least favorite case? : Defendant's Lobby

Re: least favorite case?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:11 pm

Thane

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dimentiorules wrote:

The only games in the series to have a clean placement of cases are GS1 and GS4. All the other ones have the order that you play them in be different from the chronological order. GS2's chronological order of cases was 2, 1, 3, 4. GS3's order was 4, 1, 2, 3, 5. GK1's order was 4, 2, 3, 1, 5.

While you've got a point, you can't deny that both Dual Destinies and the spin-off series have a much more unnecessarily convoluted timeline. Just look at the Dual Destinies timeline:

Case 2 -> DLC -> Case 3 -> first half of case 4 -> case 1 - > second half of case 4 -> case 5.

It's just confusing and adds absolutely nothing to the game.

Re: least favorite case?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:26 pm

JesusMonroe

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The DD timeline wasn't that confusing to me. I actually think it added to the game to have Case 1 in the middle of Case 4. The one with the most confusing timeline to me was GK1

By the way, GK2 has a chronological timeline

Re: least favorite case?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:13 am

dimentiorules

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JesusMonroe wrote:

The DD timeline wasn't that confusing to me. I actually think it added to the game to have Case 1 in the middle of Case 4. The one with the most confusing timeline to me was GK1

By the way, GK2 has a chronological timeline

What? It does? But I heard that there was a flashback case in which you play as Gregory Edgeworth! Unless it's the first case.... I'm confused, since I've never played GK2, all I know about it is from what other people have said about it.

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Re: least favorite case?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:51 am

JesusMonroe

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dimentiorules wrote:

JesusMonroe wrote:

The DD timeline wasn't that confusing to me. I actually think it added to the game to have Case 1 in the middle of Case 4. The one with the most confusing timeline to me was GK1

By the way, GK2 has a chronological timeline

What? It does? But I heard that there was a flashback case in which you play as Gregory Edgeworth! Unless it's the first case.... I'm confused, since I've never played GK2, all I know about it is from what other people have said about it.

The flashback case is Case 3, but you play as Miles and Gregory. The flashback portions are Tateyuki relaying the story to present Miles

Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:06 pm

Thane

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I've reached the conclusion that 5-5 is, in my opinion, the worst case in the main series. While 2-3 is boring and confusing and 4-3 makes no sense, 5-5 is just an utter disaster in both logic and structure, and it tries too hard to be an epic finale even though the twists are lackluster to say the least.

Now let's ignore the fact that I first posted this on the "least favorite character thread"...

Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:32 pm

shippersdreamer

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Thane wrote:

I've reached the conclusion that 5-5 is, in my opinion, the worst case in the main series. While 2-3 is boring and confusing and 4-3 makes no sense, 5-5 is just an utter disaster in both logic and structure, and it tries too hard to be an epic finale even though the twists are lackluster to say the least.

Now let's ignore the fact that I first posted this on the "least favorite character thread"...

Yeah I gotta agree, 5-5 wasn't that great of a case compared to some of the other ones out there...

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Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:13 pm

dimentiorules

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I've never actually finished 5-5 because I simply got bored of it, it couldn't really hold my attention. I have ADHD, so I get bored really easily. The only GS games I've actually finished are GS2, GS3, and GK1. I couldn't finish GS1, GS4, or GS5 because I got tired of them. I HATE it when I figure out things about the plot of the case LONG before the characters do, and they make us wait and deliver so much fake suspense when I already know what's going to happen. An example would be 4-3, where I figured out that the igniter was used to torch the guitar the moment the igniter first appeared in the case, while the characters don't piece that information together for another 3 hours of gameplay time. It infuriates me how they think we can't piece together simple information.

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Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:04 pm

CatMuto

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Quote:

I HATE it when I figure out things about the plot of the case LONG before the characters do, and they make us wait and deliver so much fake suspense when I already know what's going to happen. An example would be 4-3, where I figured out that the igniter was used to torch the guitar the moment the igniter first appeared in the case, while the characters don't piece that information together for another 3 hours of gameplay time. It infuriates me how they think we can't piece together simple information.

