Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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I noticed the narrative inconsistencies the first time through and complained a lot about it. Then, a second time through... while I still complained, I could better appreciate what the game does have. As a stand-alone story, apart from the rest of the series, the cases are actually well integrated with one another, and I never found pacing as much of an issue. As much as Athena sticks her nose into everything, there's a reasonable explanation to her behavior, just as there's a reasonable explanation to why Apollo left the offices.
Despite what some may say, I think the breakdowns in this game are some of the best since the AAI games. They really pulled out all the stops this time. Now I'm wondering how they'll manage to surpass this standard.
As expected, the humor is top-notch. I still can't get over how ridiculous things can get, and the DLC is definitely no exception. Just thinking about a few of those crowning moments is making me giddy again.
And for the sake of completeness, I rate the animations, graphics, animated scenes, and playability 5 out of 5 stars. I'm personally biased toward Iwadare's musical works, so I also enjoy the soundtrack a lot. But most people will agree with me that there are some beautiful pieces in this track list.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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linkenski wrote:
Just wondering here, did you like the breakdowns of AAI and would you say those of GS5 are similar?
Spoiler: Case 5
This is the explicitly spoiler-free impressions thread. Posting untagged lategame spoilers is not acceptable. -Bolt
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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Ash wrote:
- And Kokone still comes off as a Mary Sue to me
黙りなァ！Will you quit it with Athena being a Mary Sue? It's annoying!
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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linkenski wrote:
bad guys hate her while good guys praise her to death
Examples?
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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aplab23207 wrote:
Ash wrote:
- And Kokone still comes off as a Mary Sue to me
黙りなァ！Will you quit it with Athena being a Mary Sue? It's annoying!
You realize the post you quoted is over a month old, right?
Sligneris wrote:
linkenski wrote:
bad guys hate her while good guys praise her to death
Examples?"oh Athena is so bright and cheerful and energetic and smart and useful and helpful and selfless"
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Bad Player wrote:
aplab23207 wrote:
Ash wrote:
- And Kokone still comes off as a Mary Sue to me
黙りなァ！Will you quit it with Athena being a Mary Sue? It's annoying!
You realize the post you quoted is over a month old, right?
Sligneris wrote:
linkenski wrote:
bad guys hate her while good guys praise her to death
Examples?"oh Athena is so bright and cheerful and energetic and smart and useful and helpful and selfless"
You forgot reckless...
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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linkenski wrote:
Just wondering here, did you like the breakdowns of AAI and would you say those of GS5 are similar?
The breakdowns were brilliantly done in AAI and GK2, especially how creative they became over the course of the series. The breakdowns in AA are pretty ordinary in comparison.
I can't say that they're "similar" because the characters are completely different, but the feeling of approaching the breakdown is. The protagonist even points at the witness with a camera view change just before the breakdown animation begins.
aplab23207 wrote:
linkenski wrote:
Just wondering here, did you like the breakdowns of AAI and would you say those of GS5 are similar?
Spoiler:
Or, they should have given Apollo a "failed" sprite similar to Phoenix's in 2-4, 3-2, 3-5, and who can forget the DLC case?Spoiler-tag that mass of spoilers please.
Spoiler: Athena
As for Apollo, there never was a moment when he actually "failed" in a case, so he didn't need one. I am curious if they come up with one for him in a future game, though.
Bad Player wrote:
Sligneris wrote:
linkenski wrote:
bad guys hate her while good guys praise her to death
Examples?"oh Athena is so bright and cheerful and energetic and smart and useful and helpful and selfless"
And in the words of Apollo: "What an overemotional girl."
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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Sligneris wrote:
Spoiler: Athena
What exactly was the breakdown? The only one I know is when
Spoiler:
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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aplab23207 wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler: Athena
What exactly was the breakdown? The only one I know is when
Spoiler:
Check the name you're quoting before you post.
Spoiler:
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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(ex. if you liked it best you might list them like: GS5>PLvsGS>GK2>GK1>GS4>GS3>GS2>GS1)
I used to have Sam Waterston as my avatar but photobucket added a watermark and also Law & Order has been cancelled for 10 years so it's time for me to move on.
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
aplab23207 wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler: Athena
What exactly was the breakdown? The only one I know is when
Spoiler:
Check the name you're quoting before you post.
Spoiler:
Oh, sorry. I live in the US, so I didn't see it.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Ash wrote:
Oh, and 5-2 is a bit disconnected, but there is great meta-hint there for the later half of the game (you'll probably only notice it when you get there, and even I think most people will miss it).
What do you mean? I'm pretty curious.
I'm not English. Excuse my grammar errors.
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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ADA McCoy wrote:
So, for those who played and completed the game, where does GS5 stack up against GS1-5, GK1 and 2, and PLVSPW:AA?
