Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Adrian in black wrote:
I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm wrong, but I'm right?...
If you want to interpret it as the latter, knock yourself out. But ambiguity =/= canon, other than the fact that the ambiguous is ambiguous. I don't really see the Gumshoe thing as being ambiguous in 'that' sense, but then, that's what this awesome thread is for.
That's why I called this a 'discussion', despite the thread title. Crushing your argument to dust just because is not within my agenda. It's much more interesting to think about the way the game has been written to create 'debatable' content in the first place.
No I'm not trying to insinuate that the scene is the Definitive Proof of G/E or that I read it as such. There are a lot of things in the game which will be read ambiguously to some extent by various audiences, and they are never INTENDED to be the same to 100% of people.
I'll take the end of GS4 as an example. People argued to death about whether Phoenix should/could become a lawyer again. (Some of them either didn't want him to be, or thought he was too 'corrupted' now or something) Whatever happened in GS5 is irrelevant because it has no bearing on what was written for purpose of inventing GS4. That was a deliberate ambiguous statement. (on a wholly different level to weird Gumshoe scenes, which were just showing nobody is tried to be Proven 100% Canon Straight or even definitively paired for the most part.)
CatMuto wrote:
You just said GS1 didn't show much hint for them and you mention something from GS1 as proof?
GS1 is recontextualised by the later games, as I said earlier.
Quote:
I'm not denying that they are close, but I doubt they really love each other.
Urk.
I'm only assuming you mean 'romantic' love here, because um well...
Quote:
And Maya focusing on one thing to think about while being kidnapped means nothing. If you're in a bad situation, you generally try to focus your thoughts on something unrelated or different, so you don't have to mentally remember all the time that you are in such a bad situation.
Yeah yeah, like Phoenix is 'UNRELATED' to the situation. What? If she was disassociating she'd think about Steel Samurai or something (Actually NOT, with Engarde and all but you know what I mean). Phoenix is totally related to the situation. And also, Maya subverts the situation and any dis-empowerment it would otherwise cause to Phoenix. She's basically willing to risk sacrificing herself for his honour by telling her not to rescue her but get Engarde guilty.
She somehow keeps the faith he will find a way to instill justice/keep his own morals/honour/whatever by not faking Engarde's innocent verdict, AND somehow save her.
She has way more faith in his character than Phoenix does himself.
Quote:
You know how people always tell themselves - or others - in terrible, terrible situations (Rape, Kidnapping, etc) to 'leave their body'?
Oh the irony. Then why didn't Maya just CHANNEL THE ENTIRE TIME INSTEAD OF THINKING OF PHOENIX AND DRAWING CARDS. The one person who can just leave their body when they want to disassociate.
Quote:
I believe I have mentioned often enough how I dislike the entire Case of 2-4.
Personally I also actually think 2-4 is overrated, and the 'dilemma' was a bit off, but never mind.
Quote:
Yeah a picture she drew... which makes me wonder, where did she get the pen from? There was no pen in the wine cellar, and none in the VCR room next to it, so how could she draw that thing or even write the notes?
Not like we saw the entire VCR room, so I guess it was there somewhere.
Weirder is VCRs in 2019 or whenever it was.
Quote:
Err Nevertalk that seems like something that is perfectly within the bonds of brotherly or sisterly love in fiction.
Where do people get these 'siblings'? Sign me up for incest then. If that happens in fiction, (if indeed it does) the people, um ARE siblings REALLY.
Among a zillion other arguments, P-M get something no fictional siblings get: a load of people thinking they are a couple. They aren't, but nobody ever thinks they are 'siblings'. P/M is NOT canon, but the prospect of its 'potential' being raised is. Nobody decides they 'must be related' or something.
Now Edgeworth/Franziska I do NOT get as they ARE classic siblings to me. (Who cares if it's not genetic. But some people ship that, so whatever floats your... ship I guess.)
Quote:
And then they conveniently forgot that thing ever existed.
Doesn't matter. Phoenix didn't need a 'picture' to recognise Maya in 3-5, just his belief she didn't betray his trust by committing murder or abandoning him in court , because Maya doesn't keep the same visual form
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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icer wrote:
Doesn't matter. Phoenix didn't need a 'picture' to recognise Maya in 3-5, just his belief she didn't betray his trust by committing murder or abandoning him in court , because Maya doesn't keep the same visual form
.....when did Phoenix have to recognize Maya in 3-5 at all?