Ahahaha, yeah that's terrible. Especially if they reveal something you figured out hours before and everybody acts like it's a giant plot twist. That igniter? Kinda obvious. Then again, that case is well-known for being stupid. One, the defendant. Two, the game early on practically TELLS you who did it.
"Find the guilty party" indeed!

Also, Elise... I dunno, am I the only person who looked at her and instantly knew?

Also... why does the AA-verse think it's ACTUALLY possible and reliable evidence saying that somebody would be incapable of shooting a gun/pistol with their non-dominant arm? It's not that difficult to shoot a freaking gun. Especially a 22-caliber or other pistols. Those are quite... well, normal. All you gotta do is pull the trigger. YES, there's a chance of injuring yourself, if you shoot with your arm that isn't used to it... but still.

C-A

Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:12 pm

Thane

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dimentiorules wrote:

I've never actually finished 5-5 because I simply got bored of it, it couldn't really hold my attention. I have ADHD, so I get bored really easily. The only GS games I've actually finished are GS2, GS3, and GK1. I couldn't finish GS1, GS4, or GS5 because I got tired of them. I HATE it when I figure out things about the plot of the case LONG before the characters do, and they make us wait and deliver so much fake suspense when I already know what's going to happen. An example would be 4-3, where I figured out that the igniter was used to torch the guitar the moment the igniter first appeared in the case, while the characters don't piece that information together for another 3 hours of gameplay time. It infuriates me how they think we can't piece together simple information.

While that was really annoying, I was more disappointed with the characters. Everyone seemed to blindly accept everything without any sort of proof, especially when it came to Phoenix's reasoning. I remember in 1-2 where you have to fight really hard to prove that the wiretapping was relevant to the case, and you had to use several different pieces of evidence to prove it. Here, Phoenix comes up with a theory and everyone's like "ohmigosh! that must be true!"

Spoiler: 5-5

But the worst thing of all is...

Spoiler: 5-5

I apologize for having to use he spoiler tag on this part of the forum.

Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:09 pm

CatMuto

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Thane wrote:

Spoiler: 5-5

So you're saying that 1-5 is a ridiculous case?

Spoiler:

C-A

Re: least favorite case?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:16 pm

JesusMonroe

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Thane wrote:

While that was really annoying, I was more disappointed with the characters. Everyone seemed to blindly accept everything without any sort of proof, especially when it came to Phoenix's reasoning. I remember in 1-2 where you have to fight really hard to prove that the wiretapping was relevant to the case, and you had to use several different pieces of evidence to prove it. Here, Phoenix comes up with a theory and everyone's like "ohmigosh! that must be true!"

Spoiler: 5-5

But the worst thing of all is...

Spoiler: 5-5

I apologize for having to use he spoiler tag on this part of the forum.

Spoiler: Turnabout for Tomorrow

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:10 am

Thane

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JesusMonroe wrote:

Thane wrote:

While that was really annoying, I was more disappointed with the characters. Everyone seemed to blindly accept everything without any sort of proof, especially when it came to Phoenix's reasoning. I remember in 1-2 where you have to fight really hard to prove that the wiretapping was relevant to the case, and you had to use several different pieces of evidence to prove it. Here, Phoenix comes up with a theory and everyone's like "ohmigosh! that must be true!"

Spoiler: 5-5

But the worst thing of all is...

Spoiler: 5-5

I apologize for having to use he spoiler tag on this part of the forum.

Spoiler: Turnabout for Tomorrow

Spoiler: 5-5

No, that explanation won't cut it.

