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What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Well, the game comes out in a few hours, so I thought I'd ask what everyone thinks about it like I did back in the GS5 thread. Unlike then, I actually am generally going to be playing it with everyone else (For some reason I decided to wait and start DD when the DLC came out - a whole month after everyone else) I still think it would be fun to talk about their thoughts so far. (Although I am pretty much tied up until the weekend so if I don't get time to play it in the next few days it'll be nice to read everyone's thoughts)

So post a mini-review! What do you like? What do you not like? How does it rank against the other games? Any other thoughts you have?

Please tag all spoilers, no matter how small. I'd like this to be a topic where people can discuss the game while they're playing it without getting spoiled for later parts of the game.
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Repost of review of the Japanese version. My thoughts on it have not really changed. Awesome mystery game with great plots and neat little original ideas, but seen in the context of "sixth entry in a series", it can be a bit... weird. Almost too ambitious, which makes it feel like the odd one out.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Ash wrote:
Repost of review of the Japanese version. My thoughts on it have not really changed. Awesome mystery game with great plots and neat little original ideas, but seen in the context of "sixth entry in a series", it can be a bit... weird. Almost too ambitious, which makes it feel like the odd one out.


Does your review contain spoilers? If so I'll check it out once I'm done but good to know its there as it looks very good and detailed. From your description here it sounds right up my alley as I tend to really like entries to franchises that try for different or ambitious things, even if they fall flat a little bit. But it sounds like you enjoyed it a lot. Would you say it's better than DD? I really liked DD but I'm interested in seeing the differences and similarities.
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The review does not contain anything not already mentioned in the marketing campaign. A lot less actually.

I liked the game a lot better than AA5. AA5 was the safe sequel, that tried to put things back on track, in a sense. With AA6, it's like they figured they should try to move forward.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Ash wrote:
The review does not contain anything not already mentioned in the marketing campaign. A lot less actually.

I liked the game a lot better than AA5. AA5 was the safe sequel, that tried to put things back on track, in a sense. With AA6, it's like they figured they should try to move forward.


Good to know! I'm looking forward to reading it tonight!

I know what you mean - while I really liked DD it did seem to be focused on - as you said - putting things "back on track" and giving fans what they seemed to want perhaps to the detriment of innovation or experimentation (I draw a lot of comparisons between DD and Star Wars: The Force Awakens in this regard). It's good to know they feel they can do unpredictable things now!
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Ash wrote:
The review does not contain anything not already mentioned in the marketing campaign. A lot less actually.

I liked the game a lot better than AA5. AA5 was the safe sequel, that tried to put things back on track, in a sense. With AA6, it's like they figured they should try to move forward.


Maybe that's why I preferred AA5 compared to some - as when I played all of Dual Destinies as far as I recall I'd only completed the first 3 Cases in AA1. I certainly hadn't even touched AA2 or AA3 and didn't even own AA4 or AAI.

My order still isn't fully making sense because I still haven't actually finished AA3 technically.

*attempts to remember order played in*

1-1 (iOS) -> 1-2 (iOS) -> 1-3 (iOS) -> 5-1 (iOS) -> 5-2 (iOS) -> 5-3 (iOS) -> 5-4 (iOS) -> 5-5 (iOS) -> 1-1 Replay (iOS) -> 1-2 Replay (iOS) -> 1-3 Replay (iOS) -> 1-4 (iOS) -> 1-5 (iOS) -> 2-1 (iOS) -> 2-2 (iOS) -> half of 2-3 (iOS) -> 5-3 Replay (iOS. This was me getting sick of the circus case) -> rest of 2-3 (iOS) -> 2-4 (iOS) -> 3-1 (iOS) -> 3-2 (iOS) -> 3-3 (iOS) -> 3-4 (iOS) -> Third of 3-5 (iOS) -> 4-1 (DS. This was when I was on holiday and didn't have my iPad with me to continue game 3) -> 4-2 (DS) -> first uh... 3rd or so of 4-3 (DS) -> All of Ace Attorney Investigations -> 2nd 3rd of 3-5 -> 5-DLC (iOS) -> Replay of 1-1 (3DS Version) -> Rest of 4-3 (DS) -> 4-4 (DS) -> Replay of 1-2 (3DS Version. On correct day this month) -> 6-1 (3DS)