Spoiler: Case 3-5
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Spoiler: Case 3-5
C-A
You're thinking of you as a game player 'solving game puzzles', not Phoenix in his world undergoing psychological trauma. Sigh. The point is the symbolism of the writing. And if you didn't 'respond' the same way to the media, that just proves what I was saying earlier.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
Why does Phoenix need to get the card?
That's the point. The card is completely useless, it was mentioned at the end of 2-4 and then disappeared. It was like a red herring, almost like they said, "Hey, 2-4 didn't exist! You know that card? Never happened, so forget all about it~"
And yes, I mean that I do not see Phoenix and Maya having 'proper' romantic love for each other. A very big basis of trust, yes, definitely. But that does not automatically mean love or romantic feelings to me. Actually, I think trust would be more important than love.
And, overall, love has no place in the AA-verse.
I don't really get what you mean with the last bits. Maya and Edgeworth being, like, an opposite-mirror image of Dahlia and/or Iris... doesn't work with me. Each character is their own, not a "this is what could've happened" for another.
And I never did figure out that thing with Iris because I saw it from a gamer's perspective. I merely used my head, which has nothing to do with being a gamer.
Spoiler: Regarding Iris
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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icer wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Spoiler: Case 3-5
C-A
You're thinking of you as a game player 'solving game puzzles', not Phoenix in his world undergoing psychological trauma. Sigh. The point is the symbolism of the writing. And if you didn't 'respond' the same way to the media, that just proves what I was saying earlier.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
Woah..I never saw Phoenix/Maya like that! I may just have to ship them now.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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PhoenixFlame53 wrote:
icer wrote:
You're thinking of you as a game player 'solving game puzzles', not Phoenix in his world undergoing psychological trauma. Sigh. The point is the symbolism of the writing. And if you didn't 'respond' the same way to the media, that just proves what I was saying earlier.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
Woah..I never saw Phoenix/Maya like that! I may just have to ship them now.
My existence is finally justified!
LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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icer wrote:
You're thinking of you as a game player 'solving game puzzles', not Phoenix in his world undergoing psychological trauma. Sigh. The point is the symbolism of the writing. And if you didn't 'respond' the same way to the media, that just proves what I was saying earlier.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
Why does Phoenix need to get the card? The game plot gives us another graphic demonstration his belief in her won't be betrayed. (Which had a zillion times more impact than some dumb awkward scene where someone gets a card and they blush stammer and deny idiotically in a superficial manner.) The relationship might not be 'proven' 'romantic' but at least it's proven REAL, in direct contrast to certain other incidents of Phoenix's betrayal which were constructed (since GS2) as direct contrast.
Shippers don't need a cheesy confession scene that looks as fake as 'Dollie'. Maya's already given Phoenix the Magatama as a 'bond of trust' in 2-2 anyway, the analogue to the lying 'Poison Bottle 'love token' that accompanies Feenie's delusion. If Iris had turned up to court in 3-1 maybe Feenie would have recognised her over Dahlia. But she abandons him instead. The irony (these games are filled with it) is deliberate.
Takumi is a genius.
And then Iris abandons him again so Dahlia comes to trial. Yet again her loyalty to Dahlia ultimately overrides any dedication to Feenie. Pretty good Phoenix can believe it's 'impossible' Maya betrayed him by murdering and jumping off the bridge, you know like in 3-4 and Terry's misguided belief in his 'girlfriend'?
Except the belief is not unrequited this time, hence the critical reversal/turnabout of the trial. And Maya is indeed in the court, unlike 3-1.
That might be 'luck' on Maya's part, but it's really effected by Iris betraying Feenie's trust yet again, so it's basically justice/'karma'. Because Maya didn't betray him, not even in 2-4 when she was willing to demote her own interests of rescue/survival, as she does over and over in the series.
Now I think the Iris hate where she's said to be a 'Mary Sue' is incorrect. She has deep character flaws, but some dedication to her own 'ideals'. 'Unfortunately' they are ones completely incompatible with Phoenix's and her loyalty to them (and Dahlia) overrides her loyalty to Phoenix in general. The entire Dollie saga seemed to be a kind of nightmare backwards analogue to both Maya and Edgeworth.
That was...
beautiful.
fanfiction account c:
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Now for those of you who known me for awhile you'll know my two cents on Feeniris...But this morning something else hit me.
