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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Gerkuman wrote:
I liked that about it.

Case 4 isn't a final case contender though, even for the earlier games.


I feel like if Case 4 was longer, it might've been. Especially if there was some build-up to it. Heh.. a game about rakugo and inheritance...
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Spoiler:
Spirit of Justice was honestly just about what I expected it to be: A damn good game. I wasn't too surprised by a lot of the conclusions, but that's probably from me watching the streams. The pacing felt off at times, and the game got REALLY slow at some points, but it's a great game nonetheless. If I had to rank the cases, it'd be something along the lines of...

1. Turnabout Revolution
2. The Magical Turnabout
3. The Rite of Turnabout
4. Turnabout Storyteller (Pretty much interchangeable with TROT)
5. The Foreign Turnabout

The characters were great, and the villains were some of the best in the series, save for one. Still, I'd personally put Rayfa on the cover since she plays a MUCH bigger role than Maya, but marketing, I guess.
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They over-redesigned Revisualization :/ Now it's lame. Why did they change it anyway? it was great in DD. Now it's all distracting visually and the noise of the throughline is loud too, and when the answers pop up it looks really goofy.
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linkenski wrote:
They over-redesigned Revisualization :/ Now it's lame. Why did they change it anyway? it was great in DD. Now it's all distracting visually and the noise of the throughline is loud too, and when the answers pop up it looks really goofy.


Huh, I thought the new revisualization was miles better. I loved the art style, and how it felt like you were breaking through through and finding the truth.
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I'm only part way through Part 3's trial. but so far the entire game has been nothing but garbage, so much so that I'd rather play AJ than this. I cannot put into words how much I hate the Divine Seances. Finally, on the subject of AJ, the fingerprint examination parts are so better in that game than they are in SoJ.
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linkenski wrote:
and when the answers pop up it looks really goofy


I like the new Thought Route look, but I do agree that it looks goofy when the answers pop up (both the individual ones and the big conclusion). I'd also have liked for the individual answers to stay on screen like they did in AA5 instead of immediately disappearing.

I dig the new "forward towards truth" aesthetic, but you're right in that it is a tad overdesigned.
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I loved how the presentation of the Thought Route in this game. Much more dynamic and the way the final answer appears was great. I never did really like going from one side to the other in the previous game, actually, and going in the depth was much better.

BUT, now I kinda wonder how it looks like in the English version. In the Japanese version, the way the characters appear are a nice homage to the credits in the Ichikawa Kon films of Kindaichi Kousuke (really famous series of mystery films, that kicked off Kadokawa's film business), but the 'going around corner' presentation doesn't really work in English, probably.
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I dunno, it just looks really goofy to me. It's more bouncy and the visuals draw attention to themselves. It's like it's too much whereas in DD I loved how you could see the protagonist closing their eyes in the middle of the screen faded out, as to show that this is a chain of thought that happens in a split second slowed down. Now it feels like some kind of audiosurfer minigame.
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D.A. McCoy wrote:
I don't care for Godot either. He's the weakest prosecutor in my opinion character-wise - not because he doesn't have characterization (he's actually more developed than a lot of the others) but because I thought his whole arc wasn't well-written, specifically the part about hating Wright for a stupid reason and then suddenly having an epiphany about it at the end. I thought it could have been better told.

Still, I would say that a lot of the overall plots of these games work best when you play all the cases in the game in the order intended.I'd recommend going and playing the games you didn't complete at once at some point (not talking about playing all the games themselves in order necessarily, but rather if you're going to play one of the games I'd play through it all before playing the next one.


AA1, AA2, AAi and AA5 I played all the cases together (in the case of AA1 that meant replaying a couple of cases but the other 3 I did all in order the very first time) so it was only AJ and AA3 that I didn't. AA3 I would have done had I taken my iPad with me on holiday. But yeah I should go back and replay those two at some point (probably not yet as I only completed AJ for the first time the other week).


ThePaSch wrote:
Does anyone actually enjoy the fingerprinting parts? In both of the occasions that mechanic has popped up so far, I was just about ready to throw my 3DS at the wall and ended up having to look up the asinine position of some obscure fingerprint that ended up meaning exactly zilch in later trials. Most obnoxious mechanic in the series.

I just hope it doesn't pop up again.


Yes! This 3D examining for fingerprints really isn't working - especially on the small screen of the 3DS. Oddly enough I think this bit would be better on iOS because an iPad size screen would be easier to navigate. (I say oddly because Rise from the Ashes was completely bugged on iOS and selecting the fingerprints there was a guessing game).

