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Re: Thoughts on AAI2 (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Just finished Case 5 and figured I'd give my general thoughts on the whole game. Dunno if a spoiler warning is warranted here but regardless:

Spoiler:
I dunno man, there's something about this game that's making me want to like it, but when you consider everything it's still at the bottom of the franchise for me above AAI (and also DD when I'm in a good mood). I probably would've liked it a hell of a lot more if AAI didn't exist in the first place. Very few of the previous characters were given any real development and focused solely on the new characters (just like DD hmmm I wonder what they both have in common. If this had been a standalone game and gave all the characters some reasonable development and backstory this game could've been really good. I'll list a few of my major gripes:

- Pointless characters and cameos. Lots of them. Lotta, Larry, EMA, Sahwit, Regina, Will and Penny (if you're going for a cameo pick one or the other not both) and even Kay, who literally only existed for Little Thief and to provide someone for Edgeworth to defend in Case 4. I'm absolutely all for cameos if they're either a) EXTREMELY minor roles (eg. Payne in Case 1 and the Delites in Case 3) or b) given enough material to expand on their characters that were introduced in the previous games. AAI2 had none of those. Most of the cameos in AAI2, aside from the ones I mentioned, could be replaced with entirely new characters and nothing would have changed. This is a recurring problem in Eshiro's games (Pearl in DD particularly comes to mind) and I hope this is resolved in the next game because otherwise it just seems like an excuse not to design new characters.

- Logic Chess. The most boring, easiest "gimmick" in the entire franchise. Yes, even easier than the Mood Matrix, which had NO penalties whatsoever. It's simply : look for a particular sprite, wait and see, find a different sprite, present phrase. Rinse and repeat.

- Writing. Yes, I played the unofficial translation (they did a fantastic job btw) but the problem is also present in the japanese version.
Edgeworth : Ngh... Is this all I can do?
Kay : Edgeworth! Is this all we can do?
Edgeworth : (Is there nothing else I can do?)
Happens waaaaaaay too often. Similarly, Edgeworth's main character dilemma is brought up too many times to the point where it becomes almost unbearable. It's a great arc to explore but a bit more subtlety would've been nice.

- The culprits fessed up too early. Applies to cases 3 and 4 mostly. Small gripe but whatever.

- Damn Ray was so annoying...

And now on to the good stuff :

- New characters. I gotta say, pretty much every moment with Sebastian in Case 5 was some of the best in the whole series. Expertly written character. I liked Justine and John as well. Other favourites include Kate, Knightley, Huang and Simon. Was pleasantly surprised since I didn't like most of the people in AAI.

- Gregory and Young Ray are potentially the best duo in the series, no joke.

- Case 5 was one of the best in the series. Short and sweet, but at the same time the mystery was intriguing and it tied all of the loose ends together. Plus the final villain was great.

- Interconnected story.

- Music was really good. Not as good as T&T or AJ (my personal favourites) but definitely up there. The search themes had some really cool hooks.


That's pretty much it. I'll add some more points later if I think of any but that's the general gist of it. Overall I don't regret playing it but I was expecting a bit more. So in the end : T&T > AJ > JFA > PW = DD > AAI2 > AAI2

As a side note, I just realised that if we erased AAI completely from the timeline, AAI2 would pretty much be the same game. Aside from meeting Kay I guess, absolutely nothing from the first game impacted the second one. Huh.
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Neeeeeeeeeecropost

I actually finished the game a few months back but never posted my impressions.

My thoughts will likely be scattered, alternating between general impressions and case-specific things. Or not. I can't decide yet.

Spoiler: ramble, ramble, ramble
First off, I think these GK games would have worked a lot better had they removed the "path of a defense attorney" question, moved back the date two years, and repackaged it as "Edgeworth's Missing Year." Even in this game, I can still see attempts to undo Edgeworth's character development and build it back up, or mold him into Phoenix 2.0 (OMG! I have to SAVE people! lol wut. No you don't. You got on Phoenix's case in 2-4 for that very reason).

I also didn't care for the moments where Edgeworth was entirely too trusting of a meek character, a little too quick to "believe in" someone like a defense attorney (Phoenix) would. Yes, one could argue that it's part of the dilemma Edgeworth has in this game, but it still feels like that naïveté was created for the sake of bringing about that dilemma, instead of letting the dilemma happen for some other natural reason.

That said, GK2 overall was an improvement over GK1.

The story at least seemed to tie together much better. It wasn't just in the obligatory "Hey let's play as X in the Y-years-ago" case. Everybody a role to play, and with the exception of a couple of cameos, it didn't feel as forced. I admit I had my doubts in the first case... (Gourd Lake of all places, and Shelly de Killer of all people?) But I was glad to see any shelved portions of the story returning in latter cases, and old clues getting accounted for. What seemed like an ordinary(?!) assassination attempt would actually be extremely relevant to not one, but two past cases.