Yeah I seriously need to go back and play this stuff in order. (And finish Bridge to the Turnabout!) :yogi: I'm not even sure I've remembered this all right. What I will say is I only finished AJ completely for the first time the other week. My first replays of the first three cases from AA1 was me attempting to do everything in order and that was only properly scuppered (I don't count my 'replay' of Turnabout Academy because I was mostly just messing about) by me not taking my iPad on holiday with me and AJ having arrived in the post just before we left.

As to why I stopped AJ during 4-3 ? Well my copy of Investigations had just arrived... (Basically from what I recall I stuck it in to make sure the cartridge worked and... well I'm sure you get the idea. :edgey: )

----

Anyway, if you read all that congratulations you're madder than I am. And here's my current thoughts on AA6:- I've only played case 1 so far but I'm finding it really intense (and I mean that in a good way!). The only real niggle I've had so far is the dance cutscene... if she does that in later cases I hope you can skip it because it seemed a bit too long. (Though nowhere near entering re-watching that guitar serenade video territory :hobolaugh: )
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Nerdowl wrote:
Ash wrote:
The review does not contain anything not already mentioned in the marketing campaign. A lot less actually.

I liked the game a lot better than AA5. AA5 was the safe sequel, that tried to put things back on track, in a sense. With AA6, it's like they figured they should try to move forward.


Maybe that's why I preferred AA5 compared to some - as when I played all of Dual Destinies as far as I recall I'd only completed the first 3 Cases in AA1. I certainly hadn't even touched AA2 or AA3 and didn't even own AA4 or AAI.

My order still isn't fully making sense because I still haven't actually finished AA3 technically.

*attempts to remember order played in*

1-1 (iOS) -> 1-2 (iOS) -> 1-3 (iOS) -> 5-1 (iOS) -> 5-2 (iOS) -> 5-3 (iOS) -> 5-4 (iOS) -> 5-5 (iOS) -> 1-1 Replay (iOS) -> 1-2 Replay (iOS) -> 1-3 Replay (iOS) -> 1-4 (iOS) -> 1-5 (iOS) -> 2-1 (iOS) -> 2-2 (iOS) -> half of 2-3 (iOS) -> 5-3 Replay (iOS. This was me getting sick of the circus case) -> rest of 2-3 (iOS) -> 2-4 (iOS) -> 3-1 (iOS) -> 3-2 (iOS) -> 3-3 (iOS) -> 3-4 (iOS) -> Third of 3-5 (iOS) -> 4-1 (DS. This was when I was on holiday and didn't have my iPad with me to continue game 3) -> 4-2 (DS) -> first uh... 3rd or so of 4-3 (DS) -> All of Ace Attorney Investigations -> 2nd 3rd of 3-5 -> 5-DLC (iOS) -> Replay of 1-1 (3DS Version) -> Rest of 4-3 (DS) -> 4-4 (DS) -> Replay of 1-2 (3DS Version. On correct day this month) -> 6-1 (3DS)

Yeah I seriously need to go back and play this stuff in order. (And finish Bridge to the Turnabout!) :yogi: I'm not even sure I've remembered this all right. What I will say is I only finished AJ completely for the first time the other week. My first replays of the first three cases from AA1 was me attempting to do everything in order and that was only properly scuppered (I don't count my 'replay' of Turnabout Academy because I was mostly just messing about) by me not taking my iPad on holiday with me and AJ having arrived in the post just before we left.

