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I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILERS* https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=30944 |
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Author: | TriforceBun [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILERS* |
This topic contains ending spoilers to the whole game, so leave if you haven't beaten it! Spoiler: Endgame |
Author: | Pierre [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Excessive drug use answers a lot of your problems actually xP especially the London stuff. Some of that is explained in the post game extra content. |
Author: | tiger_festival [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TriforceBun wrote: How does Luke operate an invisible crane machine? Here's a better question: How did he get in the crane when he was standing in the crowd a minute ago? |
Author: | AceAssistant [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Yeah... The game (both figuratively AND literally) lost its magic when it took that turn for the worst. Did they even PLAN that to happen beforehand? |
Author: | Misokrattz [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TriforceBun wrote: the Layton-like ending clashes horribly with the Phoenix-like real-world Pretty much this. All what you said (which are totally valid points) are mind blowingly unacceptable for an Ace Attorney game because questions and events are usually neatly wrapped up and explained at the end(or even part of the way) much like a mystery novel. But this kind of build up and explanation at the end of the game are classic Layton game scenarios. These fantastical romantic notions of the surreal being explained by mild science, human intervention, and that touch of extremely stretched reality, are classic Layton. So yeah, that's why I got over the ending and accepted the ending for what it was; this isn't JUST an Ace Attorney game. But through and through, I found this game to be a PERFECT mash-up of the two series' and I was upset that there aren't more of these on the way! |
Author: | TheBlackquillz [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TriforceBun wrote: Spoiler: Endgame Spoiler: Explaining sum stuffs |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
sumguy28 wrote: TriforceBun wrote: How does Luke operate an invisible crane machine? Here's a better question: How did he get in the crane when he was standing in the crowd a minute ago? Now that I look at this picture out of context, it's hilarious. "Don't do it, Espella! Don't you dare moon everyone in the crowd with your antics!" I'm sorry. Please, carry on. |
Author: | AceAssistant [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
I think this turn in writing (i.e., science over magic) came about when they tried to bring Maya and Layton back from the dead... and this is what they came up with. |
Author: | Pierre [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Spoiler: Big ones Think this information was in the character concept art somewhere. Probably for The Great witch Bezella. |
Author: | Ropfa [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Yeah, the ending was silly. Even by Layton standards, it was ridiculously riddled with plotholes and just felt underwhelming. Spoiler: general spoilers about this game and the Layton series It's kind of disappointing, because I actually loved the first 90% of the game and if not for the last 10% would probably put it up there among my top games in either series. |
Author: | Shadowsleuth [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Ropfa wrote: Yeah, the ending was silly. Even by Layton standards, it was ridiculously riddled with plotholes and just felt underwhelming. Spoiler: general spoilers about this game and the Layton series It's kind of disappointing, because I actually loved the first 90% of the game and if not for the last 10% would probably put it up there among my top games in either series. It was explained, but the answer is pretty much what you'd expect. |
Author: | TheDoctor [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
I think my biggest complaint about the whole story is that aside from Aldente, there were no truly evil people in this game. The closest it came was Darklaw, and she was too sympathetic in some ways. And the worst thing the Storyteller did was give his daughter an overly complicated excuse for therapy. |
Author: | Ropfa [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
That's pretty much my thoughts exactly. There was no main villain, and once you found that out there was no tension. A good chunk of the enjoyment in Ace Attorney trials is tension between you and the culprit. There was no tension here, because for the entire epilogue nothing was at stake anymore and the only thing opposing you was Espella's suicidal thoughts (and that was only briefly). Something like that might work in a purely Layton game, where those stories do have a pattern of things turning out where the bad guy was really just misunderstood the whole time. However, when you're in court having a tense showdown, it really ruins the mood to find out that the closest person you have to an antagonist had good intentions in mind for everybody... and then to continue cross-examining that person for a full hour or two. It might have gone over with me better if they'd just made the epilogue more concise. Not even Return of the King dragged out its ending that much. |
Author: | JesusMonroe [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TheDoctor wrote: there were no truly evil people in this game I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension |
Author: | Pierre [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
JesusMonroe wrote: TheDoctor wrote: there were no truly evil people in this game I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension Eh what they did was an accident followed up by a desperate attempt to fix everything. Good intentions, plus nothing massively untoward. Strange as it seems we're told everyone in the town is there by choice, they signed a contractual obligation to forget everything and live there and ultimately no physical harm came to them. |