I may be biased about this but...If Iris truly did love Phoenix, why didn't she come clean to him about what she did and who she really was after Dahlia got arrested. As far as I know nobody and nothing was stopping her except herself.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Gale wrote:
I may be biased about this but...If Iris truly did love Phoenix, why didn't she come clean to him about what she did and who she really was after Dahlia got arrested. As far as I know nobody and nothing was stopping her except herself.
"Feenie, I have to tell you - I am Dahlia's twin sister and you met her in the courthouse in August, but whenever you met 'Dahlia' during those months until your trial was me. Yeah we switched places. So I am Dollie - I mean, I am Iris. I was playing Dollie. Meaning, Dahlia."
Yeah even the first bit would've been a bit hard to swallow, even for someone like Phoenix...
Then again, he swallows it pretty easily at the end of 3-5...
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
I may be biased about this but...If Iris truly did love Phoenix, why didn't she come clean to him about what she did and who she really was after Dahlia got arrested. As far as I know nobody and nothing was stopping her except herself.
"Feenie, I have to tell you - I am Dahlia's twin sister and you met her in the courthouse in August, but whenever you met 'Dahlia' during those months until your trial was me. Yeah we switched places. So I am Dollie - I mean, I am Iris. I was playing Dollie. Meaning, Dahlia."
Yeah even the first bit would've been a bit hard to swallow, even for someone like Phoenix...
Then again, he swallows it pretty easily at the end of 3-5...
C-A
I also find this peculiar.
Secret identical twins are usually a big no no for me. It feels...well I don't know, cheap.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Gale wrote:
Now that I think about it again...I'm suprised Iris was able to hide herself after Dahlia got arrested. I'm surprised the police didn't find Iris and were like, "Omigosh! Dahlia Hawthorne escaped from jail! D:"
I imagine they had Iris on file in the birth registry or something so she wasn't a surprise.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Gale wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention...I agree with Thane. Most of the time the long lost sibling cliche just makes me facepalm.
Thank you, you wonderful forum person. I like it when people agree with me.
No but seriously, while I dislike cheap attempts to spice up the story like that, I can understand why they'd add it. I mean, I was constantly expecting Iris to be Dahlia all along, so I guess they managed to fool me a bit.
Doesn't mean I like that idea, her motives, character or the dating explanation, but at least it wasn't a total fail for me.
I wasn't that big of a fan of that case anyway, to be honest. It was good, but I don't think it's the best in the series like a lot of people claim. I think the other two (or three if you include the Rise from the Ashes) final cases were better.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Thane wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention...I agree with Thane. Most of the time the long lost sibling cliche just makes me facepalm.
Thank you, you wonderful forum person. I like it when people agree with me.
No but seriously, while I dislike cheap attempts to spice up the story like that, I can understand why they'd add it. I mean, I was constantly expecting Iris to be Dahlia all along, so I guess they managed to fool me a bit.
Doesn't mean I like that idea, her motives, character or the dating explanation, but at least it wasn't a total fail for me.
I wasn't that big of a fan of that case anyway, to be honest. It was good, but I don't think it's the best in the series like a lot of people claim. I think the other two (or three if you include the Rise from the Ashes) final cases were better.
You done it again good sir...Because I agree with everything you just said, I thought I was alone for awhile since dissing T&T is kind of a sin on CR.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Gale wrote:
Thane wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention...I agree with Thane. Most of the time the long lost sibling cliche just makes me facepalm.
Thank you, you wonderful forum person. I like it when people agree with me.
No but seriously, while I dislike cheap attempts to spice up the story like that, I can understand why they'd add it. I mean, I was constantly expecting Iris to be Dahlia all along, so I guess they managed to fool me a bit.
Doesn't mean I like that idea, her motives, character or the dating explanation, but at least it wasn't a total fail for me.
I wasn't that big of a fan of that case anyway, to be honest. It was good, but I don't think it's the best in the series like a lot of people claim. I think the other two (or three if you include the Rise from the Ashes) final cases were better.
You done it again good sir...Because I agree with everything you just said, I thought I was alone for awhile since dissing T&T is kind of a sin on CR.
I like you, miss. I believe this is the beginning of a glorious forum friendship.
Why is it a sin to dislike something in Trials and Tribulations? I'm sort of new to this franchise so I might be a bit oblivious. I can say for certain however that I disliked almost every aspect of 3-3..Although I did like Cadaverini, and Jean Armstrong to an extent (I need la oils! - MY EYES!)
