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Episode five discussion threadTopic%20Title
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This is the discussion thread for DGS2 episode five, The Resolve of Naruhodou Ryuunosuke! Please use spoiler tags when discussing any plot points of the episode that haven't been officially announced.
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Re: Episode five discussion threadTopic%20Title
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Sarcastic comments on request

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Spoiler:
Hart Vortex is amazing.

Melchett: Ah, Blackadder! Still talking to yourself, I see.
Blackadder: Yes, it's the only way I can be sure of intelligent conversation.
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Happy Maria

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Spoiler: About an hour or so in, spoilers for that
Freaking heck, continuing from case 4 directly now? They're just stealing from DD at this point. At least they aren't taking the terrible aspects from it. Anyway this is hype, I expect Vortex to be the main evil guy (he's the main judge on this case with no jurors, come on) and if I get anything less I will be surprised.

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Thus, concludes my 11-month journey of playing this game on-and-off.

Spoiler: Case 5 Spoilers
So yeah, quite a lot to unpack in this case. Finally, we got an AA case where not the judge was the guilty party the whole time. And two of them nonetheless. The sudden investigation with Holmes was very short and sweet, and was a nice change of pace. Everything finally got tied up together, and yeah, Hart being the big bad was quite obvious, I mean, just look at him, but it was well-written enough so I don't mind. He did give me Damon Gant vibes, but I think the mystery was different enough to separate those two.

With that said, that last bit with Holmes was a bit over-the-top, even for AA standards. I mean really, Iris is so smart she creates holographic projections in the 19th century? I could maybe buy that in a mainline AA game where it takes places in the near-future (or entirely in the past as of 2019), but not quite in DGS. And like, are they really gonna take the word of some schmuck reading from a scroll he claims to be from the queen? Just have Holmes and the queen hidden in the crowd the entire time, and come out only when Ryunosuke tugs the ears. No need for weird holograms here. With that said, I did like the idea behind the twist, and felt having the ultimate authority, one who was mentioned at the beginning of every London based DGS trial, be the one to take down Hart felt very appropriate.

And as with case 4, the lack of a jury really stuck out here. As SC said, couldn't they have just been government officials? Considering how the opinions of the people in the crowd came into play several times, I felt like that role could have just as easily been filled by a jury. And them reacting to the hypothetical queen coming in scenario would have played out nicely I feel.

Goodbyes were very nice, left enough room for interpretation on the future while wrapping things up. It's a pity that a hypothetical DGS3 had to get rolled into DGS2. I don't think we really got as nice character moments in DGS2 as we did DGS1 as a result. And man, Maria was really underdeveloped. I think she got the worst of it when it came to this merger. I guess despite that, she still managed to leave enough of a impression on me to make me want more. Similarly, I feel Gina and Susato were kinda underutilized this game, only just being there. Ryunosuke's arc wasn't nearly as good as DGS1's either... but I'm happy with what we got with Asogi and Van Zieks. So all's well that ends well I suppose.
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Happy Maria

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Yaaaaaayyyyy

Spoiler: Finale thoughts
I pretty much agree with you there. The final JR was pretty splendid, and the fast pace contributes to a lot of it. Plus Yuujin/Holmes is a pretty great tag team. Tap dancing yaaaaaay

Yeah, Vortex was a bit obvious to me as well, which was just a pity. On one hand, I really do like how he masterminds everything without ever directly killing someone, and his motives were genuinely decent. On the other hand, I just found him so booooring before the reveal as a character, and the way he got taken down was genuinely garbage. I do not exaggerate when I say that's my least favourite final AA confrontation ever. Even worse than 1-2's and it never really addresses Vortex's motives and even the guys in the audience who supported him. Having a jury at the end would have been perfect thematically and it was just a wasted opportunity. I like your alternative much better in terms of believability as well. That said, the breakdown was pretty good.

The trial itself was also sort of underwhelming? I much preferred the case 4 witnesses overall. Jigoku's bit was fine but then they just start talking about the Professor all day and that's not nearly as fun.

Also yeah people got shafted at the end which was a pity but I liked seeing Sithe in the end. Was fun enough though.

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I wanted to see what you guys were saying about case 5 and all I see is spam.
Why am I even here?

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Happy Maria

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Dollarluigi wrote:
I wanted to see what you guys were saying about case 5 and all I see is spam.


Believe me, I'm just as disappointed.
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Spoiler:
*So Gregson's body was right there in that bag all through that casual hotel scene. EW. ...I love it.
*I also loved how that final piece of evidence had been inside Karuma all along.
*I think it was in this case Van Zieks said "Pray forgive the discourtesy of filling my hallowed chalice whilst I stand accused of murder". Definitely among my favourite quotes of his.
*"I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for the truth." I mean sure, but what a thing to say to your best friend during one of the most difficult times in his life.
*I'm not sure "UWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH" was the best way to put it when Kazuma thought he wouldn't be able to find the truth and not allowed to keep prosecuting. Before that "-RGH" I read it less like a scream in despair and more like something akin to a toddler having a meltdown, like he was about to throw himself onto the floor and pound it with his hands and feet, which I... assume wasn't the intention.

While satisfying to see everything come together, this case felt overly stuffed to me. Some of the information we learn could have come earlier and benefitted both this case and other ones. But that sort of goes for the entire duology - the first game is basically a slow start and this one goes from 1 to 1000.
Also, I've been thinking before that later games in the franchise tend to seem like their respective final cases are trying so hard to be maxed out, highest stakes ever, most personal connections and backstory-related stuff ever, etc etc, but this one takes the cake. And once Stronghart started screaming and Buckingham palace got involved I had to agree with Stronghart - the trial was becoming a farce. Him as a judge with his unicorn was fun though, I hadn't expected that.

Since it was already a direct continuation of case 4 they could just as well have made that cut a bit later, I feel. And/or added some more breaks to signal that this would take a while. That last bit of the trial just. Never. Ended. And sure, I still got through the whole thing in one go, so I guess it was engaging enough. Though more than anything I think that's evidence my medication is working.

Earlier in the game I had been thinking it would've been cool to have Sholmes as an actual investigation partner at some point, so it was a lot of fun to have that and getting to play as Yujin. Loved their deduction and Yujin's tapdancing. And the reveal with Jingoku was interesting, I wouldn't have expected that from a judge we'd seen since the very first case of the first game. What a vile man. And it put his timely tossing of Menimemo in a whole new light.

This was supposed to be Ryunosuke's crowning moment and I was playing as the guy, but really I was much more mesmerized by what was going on in the prosecutor's stand. Kazuma's flaws and struggles felt believable and to me, he's one of, if not the, AA-character that feels the most human. Which in contrast I think might explain while I wasn't as keen on Ryunosuke in this game as in the previous one - he suddenly felt more written, if that makes sense. Kazuma's prosecution-animations were great especiallly in how subtle they were (for AA-standards, at least).
His and Barok's dynamics were very interesting. I'd love to see how they got on after this. Their backstory/-stories were pretty typical AA-final-case-things, but it was done in a different enough way to not feel like just a rehash of previous final cases.

There were some nice moments after the case ended also, particularly Iris referring to Sholmes as her dad, Ryunosuke getting Karuma, and of course his and Kazuma's final locking of swords. It circled back pretty well to the start of the first game, beginning and ending with their bond. And, just like case 2 in that game, with them getting separated and Ryunosuke taking over Karuma, though in a much nicer way this time.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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