(ex. if you liked it best you might list them like: GS5>PLvsGS>GK2>GK1>GS4>GS3>GS2>GS1)
(ex. if you liked it best you might list them like: GS5>PLvsGS>GK2>GK1>GS4>GS3>GS2>GS1)
I tried doing this, but... GS5 is really hard to place because the characters and mysteries are fantastic but the story and plot are unoriginal and poorly handled.
SweetieBot wrote:
Ash wrote:
Oh, and 5-2 is a bit disconnected, but there is great meta-hint there for the later half of the game (you'll probably only notice it when you get there, and even I think most people will miss it).
What do you mean? I'm pretty curious.
Spoiler: Final case
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
To be fair, Athena's character design was made as the scenarios were being written. It's only natural that her presence and backstory would feel forced in at times. She still fits into the cast well and serves her purpose as a game mechanic... erm, I mean as a supporting character.
Sorry for double post, but I have to comment on this as I re-read it. See this is exactly why I don't like the GK team's constant use of the "everything is interconnected" plots. I know there's a general dislike for case 3s in most Ace Attorney games (minus GK2, or so I've heard) but if you have all cases somehow be relevant to each other, it'd better be an amazing story. From what I'm hearing people are not really impressed with the actual plot/story of GS5, and if they had just made case 2 and 3 completely irrelevant and goofy with maybe a few hints of the overarching plot and maybe have Athena not be personally invested from the getgo, then maybe she wouldn't have become such a sue.
I think if Athena's character is so affected by the scenario writing, then that's the problem, and from my perspective it's critical that Takeshi Yamazaki changes the way he writes plots for future Ace Attorney games. I don't know what the japanese critiques have been saying about the storytelling in the game, but hopefully there's enough feedback to give Yamazaki ideas to improve his writing skills.
I also feel like, if this game has the same kind of concentrated plot as in AAI, it might feel like it's too "try-hard". I don't like it when a story is too focused on the plot the entire time. There has to be some moments where it feels like the characters are just having moments to relax so the tension doesn't get flatlined because it's always "up there".
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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linkenski wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
To be fair, Athena's character design was made as the scenarios were being written. It's only natural that her presence and backstory would feel forced in at times. She still fits into the cast well and serves her purpose as a game mechanic... erm, I mean as a supporting character.
Sorry for double post, but I have to comment on this as I re-read it. See this is exactly why I don't like the GK team's constant use of the "everything is interconnected" plots. I know there's a general dislike for case 3s in most Ace Attorney games (minus GK2, or so I've heard) but if you have all cases somehow be relevant to each other, it'd better be an amazing story. From what I'm hearing people are not really impressed with the actual plot/story of GS5, and if they had just made case 2 and 3 completely irrelevant and goofy with maybe a few hints of the overarching plot and maybe have Athena not be personally invested from the getgo, then maybe she wouldn't have become such a sue.
I think if Athena's character is so affected by the scenario writing, then that's the problem, and from my perspective it's critical that Takeshi Yamazaki changes the way he writes plots for future Ace Attorney games. I don't know what the japanese critiques have been saying about the storytelling in the game, but hopefully there's enough feedback to give Yamazaki ideas to improve his writing skills.
I also feel like, if this game has the same kind of concentrated plot as in AAI, it might feel like it's too "try-hard". I don't like it when a story is too focused on the plot the entire time. There has to be some moments where it feels like the characters are just having moments to relax so the tension doesn't get flatlined because it's always "up there".
Cases 2 and 3 in this game are rather loosely connected, plot-wise, to the other cases. One features a yokai village and an ill-reputed mayor's conspiracy, while the other features a corrupted education system. They fit thematically and provide extra "space" for the new characters to better develop in the minds of players. There's no problem with how they've been implemented, and they give the game a more even pace regarding the levels of tension.
The issue lies more with the game's struggle to maintain balance. Athena's character was created with the Mood Matrix in mind, and the developers wanted more out of her than simply being around. Thus, they gave her a role as a protagonist for a single case. Now, that alone would have been fine, but by the end of the 4th case, leading into the 5th case, she ended up getting a bit more attention than necessary - and I could say, it even infringed on Simon's spotlight. She feels like she's been forced into the center of case 5, despite that the primary roles have already been established by Phoenix, Apollo, and Simon.
Despite the so-called (and so-advertised) "Dark Age of Law", this game doesn't feel any darker or tenser than previous games. In fact, I'm still more impressed with the evil schemes of that one crazy Kurain lady and how someone like Godot could be fit into it. That in of itself is already pretty dark; to go beyond would be pretty difficult, actually.
Honestly, I'm beginning to feel sorry for her, not because of her background or placement in the game, but because of her origins. Simon is actually a lot better off because he doesn't take as much of the spotlight.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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I'd also like to know this one thing. I'm in the minority of people who don't like T&T as much as PW:AA. It's arguably a great Ace Attorney but, for me I did not like the overarching plot in it and I found, especially the final bit, of 3-5 to be really off-putting and lackluster. I was litterally miles ahead of the games logic for the entire ending section and none of the twists surprised me in a good way. It was really frustrating.