I found myself more invested in the new characters than the previous game. Even the ones that turned out to be utter cretins. I laughed when Ray Shields got more than what he bargained for while seeking hugs from the prison warden, Patricia Roland. And for a moment, I sympathized with Roland for feeling threatened, only to realize later she wasn't half as innocent as she'd made herself out to be. I had a thousand eyerolls for the inept Sebastian Debeste, and Justine Courtney, the judge who seemed to encourage his involvement in EV.ER.Y.THING. And then the little bastard suckerpunched me right in the damn feels. It was good to see him grow up and become a respectable person. At first, I worried that he was there just to make Edgeworth look smart by comparison (which is completely unnecessary), but I eventually saw that there was more to it than that. And I was relieved to see that there was more going on with Courtney, and that her true objective didn't involve squashing Edgeworth like a bug.

Although not a "new" character, I did enjoy playing as Gregory. They played the Gregory-Miles comparison a bit too much, especially in the interactions with certain characters (Delicia Scones). But it was kind of nice. And I'm not just saying that because Gregory is also smoking hot. I also liked getting a glimpse of how cases were handled before the 3 day trial system was implemented. (And this is random, but speaking of case 3, Kate (and Kay) cracked me up with her singing when irrelevant evidence was presented.)

I liked that Horace Knightley and Simon Keyes were not just random people, but players in the case that would give Manfred von Karma his first penalty. Also, identifying Blaise Debeste as the chief prosecutor responsible for giving von Karma the penalty :karma-scream:

Can't remember if I'd spoiled Keyes for myself since it's been a long time, but IMO he seemed a little too sweet in case 2, and Edgeworth and Kay were a bit too eager to believe in his innocence. I'd dropped my suspicions for a while but by the 5th case they were back. After all, his was the only "known" profile that fit the acolyte, when you consider a kid that would have been the appropriate age in both the IS-7 and SS-5 incidents. Think I was more surprised by him being buddies with Dogen, and being the kid who set the fire, than I was by him being Gustavia's son.

Speaking of villains, were Gustavia and Blaise in the running for Japanifornia's shittiest dad? Thank goodness for men like Gregory and Jeff (well, technically the dude did take in Kate).

Overall, the cameos were good, though I still wasn't feeling Ema's and Larry's all that much. Granted, Kay coming back at all felt a little forced, but at least they tried to do something with it. Some people don't care for the part where Edgeworth turns in his badge, but to be honest, that felt like one of the few moments he was actually in character. It seemed like something Edgeworth "would" do, or would eventually, because his quest for the truth is more important than from what side he chooses to pursue it. Same for when Courtney kept threatening to take away his badge and he was like "dude, really, I don't give a shit. You won't put a stop to my goals."

Actually, I guess there is one thing left unaccounted for, or perhaps I just wasn't paying attention. Was it ever revealed how Dogen and (Miles) Edgeworth were acquainted? I assumed it was in a previous case, but I don't think that was made clear.

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Spoiler:
The point of GK2 (which did it a hell of a lot better than GK1 did) was develop Edgeworth into a synthesis of Gregory and Manfred. I think that given his past (since he wanted to be a defense attorney at first), making him a ruthless prosecutor would be ignoring that. Nonetheless, being a prosecutor is Miles's calling. I liked the answer he gave at the end of the game, where he said that he wanted to "save people as a prosecutor," using Keyes as an example.
I second your Edgeworth's missing year. You're talking about the gap between the first and second games, right? Because I think that it hugely significant to Edgeworth's character development, and we don't get to see any of it.
And also, Edgeworth's acquaintance with Dogen is never explained outside of him convicting him.

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Jean Descole wrote:
Actually, I guess there is one thing left unaccounted for, or perhaps I just wasn't paying attention. Was it ever revealed how Dogen and (Miles) Edgeworth were acquainted? I assumed it was in a previous case, but I don't think that was made clear.

I think Edgey put Dogen away during his "demon prosecutor" years.
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MBr wrote:
Spoiler:
The point of GK2 (which did it a hell of a lot better than GK1 did) was develop Edgeworth into a synthesis of Gregory and Manfred. I think that given his past (since he wanted to be a defense attorney at first), making him a ruthless prosecutor would be ignoring that. Nonetheless, being a prosecutor is Miles's calling. I liked the answer he gave at the end of the game, where he said that he wanted to "save people as a prosecutor," using Keyes as an example.
I second your Edgeworth's missing year. You're talking about the gap between the first and second games, right? Because I think that it hugely significant to Edgeworth's character development, and we don't get to see any of it.
And also, Edgeworth's acquaintance with Dogen is never explained outside of him convicting him.