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Two guys asked me why T&T was my least favorite of the series when I first got here. :/
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Emiko Gale wrote:
Because some people here think T&T is godly and the flawless segment of the series.
Two guys asked me why T&T was my least favorite of the series when I first got here. :/
Two guys asked me why T&T was my least favorite of the series when I first got here. :/
So...
Why is Trials and Tribulations your least favorite game in the series?
I think I liked the first game the best, and the other two were equally good. I loved them all, but I just found the cases in the first game to be the most interesting. And since I played them all recently, I'm not blinded by any kind of nostalgia.
I must say though, I found Franziska to be a rather bland imitation of her father - who claimed her perfect record was intact even after losing. I just didn't get her, I guess. Oh well, it wouldn't be Ace Attorney/Japan without an abundance of teenage girls and geniuses.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Thane wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
Because some people here think T&T is godly and the flawless segment of the series.
Two guys asked me why T&T was my least favorite of the series when I first got here. :/
Two guys asked me why T&T was my least favorite of the series when I first got here. :/
So...
Why is Trials and Tribulations your least favorite game in the series?
If I may give my opinion to that question as well...
I personally thought T&T was superfluous and unnecessary to the series as it focused heavily on the Fey Clan. A clan that we've heard about in GS1 and GS2, made now much more important in GS3 - although, frankly, we already learned pretty much everything we needed about the Fey Clan in GS2.
Playing as Mia was a neat little feature, but nothing great... (especially found it dumb that she was explained about the Game Mechanics, although she said she was not a complete rookie to the trial part of a case)
The characters introduced in GS3 were also pretty superfluous. The impersonation case was not very important, so ignoring that one, it was the first game that had a giant story in the background. Which was apparent in the cases 3-1, 3-4 and 3-5. 3-2 does not really count, although it does introduce us to Godot.
But the bad villain of GS3 can be pointed out as soon as 3-1 finishes.
And I have mentioned before why I believe 3-5 is the worst case in the series.
Plot twists were too easy to figure out way before they happened, the motives were stupid, the whole crap regarding how something was supposed to happen... that just cemented into my head that GS3 was basically a giant game to advertise the Fey Clan.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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~I dislike Godot.
~The first case kind of contradicted what Phoenix said in the first game and I don't like younger!Phoenix.
~Dahlia could've been a better villain.
~Phoenix/Iris is overhyped and so is Iris because her character development revolved around Phoenix and Dahlia.
~Tigre is the worst villain in the series. (To me he is.)
~And I could be wrong but there may be some moments in the game where Phoenix acted like a whiny little b!tch.
~Something bugged me about case 3-2 but I can't remember.
~Same with 3-3 even though I actually liked this case.
~Cliches.
I guess I love the first game too much.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Gale wrote:
~And I could be wrong but there may be some moments in the game where Phoenix acted like a whiny little b!tch.
Pretty sure that was the entirety of 3-1.
I enjoyed T&T, and I liked the Fey clan stuff. I disagree that it was unnecessary... toward the end of JFA case 2, you knew some kind of showdown was coming, because Morgan wasn't going to take Maya's acquittal lying down. I think they might have approached it in a different manner, rather than bring in some twins Morgan randomly had before Pearl. Or they might have handled the twins plot a little better.
3-1 had a good introduction, and then... they brought in Phoenix. Or rather, some kid wearing Phoenix's face and hairstyle, dressed in a ridiculous sweater, and sneezing and coughing into a mucus-filled medical mask. It was an unconvincing caricature of the guy who was introduced three years earlier--and don't get me wrong, I know some folks can change drastically in three years, but whatever that thing was, that was bawling at the witness stand was not even remotely recognizable as Phoenix, at least not to me. And don't get me started on the forced relationship with "Dollie."
3-3 was the other case that made me cringe, and out of all the AA games (AAI included), I've played this one the least. (But then, being sexually harassed by Jean Armstrong would make anyone not too eager to pick it back up. Which is a shame, since I liked seeing Maggey with Gumshoe again...even if that turned sour for nearly the entire case.)
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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At the end of case 3-5 that picture inside the master's talisman just didn't phase me.
Ok...Maybe we should get back on topic. ^^;
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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I just wished they'd given more closure to Mia and Misty. I just felt like Misty didn't care about Mia since she was focusing everything on Maya. Or maybe that's just me.