I'm glad they added the button so you're not blowing into the mic all the time - but I do think they should have given you a larger bottle of fingerprinting powder so you didn't need to clear what you had marked off quite so often. What I don't want them to do though is get rid of forensics entirely again. I've always liked that mechani, but it doesn't seem to have translated well when
Spoiler: SoJ Case 2
The coffin is so large
. At the same time I'm not entirely sure how they'd fix it, short of always having smaller objects to examine. :lana:

The fingerprinting aside, I've really enjoyed both the cases I've played so far! The first case was really intense and the second one was extremely emotional.
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Since we're on the Revisualization/Thought Route, I think a combination of what DD and SoJ did would be the best. We should have the playable character with their eyes closed in the background and the previous deductions to be visible like in DD. I think having the light travel upwards as opposed to to the side works better in SoJ.

That said, thinking back to the previous games in this series, this game is the most daring since AJ.
Spoiler: I'm talking about
how AJ stripped Phoenix of his badge and how SoJ had Apollo stay in Khura'in.

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This game seems very "love it or hate it" from what I see so far of other's opinions.

Personally, I really enjoy the game (again, mostly Cases 2 and 4 because I like "filler")
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For me it's kinda like DD but not as derivative (but that's not to say it isn't ever... whoo-boy!) :hobohodo: . It starts out strong and sends you on a rollercoaster of emotions already in case 1, but then by 2 a few things start grating on you but it's okay... then stuff like that keeps happening and by the end of it you're satisfied but also exhausted, and then when case 3 starts I dunno, I like it but I also have this feeling of dread that as soon as the trial begins it will have some of the same pacing issues, and by the time i reach case 5 I probably feel drained and have a hard time concentrating as with AAI, AAI2 and DD (give or take PLvPWAA because of that slog of a final trial)

I like it, but look at this, I got it 5 days ago and I find myself playing it in very short bursts and I haven't even made it to day 3 trial in case 3. Normally I'd be excited and eager to press on but I really have to put it down at times. I don't just think it's SoJ that does it, I think it's the franchise in general. Love it, but I'm starting to feel like I'm going through the motions with them.

I think I'm also tired of how increasingly long these games are. Some people finished this in more than 30 hours. The first game was like 8 hours and it was perfect to me for the kind of game that it was. Sometimes I wish they would stop striving for 5 cases and superfluous lines of dialogue just to have more text and just cut everything down so it's nice and consise and maybe reduce the cast to half the size at this point. Seriously, it's getting too big, and I'm also starting to miss just having one protagonist that I experience everything in the game as.
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Overall, I think it's one of the weaker mainline entries. I'd definitely put it below T&T, DD, and the original; not entirely sure about AJ or JFA. I think the big problem is that the game tries to do too much new, to the point where it's unable to give the proper attention and buildup for its main plotlines, the biggest offender of all being...

Spoiler:
Dhurke. If SoJ is going to try and have Dhurke be not only a major inspiration for a revolution we're suddenly supposed to be invested in, but also a father/mentor figure for Apollo, we really need to be interacting with him before the very last case.

Broadly speaking, it feels like SoJ tries to do for Apollo what T&T did for Phoenix; introduce a new part of his backstory and then use it along with what we already know about him to significantly develop him as a lawyer. But T&T didn't wait until the very last case to start introducing those themes.

I'm all for the series being adventurous going forward, but I think we definitely need to start focusing on a smaller, core group of characters. Perhaps part of the reason why SoJ struggled with really developing its main themes is it tries to give an important role to every major non-criminal character from Dual Destinies, as well introduce Maya, and then bring in all of its new stuff as well. There's no way that a game with five cases, one of which is entirely unrelated to the main plot, is going to be able to give proper development for all of that.

In short, I like the direction that SoJ tried to go in; it had some really creative moments and, difficulty wise, I think it was about as well balanced as an AA game has ever been. I especially like how the ending really sets Apollo apart from Phoenix as his own character, and I seriously hope they do something with him going forward. There's just too much to focus on, however. Didn't think I'd be criticizing a game for trying too much new stuff, but here I am.
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30 hours you say? Well damn, that is a long time. Anyways, I've been enjoying the game minus the fingerprinting section which thankfully passed a while ago. First two cases were damn fun to play. I see that it's a bit all over the place based on what y'all have said, perhaps rough around the edges with a good direction but cluttered execution. I'll have to see, but my schedule is tight so I'm not certain as to when I'll even finish. It seems mixed, but I think I'll have a soft spot for it despite some flaws, kinda like AJ for me. Generally, I tend to see all the games as at the very least decent, some decent with some major flaws but somewhat enjoyable (AJ, DD and AA2), some pretty good (AA1) and a few as damn excellent (AA3). So, in the end, if it ends up being below what I expected, I shan't be too down, I'll just take what I get and be hyped about those good aspects. :will:
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Comparing the amount of main characters that go through significant character development between DD and SoJ:

Spoiler: DD and SOJ spoilers
DD: Phoenix (Becoming a lawyer again), Apollo (Case 4/5), Athena (UR-1), Simon (UR-1)

SoJ: Phoenix (Dealing with DC act), Apollo (The WAA, Dhurke, Khura'in), Athena (Case 4), Maya (Marketing), Ema (Having to arrest good friends), Trucy (Being arrested, Apollo), Rayfa (Finding out her parents are corrupt and that she sent innocents to death), Nahyuta (Amara, Defiant Dragons, Ga'ran)
(Not to mention Pearl and Edgeworth being shoehorned in for absolutely no reason. At least in DD they had a reason to be there, especially Edgeworth.)

There's just too many different things going on in SoJ. And that's mostly because of the 3 lawyers and having two different locations.
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linkenski wrote:
I think I'm also tired of how increasingly long these games are. Some people finished this in more than 30 hours. The first game was like 8 hours and it was perfect to me for the kind of game that it was. Sometimes I wish they would stop striving for 5 cases and superfluous lines of dialogue just to have more text and just cut everything down so it's nice and consise and maybe reduce the cast to half the size at this point. Seriously, it's getting too big, and I'm also starting to miss just having one protagonist that I experience everything in the game as.

But reading speed is a very important factor here. I for example finished AA6 (main game) in 24 hours, and while I'm a fairly fast reader in Japanese, I'm much faster in both my mother tongue and English. A few weeks back, I looked at the average of how long it took people to beat AA5. I can't even understand how that's the average, because I did it below the 18 hours >_>
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I'm up to case 4 now and so far I'm loving this game! Literally not sure why everyone's complaining about it (I'll start looking into the debates once I've cleared the game). Unless case 5 does something crazy I call bull on all the negativity.
So far the writing's been excellent! The plots are easy to follow, and at least to me they're making sense. A little disappointed investigation is still linear though (Magatama segments are few in case 3 and only appear when you have all the evidence, so it's a watered down version of how they were intended in the original trilogy).
Spoiler: Case 3 spoilers
The super nonchalant way of telling us how Apollo and Nahyuta are related though was a bit odd... I honestly thought they'd hype that part up to the final case.

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I think your milage of the game will vary depending on if it grabbed you. For me, it really did. (Again, case 4 was the only one that didn't, and even then I cared for one of the witnesses.)

Anecdotally more people I know like this game than don't like it. But as CR is full of passionate people, you get a wide mix of opinion. People argue over 2-4 vs 3-5, Godot, and the relative qualities of AJ and DD. The only general thing people agree on is that the first game is good (and even then, some like it more than others, and there's Rise from the Ashes to contend with.)

It's why I have to suppress my blind need to defend the games. It doesn't help, and just because I'm one of the rare people who likes every single game in the series doesn't mean that I have to react to others disliking them.
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So I completed Case 2 last night. I'm on Day 1 of investigation so far.

Non-spoiler thoughts:
* I really am loving this game. I haven't been disappointed in anything and I thought the first two cases were great. My minor issues with them don't really detract from them.

* The music is really great. It seems like a lot of the Japanifornia stuff is kind of a tribute to the whole franchise. I keep hearing little pieces of melodies from all the games appearing in interesting places in the new songs. I much prefer the court begins themes in this game to the DD one, and I like all the cross-examination music. The only one I've found unmemorable so far is the Tell the Truth one (I think), but honestly in my opinion the only real memorable Tell the Truth themes were GS1 and T&T so I don't really care much for the others anyway.

* It seems like this game is following the AAI games in that all of the events are going to occur close together. This isn't a problem, although I do miss the whole "the game takes place over 6 to 9 months" timeline that most of the games do. On the other hand, DD did this recently, and the close time frame kind of fits with what the game's story is. (And, of course, I'm only on Case 3, so I might be wrong, but I also don't really think that Case 5 is going to happen 8 months after Case 1).