First of all, Edgeworth had been working on freeing Blackquill for a very long time. When he shows up, he gives Phoenix photos, the autopsy report, tells him about the murder weapon and says he has police files. If there was a "cover up", he wouldn't have those things nor know about the Phantom, and the video tape in question would have been destroyed after Blackquill was proven guilty. It was most likely sent to the room we see in 1-5 where evidence is kept, and being the Chief Prosecutor, Edgeworth would've been able to come and go as he pleased. Also, even IF (and this is a very big if) he hadn't seen the footage himself, he would've requested a break to have a look at the footage himself once Phoenix brought up the recording. It's too bad I can't remember when or where you get the tape...I'll have a look.

However, my point still stands; the so-called cover up is a failure of an explanation on every level. There's no way Edgeworth wouldn't have been able to get his hands on the tape himself. And if he against all odds couldn't obtain it, he would've reacted VERY differently in court once he saw it.

As for Phoenix, he did have to prove something! Apollo suspected him of bluffing, and with good reason. Besides, you don't just bring people to court because of your intuition; you need something that ties them to the case, something Phoenix didn't provide. He had a psyche report of an unknown man, and that was it. If he had requested to check the ladder for damage, fingerprints or anything like that, it would've been a different story. Now we just see Apollo backing off immediately without any reason, which ruins the confrontation completely.

I won't deny the fact that Bridge to the Turnabout has some flaws (the pendulum thing is a joke), but it's overall an amazing case. Turnabout for Tomorrow, on the other hand, has more holes in it than a swiss cheese. Let's not also forget the awful hostage situation and the blatant copying of 1-5 (with some 2-4 and GK 2-5 elements thrown in for good measure)

Update: Edgeworth brings up the video tape on numerous occasions, both before and during the trial (in his opening statement, no less). It's being presented as evidence, so claiming he doesn't have access to the recording would be wrong.

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:18 am

dimentiorules

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I have one question that I want you to answer, Thane. How exactly is 5-5 a carbon copy of 1-5? I've never completed either of them, but I don't really see too many similarities between them.

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Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:22 am

JesusMonroe

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Thane wrote:

Spoiler: 5-5

No, that explanation won't cut it.

First of all, Edgeworth had been working on freeing Blackquill for a very long time. When he shows up, he gives Phoenix photos, the autopsy report, tells him about the murder weapon and says he has police files. If there was a "cover up", he wouldn't have those things nor know about the Phantom, and the video tape in question would have been destroyed after Blackquill was proven guilty. It was most likely sent to the room we see in 1-5 where evidence is kept, and being the Chief Prosecutor, Edgeworth would've been able to come and go as he pleased. Also, even IF (and this is a very big if) he hadn't seen the footage himself, he would've requested a break to have a look at the footage himself once Phoenix brought up the recording. It's too bad I can't remember when or where you get the tape...I'll have a look.

However, my point still stands; the so-called cover up is a failure of an explanation on every level. There's no way Edgeworth wouldn't have been able to get his hands on the tape himself. And if he against all odds couldn't obtain it, he would've reacted VERY differently in court once he saw it.

As for Phoenix, he did have to prove something! Apollo suspected him of bluffing, and with good reason. Besides, you don't just bring people to court because of your intuition; you need something that ties them to the case, something Phoenix didn't provide. He had a psyche report of an unknown man, and that was it. If he had requested to check the ladder for damage, fingerprints or anything like that, it would've been a different story. Now we just see Apollo backing off immediately without any reason, which ruins the confrontation completely.

I won't deny the fact that Bridge to the Turnabout has some flaws (the pendulum thing is a joke), but it's overall an amazing case. Turnabout for Tomorrow, on the other hand, has more holes in it than a swiss cheese. Let's not also forget the awful hostage situation and the blatant copying of 1-5 (with some 2-4 and GK 2-5 elements thrown in for good measure)

Update: Edgeworth brings up the video tape on numerous occasions, both before and during the trial (in his opening statement, no less). It's being presented as evidence, so claiming he doesn't have access to the recording would be wrong.