Spoiler:
Well, I get that they were trying to push him in Gregory's direction, while not letting him lose what he'd learned as a pupil of von Karma. I didn't mind that much, but his desire to save people as a prosecutor only worked if you ignored JFA and T&T. He lectured Phoenix in 2-4 for wanting to save clients, so it doesn't make sense that he would turn around and start saying the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I commend the writers for trying to do something with Edgeworth's character. He doesn't have to be a ruthless prosecutor. He just needs to be more... Edgeworth. You know, aware of a situation and willing to help, giving a damn but not being so overly emotionally involved. If they wanted to change him a little, I don't think that was the way to go about it.

When I say "Missing Year," I am referring to his journey between AA and JFA. Of course, a game like that would require dropping the "defense attorney" question, but the character development would be more believable, because at that point, Edgeworth really is confused about his path. Enough to fake a suicide for a good 13 months. At least, that's how I see it.

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Jean Descole wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, I get that they were trying to push him in Gregory's direction, while not letting him lose what he'd learned as a pupil of von Karma. I didn't mind that much, but his desire to save people as a prosecutor only worked if you ignored JFA and T&T. He lectured Phoenix in 2-4 for wanting to save clients, so it doesn't make sense that he would turn around and start saying the same thing.

Spoiler:
Well, you could say that he was "saving people as a prosecutor" in 2-4. He saved Adrian (while being a huge dick to her), helped to save Maya, etc.

What he meant by "saving people as a prosecutor" isn't really the same as believing in a client or anything as much as it's being morally straight. A lot of Simon's motive was a result of Bansai's corruption and the warden's failed conviction for her involvement in the SS-5 Incident. Simon wouldn't have gone through that suffering if a just prosecutor were there in Bansai's stead
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Jean Descole wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, I get that they were trying to push him in Gregory's direction, while not letting him lose what he'd learned as a pupil of von Karma. I didn't mind that much, but his desire to save people as a prosecutor only worked if you ignored JFA and T&T. He lectured Phoenix in 2-4 for wanting to save clients, so it doesn't make sense that he would turn around and start saying the same thing.

Spoiler:
Well, you could say that he was "saving people as a prosecutor" in 2-4. He saved Adrian (while being a huge dick to her), helped to save Maya, etc.

What he meant by "saving people as a prosecutor" isn't really the same as believing in a client or anything as much as it's being morally straight. A lot of Simon's motive was a result of Bansai's corruption and the warden's failed conviction for her involvement in the SS-5 Incident. Simon wouldn't have gone through that suffering if a just prosecutor were there in Bansai's stead


Spoiler:
Yes, I am aware he was already saving people as a prosecutor, but there is a distinction- helping someone along the way vs making that your main objective. Edgeworth has always been of the former group, with Phoenix the latter.

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Well...
Spoiler:
In case 2, he had to assist Shigaraki (a defense attorney) in order to continue his investigation.

In case 3, he was continuing his father's (a defense attorney's) legacy.

And in case 4, the prime suspect was Kay, who's a personal friend.

So for the most part, I do think he has some justification for what he does. Heck, when Souta tried to pull the "weren't you supposed to be defending me?" card at the beginning of the confrontation in case 5, Edgey just goes "Yeah, no."

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Spoiler:
I finished the game about two weeks ago now, and while it was my favourite Ace Attorney as I was playing it the more I look back on it the more problems I have.

I will start by saying I think it’s an improvement in every conceivable way over AAI1: The story is tighter and connects better from case to case, the character development is deeper, the new characters are more likable, no case overstayed it's welcome like I-3 and especially I-5 did, Edgeworth's reason for defending people and defying authority felt more reasonable and in character, much more satisfying villains/breakdowns/final boss overall, while there were even more references to past games they didn't (for the most part) feel as shoehorned in, and Sebastian and Courtney are both gunning for my all-time favourite AA character. I think it's relatively easy to make a character you initially like then later despise, but making a character you loathe to the very core when you first see them, then having them end up being the only character you're actually invested in emotionally and rooting for, that's hard. And that's exactly who Sebastian and Justine were to me. By the end of case 5 I could give a crap if Edgeworth was an attorney or not, but Goddammit Sebastian you go out there and be the best damn prosecutor Los Tokyo Angeles has ever seen!

There were only two immediate downsides for me, things that bothered me as soon as I saw them, and those were the lack of difficulty and all the incredibly unnecessary cameos. The punishment for wrong answers was so little it may as well not have existed, and I can't count the number of times I figured out the contradiction 2 testimonies in advance then had to sit through Edgeworth's monologues about truth for half an hour before getting on with it. Nicole could’ve done everything Lotta did and if they wanted to reference Lotta as her mentor they could have without bringing her into the game. Will Powers and Penny Nichols should’ve been referenced on the film lot but didn’t need full sprite sets. Regina I’m indifferent about, because at least she sorta played a part in her cases and allowed for the awesome setting for the final confrontation to exist. Tyrell Badd, didn’t really do anything and I feel like his character ran it’s full course in AAI1. Larry is the only cameo I have the least issues with but I gotta admit, he actually seemed a little better adjusted and was moving on with his life so Edgeworth just came off like an ass for constantly dismissing him.

