F: I know we've asked this many times, but anybody can jump in and enjoy the game right?
E: Exactly. Mr.Yamazaki made it a point not to include text that is only interesting to series fans. The text will be interesting to everyone, but fans will enjoy it a bit more.

F: If there's a "series" centered joke, newcomers may feel left out, right?
E: Yeah, they'll think "What's so funny about this...?" and feel left out. You need to keep this in mind when reintroducing characters. It's okay for series newcomers to think a recurring character is an AA5 character. There's also nothing wrong with people liking a character in AA5, then learning that said character appeared in a previous game.

F: There's definitely a type of enjoyment in that too.
E: Take Edgeworth for example. People playing AA5 might think "Who is this guy? How can someone like this really be the chief prosecutor!?". But of course, within the story of AA5, Edgeworth plays his part appropriately. Maybe one of the new players will say "I have an iPhone, I'll play AA1." and see that Edgeworth was once simply a prosecutor as well.

Anyway Pearl being yet another teen (17 yo) sidekick seems to confirm Maya will be mentioned. I suspect it's a convenient way to cover the Maya issue without having to show her though, now she's past her Teen Something In Training With Magical Gimmick phase. Why we need so many of them I'm not sure. I hope Athena doesn't have a tragic past with a missing parent who was a psychologist or something....

(the DVD Scene) Takumi said it was Maya.
But yes it was just an Easter egg so the new writers can ignore it (or never notice it in the first place)

The fact Maya had disappeared without trace by Apr 19/29 2019 is... inexplicable however. The credits of GS3 say she was going to keep being the Assistant General Manager of Wright and Co AND Kurain Master, so the fact she's 'too busy' to see him again henceforth is contradicted by the actual canon. Furthermore, Maya and Phoenix cameo together in both GK1 (March 2019) and GK2 (April 2019). Maya is still in the city with Phoenix by Apr 6, the same month as the fatal 'disbarring'. When you put such a major character on a bus, you write the bus okay? The fact it's turned into some Anything Agency with magicians and psychologists as well makes it even stranger they can't just add Spirit Mediums to the list. Also I don't believe Mia wouldn't have left the office to Maya as well anyway. People need some kind of explanation when such an important character just vanishes. So therefore it's irrelevant if her main plot was indeed tied up in GS3.

Speaking of pairs… [Eshiro begins to laugh] I have to ask about Maya, because Phoenix has a new partner. You bring in new characters all the time, but will we see Maya at all in the game? ME: As far as Maya is concerned, I’ll tell you the same thing we tell the Japanese press, which is that you’ll just have to play the game and find out.

Cheap tricks...

I'm hoping he doesn't mean what I think he did... but I think he did *sighs*

THIS IS HUGE FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO KNOW SCROLL AT YOUR OWN RISK.








































































































http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQ90RrHbe8

I forget how to embed if we can at all. Here is a/the letter from Maya in GS5
There it is... that is it. I am sad and upset. Video poster said it says that Maya is asking how he is doing and about the steel samurai dvds she sent. I dunno if someone wants to shed light on it in some other way. I feel so deflated.

GS5 OH NOOOOO












I don't really call a spoiler when it's about something NOT in the game....

Yeah it's what I always expected... up until the stupid Eshiro guy started falsely raising our hopes by not answering questions properly just so people would 'buy the game to find out'. I always did think Pearl was more likely evidence they wouldn't return Maya at all and 'in her place' but I hoped I was just being cynical not right. I hate to think some people aren't spoiling this and will buy the game only to be disappointed. It will detract from them being able to enjoy the game for what it is. Worse that some people 'spoil' this by claiming it's a 'flashback'. People then think it might be a flashback case or something, (why she left before the MASON sequence???) not a sepia-toned picture.

But I only consider it semi-canon anyway, along with AAI to be perfectly honest. 'Maybe' it happened. Takumi intended GS3 as an end.. then intended GS4 as an end... enough that he just wouldn't write a GS5... As for these writers they clearly couldn't be bothered doing anything that required more effort. (Even the characters that get to 'return' seem to have been handled superficially, even people like Trucy.)

So now I've seen that she's redrawn the Nick card, it all makes sense! Maya has been locked up or captured again, [metaphorically speaking? the writers don't care 'where' she is anyway so long as she's offscreen and not required to influence their plot] :P i hope it hasn't been for 8 years.