As to why I stopped AJ during 4-3 ? Well my copy of Investigations had just arrived... (Basically from what I recall I stuck it in to make sure the cartridge worked and... well I'm sure you get the idea. :edgey: )

----

Anyway, if you read all that congratulations you're madder than I am. And here's my current thoughts on AA6:- I've only played case 1 so far but I'm finding it really intense (and I mean that in a good way!). The only real niggle I've had so far is the dance cutscene... if she does that in later cases I hope you can skip it because it seemed a bit too long. (Though nowhere near entering re-watching that guitar serenade video territory :hobolaugh: )


Finish 3-5. It's the best case in my opinion
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Phoenix_Wrong wrote:
Finish 3-5. It's the best case in my opinion


I'm really not in the mood for Coffee metaphors that I can't make head nor tail of right now. (Yeah really unpopular opinion but I've never really warmed to Godot at all)

---

To move this back onto AA6 discussion... Whilst I find Gaspen more irritating and more obnoxious than Winston, I think I may actually prefer him. If that makes any sense at all. :lana:
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I don't care for Godot either. He's the weakest prosecutor in my opinion character-wise - not because he doesn't have characterization (he's actually more developed than a lot of the others) but because I thought his whole arc wasn't well-written, specifically the part about hating Wright for a stupid reason and then suddenly having an epiphany about it at the end. I thought it could have been better told.

Still, I would say that a lot of the overall plots of these games work best when you play all the cases in the game in the order intended.I'd recommend going and playing the games you didn't complete at once at some point (not talking about playing all the games themselves in order necessarily, but rather if you're going to play one of the games I'd play through it all before playing the next one.
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Well, I just started the game, barely finished the first case, and I'll just say this, I understand people's issues with the pacing, it took me about 4 hours to finish the first case, I think it might be the single longest first case in Ace Attorney, I could be wrong, or simply slow, but apparently, the game really is kind of slow, I don't dislike it, it means I'm gonna be able to enjoy the game for a longer period of time, but still, 4 hours is a lot of time to spend on the first case.
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2 cents after beating case 1:

The chronological order is nice. The plot starts out foreshadowing things to come but it's not heavy-handed like "Dark Age of Law" in DD . It's a much better way to build mysteries properly I think because you're not left with any huge expecations due to a lofty premise that makes it seem like a million things are happening at once until it turns out it's a bit less than that. There's small mysteries that slowly but steadily build up. "Who is Dhurke?" and "Who is Inga"? "What happened in this country?" etc. We know as little as Phoenix and co. as we follow this plot, and I like that so far.

Also, the humor was great in case 1. It got me... had me in stitches! And the mystery of case 1 actually led to a satisfying conclusion and a bite-sized arc for Phoenix and Ahlbi that I liked. The tone is campy and sweet, the Judge or "His Magistry" is a really nice judge and Payne was noticeably funnier in this than in DD I thought. Phoenix was also just cool in case 1, and I hope it keeps him that way.
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I'm still on the first part of Case one, but I'm really stating to hate this game already. The whole "Divination Sequence" is complete garbage, as it gives you barely anything to work with, and isn't intuitive at all. It just makes me long for Apollo and Athena's cases.
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I'm inclined to agree with linkenski, the Judge was surprisingly nice, and they managed to make him a different character from the other judge, I was kind of expecting them to just rehash the same character but throw in a few jokes about how they're not in the same place therefore things are different, but he's actually different, and unlike the other judge, not an idiot.
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It's funny. At least I case 1 (as I haven't touched anything beyond 2 yet) the Magistry judge feels more like an authentically written judge to me than the real judge. I never thought the judge in DD was quite as funny in the way he was written as the one in the trilogy. They tried, but I found them to miss the mark but this guy, talking about his wife and classes like a bumbling fool, unabashedly threatening with death and then makes random mistakes like calling Phoenix "Mr Light" is just classy writing overall. I liked him a lot.
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I'm starting to feel like Nahyuta's voice is cringeworthy. His speaking roles in the prologue and cutscenes were okay, his voice clips are decent… But I am not fine with how Matt said and pronounced the Satorha Mantra. (And by Satorha Mantra, I mean his sutra)
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For me, I'm part way through case 2 but I'm LOVING this game so far! The dialogue is so great! I love the characterisation, the references, Ema is the best character in existence #NoBias.

Only little thing is I don't like all the hostility, and Nahyuta's quirk of being rude isn't really as entertaining as whips, coffee and birds.