But all that's forgivable, honestly. I knew there were a bunch of cameos before I even began so I was prepared, and no matter how easy I thought it was it wasn't nearly as hand-holding as Dual Destinies was (which is my favourite, even in spite of this). What's killing the game for me is that, now that I'm out of the raw emotion of each individual scene, there's so much that just does not make sense. How the hell did Simon manage to crush a man to death with just the basket of hot air balloon? While he was armed, no less! Those things are slow-moving and impossible to steer. How in the hell did Simon, an otherwise meticulous and genius planner, not think to wipe down the basket in the two days following the murder. And for how totally inept his persona was why did the Berry Big Circus allow him to be in charge of so many important things? Why did Dane Gustavia even come back for Dover's body if he thought the statute of limitations was up and he was in the clear? How does literally anything in that prison work. Did nobody foresee the conflict of interests of giving the PIC absolute power and no oversight? How did Knightley learn that Dover was his dad without Simon ever knowing or figuring out that his dad was Gustavia? Also, "The only logical answer is that this building has a secret 51st floor!" Really, Edgeworth? A secret floor is a more natural and logical conclusion than saying maybe the investigators were on the 49th floor for something?

Worse than that, they wasted a lot of potential. I'm so sad there was no follow-up on Sirhan Dogen's extortion of Patricia. There's no real follow-up or retribution for Sirhan Dogen for anything. Logic Chess was really cool maybe twice, against Blaise and Sebastian DeBeste, but the game spent too long ramping up the challenge on it so every other Chess match was so simple I seriously didn't even read the text half the time. No matter how dramatic and plot-important the case, it's a huge disappointment not getting to see Gregory Edgeworth actually getting and solving a case without it getting split into flashback mini-chapters. He's such a badass but I feel like I barely got to have fun with him. Most egregiously, they were setting up the final confrontation to be a serious and bone-chilling question about how to convict a person who incited murder if he never technically directly incited it, and if such a person is legally responsible at all. Then they just made him a run of the mill murderer and all ambiguity and additional challenge is lost, you just convict him like anyone else.

All this said, I still love the game, even more than I thought I would when I started. AAI is my least favourite of any Ace Attorney game, so my expectations were low. I got way more invested and involved in the plot and these characters than I have nearly any other Ace Attorney game, and that was it's saving grace; I was so involved in it my suspension of disbelief was heightened to new levels. This post looks really bad, because it's one paragraph of praise and 75% complaints, so I want to emphasize I really like this game, and I would recommend it to any Ace Attorney fan. When it does good, it does really good. It's just that looking back I realize nearly every bit of praise I can give it has to come with an addendum.
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Spoiler: In Response To The Things That Don't Make Sense
-A lot of people have complained about the hot air balloon descent but I think people underestimate how fast these things can go down. If you cut off the air immediately, it'll go down FAST. Would the body double have enough time to dodge? Maybe, but he didn't know the "witness" was trying to kill him (and the game made a point of portraying the body double as a buffoon anyway)

-Simon DID wipe down the basket (no blood on it after all) but pollen traces that he couldn't see remained. The pollen traces that they get at the end were found at a forensic level

-He was in charge of so many things because Regina just overworked him. And while his persona was inept, he did his job well so...

-Gustavia went back for the body because he still didn't want his reputation to be ruined since he was now the world's greatest confectioner (he mentions this in his final testimony). He might get away with the crime legally but he doesn't want the stain of murder on him

-Don't really know regarding the prison/PIC

-Knightley received Dover's inheritance which included the chess set and the PH ring. Simon thought Dover was his father because he lost his memory and since HE was the one being tied up on the order of Knightley's father, he assumed that his own father must be the victim of IS-7 and Knightley's must be the killer (because one wouldn't think the victim was the one who had children locked into a frozen car)

-They knew the investigators were in the PIC room--the 50th floor
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler: In Response To The Things That Don't Make Sense
-A lot of people have complained about the hot air balloon descent but I think people underestimate how fast these things can go down. If you cut off the air immediately, it'll go down FAST. Would the body double have enough time to dodge? Maybe, but he didn't know the "witness" was trying to kill him (and the game made a point of portraying the body double as a buffoon anyway)

-Simon DID wipe down the basket (no blood on it after all) but pollen traces that he couldn't see remained. The pollen traces that they get at the end were found at a forensic level

-He was in charge of so many things because Regina just overworked him. And while his persona was inept, he did his job well so...

