Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
Greener, please don't double-post. If you need to add something, just edit your previous post. Though I do understand if it happened by mistake, it's happened to me before.
dude sorry it was accident
so does anyone want to comment on my views on dahlia and kristoph?
also i know they ain't similar (except for same age irony much), but people always pair villians. Several times to heroes, like Link x Dark Link, one of fanfiction's most popular yaoi pairing.
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Greener223 wrote:
so does anyone want to comment on my views on dahlia and kristoph?
I pretty much offered my opinions above. There wasn't really anything I could add.
Greener223 wrote:
also i know they ain't similar (except for same age irony much), but people always pair villians. Several times to heroes, like Link x Dark Link, one of fanfiction's most popular yaoi pairing.
As for the idea of just pairing them because they're villians, that makes as little sense to me as pairing up a couple of characters because they look pretty together. (Admittedly, yeah, my OTP looks smokin together, but that's just a nice side benefit.)
Sometimes villians and adversaries go well together, but not always for me. And some of us like the protagonist paired with an adversary or bad guy. (I think that's part of the instant appeal for Phoenix/Miles, and I remember how Harry/Draco was so massive in the HP fandom.)
I take it as it comes with individuals' characterisations. Sometimes I see villians going well with other villians, but it's not a given or a rule for me.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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i also think i saw a few dozen dumblewald stories too
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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LadyLuckDoubt wrote:
Sometimes villians and adversaries go well together, but not always for me. And some of us like the protagonist paired with an adversary or bad guy. (I think that's part of the instant appeal for Phoenix/Miles, and I remember how Harry/Draco was so massive in the HP fandom.)
Some other examples of protagonist/antagonist relationships are Light and L from Death Note, and Train and Creed from Black Cat :D
This sort of pairing seems to be really popular, but I have never really understood why. I do understand why Kristoph (hey, this is a Kristoph thread) and Apollo are sometimes paired together though - The whole Kristoph taking advantage of Apollo because he is younger/smaller/his protogé.
Also, fanart:
Spoiler:
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
LadyLuckDoubt wrote:
Sometimes villians and adversaries go well together, but not always for me. And some of us like the protagonist paired with an adversary or bad guy. (I think that's part of the instant appeal for Phoenix/Miles, and I remember how Harry/Draco was so massive in the HP fandom.)
Some other examples of protagonist/antagonist relationships are Light and L from Death Note, and Train and Creed from Black Cat :D
This sort of pairing seems to be really popular, but I have never really understood why. I do understand why Kristoph (hey, this is a Kristoph thread) and Apollo are sometimes paired together though - The whole Kristoph taking advantage of Apollo because he is younger/smaller/his protogé.
Also, fanart:
Spoiler:
I don't get Light/L until they start getting friendly in about the 4th episode. Then there's potential, I guess, but I never shipped it.
And I don't always like it. But sometimes when people obsess over people they're meant to loathe, it looks a bit suspicious. ;)
With Kristoph/Apollo, I see it as a thing where Apollo is all fanboyish and desperate to please his mentor, and Kristoph is like, "Heh. I'll take advantage of/control that." I mean, Apollo is very enthusiastic.
Also, that fanart? Is utterly gorgeous. Yum.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Cute artz <3
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Apollo was just a pawn in the whole Turnabout Trump thing until he spoke out and said that the cards weren't re-ordered by any of the identified people. After that came Wright to the rescue and the two guys took down Kristoph.
Hooray for Apollo!
And yes, your art is good, but i thought of andrews at one point.
Seriously, look:
strange much
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Yay, Kristoph fan art. Need moar
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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perfume...links to mascara, lipstick and nail polish, so weird, though the lattermost makes sense
but will SOMEONE respond to what i say!?
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Greener223 wrote:
why do people ignore me?
... I'm not actively ignoring you, I just don't have anything to add to what you've said.
I can imagine Kristoph working in the make up and perfume section of a department store :D
No, no, a fancy boutique!
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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MUHAHAHAHHAhAHA!
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
Greener223 wrote:
why do people ignore me?
... I'm not actively ignoring you, I just don't have anything to add to what you've said.
What she said.
As for the department store thing, I see him as being more into ties and sharp suits and stuff. While he loves his nail polish, he goes for clear himself... and as for shoes-- his are REALLY UGLY.
I can see him waxing lyrical on colognes and perfumes, though. He's a psychological manipulator, and scent is a strong psychological trigger thing, and I think he'd be aware of that and play it to his advantage. (Says she of the insanely massive BPAL collection. ;) )
Now I'm wondering what sort of cologne the guy would wear. My vote's for something light and breezy and ozonic and likely gender-neutral like Davidoff's Cool Water or CK One. I can't see him going with anything overly strong and heavy, or ostentatious. And I think imitation perfumes would make him want to hurt people.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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LadyLuckDoubt wrote:
As for the department store thing, I see him as being more into ties and sharp suits and stuff. While he loves his nail polish, he goes for clear himself... and as for shoes-- his are REALLY UGLY.
I don't think his shoes are that bad. They look like everyone else's to me, except in white. Why someone would wear white shoes is beyond me, though.