Yash K. Productions wrote:
I'm starting to feel like Nahyuta's voice is cringeworthy. His speaking roles in the prologue and cutscenes were okay, his voice clips are decent… But I am not fine with how Matt said and pronounced the Satorha Mantra. (And by Satorha Mantra, I mean his sutra)

Yeah the accent kinda makes the Khura'inese sound fake.
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I still have to buy an eShop card in order to get it first.

I'll be sure to tell you what I think afterward, though.
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I've been so busy that I haven't actually even gotten past the first part of Case 1

Spoiler: Where I am and my thoughts
I just proved that the killer was standing behind the victim.

I really liked that the first case didn't start right in court and instead had a couple of minutes "in the real world". It shakes things up a bit.

I also agree about the humor being good. It feels less forced than in DD, and I really like this new judge.


Overall, I'm only about an hour in but I am really liking it. We'll see what develops from here.
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Does anyone actually enjoy the fingerprinting parts? In both of the occasions that mechanic has popped up so far, I was just about ready to throw my 3DS at the wall and ended up having to look up the asinine position of some obscure fingerprint that ended up meaning exactly zilch in later trials. Most obnoxious mechanic in the series.

I just hope it doesn't pop up again.
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Those segments were absolutely horrible in this game (mechanically). A friend and I addressed that point too in the (Japanese) questionnaire for the game, because it's something they really need to work on.
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ThePaSch wrote:
Does anyone actually enjoy the fingerprinting parts? In both of the occasions that mechanic has popped up so far, I was just about ready to throw my 3DS at the wall and ended up having to look up the asinine position of some obscure fingerprint that ended up meaning exactly zilch in later trials. Most obnoxious mechanic in the series.

I just hope it doesn't pop up again.

It was fun in AJ and RfTA but not here. The way you had to navigate around the box was too confusing and disorientating. That and it took too long.
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Just finished Case 1.

Spoiler: Case 1 stuff
Not really a fan of the Divination Sequences. It really slows the game down. Case 1 was also a bit long for my liking. Part 2 of Case 1 was awesome though, Metal Jesus was hilarious so extra points for that.
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The fingerprint mechanic is made to play like in AJAA but the programmers seriously suck with this particular one. The spray-effect looks terrible, it's unresponsive and even glitchy visually, the zoom is awful and why do we have to put powder on such large rotateable objects? Doesn't help the framerate is often in the toilet.

Speaking of framerate, as great as the visuals are in the game, is it even that much more than DGS? That game runs nearly 60fps on my n3DS and looks gorgeous, but this DD feels really unoptimized.

EDIT: One thing I've noticed now that I've played some of two cases is that this game has a recurring oddity during the trials. In both case 1 and case 2 the notion of a third person or third party being the "true killer" is brought up with nothing having led to that conclusion. As players we know it of course, and in case 2 there's obvious hints before the trial but nothing conclusive from Apollo's POV. I dislike how they point the blame at an unknown factor with baseless conjecture. What happened here? It feels like the writers are skipping over setting the trials up properly.
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linkenski wrote:
The fingerprint mechanic is made to play like in AJAA but the programmers seriously suck with this particular one. The spray-effect looks terrible, it's unresponsive and even glitchy visually, the zoom is awful and why do we have to put powder on such large rotateable objects? Doesn't help the framerate is often in the toilet.

Speaking of framerate, as great as the visuals are in the game, is it even that much more than DGS? That game runs nearly 60fps on my n3DS and looks gorgeous, but this DD feels really unoptimized.

EDIT: One thing I've noticed now that I've played some of two cases is that this game has a recurring oddity during the trials. In both case 1 and case 2 the notion of a third person or third party being the "true killer" is brought up with nothing having led to that conclusion. As players we know it of course, and in case 2 there's obvious hints before the trial but nothing conclusive from Apollo's POV. I dislike how they point the blame at an unknown factor with baseless conjecture. What happened here? It feels like the writers are skipping over setting the trials up properly.

