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What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright? https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=30379 |
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Author: | Thane [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright? |
I feel like this subforum can use a general thread like this now that the game has come out in Europe. Keep in mind that a thread of this nature will more than likely contain spoilers, so if you live on the other side of the Atlantic or haven't played the game yet for whatever reason, you should consider leaving now. I have just finished the game, and my thoughts are all over the place, and some opinions or thoughts may change after some (much-needed) pondering, but I'll do my best to summarize my general feelings inside this spoiler box. Spoiler: The entire game So those are my brief, general thoughts of the game. What did you think? |
Author: | Ash [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Over a year old, but I don't think my opinion of the game changed very much. The short story: I love the game for the AA parts, both as a AA game as well as 'just' a piece of mystery fiction, but I thought it was a bad Layton game. |
Author: | mai [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
I have so many opinions on Barnham and Darklaw because they both were my favorite characters in the game but they were so poorly handled *sobs*. Spoiler: tl;dr 9/10 would play again EDIT: hot damn that was long |
Author: | Mary Faraday [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
I'm sure that I pretty much mentioned this somewhere on this forum, but I really enjoyed playing that game and I would play it again several times, sadly I do not own the game since I have an old NDS and buying a new one is just too much mainstream Gotta ask my cousin.. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
I've been replaying this game, and while it still is an enjoyable read, I really wish the game was better integrated. It often feels like the moments where I want to return specifically to are generally few and far between, and most of those moments are during the court segments, naturally, though there are a few moments outside the courts that I like to revisit... but they're late in the game, and it's just troublesome since I can't jump to which ever chapter I want. Also, the final trial is pretty long... long enough to be split into three chapters. Thankfully, it's not a continuous stream through the witch trial, with a Layton chapter as an intermediary... but it was the shortest chapter in the game. It comes in without warning too. "Meanwhile, Professor Layton and Luke set off on a daring confrontation with the Storyteller... and oh, look at the time! Sorry, that's it for our quick preview! Get back to court, folks." Takumi, that was a troll move! How could you!? At the very least, I could replay the final moments of the last chapter, where everything is revealed to be a bunch of bull crap, and witness a hilarious second ending. Nick never gets a break from being the butt of everyone's jokes, especially not from Takumi's. Layton, meanwhile, almost always seems to be sitting on a high horse, looking down upon the crowds, and rarely hops off to shake the hands of the peasants below him. I still love this game more than GS5, but GS5 just does the "game" part better more of the time. |
Author: | Chloe [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Only just started playing. But I think it's really fabolous so far. Cant wait for Layton and Phoenix to meet each other. |
Author: | Thane [ Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote: "Meanwhile, Professor Layton and Luke set off on a daring confrontation with the Storyteller... and oh, look at the time! Sorry, that's it for our quick preview! Get back to court, folks." Don't forget that... Spoiler: Quote: Layton, meanwhile, almost always seems to be sitting on a high horse, looking down upon the crowds, and rarely hops off to shake the hands of the peasants below him. I agree. While I liked Layton as a character, he came across as almost sui-ish when he interacted with others. Don't get me wrong, there's certainly room for a more sophisticated, highly intelligent character in the game, it's just that he too often makes everyone look retarded in comparison. |
Author: | Klonoahedgehog [ Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Can anyone link me to the Spoiler: |
Author: | linkenski [ Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Still not done with the game. 17 hours in and I'm at chp 5. now. WOW what a cliffhanger ending to that last chapter. I just wanted to comment on Layton as a character in this game though. I think for the most part Shu Takumi has been good at respecting Layton's core values, but at the same time Layton does lack a certain spark to him, when he isn't written by whoever it was from Level-5 who did most of the Layton games. I've noticed his manner of speech is different from the usual. He starts more than half his sentences with the typical "It would appear" that I grew so tired of in AAI (But it's Takumi, so it's okay this time!! ) and whenever he makes his "gentlemen" lines it's always phrased like so: "That is the duty of every gentleman". It sounds robotic and lacks the smell-of-cosyness