Greener223 wrote:
And then he locks people inside and blows the place up!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
Kristoph's not a sadist, Greener.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Greener223 wrote:
And then he locks people inside and blows the place up!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
No... My Krissi would never do that...
At least, not without a good reason.EvianBubble wrote:
Hrmm, I have heard of Light / L, I've never really actively liked this pair but don't hate it either. I'm currently waiting for something to push me in one direction or the other, lol.
Don't get me started on Light/L. I'll just say that my I really like that pairing, and leave it at that. ;)
...and there's fifteen feet of pure white snow
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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I was watching a thing where in a store everyone there got catapulted out by floorboard springs, and that thought came to mind.
Now ask yourself a similar question:
If it wasn't Kristoph, but instead Dahlia, would SHE have done what I said?\
And reason? HE'S THE DEVIL'S RIGHT HAND!
...ok, calm down, Greener, you don't wanna get banned again...
*sigh*
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
Greener223 wrote:
And then he locks people inside and blows the place up!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
MUHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
Kristoph's not a sadist, Greener.
See, I don't think he'd use explosives because he's got (to some degree) sadistic tendencies. Sadists like seeing their work in action and experiencing it and dragging it out. An explosion? Is quick, removed, and lacks the "hands on" and personal touch.
Blowing up a place? Messy, obvious, and impersonal. Slowly screwing with someone's mind and destroying them? More his style. Killing someone in cold blood in a perfectly subtle and non-obvious manner? Bingo. (I'd argue his efforts on the Mishams weren't "personal" but more because they were a liability to him if they stayed alive. But his treatment of Phoenix and Zak were VERY different and he could have gone a quick-and-impersonal route with them but chose not to.)
He kills for his own reasons, usually related to control and satisfying his ego: he's self-assured enough to not go doing something like blowing up a building for attention or to show people how much power he has... quite simply, he doesn't need to.
Also, Kristoph is cunning. As well as being unstylish, an explosion on a large scale is very obvious and potentially leaves evidence which he can't control-- not to mention witnesses. Canon's shown us that he's extremely cautious and well-thought-out with his attempts on people's lives and that he tries to evade detection.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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He puts the chemical used for L-pills into the perfume, and he also sells some kind of pill that does something for people to look nice (not BC pills) but in reality are L-pills.
is that an idea, or did i just spout bullshit again?
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Greener223 wrote:
O W8 I have a less sadistic idea
He puts the chemical used for L-pills into the perfume, and he also sells some kind of pill that does something for people to look nice (not BC pills) but in reality are L-pills.
is that an idea, or did i just spout bullshit again?
He puts the chemical used for L-pills into the perfume, and he also sells some kind of pill that does something for people to look nice (not BC pills) but in reality are L-pills.
is that an idea, or did i just spout bullshit again?
what are L pills and BC pills?
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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IMO Kristoph's not sadistic, because sadists like to see their victims in pain - they may torture and mutilate them for hours before killing them, whereas Kristoph didn't. They like to hear their victims scream and struggle against them, and sadists like to feel like they have overpowered their victims. Most sadists also get some sort of sexual pleasure from inflicting pain. As far as I know, none of this applies to Kristoph. And because I don't think he's sadistic, I don't think he'd blow stuff up.
And like Snow said: What are L pills and BC pills?
Last edited by RoundedEdge on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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BC pills, you really don't wanna know.
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
Arson and blowing stuff up is a sign that the person may develop sadistic tendencies later in life.
I haven't heard that specific about arson or blowing stuff up before... from what work's shown me, younger arsonists seem to have abandonment and abuse issues, and a difficulty with processing difficult emotions.
RoundedEdge wrote:
IMO Kristoph's not sadistic, because sadists like to see their victims in pain - they may torture and mutilate them for hours before killing them, whereas Kristoph didn't.
That was because if he'd done any of those things, he would have been risking getting caught... and I believe if Kristoph has sadistic tendencies, he's also (until the breakdown) reasonably well-controlled, and would keep a tight rein on them to avoid getting into trouble.
RoundedEdge wrote:
They like to hear their victims scream and struggle against them, and sadists like to feel like they have overpowered their victims. Most sadists also get some sort of sexual pleasure from inflicting pain. As far as I know, none of this applies to Kristoph. And because I don't think he's sadistic, I don't think he'd blow stuff up.
That's the thing for me that makes me think "Yeah, I can see it": his control issues-- in combination with what appears to be an antisocial personality. While it isn't explicitly stated in canon, I don't think it's at all a far stretch (and fandom seems to have picked up on it, too, funnily enough). I think his toying with and trying to destroy Phoenix was suggestive of his desire to watch someone suffer and have control over them.
(In all fairness, though; we don't see ANYTHING to indicate anything about the characters' sex lives because it's irrelevant to the storyline. So it's all up to speculation and analysis of the bits of their personality that we do know about.)
But I agree, I don't think he'd blow stuff up; I've just come to that conclusion through a different route. :)
RoundedEdge wrote:
And like Snow said: What are L pills and BC pills?
BC pills-- I thought Birth Control?