Spoiler: Case 5

Edgeworth mentions the videotape in his intro because he knows of it, but he doesn't have access to it. I'd assume the tape was part of the trial data (the tape is first brought up by Fulbright himself earlier, but he tells Phoenix he can't see the footage because he doesn't currently have it). There was a cover up, but I'd assumed that Blackquill was the one who told Edgeworth about his hunt for the Phantom. I'll admit outright that there was a half-assed explanation for the cover up, but there was an explanation. Plus, the evidence room in 1-5 was for violent crimes involving police staff. The murder at the Space Center is on a different level. It's like a federal crime in a highly restricted area. Even a Chief Prosecutor couldn't get his hands on it. They didn't have access to the evidence until it was provided for the trial. As for why Edgeworth didn't call a recess and watch it, I don't know. He didn't call a recess in 1-5 to watch the tape with the Blue Badger either. He saw it for the first time during the trial (and it was evidence he more realistically should've had access to since he was the Prosecutor for the case and it was lower profile. I like 1-5 more than 5-5 for the record)

In the Ace Attorney universe, you really don't need that much evidence to bring someone in. Like in Turnabout Big Top, they had a hat and no footprints, so they arrested the guy with the hat that had the stage ability to fly. In this, they have non-crushed leaves, a jump, and an emergency escape ladder, so they QUESTION the guy who could've utilized the escape route, who didn't have the fear that would've made him unable to make the jump, and who knew about the ladder beforehand. They also know that the Phantom probably used the ladder because there was no reason for him to otherwise take out the stairs. Apollo knew Phoenix was bluffing, but like I said, he just wanted some possibility that his friend was innocent (I would've liked the confrontation to go on longer, though). Phoenix provided enough circumstantial evidence (well, I don't know how valid leaves are as evidence, but he did have the Psyche report written by a professional)

I agree the hostage situation was shitty as hell and didn't need to be in the case, though. I also agree that there are many similarities between 5-5 and 1-5 (though the similarity to 2-4 is minor. What do you think is similar to GK2-5, by the way? The killer reveal?). However, I just generally like the mystery and tragedy in 5-5 more than 3-5. I do appreciate 3-5 for closing the door on the Fey storyline in an appropriate manner, though, the same way GK2-5 closed off Edgeworth's.

I'm not saying I think 5-5 is SO MUCH better than 3-5. If I made a top 10, 5-5 would be number 4 and 3-5 would be number 5 (though I have a dark horse opinion because I'd probably put AAI-3 in my top 10, which many have said it was one of the absolute worst cases ever.I also like Turnabout Ablaze a lot. Please don't kill me...) I just don't think Turnabout for Tomorrow is the worst case by a long shot, especially compared to cases like 1-1 or 2-1 with no emotional attachment and can be beaten in 10 minutes

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:19 am

tiger_festival

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dimentiorules wrote:

I have one question that I want you to answer, Thane. How exactly is 5-5 a carbon copy of 1-5? I've never completed either of them, but I don't really see too many similarities between them.

I'm guessing this:

Spoiler:

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:26 am

Sligneris

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Complaints, complaints never end.

I'm starting to question why the people who apparently don't like the game are still around the fan forums of its series, if they dislike it that much.

I mean sure, there are flaws and they might be mentioned once or twice in a review but bringing them up over and over again is getting kinda boring.

There are similar elements, but there are also lots and lots of differences. So what? Similar or not, I really don't believe that being all that different is all that defines case's quality.

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:40 am

JesusMonroe

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Sligneris wrote:

Complaints, complaints never end.

I'm starting to question why the people who apparently don't like the game are still around the fan forums of its series, if they dislike it that much.

I mean sure, there are flaws and they might be mentioned once or twice in a review but bringing them up over and over again is getting kinda boring.

There are similar elements, but there are also lots and lots of differences. So what? Similar or not, I really don't believe that being all that different is all that defines case's quality.

Exactly.

The case still had a very intriguing murder, a fantastic villain (in my opinion), and at the end, we saw the characters complete their arcs and end up further than where they started.