-Gustavia went back for the body because he still didn't want his reputation to be ruined since he was now the world's greatest confectioner (he mentions this in his final testimony). He might get away with the crime legally but he doesn't want the stain of murder on him

-Don't really know regarding the prison/PIC

-Knightley received Dover's inheritance which included the chess set and the PH ring. Simon thought Dover was his father because he lost his memory and since HE was the one being tied up on the order of Knightley's father, he assumed that his own father must be the victim of IS-7 and Knightley's must be the killer (because one wouldn't think the victim was the one who had children locked into a frozen car)

-They knew the investigators were in the PIC room--the 50th floor


Spoiler: RE: Your response
-I'm sorry I just can't accept that. My problem is less with the speed of descent and more with the fact that, even landing directly on top of the guy, only the weight of the basket and it's contents would actually be pushing down on the guy. Most of the weight of the balloon is in the balloon itself, and unless Simon could instantly deflate the balloon and make sure the entire apparatus fell squarely on the victim there's no way a wicker basket and a beanpole could crush a man. My personal theory, as it's the only way I can make sense of it, is the "president" fainted from fright after firing the gun (fitting for his personality) and Simon either landed on the body several times or simply roughhoused the body during transportation to and from the scene.

-The "president" didn't bleed, he was crushed to death. If it was only the pollen traces on there I can see how Simon may have missed them, but he left a freaking bullet smushed into the underside of the balloon. That alone tells me he didn't check the bottom of the basket.

-I can accept this. The animal trainer division was only 2 people, I just think it's pretty short-sighted of them.

-If he didn't try to recover the body he would never possibly have been implicated for the murder. The best way to save his reputation would've been to play dumb. Finding the body frozen in a sculpture that was missing and stored in Jeff Master's freezer would only further implicate the guy they already convicted.

-Oversight seems to be a recurring problem in the law in the AA universe, so I shouldn't really be surprised, it just bugs me.

-Knightley and Simon are supposed to be best friends, in relatively close contact right up until Knightley dies. I understand how Simon lost his memories and convinced himself Dover was his dad, but I find it hard to believe Horace never mentioned "Hey the police told me they found out who my dad is and he was a sculptor who got murdered."

-All they knew was what the tv told them, but there's no reason they have to take that at face value. I submit that it's perfectly reasonable to assume the investigation team thought there was something in another part of the building to examine, and the media weren't told because why should they be. Secret floors are basically impossible to keep secret unless they're subbasements, because you can see how many floors a building has from the outside.
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Splodey_Goat wrote:
Spoiler: RE: Your response
-I'm sorry I just can't accept that. My problem is less with the speed of descent and more with the fact that, even landing directly on top of the guy, only the weight of the basket and it's contents would actually be pushing down on the guy. Most of the weight of the balloon is in the balloon itself, and unless Simon could instantly deflate the balloon and make sure the entire apparatus fell squarely on the victim there's no way a wicker basket and a beanpole could crush a man. My personal theory, as it's the only way I can make sense of it, is the "president" fainted from fright after firing the gun (fitting for his personality) and Simon either landed on the body several times or simply roughhoused the body during transportation to and from the scene.
The basket was metallic (hence the clank when the bullet hits it). I actually believe they mention the weight of it at some point. I'll try to find it if need be but I do believe I remember them mentioning it was a very heavy basket

-The "president" didn't bleed, he was crushed to death. If it was only the pollen traces on there I can see how Simon may have missed them, but he left a freaking bullet smushed into the underside of the balloon. That alone tells me he didn't check the bottom of the basket.
Well if there was no blood on the body then why bother wiping the underside at all? And if we want to believe that he did in fact check the underside, we could simply say that he was unable to remove the bullet (or at least he would've at a later more convenient time with the right equipment). After all, it's not like a bullet connected him to the incident at all

-If he didn't try to recover the body he would never possibly have been implicated for the murder. The best way to save his reputation would've been to play dumb. Finding the body frozen in a sculpture that was missing and stored in Jeff Master's freezer would only further implicate the guy they already convicted
If they found the body then the case would've been reopened and everybody's alibis would be reexamined, coming to the obvious conclusion that he was in fact the killer. Hell, even an examination of the sculpture would've fucked him over since his DNA was on it.

The best way to save his reputation wouldn't have been to play dumb. Think about it this way:

1. If Gustavia doesn't recover the body, it will be found. If the body is found, he will probably be revealed as the killer (and keep in mind that whether or not he's revealed as the killer is out of his control)

2. If Gustavia tries to recover the body, he will either get away with it or be caught. If he's caught, he will be revealed as the killer

So essentially, Gustavia is in a situation where has nothing to lose but everything to gain. The risk of moving the body is worth it because the risk of not moving the body is more out of his control