Author: | JesusMonroe [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Pierre wrote: JesusMonroe wrote: TheDoctor wrote: there were no truly evil people in this game I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension Eh what they did was an accident followed up by a desperate attempt to fix everything. Good intentions, plus nothing massively untoward. Strange as it seems we're told everyone in the town is there by choice, they signed a contractual obligation to forget everything and live there and ultimately no physical harm came to them. People like Jean likely didn't sign anything, though (and if she did, she was too young to agree to it). She attempted suicide and tried to kill someone during the experiment. Plus, people like Kira are definitely falling on psychologically hard times, as well as any other witch who had to "die" and become a shade They had good intentions but so did Gant. Sure, their crimes aren't nearly as terrible, but it just bothered me how Newton was portrayed as a paragon of goodness |
Author: | TheDoctor [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
I'll give you the fact that the witch trials were overly traumatic for those who were chosen to be the culprits. Why burn the "witches" at the stake? Why not just perform an "exorcism" or something? (obviously, because there would be no tension in the game otherwise, but that's besides the point). For that matter, what's up with the ridiculous arbitrary rule that only women can be witches? Why even bother making the distinction? I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist). |
Author: | Pierre [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TheDoctor wrote: I'll give you the fact that the witch trials were overly traumatic for those who were chosen to be the culprits. Why burn the "witches" at the stake? Why not just perform an "exorcism" or something? (obviously, because there would be no tension in the game otherwise, but that's besides the point). For that matter, what's up with the ridiculous arbitrary rule that only women can be witches? Why even bother making the distinction? I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist). Yeah...that bothered me a fair bit. I mean I like a little bit of effort in cases but because of that rule the second case becomes terribly obvious...the third case as well actually seemed that way once you figure out they are trying to play you that way. Yeah her name is "Kira" I can buy that's an obvious clue. She's also the only 'seriously drawn' female in the entire cast and (while perhaps I missed her) she's the only female you didn't meet and chat with in the streets beforehand. Then I figure "Huh that was super obvious, the gender limitation was also kind of weak". Then in comes Jean...obviously a woman with a unisex name pretending to be a man and I'm like "You think this is going to be a plot twist? Really?" |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
TheDoctor wrote: I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist). But then it wouldn't have been a Layton game. With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is. Not saying that the AA games are that realistic in the first place, but they have much of their foundation grounded very well. If anything, I think we just had a little too much of Layton in this game and not enough of Phoenix, even though the trials were definitely the star of the game. Pierre wrote: Yeah...that bothered me a fair bit. I mean I like a little bit of effort in cases but because of that rule the second case becomes terribly obvious...the third case as well actually seemed that way once you figure out they are trying to play you that way. Yeah her name is "Kira" I can buy that's an obvious clue. She's also the only 'seriously drawn' female in the entire cast and (while perhaps I missed her) she's the only female you didn't meet and chat with in the streets beforehand. Then I figure "Huh that was super obvious, the gender limitation was also kind of weak". Then in comes Jean...obviously a woman with a unisex name pretending to be a man and I'm like "You think this is going to be a plot twist? Really?" The only culprit that wasn't obvious was in the last one, but the last trial has so many other problems anyway. |
Author: | JesusMonroe [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
I hope I wasn't the only one who chose the cat as the bell-ringer when the time came |
Author: | TheBlackquillz [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote: With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is. Actually, I must say that the only Layton games that really kinda made sense were Last Specter and Miracle Mask. Curious Village didn't make sense at all because... Spoiler: Do I really need a spoiler...? Anyway, the way this relates to PLvsPWAA is that it kinda went OVERBOARD with that absurdity there at the end. Compared to the other Layton games, it indeed seems absolutely inconcievalable. Edit: Also... Pierre wrote: Spoiler: Big ones Think this information was in the character concept art somewhere. Probably for The Great witch Bezella. Yes, it was. I'll quote the whole thing: Spoiler: Concept Art 9: Great Witch |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
JesusMonroe wrote: I hope I wasn't the only one who chose the cat as the bell-ringer when the time came I swear the cat was the most suspicious of all. TheBlackquillz wrote: Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote: With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is. Actually, I must say that the only Layton games that really kinda made sense were Last Specter and Miracle Mask. Curious Village didn't make sense at all because... Spoiler: Do I really need a spoiler...? Anyway, the way this relates to PLvsPWAA is that it kinda went OVERBOARD with that absurdity there at the end. Compared to the other Layton games, it indeed seems absolutely inconcievalable. Yeah, but at least the first game at least tried to lampshade the fact that everyone gave puzzles for no real reason. Besides, the purpose of that "curious village" was an endearing one. Here, it feels like old news. Like, Takumi wanted to write something really cool, but ended up writing a PLvsAA fanfic, except it's official. Anyway, it's been a while since I've last played any of the Layton games, so excuse me for missing some details. But I have to disagree on the "final boss" puzzles of Last Specter. Thems was kooky. I'll give you Miracle Mask, though. |
Author: | Klonoahedgehog [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote: TheDoctor wrote: I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist). But then it wouldn't have been a Layton game. With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is. This is pretty much how i felt about the whole thing. |