1-5 didn't have space, robots, spies, and nightmare fuel

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:02 am

Sligneris

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Unless we count Gant as nightmare fuel.

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:13 am

SuperAj3

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dimentiorules wrote:

I have one question that I want you to answer, Thane. How exactly is 5-5 a carbon copy of 1-5? I've never completed either of them, but I don't really see too many similarities between them.

I'll try explaining how I understand the cases as being 'carbon copies'.

At the risk of spoiling DD, I'll use spoiler tags.

Spoiler: DD Spoilers

Sorry for all the colours, but it helped me try and make the links clearer.

Personally I liked case 5, probably the best out of the non DLC cases. But the game wasn't as strong overall as the others. Turnabout Big Top is still my least favourite though. I'd make Turnabout Serenade my least, because I hated Klavier's cry baby attitude, but It was relevant to the plot.

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Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:26 am

Cravat of Doom

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Sligneris wrote:

Complaints, complaints never end.

I'm starting to question why the people who apparently don't like the game are still around the fan forums of its series, if they dislike it that much.

I mean sure, there are flaws and they might be mentioned once or twice in a review but bringing them up over and over again is getting kinda boring.

There are similar elements, but there are also lots and lots of differences. So what? Similar or not, I really don't believe that being all that different is all that defines case's quality.

Come now, Sligneris, we're in the "least favourite case" thread-- it's to be expected that people talk about what they don't like. :ron:

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Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:32 am

JesusMonroe

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Cravat of Doom wrote:

Come now, Sligneris, we're in the "least favourite case" thread-- it's to be expected that people talk about what they don't like. :ron:

While this is a fair point, I think Sligneris was saying he was getting tired of people complaining about the same thing over and over

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:20 am

Sligneris

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Yeah, pretty much. Fine enough, this thread might be a fitting place for something like that, it was just it kinda gets a little bit frustrating over time.

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:22 am

CatMuto

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Quote:

I'm starting to question why the people who apparently don't like the game are still around the fan forums of its series, if they dislike it that much.

Well, since I am someone who complains about various things in the game, I feel I need to explain. I have a love-hate relationship with this game. The idea of the game, and message in some of the cases, is nice and fun, it can be quite entertaining. I just find the execution of it pretty bad.

Yes, the game is made for a broad audience, not just for people like me who know their law and take it seriously. But the AA-verse takes a dump on even the tiniest of laws that an amateur would know about. Or if they bring in "real life law" it's for one-case-only, which just confuses people and makes it stick out like a sore thumb, in a bad way.

As I said before: I like the message that Phoenix has in 2-4. The execution is annoying. Then again, it's not just AA that has me annoyed when it constantly tells me, "No! Remember that person that got kidnapped! I cannot do anything! Oh God, I feel terrible, I cannot concentrate on this!" and I just want to tell them to Fuck that person and do their fucking job. Twilight Princess does it with Ilia and the kids, neither of which I cared about and Skyward does it throughout because of ZELDA and I care even less for her than Ilia...

Although I will give AA points for having Maya kidnapped at a later point and not barely a case after the player gets to know then. Then again, it could be that this is a "problem" for me, since I started the games by playing Justice For All, so I really only knew Maya for 3 cases before she was taken. Even if I read recaps and playthroughs of the first game's cases.

C-A

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:45 am

Thane

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Sligneris, you're jumping to conclusions as always. I love Ace Attorney; it's one of my favorite video game franchises of all time, which is exactly why I feel upset when there's a bad case. You're also on the "least favorite case" thread, where you're bound to run into some complaints. If it makes you feel any better, I can say that I absolutely adore the other final cases in the (main) series, and Turnabout Reclaimed is almost on that level of quality. That said, I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining, I'm discussing this with fellow fans because I enjoy debating, even though I'm lousy at it. You, on the other hand, are not contributing to the discussion in any way.