and charm that he usually has. But I'm making it sound like I hate it. Don't get me wrong. Layton is still very much Layton, but I would've preffered if Level-5 collaborated more with Takumi when it came to the actual penning of the script in this regard. Luke on the other hand really shines when Takumi writes him. He gets the whole package here. Hilarious remarks, great character-building and if this game wasn't a crossover he'd have gotten genuine character-development for sure. I still think at the end of the day I'll probably still see Ghost Trick as Shu Takumi's best piece of art - but even so, PL vs PWAA really shines as a solid piece of fiction rather than a good Layton game or good Phoenix Wright game IMO. If I had to choose though, I'd say Phoenix Wright has the upper hand in the gameplay department. There's nothing new on Layton's front. Not even what I used to take as a given so far e.g.: No multiple-choice questions where you have to follow Layton's Logic. No Battle of Wits with Layton vs. some random guy from the city or maybe even the Storyteller - all of this feels like a missed opportunity. But even so, even so: I am still very impressed with this game. The Witch Trials blow the Mood Matrix and anything Dual Destinies tried to innovate with courtroom battles WAY out of the water IMO. In fact I've even seen yet another couple of plot-elements in PLvPWAA that has made me go: "Didn't they also do this in Dual Destinies??" Spoiler: Chapter 4 |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Thane wrote: Rubia Silve Ryu wrote: "Meanwhile, Professor Layton and Luke set off on a daring confrontation with the Storyteller... and oh, look at the time! Sorry, that's it for our quick preview! Get back to court, folks." Don't forget that... Spoiler: Spoiler: Quote: Quote: Layton, meanwhile, almost always seems to be sitting on a high horse, looking down upon the crowds, and rarely hops off to shake the hands of the peasants below him. I agree. While I liked Layton as a character, he came across as almost sui-ish when he interacted with others. Don't get me wrong, there's certainly room for a more sophisticated, highly intelligent character in the game, it's just that he too often makes everyone look retarded in comparison. To be fair, a lot of these people are retarded in comparison to even Maya and Luke. But you do have to wonder who would win in a battle of wits: Layton or Edgeworth. Spoiler: Bonus Episode Klonoahedgehog wrote: Can anyone link me to the Spoiler: I haven't found a completed video walkthrough of the game yet, so you'll just have to wait a while. Spoiler: linkenski wrote: It makes me wonder if the guys at Capcom got early copies of PLvPWAA in 2012 since they ended up doing a lot of similar things with Dual Destinies. I doubt it. Takumi was surprised that Eshiro & co. went with Phoenix as a main character, so I don't think either team discussed the games they were working on with each other. |
Author: | Midnight Jasper [ Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Thane [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Midnight Jasper wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Thane wrote: Spoiler: Wait, which one? |
Author: | Thane [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote: Thane wrote: Spoiler: Wait, which one? Compassion. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Nah, that was still there. And unsurprisingly, everyone lived happily ever after, ready in time for the Bonus Episodes. |
Author: | Thane [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote: Nah, that was still there. And unsurprisingly, everyone lived happily ever after, ready in time for the Bonus Episodes. As always, by the way, there's a Yugioh Abridged clip that fits this situation perfectly. Consider me the voice of Kaiba. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
"No matter what, we're in this together~ No matter what, we'll be friends forever~..." Courtesy of Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton in bad karaoke. It will bring you to tears. |
Author: | Meph [ Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Spoiler: Either way, it was a really thrilling conclusion that I really enjoyed. It was the best plot I have ever seen in the AA series with so many twists keeping the momentum of the story. |
Author: | mai [ Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Meph wrote: Spoiler: It's fairly obvious if you've played Layton games before. Spoiler: Spoilers for the first Layton trilogy |
Author: | Midnight Jasper [ Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
mai wrote: Spoiler: Spoilers for the first Layton trilogy Spoiler: Oh, and Spoiler: AA games |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
This game is meant to be an "introduction" to both franchises for people who haven't played one or the other. It certainly plays the nostalgia card a whole lot too - not as much as Dual Destinies does, but it's obviously there. Also, I just realized. This cat isn't Eve. The yellow eyes tell all. |
Author: | Thane [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
So was I the only one surprised by how many things this had in common with Dual Destinies? Spoiler: I'm sure I've forgotten some other obvious ones, but still, I don't know if it's eerie, funny or Mr. Yamazaki just decided to copy and paste things again. |
