My idea for the Venom/silver bit was that since silver is colored silver, the Venom was able to nullify it, since Manfred's Venom is based on black and white... But yeah, I think just physically blocking it, rather than it being some inherent property of Venom, would be a lot simpler.

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Ah, almost forgot. Time for a bit of a lesson in color palettes.

The difference between pigment and light is that pigment absorbs light - the more color pigment you add, the darker it will be, and unless you're careful and controlled about how you mix you're going to get a lot of dark colors like brown and black, whereas less pigment (or white pigment, to get the same effect as the white paper) allows more light to reflect back.

On the other hand, if you're mixing light, white light is "pure" light, a mixture of all the different wavelengths of light. To get colors, you have to extract specific wavelengths of the light, and to get black, you have to remove all the light.

Black is all pigment, no light. White is no pigment, all light.

Here's another way of looking at it: If you mix red and green light, the wavelength will turn into their intermediate, a shade of yellow. However, if you mix red and green pigment, the additional pigment will darken the color into a brown (or black if you know the pigments to mix).

Here's another way of looking at it: Any painter will tell you the three primary colors are Red, Yellow and Blue, and the three secondary colors are Orange, Green and Purple. Any computer geek will tell you the three primary colors are Red, Green and Blue and the three secondary colors are Yellow, Cyan and Magenta.

As someone who's doing both right now, I've had to really learn this difference.

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Seriously, thanks again for the lesson, Pie. That actually clears up a lot of things for me.

Anyway, something popped into my mind recently about SMako. We have plans for battles and death situations planned out. That's great and all, but what about when someone gets injured? How does the main good heroes exactly get healed/cured from injuries? Maybe Guy Eldoon can run a non-Holy Trinity hospital. Or Makoto could draw meds and bandages with her Inspiration. Wait, is there a healing-centered hero?

We're two steps ahead of you, Butz. Eldoon was made into an omnihealer for that exact reason.

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And now for something completely irrelevant. ART DUMP TIME

• Kiki's take on Belladonna - more leafy and sylvan than my own vine/flower-inspired designs
  
• One - Two Three - And Viola's little cousin Lydia, too. Unlike Dee and Viola, there will probably be more genuine affection between these two, albeit possibly some competition and conflict of interest, seeing as Lydia likes to be a hero, and Viola is more focused on the family interests. Ideas for this dynamic potential are welcome!
  
• One - Two - Yaranaika - I don't know what her bionic left arm would be like, really. We should do more design work on that.
  
• One - Two - And while we're on the subject, here's Glen Elg. WhiteElephant gives him a classier, more cleaned-up look in these, compared to his proto-hobo look in 3-3.
  
• Kiero does Iron Maiden - used for the wiki profile
  
• And Iron Maiden's last laugh by WhiteElephant
  
• BANG! - Mike Meekins, by Haibara~n
  
• Bangin' - Venom Makoto? by Pie - It predates my own sweaterdress design.
  
• Bangable - Pulsar, by Kiero (also on the wiki) - This is Pulsar Suit 2.0, and I hope we get some drawings of Adrian in her "upgraded" suit eventually: the Pulsar Suit 1.5, that was used by her mother as Iron Maiden, with flight capabilities.
  
• Bang, baby - Kiero, by Alita (wiki)
  
• Bang Bang - Valerie Hawthorne is officially badass, by MSOB - There's been some talk about how Valerie will be influential in uncovering the Interpol conspiracy, possibly leading up to a clash with Redd White and BlueCorp as she gets help from the heroes to find out who's pulling the strings that got Terry jailed and Romein eventually killed. (And Pie can come along, too)
  
• Feuer frei - El Mysterioso Mariachi Machi, by MSOB - This guy still lacks development.
  
• Look! Twins! - The Fey Sisters, by MSOB - There was a bit of discussion about their designs, and for this iteration we borrowed from racy Chinese-style dresses, especially those worn by Xiang Hua of Soul Calibur fame. The "seven blade sword" you see in these drawings is a random design, and may see some changes in order to suit its original game incarnation.
  
• Did somebody say racy? - The outrageous Troia Gavin returns with a new, more vibrant and fleshed-out look compared to previous pale-skinned iterations. She's meant to directly parallel her children in appearance, while seeming outlandish at the same time. Future drawings may see her in more reserved attire for her business dealings for Ariadne Cosmetics.
  
• Ariadne's latest - And here's the Black Nail Polish yet again.

Okay, I'm tired. There's a lot of artwork being added each week to the Photobucket archive - if you want to see the full breadth, be sure to ask a project member for the viewing password.