Dimentionrules, Sumguy28 is correct. Bad Player summed it up perfectly.

As for JesusMonroe

Spoiler:

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:17 pm

Sligneris

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Then I'll just enjoy my non-contributive self, helplessly trying to redeem some aspects I liked, which, as I can understand from what some people are writing here all over the forums, I shouldn't like

Re: least favorite case?

Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:38 pm

WaitingforGodot

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Sligneris wrote:

Then I'll just enjoy my non-contributive self, helplessly trying to redeem some aspects I liked, which, as I can understand from what some people are writing here all over the forums, I shouldn't like

But they aren't bashing you for your personal tastes and fancies, are they? I never heard anyone say that other people shouldn't like the certain aspects and cases you enjoy. It sounds like you take it somewhat personally, the fact that people complain about various matters, but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, people here think that everyone is entitled to their own opinions - they are complaining about cases, not the people who like them. For example: I was bored by case 1-3, but I understand why people like it, and more importantly, I don't look down on people who don't share my tastes and I certainly hope and think the same goes the other way around.

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Re: least favorite case?

Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:33 am

JesusMonroe

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Thane wrote:

I enjoy debating, even though I'm lousy at it.

Spoiler:

Don't talk down to yourself like that. You're good at this

Spoiler:

I don't know if that's the wrong time stamp, but that was the photo taken by the reporter. It wasn't part of the security footage (now that I think about it, shouldn't the reporter have been caught on camera?)

Blackquill was a fellow Prosecutor so Edgeworth probably met him at some point (he met Godot when he was a new Prosecutor, so maybe he meets all the new people? I don't know). Maybe Edgeworth got to know him and knows that he couldn't commit murder. Maybe Edgeworth knew that there were a lot of details missing from the trial and smelled foul. Anyway, the reason Edgeworth had access to the photos is because the case just reopened due to the new Space Center bombing. He didn't have access to the info until he actually could access it

I think Phoenix had some pretty reasonable proof it was the Phantom. First of all, did they ever suspect Athena of the bombing, or just killing Clay? If they never suspected her of the former, then it wouldn't be far fetched at all for them to think the Phantom is the murderer because of a separate incident at the Space Center where it was bombed again. Plus, Cosmos mentioned the phone call, so it was knowledge at that point that the Hat-1 was sabotaged and that the Phantom was going to bomb the Space Center again (they brought Candice Arme, who specialized in bombs). If they were only suspecting Athena of killing Clay during the confusion of the bombing, then when Phoenix proved a possible escape route, everyone also had merit to believe someone who was at the Space Center could've utilized it. Apollo accepted it because he was doubtful but now, the facts line up to him. All of his reasons for suspecting Athena (his bracelet reacting and the security camera in Boarding Lounge 2) were proved and possibly proved to be moot. Edgeworth accepted it because it's possible he believed in Athena on some level, the same way he believed in Sota in GK2-2 when all of the evidence pointed towards him

But for the record, I was thinking it would've been a better twist if Clay was the Phantom and Athena/Aura killed him out of revenge. Also, what part of the case reminded you of GK2-5?

Re: least favorite case?

Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:01 am

Nearavex

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During the trial, it's Fulbright who presents the footage. I'm still looking for the part, where it's first added to the Court Record. But still, the first thing Edgeworth says during investigation?

"I gathered all the information I could in the short time I had."

Re: least favorite case?

Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:24 am

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

JesusMonroe wrote:

Thane wrote:

I enjoy debating, even though I'm lousy at it.

Spoiler:

Don't talk down to yourself like that. You're good at this

Spoiler:

I don't know if that's the wrong time stamp, but that was the photo taken by the reporter. It wasn't part of the security footage (now that I think about it, shouldn't the reporter have been caught on camera?)