And Phoenix saw it this time. Not sure what to make of that. I think it's only an Easter Egg in relation to 2-4 from the writers' perspective, but we can reinterpret their intention however, I guess....

edit: Hey, isn't the Nick pictured updated with his front hair thing? The video is sort of blurry? I would have said that's 'proof' she's seen him 'in the last 8 years' (he was NOT wearing his hat 24/7 all that time!) but he could have sent a photo...... it's more Easter Egg status from their end anyway.

Anyway it's a cheap easter egg, makes them both look like they're ostracising each other (or Maya's ostracising him) and Maya can't be bothered with him in such a bad way for who knows how many years. But the writers just don't think about that, just like they don't think how it makes Phoenix look bad to not tell Apollo and Trucy they're siblings. That too wasn't continued so that 'doesn't exist' in their story comprehensions of Phoenix's behaviour. Friend/Shipper logic tells us that Maya drawing Phoenix and him even getting to see it means it's 'important', much like her sincerity of feeling in 2-4. From this reading it's a very touching gesture from Maya's end, especially since she's not withholding it this time and the very obvious symbolic link. However, from the writers' logic we have utterly no idea. The connection could be way more superficial, although surely they must have some idea it's invoking 2-4? You can't tell with them.

Phoenix in-world wouldn't connect it to 2-4 though, since he never got the card.

It's a way better Easter Egg than GS4 since it better communicates an actual meaningful connection by invoking 2-4 from Maya's end (the DVD scene was a bit selfish really, he's a disbarred hobo and all she does is make him watch Steel Samurai instead of helping?) and says her name, but it's still a cheap excuse to keep her on the invisible bus yet another game.

As for the rest of the game, there is info I have NOT CONFIRMED

-Supposedly there's another 'anonymous letter' at the 'end' of case 2 which someone thinks is from Maya. Nobody has told me more about that or how it's shown. Let's hope they're right. Nobody's ever answered my queries for further info on this. If anyone can find out....

-off this thread

http://www.forums.court-records.net/vie ... 4#p1213074



I tell you now, it doesn't mean 'Maya will be in GS6' (if indeed it's actually made). Don't get excited at all, please. They ret-conned out her entire end from GS3 after all, not to mention a lot of stuff from the end of GS4 in general that seemed to be implied.... (Even the jury vanished without a trace!) Pearl can't be said to speak for Maya anyway.

It's like we discussed a bit earlier in this thread, GS is increasingly formulaic when it comes to chaarcterisation/characters, and the writers probably think the Maya fans are placated with a different 17-yo spirit medium, since all those assistants have to be Teen Girls In Training. (Maybe they rationalise is the player is self inserting on the protagonist and likes all these teen girls hanging around them? I have no idea how they interpret the situation...) You have to take actual effort to return them in a different manner, like the beleaguered Ema (who's simply vanished by this game). Pearl herself (and people like Klavier and even Trucy) was more a super-cameo than a main char anyway, from what I've read.

Since Maya never left, just disappeared one day by the 'flashback trial' , well yeah. I don't know why this series thinks post-GS3 it can fail Basic Continuity 101. Take Ema for example. She's the detective in GS4 and her credits are all talking about Golden Snackoos. Clearly there's no sign her plot is resolved or she 'might' be leaving somewhere else. Well by GS5 she's just vanished probably because the writers needed a new detective for their plot they came up with. It would have been so simple to close her plotline by having someone vaguely mention 'the previous detective left for Forensics' or something. Then the players know what's happened to her and her plot has resolution. We don't have to wonder where she is and they don't have to deal with her, we don't mind much she's not on screen now as there's a properly plotted and reasonable reason. If she just vanishes, it pushes our suspension of disbelief. With an even more major character like Maya, it's worse.

I remember when I played GS2 the first time. I was thinking it probably wouldn't be as good as GS1. But when Maya came back near the end of 2-1 and I realised they were CONTINUING ACTUAL PLOT AND CHARACTERISATION CONTINUITY FROM GS1 I just freaked out in excitement. It's a major reason why I, and I suspect a lot of other people, liked the series, and now they get ripped off that each game doesn't do this properly any more. GS5 isn't a proper 'AJ2' either.

Icer you are wonderful at expressing yourself and you are totally correct.

I am happy to have my imagination and others who like to imagine with me.

The game totally does have that formula now especially and I think that is why I love the first games so much because it doesn't fall into that formula totally.

Anyway I'm not very good at this and I'd only be half coherent and you have already said everything so wonderfully.

Really, nobody else seems to be spoilering? Oh well guess we're alone in our discussion....
I keep seeing people posting on other sites about how they wonder if Maya's in the game and aren't spoiling for some reason. I'm not sure why not. Why just be disappointed? I know I'd just spend the whole game wondering if she'd turn up and be too distracted. And without an actual ENG release date there's ages to wait.