I already put down quick Case 1 thoughts, so here are my case 2 thoughts.
Spoiler: Case 2
This case was awesome! It felt ripped right out of AJ (In fact you could make some arguments for it being too derivative of 4-3 but I found it spun it in a different way so it was more like a "sequel" to 4-3 than just a copy). It was great to have Apollo, Ema, and Trucy all be relevant in a case again, and the return to the Gramarye story is great. This game really makes me wish that DD had had every room be examinable, because already I feel like I know more about the characters just by hearing them discuss random things in the environment.

I did have some minor things I took issue with. Like many others are complaining about, I did think the fingerprinting this time was a little tedious. At least as of Case 2 I didn't spend that much time on it (I found the prints I was supposed to quickly by accident) but I can see it being a problem. I'm unsure why they decided to make this one minigame so expansive rather than just doing it "normally" and bringing other methods like Luminol and plaster back (or that awesome carbon thing that reads what's hidden between layers of paint from AJ - that thing was awesome!). I also was a little unsure why Trucy stabbed the coffin in the scene in the first place - I think if someone else stabbed the coffin and Trucy appeared after it might have made sense, but I'm having a little trouble with why it's really relevant in the actual context. I also did feel like it should have had 2 days of investigation and trial, but on the other hand I don't have any immediate ideas for how they'd do that so I don't see it as a big problem. It was still at least as long as 1-2, I think.

Still, It's a great 2nd case - I can't really "rate" it or compare it to others since I've only played it once, but I get a feeling that I like it better than 3-2 and GK-2 for sure.


Spoiler: Probable spoilers for Case 3/4/5 - I don't know any real info but I have hypothesis based on reactions I've heard, so if you don't want to hear the possible trajectory of the plot DON'T READ
While Case 3 seems interesting and I really like Phoenix and Maya, I kind of wish we had more "AJ" cases (filler cases with Apollo, Athena, Trucy, Ema, etc.), perhaps just because Apollo didn't get a ton of those due to the Phoenix emphasis of the 3DS games. I know Case 4 is in Japanifornia but I've heard it's not a full-length case - but I also don't know anything about Case 5 so I don't know what takes place in Kurain and what takes place in Japanifornia. I'm really going to enjoy the other cases but 6-2 was a little like 5-2 in that it reminded me that I would have loved a whole game just of Apollo taking on some "simple" (in terms of the case's link to the protagonists) filler cases where he's just solving mysteries like Phoenix did in 1-5, 2-3, 3-3, etc.

Still, though, I do surmise based on the reactions that I've heard (not spoilers, just reactions to them) that something big and "WTF" is probably going to happen to Apollo or his story - perhaps even concluding his story and having him end his part in the series. This is the third game in the "sequel trilogy", so I think that's fitting if that's the case. As someone who started with AJ and then worked backwards, I always looked at Apollo as the "original" protagonist for me, so it will be gratifying if bitter-sweet for his story to close, if that is what happens. If that does occur, though, I hope that case 5 is has lots of moments with Trucy, Ema, Phoenix, Athena, (Gavin?), etc together with him - give him a case that sends him off almost as if he was dying or something. 3-5 did a good job of this by somewhat relating to Phoenix's past and by bringing everyone important back to send Phoenix and Maya off into the sunset (at least until GS4 comes out). It's not that I want unnecessary fan-service, but I do think in the "final" case relevant characters should come back. Apollo's seeming familiarity to the new prosecutor make me think it's going in this direction.

Of course, this could all be BS and maybe the end doesn't feature Apollo at all, but it seems like based on the spoiler tag titles that it deals a lot with him.


Once again, those are just thoughts based on people's reactions to supposed spoilers. I don't know any actual spoilers so please continue to tag them if you're going to bring them up haha!
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I just realised that the Japanifornia cases are kinda like epilogue cases to AJ(6-2 and the first half of 6-5) and DD(6-4).
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SuperAj3 wrote:
I'm up to case 4 now and so far I'm loving this game! Literally not sure why everyone's complaining about it (I'll start looking into the debates once I've cleared the game). Unless case 5 does something crazy I call bull on all the negativity.
So far the writing's been excellent! The plots are easy to follow, and at least to me they're making sense. A little disappointed investigation is still linear though (Magatama segments are few in case 3 and only appear when you have all the evidence, so it's a watered down version of how they were intended in the original trilogy).
Spoiler: Case 3 spoilers
The super nonchalant way of telling us how Apollo and Nahyuta are related though was a bit odd... I honestly thought they'd hype that part up to the final case.

