I noticed.
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
So we're admitting that Edgeworth's plot involvement revolves around Kay. Sounds like Sue material to me. It's sad that they couldn't have made a game about Edgeworth without having to toss in Kay as a gimmick. They're both deserving of more distinct places in the storyline.
It's sad that they couldn't have made a game about Edgeworth without having to toss in Kay as a gimmick. They're both deserving of more distinct places in the storyline.They could have, but then we'd have 5 unrelated cases. At least all of AAI's cases tied in together.
Kartoon Kween wrote:
Spoiler: Opinions! And minor spoilers?
This. Although I must say, part of why I ended up liking Kay is her dynamic with Edgeworth: it reminded me of myself and an old friend that I remember fondly, and I seriously imagined every bit of dialogue between Kay and Edgeworth being things me and my old friend would have said too. So my reasons are mostly personal.
As far as Kay's characterization is concerned, I think it's fantastic. The fact that her behaviour seems "all over the place" fits what she is just right: she's a teenage girl! Not only that, but keep in mind that real people have "all over the place" personalities too! Some people can just be described as unpredictable, right?
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Beautiful_Blue wrote:
I wasn't bothered at all by Franziska's reaction to her. It made sense to me.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
Moo.
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Moo.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Beautiful_Blue wrote:
I wasn't bothered at all by Franziska's reaction to her. It made sense to me.
Spoiler:
Me neither -- or Edgeworth's. We don't see that much of Edgeworth with Maya in the original trilogy, but what we do see I thought fit well with how he reacts to Kay.
And, honestly, I liked her, and didn't find her a Sue -- Mary Sues, in my opinion, have to get things revolving around them. This wasn't. This was revolving around the overarching plot, and Kay was just another character swept up in it. She doesn't do that much, if you compare it against any of the other characters -- she gets a little more silly banter, but that's about it.
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue *Spoiler Warning*
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Bottom line: Having a hyper teenage girl like Kay with Edgeworth doesn't work. It just doesn't. The people who were suggesting the idea of Kay and Shih-na switching places as assistants appealed to me more than the canon version. Edgeworth's mature, more mature than our Nicky Boy. And he deserves a woman, not a loli. </my two cents>
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