So I think people really did interpret Eshiro's marketing spiel as that she really would be in the game, in a proper spoiler-worthy role. That's what's worse than the scene I think, him just telling people to buy the game and find out, so he's making money out of her fans without even bothering to put her in the game. Because he knew that's not what people meant when they ask that. I wonder if they are actually unaware people, um, did want to see her? Not like that? I get this sense the GK writers have no idea whatsoever about what people liked about the previous games.... even including GS4...

Oh well hopefully we actually will get PL vs PW in English sometime before 2020... hanging out for that one!

What bothers me the most about the letter is the fact that it appeared that Phoenix and Maya had little to no contact during these eight years. It sounded like Maya had heard about him getting his badge back; he hadn't told her.

I'm glad they didn't include Maya if they couldn't think of a worthy role for her, but I at least expected the letter to be somewhat...I don't know...more satisfying? Just something along the lines of 'I'll come visit you again soon' would have been enough.

Yeah they could have very easily done the scene so Maya had been around more recently (in between GS4 and this game) and only left since the action shown in the actual game, rather than trying to imply she really hasn't seem him OR HEARD FROM HIM since at least before 4-4. I mean come on, that's worse than what we could 'compensate with our imagination'. Where the heck can she be that Phoenix can't write back? Seriously, if they'd written she was on a Spiritual World Tour it'd make sense, (dumb, but perfectly reasonable, WHY NOT?) but I don't think they say where she is at all.

I thought of something though, Maybe this 'is' after the Bad End of GS4 (which does exist ) You probably can't 'prove otherwise'. The jury (and direct references to it) disappeared and everything in GS5. Although I suppose Apollo might have been a bit more traumatised if it was though. (still a few months HAVE passed). Basically in the bad end Vera dies, the jury was hung and so probably a 'failure' but Phoenix's name had already been cleared. Still, it's all a pretty bad incident the whole jury trial in the bad end which Phoenix probably wouldn't want to talk about...
Of course the WRITERS aren't thinking that, they probably assume THEIR game story is after the good end but we can always pretend whatever we want in our heads so long as it doesn't outright contradict canon. I doubt Vera's existence is ever mentioned. The Bad End to GS4 isn't non-canon, we can CHOOSE it ourself if we want to just by selecting the verdict. (Is that game ever.. weird) Oh and in the bad end I think we never find out about Thalassa and since it's not in the game about Apollo finding his mother....

It's pretty damn unclear when the game is set because it doesn't give a year. Logic dictates that the 'December' in GS5 is in the same year as GS4's 4-4 in 'October'. They talk about 8 years but they talk about 7 years in GS4 which started in APRIL, by now we're getting closer to 8 so they'd round up to the nearest year to show time passing. I don't believe GS5 is in December of the year AFTER GS4. That's way OVER 8 years by then, there's no reason to timeskip that long in general. I really don't think Maya would go 14 months without knowing Phoenix was re-barred, even if she was absent. I'm hoping the DLC case will shed more light on the situation since it's supposedly Phoenix's 'first trial back'. We know Pearl APPEARS in the DLC case even if it's just for a second. It will at least tell us a date. Maybe 'November'. It all makes more sense for this game to be shortly after GS4's end not 14 months later.

In general I don't think (waiting on precise wording) the game ever directly implies Maya hasn't seen/heard from him for 8 years, but at most the duration of GS4. (she could have sent him more DVDs since the scene in that game anyway.) She asks if he got his badge back but that could have been retaking the bar exam not the Jury Trial. (Though why PEARL didn't tell Maya that Phoenix has his badge back is another plothole, since Pearl is in the DLC case his first case back set BEFORE the letter and so PEARL knows he does have his badge again. What? Pearl isn't able to talk to Maya either? It doesn't make sense. I hate how they're too cheap to even make these types of non-cameos logical.)

Why the heck she was vanished by mid April of the 'disbarring' is still the world's biggest plothole which was again not touched on in this game. I think they don't say what Edgeworth was doing back THEN either. It's like Maya's done a Misty and 'disappeared' with no return address. And well, the whole POINT of GS1-3 was that wouldn't have to happen for the next Master? sigh.

We can only hope Maya will be featured in a DLC case, which is a likely possibility at this point. Like I've said before, Maya not appearing in Dual Destinies is fine by me if the writers couldn't think of a way to connect her to the story - however, she doesn't need an excuse like that in a standalone case.