For the third party, I think Apollo assumes that if no one who was previously suspected could be the killer, and he believes Trucy is innocent, then there has to be a third party, that's what I would assume if it was proven that no one who was known to be there could be the killer, isn't faith in your client a big part of the Ace Attorney games?
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We're on the same page, but that's not what I'm finding an issue with. The issue is that he's explaining this assumption to the court and neither the Judge nor Nahyuta stops him even though it's conjecture. When he says there could be a third person he's technically blowing the possibilities wide open; It could be anyone in town now. Of course we know there's only two possible characters it could be, and Apollo has suspicions, but usually when it comes to making this assumption when he or Phoenix believes in their clients they keep it to themselves, guide themselves along with that mindset. But they know it's crazy and don't mention it to the court unless they have a convincing argument for it. Phoenix doesn't in case 1 and Apollo doesn't in case 2. They're both like "There must've been a third person!" and there's really no rationale for it even if they believe their client is innocent.

I have two examples from the past that use the notion of a "third person" that worked. Kristoph in 4-1 and The Phantom in DD. You've heard about both and by the time Nick suggests that there could've been a third person in either case he already has both a suspicion and a good idea of how to prove it.

It doesn't matter "to me" why Apollo thinks this. It matters to the court but apparently not in SoJ, because Phoenix and Apollo just get away with it, which has never been a problem in the previous games, because the writers want to cut to the chase too soon.
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ThePaSch wrote:
Does anyone actually enjoy the fingerprinting parts? In both of the occasions that mechanic has popped up so far, I was just about ready to throw my 3DS at the wall and ended up having to look up the asinine position of some obscure fingerprint that ended up meaning exactly zilch in later trials. Most obnoxious mechanic in the series.

I just hope it doesn't pop up again.

I absolutely hated those parts. I spent TWENTY whole minutes just to find one print.
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It's not exactly a review thus far, but I'd like to stack up the cases I've played thus far from most favourite to least favourite, with reasons.

Spoiler:
Turnabout Storyteller/Case 4: I love Athena, what can I say? This was just a simple trial with a great mystery and a nice break away from the extreme high stakes that, in all honesty, I really don't much enjoy. Even if it doesn't exactly "fit" into the overall story, I never felt that. I loved it. However I will say that yes, it is filler, and if it was DLC, I still wouldn't have minded, but I'm really glad it's in the main game.

The Magical Turnabout/Case 2: I really enjoyed the focus on Apollo and Trucy in this case. Even if most of it doesn't come up again, I do enjoy this case and the way it's handled. However, I wasn't fond of some of the characters. Retinz in particular, as a villain, I shouldn't like him anyway, but he really does just go WAY TOO FAR... I also felt the murder was a little too convoluted for my tastes, but Apollo always seems to get those.

The Rite of Turnabout/Case 3: I love the story of this case, and how it shows the true corruption of the government, showing us it rather than SLAMMING IT IN OUR FACE like DD. On the flip side, I felt like the first day dragged on FAR too long, and then it felt like most of it was pointless, the only notable thing we learned was that Tahrust was a revolutionary. The second day was good, however, and it helped.

The Foriegn Turnabout/Case 1: I do like this case, and I especially love Ahbli and guitar Jesus, but the fact is, it's too much for a first case. It really did drag on for a while, but I was satisfied with the results, however. It's certainly one of my more favourite first cases.

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Spoiler:
It warrants another playthrough but that will come later as I paused the Trilogy for this and I am planning on replaying Ghost Trick afterwards. So let's see:

Personally, I didn't find this game as engaging as most others, even Dual Destinies. It still has that issue with the characters simply talking too much that it kills the pacing. Sometimes it's awful, such as in the first case, but they were establishing a new setting, I suppose.

I felt like the music was half-hearted, but there were some good themes in there. Nahyuta's theme, the Khura'in investigation, Athena's, Phoenix's, the Detention Center (which sounds like it came out of AJAA), and Tell the Truth. Not a fan of Suspense, though. I think only the first Investigations has a soundtrack I like less.

I wish I didn't have to fail a few times before I could use Consult. I'd rather have the option to consult with your assistant whenever you want and make the hints less obvious.