Well, having beaten the game myself and discussed it with someone who has almost beaten it as well, I can say that just about all of our negativity focuses on the last two cases. So I'd say finish the game, and then see what you think.
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After having cooled down a bit about the ending, I can say that I thought the game was really good despite some rough parts. If nothing else, you have to admire Yamazaki for making a game so unconventional. Really my only big problem with it is the pacing is utterly insane, but there's plenty of really good aspects. I thought that the writing was much more enjoyable than DD in general, particularly banter during the investigations. I thought there was some nice character development all around too, with many characters getting little moments when I thought they would be glossed over (not all of them though!). I enjoyed Rayfa waaaaay way more than I thought I would, it's pretty fun to have an assistant who antagonizes you all the time. The difficulty is back up, and you can poke around everywhere in investigations, so really the game is basically DD but more daring and with more of everything. I've warmed up to that lovely divisive ending too.

Spoiler: Ending
Even though Apollo left the agency it's thematically appropriate and it makes me think of Mia leaving Grossberg's law office for some reason, haha. Plus, I highly doubt the people at Capcom are going to never talk about him again considering Lamiroir during the ending and his popularity in Japan.


I'm looking forward to giving this game a replay and seeing how it feels the second time though!
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This game is gonna be great during a second playthrough... and my little sister kind of forced me to play with her... so only 4 hours after I finished the game... I'm starting it again :larry:
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I finished it a few hours ago and I dare say it might be my favourite game in the entire franchise. There was really no holding back in the content of each and every case, though I wish case 4 could've been longer, even if it's just a filler case. Maybe having an investigation segment before or something.

Spoiler:
Datz is also probably my new favourite character out of any existing. He's so good.


Spoiler: Not really a spoiler but a stupid screencap
Image

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Insanity Brit wrote:
I finished it a few hours ago and I dare say it might be my favourite game in the entire franchise. There was really no holding back in the content of each and every case, though I wish case 4 could've been longer, even if it's just a filler case. Maybe having an investigation segment before or something.


I would loved Case 4 even more if it was kinda structured like The Cosmic Turnabout; trial->investigation->trial
But I guess they wanted to keep the Japanifornia cases to one day
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I'm on the second day of case three, and I'm hating this game even more than I did previously. Not only that, but I'm convinced that Divination Seances are the worst mechanic that has been implemented in ANY game ever made (even worse than tripping in Super Smash Bros. Brawl).

Here's to them not appearing in AA7. :b33r:
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'm on the second day of case three, and I'm hating this game even more than I did previously. Not only that, but I'm convinced that Divination Seances are the worst mechanic that has been implemented in ANY game ever made (even worse than tripping in Super Smash Bros. Brawl).

Here's to them not appearing in AA7. :b33r:


No one's forcing you to keep playing (and complaining), y'know.
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ThePaSch wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'm on the second day of case three, and I'm hating this game even more than I did previously. Not only that, but I'm convinced that Divination Seances are the worst mechanic that has been implemented in ANY game ever made (even worse than tripping in Super Smash Bros. Brawl).

Here's to them not appearing in AA7. :b33r:


No one's forcing you to keep playing (and complaining), y'know.

...I think it's fair to complain about a mechanic on a thread that is quite literally devoted to expressing your opinions about the game.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title

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It is. I guess It just kinda irked me how all of his posts seem to be about how he hates the game more than anything else in the world and little else. It's fine to not like the game, and it's fine to express one's opinion, but I don't see why repeatedly pointing out just how garbage the game is would be necessary.
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This has nothing to do with the game itself I think, but this has probably been the slowest I have ever taken to get through an Ace Attorney game. I think it's just where I am in life right now with lots of things to do and little time for the game, so I have only managed to take one segment at a day, and I even hesitated from picking the game up entirely some days. It's nice, so I make it last long but I can't figure out if my reluctance is also from franchise fatigue. I think SoJ is already not my favorite due to how it doesn't have that "I can't put it down" feeling but regardless it's IMHO much better than Dual Destinies.

I just went back and played a few parts of DD in a break from SoJ today, and dear lord, the writing, especially in case 3 of that game, was just not good. If it wasn't for how amazing AJAA was whenever it isn't god awful (4-3!) SoJ would be the one to make me say "best game since the trilogy".

