final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:35 pm

major_pw_fan

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Did anyone else think the final courtroom session in case 4 was abit lacking i mean all you do is show that khristoph tried to kill vera with nail polish and then shows the yellow evelope and the rest if just text that trial isnt as long as any of the others in my opinion it is too short.
I thought phoneixs final trial was better

Mind you since it was based on the jurist system there was no need for desisive evidence which means unlike all the other cases since it is based on people and not evidence it would be shorter

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Last edited by major_pw_fan on Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:04 am

tox_2_much

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I know. It totally should have ended better.

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Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:44 am

major_pw_fan

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I mean it was good but far too short when compared to other trials i mean u only do one testimony and present evidence twice and thats it

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:26 pm

Emperor Ing

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(spoilers in topic so no tags needed)
Well,

I'll agree that the case was rather lacking, but at that point, you knew the truth, you knew how it happened, and it was all about payback time now.

Kristoph's nervous tic surprised me when I first saw it (I was like "Whoa!"), and it totally fit in with his personality and such. And it was creepy.

I think the short trial is made up for by the extremely satisfying breakdown of Kristoph, and his visible insanity afterwards.
"Keep Out the RiffRaff, I say! Only two things count in the Courtroom! ME AND THE LAW!"

I liked how Klavier said that Kristoph spent his whole life looking for loopholes, and the laughing sprite is pretty epic.

Gozu wrote:

omg ur just lik :edgeworth:

did ur parents di or somefin

icer wrote:

Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:33 pm

Leo

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I loved the animations and all, but it was DEFINITELY lacking. Kristoph's tic creeped me out. :D I loved his laugh. It was, indeed, epic.

chargin his legalz

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Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:34 pm

Rhia

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Krissi's nervous 'habit' was too easy to find. For a 'final boss', it was pretty lame. I mean, Brushel had a harder habit... That's just...

Makes me sad.

The laughing and "WRIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTT!!!!" still makes me love him even more for his EVIL ways. :)

BACK, BABY!

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:24 pm

Anuer

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I found it rather disappointing.

First was Pheonix majorly stealing Apollo's thunder. More than half of it you actually were Pheonix, and even the last bit of the chunk it felt like it was still, unquestionably, Pheonix's story. Bad character balance.

Then we have the ending. Not only did feel like everyone else was doing your work for you, with Klavier, Pheonix, and Trucy saving the case for you from time to time, the Jurist system was the biggest deus ex machina I've ever seen. Part of what makes AA games great is not just realizing that the criminal is guilty, but proving it, like in 1-5 or 2-4 to a lesser extent. But I got to this point, where you wonder how you can possibly take down Kristophe, and it winds up being the 'Jurist System'. It seemed like the biggest cop-out ever, just letting the jury decide even without proving the case. It made me frusturated.

However, Kristophe's breakdown was glorious. I was sort of rooting for him when he voiced his disgust at the emotional mob.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:49 am

jainaxox

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I agree that the final case was a huge dissapointment. I mean, first game has all this buildup for an amazingly epic trial, but by the time you actually start "fighting" Kristoph, the whole case is pretty much figured out. There was no intensity like there was in 1-4, 1-5, or 2-4. It's just basically "well, we have a jury, and you look suspicious, so you must have done it. And by the way, Phoenix set this whole thing up".

Seriously...WTF. I think it's a bad sign when you start rooting for the villian instead of the hero in a game like this. But come on, evidence > emotions in the court of law. His breakdown was pretty good, but I didn't feel like I earned it like I earned the infamous von Karma headbang. And of course, Phoenix steals the spotlight from the whole case when it should have been Apollo's grand finale.

(first post, btw!)