Involving 3-5 though, I still can't seem to look at Phoenix/Maya or Phoenix/Edgeworth as lovers. To put their amount of trust to one another be leveled just as lovers kind of ruins it for me. For the former, I see them as siblings while I see the latter as brothers or they have a relationship similar to roommates.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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char13happy wrote:
I actually liked 3-5. Maybe not as much as my love for 1-5 but it's pretty much in my top 5.
I just wished they'd given more closure to Mia and Misty. I just felt like Misty didn't care about Mia since she was focusing everything on Maya. Or maybe that's just me.
I just wished they'd given more closure to Mia and Misty. I just felt like Misty didn't care about Mia since she was focusing everything on Maya. Or maybe that's just me.
I want to know why Misty couldn't have come back. She claims she disgraced the Fey clan with that incident, yet Sister Bikini made it clear that their reputation began to recover after the trial in Turnabout Goodbyes, in which her channeling powers were proven to not be a sham. So what was preventing her from going back to see her daughter? Or her village, the one she's the master of?
char13happy wrote:
Involving 3-5 though, I still can't seem to look at Phoenix/Maya or Phoenix/Edgeworth as lovers. To put their amount of trust to one another be leveled just as lovers kind of ruins it for me.
I second this. Whether or not Phoenix and Maya
This is usually the part were some overzealous fangirl/fanboy chews me out and tries to justify their claims.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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sumguy28 wrote:
char13happy wrote:
Involving 3-5 though, I still can't seem to look at Phoenix/Maya or Phoenix/Edgeworth as lovers. To put their amount of trust to one another be leveled just as lovers kind of ruins it for me.
I second this. Whether or not Phoenix and Maya
This is usually the part were some overzealous fangirl/fanboy chews me out and tries to justify their claims.
Justifying claims is what this thread is all about, though.
I won't chew anybody out, but it's interesting to mention "amount of trust" as though it were some barrier to romance. If one can't trust their lover, someone they're intimate with on multiple levels, then what's the point of being together (at least, if they consider themselves to be in a meaningful relationship)?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
I want to know why Misty couldn't have come back. She claims she disgraced the Fey clan with that incident, yet Sister Bikini made it clear that their reputation began to recover after the trial in Turnabout Goodbyes, in which her channeling powers were proven to not be a sham. So what was preventing her from going back to see her daughter? Or her village, the one she's the master of?
No, no, see it's the shaaaame~ The shaaame is keeping her away! She's so ashamed! Or some other self-mutilating reason as that, is my guess. Unless she knew Morgan was thinking of killing her off, if she set foot into the village again.
As for trust in a relationship, yes it's important.
But I think building up a bond of trust is more important than falling in love with someone. I think it's too easy to fall in love with someone... Although major reason why I don't like the idea of Phoenix and Maya as a couple is mostly because it's such a typical cliché idea and it's just dumb.
"Oh look, two people of the opposite gender working together! They must be in love! I will ship them!" which is how I generally think those kind of pairings crop up. Mint and Cless were the first two party members and were alone on their journey for about 1 hour - the sewers and then after the mausoleum until they meet up with Klarth - and people already began to ship them there. Sera and Noel are the only two human party members in XIII-2 and they must totally be shipped together because... because one has boobs and the other has a penis, that's why. They can't just be friends... it's an impossible notion!
Sorry, I went on a rant there... what I mean is, it doesn't matter to me if Maya were a different person. Even if she was a character I loved, I still wouldn't want to see her in a romantic relationship with Phoenix. Why not just let them be friends that have a bond of trust that could prove better than romance?
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Just don't assume that's the reason we P/M fans ship them because that's just being judgemental.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
The Sera and Noel example is especially bad in my eyes seeing as throughout the entire time, Sera is engaged already. Besides those two had zero chemistry be it romantically or just as a team.
Right? Even if Sera wasn't already engaged, I doubt those two could get anything going romantically. There's just nothing in common there except a semi-goal, and even then the reason was different for both.
Quote:
Just don't assume that's the reason we P/M fans ship them because that's just being judgemental.
I'm not. Although I do know that there are people out there who ship P/M or other pairings just for the reason because they are of opposite genders.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Emiko Nabile Gale wrote:
And? Sometimes yaoi fans ship yaoi pairings for the most ridiculous reasons, I don't despise them for it.
I originally mentioned Yaoi fans shipping guys for silly reasons. I don't do that, I don't look at two guys and think "OmG they'll totally bone each other!" Nah, they need to have something going on beforehand.