But at the very least I actually think this could become my favorite Tamazaki game. It doesn't quite have the pacing DD did at least manage to have and it does dabble in themes that are unusual for the signature style established particularly with T&T, but this game is just so fresh in a weird way and most of the dialogue feels on point and not forced or tryhard (only the lawyer hate at times), the seances are okay IMHO, and I feel like this is the first truly forward moving game I have played since T&T, where I just want to progress the plot to see what happens next (whenever I do get to play it.)
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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ThePaSch wrote:
It is. I guess It just kinda irked me how all of his posts seem to be about how he hates the game more than anything else in the world and little else. It's fine to not like the game, and it's fine to express one's opinion, but I don't see why repeatedly pointing out just how garbage the game is would be necessary.


Okay, I was overreacting when I labelled the game as "garbage", but I really find those Divination Seances to be very, very frustrating.
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
ThePaSch wrote:
It is. I guess It just kinda irked me how all of his posts seem to be about how he hates the game more than anything else in the world and little else. It's fine to not like the game, and it's fine to express one's opinion, but I don't see why repeatedly pointing out just how garbage the game is would be necessary.


Okay, I was overreacting when I labelled the game as "garbage", but I really find those Divination Seances to be very, very frustrating.


It's certainly not my FAVOURITE of the mechanics, but I like it enough. Not as much as the Mood Matrix, at least (which is part of the reason I like the Japanifornia cases more), because the D.S's I had a bit of a hard time working with.
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Take these opinions with a grain of salt, as I tend to look at things in a very positive light the first time through and then find more flaws on replays, but so far the divination seance might actually be in my opinion one of the best mechanics.

I generally love all of the mechanics in this series, but one thing that always irks me a bit with Apollo's bracelet (a mini game which I love) and the Mood Matrix is that the characters just kind of decide at what point to use them, without a real solid foundation as to why it's good to use it now rather than some other time.

This is especially apparent with Apollo's bracelet. In AJ most of the time the button to use it is onscreen all the time, but only at certain points will it be clickable. Often it will go from greyed-out to clickable with no explanation, and Apollo doesn't always make a statement about it beforehand. It's ok though because I find it so fun to play.

The Mood Matrix gets a better introduction - usually a witness is in need of "therapy" - but it still sometimes feels kind of random and since there are only four options it tends to be pretty easy. I still really enjoy it though!

What I like about the Divination Seance is that A) It gets pretty hard sometimes, B) It's very flashy and visual, and C) It has a standard time and place in the courtroom. What I mean is that unlike the two mini-games listed above, the Divination Seance is almost like a "pre-cross examination" which Phoenix must successfully disprove before going on to the "normal" gameplay. Once it's done it doesn't seem to pop up again. I like that routine aspect of it. I also just think it's cool (the seance for Case 3 Day 1 is pretty creepy in my opinion). However, I can see that if people are having trouble with it it can get tedious fast.

Some thoughts on case 3 so far (I'm almost done (I think) with Investigation Day 2:
Spoiler: Case 3
I really am liking this case, although not as much as Case 2. I like it more than case 1 though. (although that might just be because it has investigations/is longer. I think 6-2 just captured my nostalgia/fondness for AJ due to its similar plot arcs and vibes, so I don't really hold it against case 3. I've always been a little more interested in the Apollo cases (5-2 was my favorite case of DD).)

I like all the characters and I enjoy the dialogue between Phoenix and Rayfa, although now that I know she's just a child and her general attitude I don't really think her Voice Actor suits the character. It sounds too old. (If anyone here has played Sam & Max: Season 3, I can't help imagining Rayfa sounding like the Pharaoh when he's taken over Max's body in Case 4 of that game).

I have a couple little nitpicks that aren't huge but I think could have been handled better.

*I thought the whole "Phoenix went unconscious for 24 hours because his back went out from praying" was forced. I don't buy it. he should have fallen off a bridge again

*I like that Rayfa has a hard time believing that Phoenix would do anything to defend Maya, but the whole "Why don't you give up" "Because I believe in Maya" Why do you continue to fight" "because I need to defend Maya" discussion has probably happened about 10 times now. I get it already!

*I think Maya's characterization is generally pretty good, as I don't think someone with her personality and lack of need for real life "adult" social and occupational skills would suddenly turn into Mia or anything. However, I do think she sometimes acts a little to immature, like her excitement over the Plumed Punisher keychain. I get hardcore fandom (I mean, I'm on an AA forum) but that photo where she's holding it in the family photo makes me cringe a bit. It doesn't really seem like something someone who's almost 30 would do.