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:29 am

Mia_Fey

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I rather liked the case overall although the ending played too much like a movie since we had relatively little interaction after presenting the yellow letter which ends up being tossed out. On the other hand, I found the plot very suspenseful and satisfying for the most part, so it didn't bother me that much. I actually rather liked how they incorporated Phoenix. Yes, he overshadows Apollo some, but I truly got the feeling that Phoenix was really passing on his legacy as he hands off the case that he himself could never close to Apollo to finally bring the case to it's finish. The case title certainly fits it. All in all, I found it fun to play through. It was a nice way to bring Phoenix's story as protagonist to an end, cementing him in his new role as mentor, and switching the focus cleanly to Apollo as he takes over as the new protagonist.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
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Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 pm

Ice the frosty cat

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Yeah, it was a bit lacking, but it was the first three day trial (in a way) since AA, so I didn't really mind terribly much.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:06 pm

Angelux

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I just hate that case.

Enjoying the best of Law! ~~IN SPACE!~~
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Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:14 pm

Ice the frosty cat

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Oh yeah, not only that, but the joy I felt when

Spoiler: 4-4

made it the best case I'd ever played. I had a huge grin on my face for at least twenty minutes afterwards. Kind of like when

Spoiler: 3-5

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:02 am

chazooma

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It could've been a little tiny bit better, but it's not like it's a horrible case. In fact, it's one of my favorites. Honestly, I think they pretty much wrapped it up nicely, and it makes way for more about Apollo in the next game. I consider AJ as a sort of a transition from one protagonist to another. Sure Phoenix pretty much stole a bit of Apollo's thunder, but it's not like all of it was stolen. I'm sure AJ2 will center on Apollo much more.

One thing bothers me though.

Spoiler:

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:16 am

Mia_Fey

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chazooma wrote:

One thing bothers me though.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: 4-4

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:48 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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I could go on and on about how much I hated the final case, but we're just talking about the last trial, so...

It sucked, period. You have one testimony, three or four very easy presents, and that's it. The entire remainder of the trial is Apollo basically sitting back and watching the Gavins bicker with each other for about twenty minutes as they "reveal" how Kristoph was the one who requested the forgery, framed Phoenix with it, tried to kill the Mishams, killed Zak/Shadi, and pretty much everything else you already learned from the MASON System. There was nothing suprising or exciting about it whatsoever; you already know Kristoph was behind everything, so the trial is essentially a formality.

Worse than that, you don't get to hear Cornered, and Apollo doesn't even get to break Kristoph. Klavier does it just by going "Uh, we have a jury now, you know."

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:07 pm

Salutation Here

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I think it was worth the anticlimax just to hear Kristoph's rant. 'You'd let an irrational mob soil your court!?' Brilliant.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:26 pm

dreamwhisperer

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Kristoph's rant saved the bloody GAME for me. And the whole Gavin-brothers battle. Because I love them both.

But, to be honest? It's like watching a flash movie. I don't get to do ANYTHING except stand there and be useless. Plus Kristoph's tic was so easy to find that it just takes the fun out of the whole thing. There wasn't a surprise TWIST like all the previous last cases - it was so obvious.

So, no... I don't like it despite Kristoph's wonderful rant.

Sig by Vicki, who is awesome

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:55 pm

Flowery

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I agree with everyone, it was really bad. ._.; The worst ending case yet. Everybody's pretty much said everything I was thinking -- Apollo being such a small part of it all, no satisfaction of nabbing the killer in the end because of the Jurist System, things hardly weaving together in a clear and linear matter, and ALL KINDS OF BLARG. ;_;

Plus I felt like the whole dynamic between Kristoph and Klavier could have been done a LOT better with this case -- we were never really clear what Klavier's feelings on the whole situation were. If perhaps Kristoph had been a little more condescending to him, as though it were implied that Klavier grew up struggling in his brother's shadow all his life, that would've made things so much more interesting. =\

And, aaghh... I just hated how, despite the fact that he was his own brother, Klavier kept on truckin' like he always did with the whole "I'M A GOOD DUDE AND I JUST WANT THE TRUTH" thing. It would have made for a much more interesting situation if he did his best to protect him, even if he knew he was wrong, simply out of the desperation to protect his own kin (or just being sidetracked by the chance to finally prove himself to his bro, or something.). It's definitely much more of a human thing to do, anyways =\ Klavier in general didn't have enough weakness OR aggression written into his character, and Kristoph would have made such a good opportunity to give a little of that. ._.; It wouldn't have made him a bad guy, just... momentarily swayed, that's all. It would've been such an interesting scenario.