I'm still a bit miffed about the letter; it could have been done so much better, but oh well, there's no use in complaining I guess. It just baffles me that they didn't play more on nostalgia and that Phoenix wouldn't have mentioned anything about getting his badge back to his best friend.

These writers just don't understand the difference between meaningful use of past characters and worthless cameos as far as I can tell. They are incapable of understanding interaction between characters especially based on past games. They're all like little puppets they maneuver for the story they want to tell, not the characters themselves dictating the writing. Well that's what somebody told me about GK2 anyway. It might be an exaggeration, but since AAI's writing of actual characterisation... lacked.... it'd be fine if that was how the series had always been, but as a follow up to how it was historically, yeah it's just detracting from the previous games, since they keep claiming they follow on the way GS1-3 did. Even though they don't, not the same way.

I mean their response to people missing the old characters in GS4 wasn't anything useful just AAI which featured stupid cameos of every minor character of the day we didn't really need to see again, not actual character development. A tiny scene with proper nuances can tell a million words. The ones they write tend to be a waste of time. AAI was always pitched as a kind of side series so their substandard characterisation wasn't as bad. As for the so called continuing of the main series, not so wise.

But at least we're lucky it's a step up from GS4. It's a pretty much identical cameo except framed in a far better manner (since they say her name and actual emotive intent is better communicated, especially with the picture. Why that couldn't have appeared in GS4 instead I don't know.) Still, it's all because the writers don't care and can't be bothered. It doesn't even make logical sense, as I said. They didn't invest much time or thought into it. Maya isn't 'in Kurain'. Maya's on the big bus in the sky, where even Pearl doesn't talk to her when they don't want her to. And since her getting on the bus was never written it taxes our suspension of disbelief. Why don't they just admit it's an official reboot and forget maintaining superficial cameos to link the new games to previous ones?

DLC? I wouldn't get my hopes up. They won't. You can hope that Maya gets mentioned indirectly by Pearl. I do NOT see them bothering to do a proper modelling and non-superficial plotting of Maya for a DLC case, not unless there is a MAJOR DLC case made IN LIEU of a GS6, like another 1-5. You know, a kind of half game which is almost the status of a new title in the series? And I don't see it happening even then. Not unless you go and convince these people it's the hook that would sell the thing. That's the ONLY reason she'll come back, and why people like Phoenix and Apollo (and cameos like Klavier) get 'returned' in the first place. If Maya returned even as a cameo, they'd reason, they WOULD Have to think up some convoluted explanation of where she's been all this time (probably including why she's just vanished by late April 7/8 years ago). And they can't because it's all incomprehensible. If it was just avoided in the main title, it's even less likely they'd try to confront such a huge problem in DLC. (All that's not a true excuse, of course, everyone would be delirious if Maya turned up and they just acted like friends and just don't mention the supposed past, but the writers probably think all that as an excuse to ignore her.)

Now look if you're really lucky Takumi might be encouraged to make a DLC case, and that has a better odds of actually having her (since Takumi would more likely write his own characters). BUT the chance of Takumi doing a DLC case is just a daydream of the fandom. It's not impossible but it's just a kind of wish. I doubt Capcom will tell him to do it, when the new writers can 'write DLC cases' as far as they're concerned.

To be honest I'm not sure the new writers are used to this kind of game. Aren't they more to do with traditional mystery/crime writing? In that it's not about positive relationships between characters. It's just about the pieces of the mystery like pawns and people getting murdered. Actual characterisation is superficial. Takumi's games were unique and just 'happened' to fit within that genre as a setting. Of course they're 'trying' to copy Takumi's style... but they're never going to do as good a job of it. That isn't so much their 'fault', it's Capcom who decide the series will be extended forevermore this way anyway, even when Takumi kept deciding it was finished from HIS end. And of course Capcom would never let them reset with a real new cast. No doubt the GK writers could have written a better title if they'd had the creative freedom to write some new game about Athena without any of the old lawyers hanging around or having to emulate Takumi's style/formulas at all.

What I wish they WOULD do, is do a proper remake of the older games, even just the iconic first game, with the 3DS technology. Am I alone in this? It doesn't need Takumi around either. There might need to be some small modifications, but that's only a good thing because it doesn't make it a total cakewalk for the old players.

Even though we don't get any real Maya magic in Dual Destinies apart from that letter she wrote to Nick, I'm glad to see her back and better than ever!

Maya also shows up in a flashback.

Yeah I know. but I was really looking forward to actually seeing her, as the Master of Kurain. Not just in a sepia toned photograph.