*I think the new prosecutor is generally pretty cool, and unlike some other reactions I've heard I think his frequent discussion of everyone rotting in hell for millions of years matches up with his religious extremism. There hasn't been a prosecutor before who won't listen to logical arguments because of religious ideas (I'm not criticizing of religion, but that's what he does) before, so he's kind of a brick wall that doesn't budge under normal circumstances. What does bug me, though, is the occasional time he'll have a "comedic" line (ex. the hell of tickling, the hell of hangnails) which I think undermines the threatening vibe that he projects. I get that it's AA and it has to have humor, but I don't think it really fits in the rest of the context surrounding the DC act and the grim nature of the trials here. I think he should stay serious and then the witnesses should be the humorous ones (like TBD, who I thought was pretty great).

I'm still really liking it, but those are just some thoughts.


Also, one thing I found makes me wonder if I found something not everyone did (I tried to be as vague as possible in the spoiler tag title but I also want people to only read it if they've seen what I'm talking about:
Spoiler: Case 3 - don't read until you're already on the last trial of Case 3 and you know what I'm talking about when I say "the photo on the wall with 3 men in it that you can only find in the 2nd investigation segment when you are alone"
I was in the rebel hideout (the one where TBD reveals his true face) and as I always do before I talk to the person there I look around everything. In there I found a photo of a young Prosecutor and Apollo along with the rebel leader. TBD mentions that the Rebel Leader adopted Apollo and later Apollo went to the US. Phoenix kind of has a "WTF" moment and now he knows (at least a little) about Apollo's relationship with the Prosecutor, he was in Kurain, etc. But I was surprised that the Photo didn't come into evidence and it didn't lead to a new conversation in the "talk" screen. It didn't seem to affect the scene at all, and in the end TBD left.

This made me wonder if this scene was mandatory or if my further exploration gave me something not everyone saw. I figure it's part of the overall story and will pop up later, but could someone tell me (without spoiling me at all or mentioning any plot points about it) if this was mandatory somehow or if it was an extra?

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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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D.A. McCoy wrote:
Spoiler: Case 3
*I thought the whole "Phoenix went unconscious for 24 hours because his back went out from praying" was forced. I don't buy it. he should have fallen off a bridge again

Spoiler:
But they don't have bridges. :( He should have fallen down the stairs.


Quote:
Spoiler: Case 3 - don't read until you're already on the last trial of Case 3 and you know what I'm talking about when I say "the photo on the wall with 3 men in it that you can only find in the 2nd investigation segment when you are alone"
I was in the rebel hideout (the one where TBD reveals his true face) and as I always do before I talk to the person there I look around everything. In there I found a photo of a young Prosecutor and Apollo along with the rebel leader. TBD mentions that the Rebel Leader adopted Apollo and later Apollo went to the US. Phoenix kind of has a "WTF" moment and now he knows (at least a little) about Apollo's relationship with the Prosecutor, he was in Kurain, etc. But I was surprised that the Photo didn't come into evidence and it didn't lead to a new conversation in the "talk" screen. It didn't seem to affect the scene at all, and in the end TBD left.

This made me wonder if this scene was mandatory or if my further exploration gave me something not everyone saw. I figure it's part of the overall story and will pop up later, but could someone tell me (without spoiling me at all or mentioning any plot points about it) if this was mandatory somehow or if it was an extra?

Spoiler:
It's mandatory. The player could poke around that room all they like, but if they don't bring up that picture, Phoenix won't react and continue the story.

You'll see more context to it in the last case.

Btw, what is "TBD" short for? I'm sure I know who you're referring to, though.

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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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I wrote a 4,000 word review of the game for my blog; https://toatalireviews.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/review-phoenix-wright-ace-attorney-spirit-of-justice/. Hope this isn't too self-advertise-y, so TL;DR, I liked it.

EDIT: Should say it's very spoilerific, for every game in the series (except DGS)
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Last edited by Toatali on Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Spoiler:
Btw, what is "TBD" short for? I'm sure I know who you're referring to, though.


Spoiler: Case 3
The rebel leader that broke out of prison and lost his memory for a bit. The Prosecutor gave him the name that was basically "Anonymous TBD". (I don't remember how to spell the Anonymous part the way they do, and I don't want to go to the wiki because of spoilers; same with the prosecutor.)

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D.A. McCoy wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Spoiler:
Btw, what is "TBD" short for? I'm sure I know who you're referring to, though.


Spoiler: Case 3
The rebel leader that broke out of prison and lost his memory for a bit. The Prosecutor gave him the name that was basically "Anonymous TBD". (I don't remember how to spell the Anonymous part the way they do, and I don't want to go to the wiki because of spoilers; same with the prosecutor.)