And backtracking a little, but WHAT ABOUT THE PAINTINGS? Gosh, I was so curious as to what those paintings really meant, and we never heard the answer. We got so jipped, man, we got so jipped. In fact, every case had a doggy bone on a fishing pole that we never got to reach. (As lame as that sounds :B lol hohoho)

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:48 pm

chazooma

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Mia_Fey wrote:

chazooma wrote:

One thing bothers me though.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: 4-4

Ah, that works.

Spoiler:

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:07 pm

Mia_Fey

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chazooma wrote:

Ah, that works.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: 4-4

Flowery wrote:

And backtracking a little, but WHAT ABOUT THE PAINTINGS? Gosh, I was so curious as to what those paintings really meant, and we never heard the answer. We got so jipped, man, we got so jipped. In fact, every case had a doggy bone on a fishing pole that we never got to reach. (As lame as that sounds :B lol hohoho)

They... they did explain the paintings though. Drew felt guilty for what had happened to Phoenix (he did, after all, ruin Phoenix's life, even if it was unintentional) and decided to keep an eye on him after that trial. Drew even tells Phoenix in court that he'll remember him. When Drew heard that someone, anyone, was practicing law out of Wright and Co. again he was extremely happy and stated following Apollo's cases which resulted in him doing those paintings.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:31 pm

major_pw_fan

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I redid the final trail coz i played throught the final case again and realized it wasnt that bad i mean like people have said it ends phoneixs story very well and passes his legacy onto apollo for AJ2
Also the final trial is short mainly becasue we already know everything that has happened and what the truth is.
It is unfortatante that apollo doesnt break Khristoph but his brother does by telling him there is a jury but i belive that is y the trial was short becasue they wasnt an need to present final evidence
Overall even thought it is the weakest final case of all 4 games it is still very very good in my opinion and the whole game is definitly worth a replay.

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:34 pm

Flowery

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Mia_Fey wrote:

They... they did explain the paintings though. Drew felt guilty for what had happened to Phoenix (he did, after all, ruin Phoenix's life, even if it was unintentional) and decided to keep an eye on him after that trial. Drew even tells Phoenix in court that he'll remember him. When Drew heard that someone, anyone, was practicing law out of Wright and Co. again he was extremely happy and stated following Apollo's cases which resulted in him doing those paintings.

Ahh, was that it?! I didn't notice that at all -- thanks! Still, how vague and terribly unsatisfying, though x__x; They made it sound like the sketches were going to be a BIG thing in the case. Something of super-importance. ._. They should have at least directly referenced it, especially for as big a deal as they made them out to be in the beginning. SO JIPPED. ;_;

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:58 pm

major_pw_fan

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I agree it was pretty curious when i saw him do them but they didnt turn out to be important at all but i thought the reason was pretty touching in a way

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:34 am

The Doctor

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Well, I wasn't very satisfied woth it. I love all the cases to bits, but I felt that this one left a lot to be desired. I mean, Kristoph's breakdown seemed to come out of nowhere. I would have liked Pollo to break Kristoph.

Kristoph had some marvellous lines in this case, though. It just made me love him all the more.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:24 pm

davech1987

OBJECTION.I object that is objectionable

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It kind of sucks that AA.DD didn't expand on apollos father or mason system or jury system :-(

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth- Sherlock Holmes

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 1:48 pm

LateSummer

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Did...did anyone think that it was fishy that the court allowed the Jurist system to be put into place when it was created by :alitahands:

... oh I don't know... LIKE, THE BOSS OF THE DEFENCE TEAM?! (As in, by that time, Apollo was legit working for Phoenix and Trucy was, well, his daughter...and he actively gathers evidence in support of the defence and everything) I'm sorry for the caps but it just bugged me so badly... :larry:

Everything was just so messed up.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 5:25 pm

CatMuto

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LateSummer wrote:

Did...did anyone think that it was fishy that the court allowed the Jurist system to be put into place when it was created by :alitahands:

... oh I don't know... LIKE, THE BOSS OF THE DEFENCE TEAM?! (As in, by that time, Apollo was legit working for Phoenix and Trucy was, well, his daughter...and he actively gathers evidence in support of the defence and everything) I'm sorry for the caps but it just bugged me so badly... :larry:

Everything was just so messed up.

Really? I'm more surprised you aren't shocked they were listening to a disbarred lawyer creating a Jury system.

As for the trial... it was okay. It was definitely nothing grand, but then I can honestly say, I found nothing in Apollo Justice to all that grand to begin with.

C-A

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 5:35 pm

tiger_festival

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CatMuto wrote:

LateSummer wrote:

Did...did anyone think that it was fishy that the court allowed the Jurist system to be put into place when it was created by :alitahands:

... oh I don't know... LIKE, THE BOSS OF THE DEFENCE TEAM?! (As in, by that time, Apollo was legit working for Phoenix and Trucy was, well, his daughter...and he actively gathers evidence in support of the defence and everything) I'm sorry for the caps but it just bugged me so badly... :larry:

Everything was just so messed up.

Really? I'm more surprised you aren't shocked they were listening to a disbarred lawyer creating a Jury system.

How about the fact that said disbarred lawyer lost his badge as a result of a trial about an incident that just happens to be related to the current trial?

Actually, if we assume that Apollo's purpose as a character is the deconstruction of the role of protagonist (a la Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2), then the final trial works surprisingly well. This may not have been intentional, but still.

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Nearavex

Y'know

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I myself was just thinking about Kristoph's trial and I just can't help but to think the evidence they need so desperately might be pretty easy to find: one thing being showing Kristoph's picture to Vera, who now is capable of talking normally and can confirm his identity, second being the fact that Kristoph wouldn't be capable of just making that envelope disappear, meaning just searching his cell would do...

I don't know, I just think they made that situation out to be more hopeless than it really was.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 9:21 pm

CatMuto

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Well at that point, Vera is poisoned and in critical conditions. Even if they showed her a picture and she said, "Yeah that's him" it wouldn't be viable, as she isn't of sound mind and body. And as for searching Kristoph's cell... I'm sure he could make it disappear. Rip it up and eat the pieces. Dissolve it in the water of the flower vase...

C-A

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Sun May 18, 2014 9:41 pm

Nearavex

Y'know

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And then die by atroquinine poisoning afterwards, because part of the envelope had remnants of it, from the stamp? Not to mention, that even if he did dispose of the envelope, there are still guards in that prison and I doubt that mail wouldn't be examined in the slightest in the freakin' solitary confinement.

Though about Vera, of course she was not available back then, but again, I was thinking more of the later point in time, after the conclusion of the Misham trial, when she is of sound mind and body, even more so that ever before.

Re: final trail opinion (*spoilers*

Mon May 19, 2014 11:00 am

LateSummer

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sumguy28 wrote:

CatMuto wrote:

LateSummer wrote:

Did...did anyone think that it was fishy that the court allowed the Jurist system to be put into place when it was created by :alitahands:

... oh I don't know... LIKE, THE BOSS OF THE DEFENCE TEAM?! (As in, by that time, Apollo was legit working for Phoenix and Trucy was, well, his daughter...and he actively gathers evidence in support of the defence and everything) I'm sorry for the caps but it just bugged me so badly... :larry:

Everything was just so messed up.

Really? I'm more surprised you aren't shocked they were listening to a disbarred lawyer creating a Jury system.

How about the fact that said disbarred lawyer lost his badge as a result of a trial about an incident that just happens to be related to the current trial?

Yes! Those too! I knew I forgot something...>///<