But as someone who likes PW:AA the most out of every Ace Attorney game released so far, I'd like to know from someone who felt the same what they think about Dual Destinies. Because so far, a lot of people compare it to either T&T or GK2 when they try to rank it, but unfortunately there's a slight bias towards those two games being the best, and I simply don't agree on that.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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For one, the GK series scenarios were written by the same guy who wrote for GS5. As of late, it's become clearer with the formulas he uses in his writing, but setting that aside, GS5 has better grasp of the interactive aspects to a visual novel - namely, the mysteries of the cases and the versatility of play (though the latter is better attributed to Eshiro). Those aspects were the highlights in both Investigations games.
As for T&T, it's the last of the original trilogy and shows how Takumi's writing had progressed since the first and second games. Because his latest works have been on a separate franchise, Ghost Trick, and a collaboration, PLvsPW:AA, it's much more difficult to gauge exactly where Takumi's writings stand at the moment. Although he did work on the scenarios of AJ:AA, there was a lot of revision that went into it before the final submission, thanks to external pressures and other things, so it wasn't completely his work either.
GS5 may have a few nostalgic parallels to GS1, but they're mostly almost unnoticeable and easily mistaken or blatantly obvious. (In fact, GS4 still compares better to GS1, since both are the beginning of a new cast generation.) Nonetheless, they are still nostalgic.
It's not just about personal preference whenever I judge something. I take a good estimate of my sources first, and when I flounder, I flounder with pride. (Please don't take it as an example, though.)
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Also a quick note, I believe Shu Takumi was also the script writer for GS4, since the writing was generally very much like Shu Takumi's usual style. I've noticed that Yamazaki's writing isn't always as sharp but rather very serious when things are supposed to be dramatic and more goofy than snappy when it comes to the quirky witnesses. Again, this could be because of the localisation job of AAI. It's arguably not the best localisation in the series.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Spoiler: Gameplay
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Spoiler: You mean this one?
Spoiler: Or this one?
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler: You mean this one?
Spoiler: Or this one?
I guess either?
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Spoiler:
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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aplab23207 wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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So, I guess it's more like "show and tell" than otherwise... er, but not like what elementary school kids do. Plus, there are accompanying pictures (though a good sense of context is necessary).
IMO, this is one of my favorite game mechanics presented in this series, along side of mob trials.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
IMO, this is one of my favorite game mechanics presented in this series, along side of mob trials.
I like the idea of the Thought Route, but I felt the fact that there's only two (occasionally three) options and no penalties for wrong answers severely weakened it.
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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I remember Ash suggesting
Ash wrote:
No more 'past cases' in the final case! There is also nothing exciting anymore to finding out the current case is related to a past case. Instead, as we have a bloated protagonist cast anyway, why not introduce the Chunsoft Zapping system (as seen in games like 428 and Detective Conan - Marionette Symphony) to do a three-way trial, at the same time (like how GS3-2 went). Have a case where three different incidents are in fact connected, but where they can't prove it initially. Phoenix, Apollo and Athena each do their owntrial at the same time, with a zapping system used to share the evidence and findings they make during the trials. And then you do all trials at the same time, jumping between the characters and using information acquired in one trial, in another trial (i.e. Phoenix finds out something that is also of consequence for Apollo, who in turn figures something out that Phoenix himself can use). And everything comes together at the end, of course.
Ah, yes, the "zapping" system mechanic. It'd work wonders if it's included in GS6, but it was one thing I wanted to try out when we were awaiting GS5. It wouldn't be too like the Thought Route, but would have similar functions to it.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
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My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
1000% Knight
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I see what you guys are saying about XY-Z Incidents, tho. However, it's kind of hard to make a final case without some sort of past incident, since it invariably becomes the motive. What they can do, however, is, rather than solving the incident (ex 1-5, GK2-5, 5-5), the incident is just 'there,' influencing the case (ex. 2-4, 3-5).
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Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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I wish more often that the writer could just forget the old Ace Attorney games and make up more original ideas. There's a sea of posibilities that would make for good mysteries and good storytelling for a case 5, but unfortunately I think it seems like they're always just re-using the same ideas.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
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In original trilogy (not counting RftA) we had quite a big variety of those, making all of them unique.
Still, I can't help but to notice Shu Takumi overuses "Maya in danger" trope, now that I think about it.
Spoiler: PLvsAA
Doing that neither with Maya, nor with many other assistants will work well...
The biggest problem it's hard to come up with original ideas. Instead of having a clean slate you are very limited - either with thinking too much about trying to get original to the point it limits your ideas or the other way around - you just end up reproducing the old ones...
Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread
1000% Knight
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Spoiler: PLvAA
I also think that AA is pretty original in their cases and 'incidents in the past'; it's only in GS5 where it's started to get formulaic.
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