Author: | Midnight Jasper [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Thane wrote: So was I the only one surprised by how many things this had in common with Dual Destinies? Spoiler: I'm sure I've forgotten some other obvious ones, but still, I don't know if it's eerie, funny or Mr. Yamazaki just decided to copy and paste things again. Spoiler: |
Author: | Meph [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Meph wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Midnight Jasper [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Meph wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: The Mob Testimony stuff was really fun (and had really great music), but I would have liked it more if (1) it had been more subtle when one witness reacted to another's testimony (a bit like the Perceive mechanic), and (2) you had more freedom about when to present testimony that contradicted testimony, because I think there were only 3 or 4 moments where that happened and you were explicitly told to do it. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Midnight Jasper wrote: Spoiler: 19. Just a year older than Espella. |
Author: | Gammalad [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Thane [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Gammalad wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: Update: This should answer your (non-spoiler question) fairly well. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Gammalad wrote: Spoiler: You didn't need to tag your question. :3 Spoiler: |
Author: | Aslandier [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Bolt Storm [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Aslandier wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: Endgame spoilers |
Author: | linkenski [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Thane wrote: So was I the only one surprised by how many things this had in common with Dual Destinies? Spoiler: I'm sure I've forgotten some other obvious ones, but still, I don't know if it's eerie, funny or Mr. Yamazaki just decided to copy and paste things again. I thought this as well. Each case has a lot of things that was recycled in Dual Destinies, which has made my impression of that game even worse now :-( What pained me most to realise this was the fact that this would mean that Yamazaki either got an early copy, being a Capcom-employee or something, or that he ripped all of it off during the first quarter of 2013 just months before DD was about to release. I was always under the impression that the entire plot for every case was something a writer got down before a game was even in production. It's more understandable why DD's plot ended up feeling so dull if they just rushed it to get it done shortly before its month of release. But I dunno, maybe nothing really changed there? Oh well - hence why I've started refering to AA5 as "Ace Attorney - Plagiarism" instead of "Dual Destinies" |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
linkenski wrote: What pained me most to realise this was the fact that this would mean that Yamazaki either got an early copy, being a Capcom-employee or something, or that he ripped all of it off during the first quarter of 2013 just months before DD was about to release. I was always under the impression that the entire plot for every case was something a writer got down before a game was even in production. It's more understandable why DD's plot ended up feeling so dull if they just rushed it to get it done shortly before its month of release. But I dunno, maybe nothing really changed there? Since each team didn't know what the other one was planning (Takumi in one ONM interview explaining he was "surprised" that Nick was planned to take "main protagonist" role again is a good indication), I highly doubt Yamazaki did any "copying" whatsoever. It's true he threw in a lot of "tributes" to the past trilogy, and as a result, they weaken the impression that DD gives as the 5th installment in a mystery series. It's got nothing to do with plagiarism. |
Author: | Reglare [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
linkenski wrote: What pained me most to realise this was the fact that this would mean that Yamazaki either got an early copy, being a Capcom-employee or something, or that he ripped all of it off during the first quarter of 2013 just months before DD was about to release. I was always under the impression that the entire plot for every case was something a writer got down before a game was even in production. It's more understandable why DD's plot ended up feeling so dull if they just rushed it to get it done shortly before its month of release. But I dunno, maybe nothing really changed there? Oh well - hence why I've started refering to AA5 as "Ace Attorney - Plagiarism" instead of "Dual Destinies" So, if that's true, how do you explain with the exact time-frames necessary to copy all of these like with how Athena existed along with numerous concepts existed before PLvsAA released, the amount of time it would need to produce and develop for the game, the amount of time to edit the story since it involved more than just Yamazaki, and the amount of time to make the number of twists that are way different than past AA games? |
Author: | Bolt Storm [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