Author: | TriforceBun [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that had an issue with the end sequence (and the last trial in general, really); I had browsed several talkback threads here and it seemed that almost everyone preferred PLvsPWAA to Dual Destinies. But as a longtime PW fan, I couldn't agree at all. I just had way too many issues with the "world" of Vs, and while some of the stories would've been quite nice if left alone (Jean's backstory was perhaps the best in the game), the endgame twist kinda reveals everything the game has been building up to basically be a giant facade. It almost made me feel like I'd just been kinda wasting my time. I also definitely agree that the stakes didn't seem all that high during the last trial, since it was mainly just the Storyteller and Darklaw revealing stuff over and over. There was no love-to-hate villain or even (what could be just as effective) an endearingly-sympathetic villain like in T&T. Just someone really misguided who wasn't malicious enough to want to take down, but made way too many boneheaded decisions to be sympathetic. |
Author: | Pierre [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Eh it beats dual destinies for features if you ask me. I love the setting and how it works (the entire audience having no clue what logic is floored me) and some things just seem so refined. Having villainous breakdowns voiced? Its awesome. Put it in the main series. Mob trials? Tonnes of fun. Awesome dynamic camera angles? Great. These are the places where I feel it trumps Ace Attorney 5. |
Author: | TriforceBun [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
I like the gameplay diversity of the multiple witnesses, but I thought it flattened the characters out too much. Like, instead of a single witness being happy, then angry, then quirky, etc all during a single testimony, you have The Happy One, The Angry One, The Quirky One all kind of spread out through different characters, so none of them really get a chance to develop (with the exception of the villains, I suppose). I mean, characters like Birdly and Mary and Knightle don't compare to Adrian or Maggey or even silly characters like Moe and Oldbag (who all get some depth thanks to the extra time spent with them). Maybe this issue could've been rectified with more of being able to talk to these witnesses during investigation sequences, but most of those just involved solving puzzles rather than learning about backstories. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
That's a recurring issue in the Layton games, since they rarely develop side characters and focus entirely on the main cast. It's a reasonable shift of focus, but then it just means everyone has puzzles for no reason. |
Author: | Nurio [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Pierre wrote: Eh it beats dual destinies for features if you ask me. I love the setting and how it works (the entire audience having no clue what logic is floored me) and some things just seem so refined. Having villainous breakdowns voiced? Its awesome. Put it in the main series. Mob trials? Tonnes of fun. Awesome dynamic camera angles? Great. These are the places where I feel it trumps Ace Attorney 5. Only under the condition that the voices are good. Like they were in PLvsAA. But not like DD. *recalls Hugh screaming* *shudder* |
Author: | Ropfa [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote: I swear the cat was the most suspicious of all. For the longest time, I thought the cat would end up being the witch in disguise, and she was an animagus or something. Either that or she was Darklaw's familiar. I thought that she was mind controlling Espella whenever she went into a trance and her eyes turned blue. Then the cat walked right across the witness stand during the final trial while Espella was testifying and I thought "Well, duh. This has to be it. Why else would they be shoving the cat in our face right now?" And I wouldn't mind more voiced breakdowns if they were like Kira's. That stuff was golden. |
Author: | TheDoctor [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
That cat was the most ridiculous red herring in the history of these series. |
Author: | MBr [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Spoiler: |
Author: | linkenski [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
If it's true that both Takumi and Hino wrote the story, then I've always had a nasty suspicion that Hino had a major part in the endgame. That or it's the typical Takumi ending fumble that was also a problem in AJAA. I think maybe he's gotten sloppy, so prove me wrong, DGS! On the note of this vs AA5: This game actually makes me laugh at least once in every chapter. Dual Destinies made me laugh maybe three times in total and I never felt like I was dozing off because of boring writing in this game. Quite the opposite, it intrigued me all the way through, but the ending did make me slightly disappointed. |
Author: | TheBlackquillz [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
MBr wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: I think I can answer a few of those... |
Author: | Miles Morales [ Mon May 04, 2015 1:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
The ending was lame but remember this is a cross over game and most cross overs I've seen are usually dumb this one is no exception |
Author: | Cesar Zero [ Mon May 04, 2015 8:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
So since crossovers usually suck it's jutified that this one did,even though the rest of the game was decent? |
Author: | TheBlackquillz [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
(This thread is just a month old, but if someone thinks that it's necro, sorry for necro-posting) So I think I just might have figured out the whole issue behind the fact that the machines were 1) not making shadows and 2) not being ran into. Spoiler: At the very very end |
Author: | MBr [ Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Bringing this back as I have just beaten the game again. Let's have a look: Spoiler: |
Author: | Nurio [ Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Welcome to Layton games. Professor Layton always figures things out well before he realistically should be able to, simply "because he's so smart". |
Author: | Captain Zvarri [ Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Yeah, this ending's definitely kooky. To me, it seemed very Scooby-Doo-esque in that the explanations they have for earlier supernatural occurrences don't really add up most of the time (most likely because both Scooby-Doo and this game had their endings thought up after the fact). But from what I hear, this is pretty typical stuff for the Professor Layton series, so I kinda let it slide. |
Author: | Thunder84 [ Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOIL |
Just replayed this game, and I definitely agree with the ending being completely stupid. It's ridiculous, even for Layton standards. The worst offender for me was Spoiler: |
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