Spoiler:
Nayuta calls him A'nohn Ihmus TBD(To Be Determined)
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D.A. McCoy wrote:
I get that it's AA and it has to have humor, but I don't think it really fits in the rest of the context surrounding the DC act and the grim nature of the trials here. I think he should stay serious and then the witnesses should be the humorous ones (like TBD, who I thought was pretty great)

Oh, I have a big counterpoint to this one. Consider for a moment how silly Khura'in and the DC Act actually is, and of course consider the Justice Minister's design (I mean, this bigwig is basically a central villain from the get-go). The whole thing screams "camp" and that's where the humor comes in. It's a premise that's so hard to take seriously at times (though I'm not saying it never works! Personally I'm super into it) they actually often use comedy to aknowledge how far out this is, I feel. That said, I think Sahdmadhi's jokes are super unfunny in general though. The rest of the cast fares better. But basically, every time they say something about "Death to attorneys!" you can't take it too seriously, and I'm pretty sure the game spouts this stuff with the tongue in the cheek just like Mr. Inga does.

It's basically like the same scenario as these new grimdark superhero movies. The best ones know to throw in some comedy now and then and a lot of people criticised the infamous BvS for having "characters that always look serious". To my knowledge it's better to have more humor the darker and grittier the overall tone is, unless you want the audience to feel depressed when it's over.
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linkenski wrote:
D.A. McCoy wrote:
I get that it's AA and it has to have humor, but I don't think it really fits in the rest of the context surrounding the DC act and the grim nature of the trials here. I think he should stay serious and then the witnesses should be the humorous ones (like TBD, who I thought was pretty great)

Oh, I have a big counterpoint to this one. Consider for a moment how silly Khura'in and the DC Act actually is, and of course consider the Justice Minister's design (I mean, this bigwig is basically a central villain from the get-go). The whole thing screams "camp" and that's where the humor comes in. It's a premise that's so hard to take seriously at times (though I'm not saying it never works! Personally I'm super into it) they actually often use comedy to aknowledge how far out this is, I feel. That said, I think Sahdmadhi's jokes are super unfunny in general though. The rest of the cast fares better. But basically, every time they say something about "Death to attorneys!" you can't take it too seriously, and I'm pretty sure the game spouts this stuff with the tongue in the cheek just like Mr. Inga does.

It's basically like the same scenario as these new grimdark superhero movies. The best ones know to throw in some comedy now and then and a lot of people criticised the infamous BvS for having "characters that always look serious". To my knowledge it's better to have more humor the darker and grittier the overall tone is, unless you want the audience to feel depressed when it's over.


Spoiler: put it in spoiler tages just to be safe
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the tone of the game itself should be super serious; as you pointed out, the game itself treats the scenario as a campy, over-the-top reality and the minister literally talks like a 1930's movie crime boss. But the prosecutor himself takes it super serious; that's his central characteristic. For me, it seems like he as a character would feel his ridiculous "hells" would undermine what he just said about "burning in hell for 50 million years). Unlike the DC act stuff which the characters take pretty seriously but the audience has fun with, these "hell of" jokes seem like something that even the defense in-universe would find to be ridiculous or a joke. I would have preferred it if they would have just left the joke after the seemingly-mundane adding millions of years to the Defense's sentence for stupid reasons. I think a lot of the humor of the game comes from the fact that the Kurain characters don't acknowledge what they're saying sounds ridiculous.

Of course, the "real" reason I don't like them is as you said: I didn't find them funny at all. There's probably a good chance that if the "hells" had been something a little more clever or witty I would have thought they fit perfectly.

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Spoiler: conceded
I just find that whenever the humor comes in form of inside-Khura'in humor it doesn't resonate, like when Nahyuta talks about 100s of years in hell or whatever or anything involving a name with lots of astrophes and "h"s in it that i supposed to sound ominous, which unfortunately is increasingly most of it throughout case 3 (where I'm at right now) but I thought the first case was excellent in its use of humor like you pointed out. Inga being a crime boss and Guitar Jesus and his metal-thrashery prose that perfectly matches up with the admittedly "METAL" material of Khura'in themes.

Really the problem here is the same as Lang talking anecdotes of his Lang-Zi or Courtney saying... something about a "Goddess of Law" all the time. It just doesn't really resonate and starts to get annoying when they increasingly delve into it. I think you're kind of right in the end that Nahyuta lacks a bit of something to give him a presence you fear. He's just very stale as a rival, as opposed to other elements of Khura'in that similarly cement the fact that Lawyers are losers that need to be punished.
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