linkenski wrote: I thought this as well. Each case has a lot of things that was recycled in Dual Destinies, which has made my impression of that game even worse now :-( What pained me most to realise this was the fact that this would mean that Yamazaki either got an early copy, being a Capcom-employee or something, or that he ripped all of it off during the first quarter of 2013 just months before DD was about to release. I was always under the impression that the entire plot for every case was something a writer got down before a game was even in production. It's more understandable why DD's plot ended up feeling so dull if they just rushed it to get it done shortly before its month of release. But I dunno, maybe nothing really changed there? Oh well - hence why I've started refering to AA5 as "Ace Attorney - Plagiarism" instead of "Dual Destinies" Yeah, sorry to pile on you here, but... that's really a baseless accusation. Takumi was working with Level-5 on the story/etc. - if memory serves, Capcom handled art assets for the most part, not anything story related. And it's not like there's tons of cross-pollination even within the same company - projects are confidential for a reason. Do PLvsPW and DD have some similar plot beats or tricks? Yep. Was it a coincidence? Almost certainly. Claiming that Yamazaki waited for PLvsPW to release, then hastily ripped off its ideas is frankly pretty insulting to the man and his team, and not tremendously plausible in terms of production, either. And I say this as someone whose opinion of DD has gone down over time. |
Author: | linkenski [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
Okay I know it's implausible okay, but first of all, The Capcom-guy who handled the art in PLvPWAA was Kazuya Nuri and AA5's art director was Fuse Takuro... I don't know why I had to blurt this out lol, but art has nothing to do with it either I don't think. But considering that Dual Destinies already ripped off a lot of old case-designs, like the whole forbidden chamber thing in case 2 being awfully similar to Kurain Village and its locked room in case 2 of JFA for instance, or 5-3's resemblance of the lyrical murder of 4-3. It can't be a coincidence that he also ended up making so similar plot-points to PLvsPWAA as well. There are just too many similarities for me to believe that. Again I know it sounds far-fetched considering he'd have to do so in a 6-month time-span, but as I see it there's just too many of these "coincidences" EDIT: But I digress, I know it sounds too good to be true. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
linkenski wrote: Again I know it sounds far-fetched considering he'd have to do so in a 6-month time-span, but as I see it there's just too many of these "coincidences" There's a big difference between "plagiarism" and "paying tribute". They aren't simply "coincidences", but still are familiar territory. These vague concepts have been recycled throughout history of mystery fiction. And speaking of "paying tribute", PLvsAA has quite its share of nostalgia for Layton fans. The ending is pretty obvious when you think about it. ...Also, I am now convinced that this game is in propaganda in the war on drugs... no intended spoilers here. |
Author: | Anthony [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
I loved it. But we never did found out who knocked the chef lady out in the freighter............ |
Author: | Monobear Theater [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What did you think of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright |
I haven't played the game because its not out in America yet, but I've seen a full playthrough of it and... I'm gonna be honest... this has been the most disappointing game since AAI, especially coming from DD. Everything just seems like a downgrade from DD. The graphics are dull, the court animations are dull, the mysteries are dull (once again proving that Takumi cannot write a damn mystery to save his life), the court sections and puzzles are too easy and uninspiring (I saw all the contradictions right away, even Dual Destinies made me think and have game overs!), the Layton investigations were so weak (heck, you only zoom in like 3 times in the game, iirc). The main cast (that is, Layton, Luke, Nick and Maya) are the only good characters in the game as all the supporting characters and witnesses are bare-boned in comparison to Dual Destinies' and the plot has the most plotholes since Unwound Future's plot twist. Oh, the plot twist is just so terrible. Spoiler: The plot twist And while I liked the Mass Examinations, I really feel like they weren't fresh enough and felt stale pretty quickly. Nothing innovative was done with them and the ones from the last Witch Trail was tedious to watch, even more because the contradiction were too easy to spot, a fact aggravated by every. single. character. spelling. it. out. to. you. Literally the only thing this game did good was the production values in the music and cutscenes, and while I prefer the cutscenes from this game, the soundtrack is on par with DD for me. I'm sorry if I sound hateful, but after being told by everyone how "much better" this game was than DD, I just feel so disappointed. I was expecting something great and instead I got a pretty looking, nice sounding, plothole ridden mess. |
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