-Knightley and Simon are supposed to be best friends, in relatively close contact right up until Knightley dies. I understand how Simon lost his memories and convinced himself Dover was his dad, but I find it hard to believe Horace never mentioned "Hey the police told me they found out who my dad is and he was a sculptor who got murdered."
I don't think they met up again until after the orphanage? I could be wrong. But my interpretation was that Knightley lost his memory of Simon but not the other way around. When they meet again, it's Knightley's "first time" meeting Simon. Point is, Knightley knew who his father was long before he "first met" Simon, so there's no need to bring it up and there's no reason Simon would ever want to bring it up if he's planning his long-term revenge on Knightley

-All they knew was what the tv told them, but there's no reason they have to take that at face value. I submit that it's perfectly reasonable to assume the investigation team thought there was something in another part of the building to examine, and the media weren't told because why should they be. Secret floors are basically impossible to keep secret unless they're subbasements, because you can see how many floors a building has from the outside.

Fair enough but this one didn't bother me too much as it just seemed like standard AA flavor to a mystery
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Splodey_Goat wrote:
Spoiler: RE: Your response
-All they knew was what the tv told them, but there's no reason they have to take that at face value. I submit that it's perfectly reasonable to assume the investigation team thought there was something in another part of the building to examine, and the media weren't told because why should they be. Secret floors are basically impossible to keep secret unless they're subbasements, because you can see how many floors a building has from the outside.

since JM seems to be covering this pretty well, I'm just going to cover this one
Spoiler:
Well yeah, you can see how many floors a building has from the outside, unless it's a short building, does anybody ever actually count them? You can't just glance at a skyscraper and go "OMG that building is supposed to have 50 floors, but it actually has 51!"

Also, it's possible that the investigators were on the 49th floor... but would they really go to the 49th floor only, and leave the crime scene completely unguarded? If they wanted to go to the 49th floor, I'd expect the lights on the 49th and 50th floors to be on.

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Spoiler:
On the lack of blood on the body double: he had no external wounds, so there was no blood to clean up at all. This was probably why Simon missed the pollen.

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Bad Player wrote:
Splodey_Goat wrote:
Spoiler: RE: Your response
-All they knew was what the tv told them, but there's no reason they have to take that at face value. I submit that it's perfectly reasonable to assume the investigation team thought there was something in another part of the building to examine, and the media weren't told because why should they be. Secret floors are basically impossible to keep secret unless they're subbasements, because you can see how many floors a building has from the outside.

since JM seems to be covering this pretty well, I'm just going to cover this one
Spoiler:
Well yeah, you can see how many floors a building has from the outside, unless it's a short building, does anybody ever actually count them? You can't just glance at a skyscraper and go "OMG that building is supposed to have 50 floors, but it actually has 51!"

Also, it's possible that the investigators were on the 49th floor... but would they really go to the 49th floor only, and leave the crime scene completely unguarded? If they wanted to go to the 49th floor, I'd expect the lights on the 49th and 50th floors to be on.


If you're gonna question common sense like that, you should apply that elsewhere first... and by "elsewhere" I mean EVERYWHERE.

I realize I'm simultaneously defending as well as criticizing AAI2 in that statement.
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Nope, but you have meee! :D

Now that I think about it, Revolver Naitou had similar influence on this game's endgame like Mia had in the first game. She played a role that tipped the balance of Nick's first case. He played a role that tipped the balance of Edgeworth's investigations. She died in the next one, but still returned occasionally to help Nick out. He died in the next one... and didn't come back, but his history played a huge part in the confrontation of the big bad boss in the last case!

Such strong parallels! I wonder what to make of this.
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Christ, every new AA game I play drags me back into CR and even though it's a bit of a dead area, I still wanted to give my thoughts on all the Game.
First off, after DD, I really appreciated playing a sprite-based Ace Attorney game. It just feels so much nicer.
Spoiler:
I enjoyed the game enough. I'm not as big on the AAI/GK series as the main line games, but it was an enjoyable experience. I knew some things (like Simon was the mastermind) but had forgotten a lot of the spoilers I had read so I got to play through at least the first 3 cases pretty much blind.
The fan-translation did a stellar job. My only gripe would be that it did kind of feel a little bit lacking in humour, but given the sheer volume of text that was involved and just how long it took them, i really have no complaints on that part.
I liked some of the characters, but the only one I really liked was Ray. I wish he had had a more significant contribution after GK2-3 though. Such a cool character design and interesting story. Justine and Sebastian were ok, but certainly nothing particularly special. Whilst I liked Justine's position and her depth in the last 2 cases, as well as Sebastian's growth, their gimmicks grew thin. Simon and Blaise were pretty cool.
One major complaint I had was most of the game felt like the cast of thousands with almost half the cast in one scene at any given time. I think there was just one major character too many.