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Spoiler: Further reason I don't think Kristoph's sadistic
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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RoundedEdge wrote:
@ LLD - I can see what you mean when you say that Kristoph could be sadistic, but I'm still not convinced. I recently read a book about sadistic killers, and they all seem to be a lot more extreme cases than Kristoph. If he was sadistic, it would have started building up seven years earlier at the very latest (the Magnifi case, because he plans to kill Drew Misham then), and by the time 4-1 takes place, he would have either been caught sadistically killing, or he wouldn't have enough self control to not torture before killing.
Spoiler: Further reason I don't think Kristoph's sadistic
I think it's possible to have sadistic tendencies and be able to control them, though. (The Mishams were very impersonal-- it was like it was "just business" rather than motivated by much else, like personal enjoyment, so I'd argue that they weren't really done for enjoyment, but just because they were a threat.) And Zak... he had extreme time constraints there and had to act quickly in order to frame Phoenix.
Furthermore, I'd argue that the books and media look at the extreme and generally well-publicised cases. There are plenty of people who have such tendencies and who either don't get caught, or manage to not get done for murder.
Another thing, with sociopaths, part of their talent is hiding that side of their nature very well. And I think canon more than merely suggests that Kristoph is a sociopath.
Also, your spoiler? Made me LOL.
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and the cases are to be called State vs Enigmar and State vs Misham, and together they form Turnabout Succession.
And I am NOT a sadist, and that sexual pleasure thing is bull
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Greener223 wrote:
And I am NOT a sadist, and that sexual pleasure thing is bull
... Someone said you were a sadist? And what do you mean that the sexual pleasure thing is bull? Getting sexual pleasure from pain what being sadistic is all about. It's like, the definition of sadism.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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you all know i'm a ball of rage due to what happened a month ago.
but still, maybe he is sadistic, and maybe he isn't. I dunno, Krissy's just awesome either way.
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Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Greener223 wrote:
I dunno, Krissy's just awesome either way.
I think we should just all agree with this
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Yeah, have some art. Including the one from my avatar. xD
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Slightly NSFW?
Spoiler: For the lulz.
^ Click for my graphics ^
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Pretty avatar is pretty.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Nadindi wrote:
*flaunts shiny new avatar*
Yeah, have some art. Including the one from my avatar. xD
Yeah, have some art. Including the one from my avatar. xD
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Slightly NSFW?
Spoiler: For the lulz.
Those are lovely pictures! <3 Thank you for sharing them! This is my first time posting in this topic, so I guess I'll share my thoughts on Kristoph's character.
I see him as an incredibly proud person who takes his image and reputation extremely seriously, to the point that he's willing to do nearly anything to make himself look good. Forging evidence to get a not guilty verdict? Sure. Taking a man's life because he dropped you as his attorney seven years ago? Sounds good. Spending seven years obsessively watching an artist and his daughter because they know too much about certain events and didn't die when you wanted them to? Okay. (I probably got some of those details wrong because I haven't played GS4 in a while, though.)
To me, Kristoph is a man obsessed with details. He wants things to go his way and is not above manipulation and murder in order to ensure that this happens. Combine that with his incredible amount of pride and you have a recipe for a very dangerous person. Although, I wonder about his relationship with Apollo... I think that a part of him genuinely did care about Apollo's progress as a rookie defense attorney. It'd add some humanity to his character.
So... yeah.
I hope what I said makes sense. XD;
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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Nadindi wrote:
*flaunts shiny new avatar*
Yeah, have some art. Including the one from my avatar. xD
Yeah, have some art. Including the one from my avatar. xD
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Slightly NSFW?
Spoiler: For the lulz.
... Oh my gosh, those pictures are so lovely. Thankies for sharing
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I want to have a more active part in this topic as well, because Kris is one of my favourite characters. I agree wholeheartedly with what arcanephoenix said - it's almost exactly how I justified Kristoph doing the things he did. It's all about him keeping control and composure. I love his character because of how elegant and refined he is, as well as being attractive. I also have a thing for the 'evil' characters in any series. 
^ Click for my graphics ^
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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As for Apollo, I feel like he never truly saw Apollo as a threat, and more as a bit of an amusement to have around the office.
Re: Kristoph Gavin: "L'enfer, C'est Les Autres" (AJ Spoilers)
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But then again, Kristoph is a deep character. I bet someone else would have said that if I hadn't.
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RoundedEdge wrote:
I just realised that the discussions here are probably deeper than the discussions in any other fan topic. Lol.
But then again, Kristoph is a deep character. I bet someone else would have said that if I hadn't.
But then again, Kristoph is a deep character. I bet someone else would have said that if I hadn't.
He is! He's a lot of fun to think about; he's ruthless, but there's a very human reason as to why he's capable of that ruthlessness. In a way, it just makes him scarier (and more awesome) because you can understand where he's coming from. I love his breakdown not just for the epic hair stunt he pulled, but because it showed his mental state after he lost control of everything. He just... completely shattered and lost his calm composition entirely. As much as I love Kristoph, seeing him reduced to nothing but a laughing maniac was satisfying. XD
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<3
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