Blackquill was a fellow Prosecutor so Edgeworth probably met him at some point (he met Godot when he was a new Prosecutor, so maybe he meets all the new people? I don't know). Maybe Edgeworth got to know him and knows that he couldn't commit murder. Maybe Edgeworth knew that there were a lot of details missing from the trial and smelled foul. Anyway, the reason Edgeworth had access to the photos is because the case just reopened due to the new Space Center bombing. He didn't have access to the info until he actually could access it

I think Phoenix had some pretty reasonable proof it was the Phantom. First of all, did they ever suspect Athena of the bombing, or just killing Clay? If they never suspected her of the former, then it wouldn't be far fetched at all for them to think the Phantom is the murderer because of a separate incident at the Space Center where it was bombed again. Plus, Cosmos mentioned the phone call, so it was knowledge at that point that the Hat-1 was sabotaged and that the Phantom was going to bomb the Space Center again (they brought Candice Arme, who specialized in bombs). If they were only suspecting Athena of killing Clay during the confusion of the bombing, then when Phoenix proved a possible escape route, everyone also had merit to believe someone who was at the Space Center could've utilized it. Apollo accepted it because he was doubtful but now, the facts line up to him. All of his reasons for suspecting Athena (his bracelet reacting and the security camera in Boarding Lounge 2) were proved and possibly proved to be moot. Edgeworth accepted it because it's possible he believed in Athena on some level, the same way he believed in Sota in GK2-2 when all of the evidence pointed towards him

But for the record, I was thinking it would've been a better twist if Clay was the Phantom and Athena/Aura killed him out of revenge. Also, what part of the case reminded you of GK2-5?

Spoiler:

Re: least favorite case?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:01 pm

JesusMonroe

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1546

Thane wrote:

Spoiler:

Spoiler: =

Re: least favorite case?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:08 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

JesusMonroe wrote:

Thane wrote:

Spoiler:

Spoiler: =

I believe I'm done. You're avoiding my questions and are fervently denying whatever I say regardless of how I put it and what kind of proof I provide. It's better to let this discussion die.

Re: least favorite case?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm

JesusMonroe

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1546

Thane wrote:

I believe I'm done. You're avoiding my questions and are fervently denying whatever I say regardless of how I put it and what kind of proof I provide. It's better to let this discussion die.

Wait, what? All the "proof" you've shown so far (the video footage that was actually a photo at 17 minutes in) is either irrelevant or non-existent. And I'm not "fervently denying" what you've said so far. I've made concessions (unlike you).

As for avoiding questions, what? I've answered all the questions you've put forward and when I just responded with answers AND examples that are worse than the video tape in other cases, you end the discussion.

I'll admit the discussion was going in circles. I was getting tired of talking about it as well, but don't act like I haven't been responding well to your posts. If you want to end it, all you had to do was say you wanted to end it. Don't point fingers and call the kettle black, though

Re: least favorite case?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:11 am

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

I only skimmed through your spoiler thingies, you two, but it did seem like one was pointing out how Edgey apparently had no realy access to this or that evidence, while the other repeatedly asked "Can you prove that he didn't at that point?"
Just saying, that's what it looked like to me.

C-A

Re: least favorite case?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:51 am

Nearavex

Y'know

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Posts: 787

To me you both kinda seem to behave "you don't have proof, so my not proven theory is correct".

What we should think about is - did Edgeworth behave like someone who had already seen the video?

Re: least favorite case?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:03 pm

JesusMonroe

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1546

CatMuto wrote:

I only skimmed through your spoiler thingies, you two, but it did seem like one was pointing out how Edgey apparently had no realy access to this or that evidence, while the other repeatedly asked "Can you prove that he didn't at that point?"
Just saying, that's what it looked like to me.

C-A

That's why we weren't go anywhere. She/he asked, "Can you prove your theory is correct?" when she couldn't even prove her own. Instead of admitting that, she just claims I dodged questions and fervently denied her (even though I made concessions and she didn't). The argument was just reiterating the same points over and over again so I don't care that it ended, but I felt her last comment wasn't true and hypocritical

I don't really care so we can all drop it.