And I don't hate the people who ship for no good reason. I just think the fact that they ship that pairing for no good reason that gets to me.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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sumguy28 wrote:
char13happy wrote:
Involving 3-5 though, I still can't seem to look at Phoenix/Maya or Phoenix/Edgeworth as lovers. To put their amount of trust to one another be leveled just as lovers kind of ruins it for me.
I second this. Whether or not Phoenix and Maya
This is usually the part were some overzealous fangirl/fanboy chews me out and tries to justify their claims.
Finally! I thought I was the only one who thought this!
Cat Muto wrote:
Why not just let them be friends that have a bond of trust that could prove better than romance?
THIS! You are officially my hero!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Emiko Nabile Gale wrote:
And? Sometimes yaoi fans ship yaoi pairings for the most ridiculous reasons, I don't despise them for it.
I originally mentioned Yaoi fans shipping guys for silly reasons. I don't do that, I don't look at two guys and think "OmG they'll totally bone each other!"
....
<_<
>_>
*slowly raises hand*
I've actually done that with Phoenix/Edgeworth.
Which is one reason I shipped them less after the games, as I learned the true nature of their relationship.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Adrian in black wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Emiko Nabile Gale wrote:
And? Sometimes yaoi fans ship yaoi pairings for the most ridiculous reasons, I don't despise them for it.
I originally mentioned Yaoi fans shipping guys for silly reasons. I don't do that, I don't look at two guys and think "OmG they'll totally bone each other!"
....
<_<
>_>
*slowly raises hand*
I've actually done that with Phoenix/Edgeworth.
Which is one reason I shipped them less after the games, as I learned the true nature of their relationship.
So wait you saw them before with no idea about who they were or their relationship and just paired them up?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
So wait you saw them before with no idea about who they were or their relationship and just paired them up?
Nah, I knew who they were, prior to getting into the series. I had fandom friends who would joke about the relationship, but I then I saw a bunch of yaoi drawings on the internet and thought, "shit, that's hot."
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sumguy28 wrote:
I want to know why Misty couldn't have come back. She claims she disgraced the Fey clan with that incident, yet Sister Bikini made it clear that their reputation began to recover after the trial in Turnabout Goodbyes, in which her channeling powers were proven to not be a sham. So what was preventing her from going back to see her daughter? Or her village, the one she's the master of?
Because she's still the one who disgraced the Fey clan. It wasn't her who restored the image, it was Mia and Phoenix. The 'disgrace' was based on the incorrect information, but Misty is still the one who decided to channel for the court in the first place, which isn't exactly sensible. Of course ghosts can lie.
Misty seems to be psychologically disturbed.
char13happy wrote:
I second this. Whether or not Phoenix and Maya and/or Edgeworth are lovers is up to interpretation, but I feel the story works much better were their relations no more than platonic.
You mean: works better for YOU.....
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Adrian in black wrote:
Pierre wrote:
So wait you saw them before with no idea about who they were or their relationship and just paired them up?
Nah, I knew who they were, prior to getting into the series. I had fandom friends who would joke about the relationship, but I then I saw a bunch of yaoi drawings on the internet and thought, "shit, that's hot."
Kind of the opposite for me.
I sort of knew about Ace Attorney, but didn't really know it. Reading VGR's recap and them pointing out all the sexual subtext and innuendo talks, I really thought Edgeworth and Phoenix had at least some history going on. Then I played the game and ship them even more now, because I see that the innuendoes and all are there.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
Pierre wrote:
So wait you saw them before with no idea about who they were or their relationship and just paired them up?
Nah, I knew who they were, prior to getting into the series. I had fandom friends who would joke about the relationship, but I then I saw a bunch of yaoi drawings on the internet and thought, "shit, that's hot."
Kind of the opposite for me.
I sort of knew about Ace Attorney, but didn't really know it. Reading VGR's recap and them pointing out all the sexual subtext and innuendo talks, I really thought Edgeworth and Phoenix had at least some history going on. Then I played the game and ship them even more now, because I see that the innuendoes and all are there.
C-A
And I play the game without any real knowledge of it and didn't see them at all.
Perhaps it's a priming effect. People before they play have some things highlighted and pointed out and are told it's sexual subtext or see yaoi pictures beforehand and approve of the relationship.
Then they go into the game expecting to see things.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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