I sound like a minority on this, but having all the cases connected isn't my preferred way of telling the story. Case 5 was the most unfocussed amount of storylines. To put it in perspective, you're dealing directly or indirectly with 3 kidnappings, 5 murders, 1 trial, 2 x years ago case details, have almost the entire group of characters mentioned (seriously, aside from a couple of prisoners, Jeffrey, Katherine and Delicia, every other character is there) or appear and it winds up being all conducted by a semi-wtf choice...I appreciate them trying to tie everything together, but my god it seemed almost schizophrenic. I understand the need to be epic and indeed, grand, but my word.

I vastly preferred the 4th case as it's an interesting dynamic to introduce amnesia not just for tutorial convenience. I would have loved the 3rd case if they didn't screw around with the established statute of limitations and gave us the tiniest bit more on Gregory in the courts. The 2nd had its moments and the 1st was good. I have the biggest problem with the 5th case, I guess.

Of all the cameos and whatnot, the only one that made me roll my eyes was Ema. The rest of the established characters were fine.

Overall, I'm glad I've played this Japanese only game and finished Edgeworths spinoff series. It was better than DD, but still didn't quite give me the same wonder as the original trilogy. Apologies for the ranting; it's 3 in the morning and I is tired.
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Honestly I feel the same way about it, but I get why people love that it is so plot-driven. But by the time a certain "SS-5" incident was introduced I put down my DS for a second and said "come on!". It's partly that they are seriously banking on the hype of DL-6 too much by constantly having an XY-something case every new game but it's mostly just that it was one plot-point too many for me, and it became too much and also too convenient.

I love when a story is tied neatly together, but I also love it when writers have the balls to include things that don't have to amount to any grandiose idea. I like the fillers in these games. I see them as a means to create entertaining or just memorable self-contained stories where there is more room to characterize the main cast withoit making it all part of their plot. I feel in orser to buy into a protagonist or the other lead characters I first need to feel like they're real people, and fillers actually do that fine.

Furthermore I also see fillers as part of the story as in it's a game about attorneys who take on random cases to solve, which is also why the series has the episodic format. Even a filler case is part of reaffirming the plot which is that you're a lawyer doing their job first and foremost.
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I'd argue that GK2's third case is the only case with a self-contained story, though references to the main plot are made.
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The villain is made out of the third case so it's heavily tied into the overarching plot, actually.
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But there's nothing to indicate that until the final case. The only lingering thread from case 3 is that Courtney/Mikagami brings up the investigation into Edgeworth's actions as a prosecutor.
It's more like case 5 ties into case 3 than the other way around.
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I can't think that way. A plot doesn't need to yell at me and say "this is also part of the plot!" to make it so. It's the same reason I think 1-2 is underrated because it's actually tied into case 4 but it didn't need any unnecessary shift in chronology or shifting viewpoints to get that across. Every case in AAI2 is part of its plot but you don't realize it until the final case but once you know it you'll know that the whole thing was part of the same story even though each case exists well enough as a standalone story too.
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Zekrom025 wrote:
As a side note, I just realised that if we erased AAI completely from the timeline, AAI2 would pretty much be the same game. Aside from meeting Kay I guess, absolutely nothing from the first game impacted the second one. Huh.


Astute observation. As someone who really enjoyed AAI2, and felt that AAI was pretty boring and overall not impacting on Edgeworth or anyone else at all involved in the game, I feel that AAI2 was a great do-over for a Miles Edgeworth spinoff. It was everything AAI1 should have been in context of the series. Character development for Edgeworth, suspense, a great final villain, and a plot that keeps you engaged through each episode. In this sense, I feel that AAI2 feels like it should be the first game, and that AAI is more of the follow-up that fleshes out Kay Faraday's character and backstory. Really, there's almost nothing between the two games aside from when Edgeworth first meets Kay that makes this completely plausible.
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Man I just finished this entire game and I'm up at 5:37 AM writing this but who cares. Such a good game and a great addition to the series (I really don't understand why Capcom didn't localize it when they had the opportunity around 2011). Here are some of my thoughts:

1.) Exceptional soundtrack. I know it in my gut when an Ace Attorney game has a good soundtrack when it doesn't feel distracting at all and I just look forward to hearing the music come on and want to listen to it instead of playing the game.

2.) The Characters mannnnnn <3 . <3 Raymond Shields <3 Gregory Edgeworth <3 Justine Courtney *Liking Shi Long Lang a lot more *Really liking Tyrell Badd more and.... Sebastian Debeste? I swear I was so ready to look up his theme on Youtube and read comments of people bashing him--but after finishing the game I take that all back. Sebastian Debeste...you got my respect homie.

3.) Cameos...yassss. I loved how Maggie Byrd and Wendy Oldbag had good screentime in AA1 and was so bummed that Lotta Hart basically had one line during Turnabout Ablaze. AA2 completely redeemed itself in that regard. You got Frank Sahwit, Regina Berry, Larry Butz, Lotta Hart, Penny Nichols, and Will Powers? Yess Capcom, yess, you're doing it right ^_^ (But then again you made the same mistake with Winston Payne and the DeMasques but I'll let it slide =p).