Apollo's final choice was necessary but he grew on me so I'll miss him in the WAA.

Finally, if I had to rate the cases, it would be as so: 2, 4, 3, 5, 1.

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While the fingerprinting stuff is really bad, one thing I do like about it compared to case 1-5 is there is a designated button to blow away the powder so you don't have to blow into your mic. I don't know if it's just me, but my mic would have a hard time reading my blows and sounds and whatnot when it came to things like that. I'd rather take spending longer on fingerprinting and not having to blow over a short fingerprinting segment that ends up leaving me very light headed and dizzy.

That all said though, I hate the fingerprinting mechanic in general. I agree with what was said earlier. It's definitely something that needs to be worked on. I do feel that at least having a designated blow button is a step in the right direction.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Wotter boy

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My gripe with the fingerprinting mechanic was that it made my sister's 2DS lag, combined with the fact that my fans constantly blowing on me made it hard to get a lot done.
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迷探偵

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Reading some of the comments on case three makes me wonder...

Spoiler: Case FIVE spoilers!!
how many people realize that the Maya channeling is actually a set-up for later? I kinda guessed it early in my playthrough, because doing a thing like that in Case 3 didn't seem to make any sense, unless it'd come back later (and the comedic resentation was meant to distract from that), but it's funny seeing people being shocked at it now.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Patience, Ash. We must await how their minds will be blown. It is natural for initial disbelief to channel appreciation in hindsight. Har har har, puns.
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So I'm on to the investigation phase of case 2.

First, I really enjoyed Case 1. Probably 4-1 is still my favorite intro case but I liked what they did with it.

I'm really enjoying Case 2 also. The return of free investigations makes a huge difference to me, as I feel like when I play through the games the majority of the time the player spends with the characters is determined by all the little side observations. DD's investigations always felt a little less packed with content in this department and as a result it didn't have nearly as many of the zany anecdotal conversations that dominate investigations. It also really feels like a true AJ-style case, and I like its similar vibes to 4-3 (which I enjoy a lot).

One thing I'm wondering: Did Trucy always have long hair that flowed from the back of her head? I always thought it was short but I'd feel kind of stupid if I misinterpreted her hair all this time. Kind of like how I used to think Maya's smile was different than it actually was because of the pixel size on my old DS Lite.

I have the urge to ask other questions but I figure I should probably finish the case first!
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D.A. McCoy wrote:
One thing I'm wondering: Did Trucy always have long hair that flowed from the back of her head? I always thought it was short but I'd feel kind of stupid if I misinterpreted her hair all this time.


Yep.
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FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
D.A. McCoy wrote:
One thing I'm wondering: Did Trucy always have long hair that flowed from the back of her head? I always thought it was short but I'd feel kind of stupid if I misinterpreted her hair all this time.


Yep.


Wow. Although I guess you don't really see it that much in the AJ sprites but I'm still oblivious. I had thought maybe it was a way of the GS6 characters to start to make her appear a little more like Thalassa as she got older.
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Played the game fully through now and love it to pieces. I was fully invested throughout (though Athena's case felt a bit out of place to me) and the mysteries were delectable. I even got a few things right ahead of time in the final case, and in the good way, not the bad predictable way.

So yeah. Might even be my favourite. I wonder how many people are going to be ticked off with me about that.
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There will always be people ticked off by anything, whether you like the old or new games, whether you like Takumi's writing or Yamazaki's supervision, whether you like the game for the characters or the mystery plots...

But I agree it's a very solid game. I mentioned it before, but my biggest "gripe" is that they try to do a lot in this game in terms of scale (seriously, case 2, 3 and 4 all could have been a final case in earlier games).
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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I liked that about it.

Case 4 isn't a final case contender though, even for the earlier games.
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迷探偵

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Sorry, I meant 5 (which obviously is a final case, but still, it's like the whole game is final cases).
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Gerkuman wrote:
I liked that about it.

Case 4 isn't a final case contender though, even for the earlier games.


I feel like if Case 4 was longer, it might've been. Especially if there was some build-up to it. Heh.. a game about rakugo and inheritance...
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