4 Interconnected and exciting cases throughout with good writing,storytelling and character development. I think this is the first AA game without any filler or out of context cases--it really made the entire game feel like a holistic visual novel/gaming/movie-like experience. Also extreme props to the fan localization group who made this all possible. Thank you guys so much! :edgey:

--**--

Overall I give this game a solid A. Only reason why I didn't give it an A+ is because I accidentally got things spoiled for myself 3 times (I saw two pictures I shouldn't have and read a dangerous youtube comment) and that really dampened the surprise factor of Case 5. Like seriously, the biggest shock to me was probably
Spoiler:
finding out that Justine Courtney had a son and that he was John Marsh (yea that's how drastically I got spoiled =(
But even with the spoilers, such a good game. The cases really made me think and I got through them all without any help (proud of that haha) and it was just plain awesome. This was the last game I needed to complete before I can say I beat all 8 Ace Attorney Games (excluding Prof Layton vs PW and DGS) and I'm really glad I made this game my final one ^_^.
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Last edited by cuongcc on Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The reason this wasn't localised was due to the team disbanding and it being the end of the DS era. But yes,this is by far my favourite Yamazaki game. Even if it starts off slow,the last three cases are the freaking cream of the crop when it comes to AA cases in general. And despite it being so good,it's not even in my top three. Shows how good AA games can really be,huh?
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I finished AAI2 a while ago, and a lot of this will be similar to what's been said already, but I figured I'd post my two cents here.

Overall, this was one of the most enjoyable AA games for me - for now, I'm torn between this and Spirit of Justice for my favorite. It felt dense in a lot of places, though, especially near the end. Tons of characters, tons of different intersecting stories, etc. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just depends on your preference, I guess. I really liked how all the different story threads came together at the end, although some characters' appearances were a little unnecessary (Ema).

To be honest, while I liked a lot of the character development (especially with Sebastian), I'm not the biggest fan of what they did with Lang. I don't mind that he had little screen time, but the direction they took his character wasn't really my favorite. In AAI, Lang's loyalty to his team was one of my favorite characteristics about him, so seeing him become such a lone wolf irked me a bit.

These are minor complaints compared to what I enjoyed about the game, though. Great soundtrack, great writing (the translators did a fantastic job), and the cases were all really memorable. It was definitely worth playing.
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cuongcc wrote:
3.) Cameos...yassss. I loved how Maggie Byrd and Wendy Oldbag had good screentime in AA1 and was so bummed that Lotta Hart basically had one line during Turnabout Ablaze. AA2 completely redeemed itself in that regard. You got Frank Sahwit, Regina Berry, Larry Butz, Lotta Hart, Penny Nichols, and Will Powers? Yess Capcom, yess, you're doing it right ^_^ (But then again you made the same mistake with Winston Payne and the DeMasques but I'll let it slide =p).

Someone else that likes cameos!? I thought I was the only one. I'm so happy now :acro:
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First let me say that I didn't actually play the game; I actually watched a playthrough on Youtube though it didn't ruin my enjoyment. It's kinda late so I'll just dump some quick thoughts on each case and expand upon them later.


Spoiler: Full Game Spoilers
1) Turnabout Target: An excellent "intro" case with satisfactory twists (never expected the "political assassination" to be a setup). I use "intro" lightly because there are a few things I would never have guessed to do if I were new to the series.

2) The Imprisoned Turnabout: Total snooze-fest. Boring mystery, boring characters, boring setting. And why the fudge do they pause the investigation at random intervals for no reason? WHAT ARE THEY DOING WITH ALL THAT SPARE TIME AHDHSJFJSM

Elbird was kind of amusing though.

3) The Inherited Turnabout: This isn't just the best stand-alone case in the series; it's one of the best cases period. Easily a Top 5 contender.

4) The Forgotten Turnabout: Another top-notch case that went fine up until Blaise's interrogation.

5).The Grand Turnabout: More like - "THE GOAT MASTERPIECE TURNABOUT". The multiple layers of intrigue never become convoluted or overwhelming and I literally cannot think of a single flaw with this case. Basically Edgeworth's 2-4, and that's a level of praise many cases wish they could get.

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So how would y'all rank the cases? For me,it's 5>3>4>2>1. Keep in mind though that case four and case two are far away from each other to me. That's just the leap in greatness this game takes for me.
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5>3>4>1>2 for me. Like I said, there are long stretches in case 2 where pretty much nothing happens. It's a setup case and it shows.
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Actually,I feel the same about case 1. It certainly has its moments,but it was way more for setup which doesn't even pay off till way later. At least case two did have some mildly fun moments (though there were stretches of nothingness), and the stuff they set up actually seemed to be important,unlike back in case one. It was just more investing than case one.
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