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For some odd reason, in those pictures, Valerie reminds Resident Evil's Ada Wong for some reason. Maybe that could influence her somehow...

Hm, reading her bio on Wikipedia - I know some things about RE but I've never really played it. I can see some similarities between the characters, and I like the comparison... but would it mean we'd have to introduce our own version of the G-Virus? D:

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The G-Virus is a McGuffin. Valerie's version of that is the truth about who controls Interpol. She may have to seek out certain people and locations for that sort of information.

(Valerie in a China dress? I likey)

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Okay, I suppose that works. Better than introducing zombie monster things into this. (Though that WOULD explain Terry's stitches - ... nah.)

Some more fun facts (this time, borrowing from Wikipedia)...

Since Ariadoney sounds kind of dumb, it's been changed to the name it was based on: Ariadne, a Greek figure from Crete, daughter of King Minos. She aided Theseus in defeating the Minotaur by giving him a sword and red fleece. After, she married Dionysus, the god of wine, and her wedding crown became the constellation Corona. She bore him three sons... Thoas, one of the Greek heroes in the Trojan War, and the twins Oenopion and Staphylus, associated with wine and grapes respectively.

I'm not sure if any of this can be used as inspiration regarding Troia or the Ariadne brand, but I think it's pretty cool.

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Yeah, I personally see Valerie as being a very gruff and mysterious sort, with her own agenda, popping in and out of view as she "bumps into" other characters. However, the more personal nature of her goals will require more character interaction on her part than in Ada Wong's case.

I think the Interpol conspiracy should link back to the Borginia Incident and how Diego was implicated in the first place. Having Blue Corp instrumental to Mia's death is almost requisite.

Redd White himself ought to be based in "high society," rubbing shoulders with the moneyed elite, possibly crossing paths with Godot and Angel.

Speaking of Godot, after being poked fun at for being a total pairing whore, I thought I'd shove another one down your throats: Sakai->Godot. She would have been an impressionable teenager when Diego was exiled, and becoming his new "sidekick" and guide in the criminal underworld when he builds up to becoming Godot would make a bit of sense. They might even share some fighting techniques. While she may hold some admiration and respect for the man (perhaps the one and only soft spot in her persona), it's entirely one-sided since Godot is consumed with thoughts of revenge for Mia.

I mean, it's a possibility, you don't need to make it canon because I said so... |D

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OH BEE YOU SILLY PAIRING WHORE YOU

But nah, I can definitely agree with Redd, Angel and Godot all bumping into each other up in high society. And while I have such a huge soft spot for Diego/Mia (admittedly, one reason I have such fondness for it is because I associate with Mia and I do love men like Diego), I've got no problems with the crackships, especially not as you've put it here.

What about everyone else? Remember, guys, if any ships that show up in the project bother you, even if they're only implied, don't be afraid to say so. Better we know where the tensions lie, at least, than let them suddenly spring up and bite heads off.

EDIT: Was checking the wiki-site.com main page, and it seems like everyone's following our example these days... right down to the templates. At least this one is (well, was) Eth's project.

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I feel Godot/Sakai is implied, one sided, rather than be full out ship. Maybe it can grow overtime, but looking at T&T I can't see Godot going for anybody else after Mia. Even after there is a resolution, unless we see development between two characters that is major, then I doubt Godot ever being with Sakai romantically.

And please don't kill me for this, but calculating it they're at least 20 years apart by the time of the current arc.

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While I'm not fully completely against Sakai/Godot, even if it is one-sided, but something about it bugs me. I think it's because you want to make Sakai an love struck "impressionable teenager" clinging to Godot's side. Maybe this is just me, but Lady Sakai is supposed to be a megalomaniac-badass who steals a cake from a wedding because she's bored. I just can't picture her downplaying herself for someone who might not even love her. I see her taking a weapon (short sword?) to his throat and forcing him to love him to her even as a teenager. I think that they could be great business partners but that should be it at most.

But if you can prove me wrong and change my mind, I won't say a word anymore on this subject.

And, I do agree with Redd, Angel and Godot all running into each at one point or another. It makes sense since considering the roles they each play.

Well, my thoughts were that she must be compensating for something, with all the aggression and "I'm not cute, I'm bad! BAD!" attitude. In fact, the issue of the one-sided romance would probably make her angry and more vicious than usual.

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Well, about the Sakai/Godot thing, my opinion is equal to the opinion of White Elephant.




On a side note, the art that you guys are making for the characters in the wiki is great!

One day, I will have the hability to contribute with the art, too! You will see!

This could take a long time, but I'll not give up!



On another side note:




Well, there is.

Ugh, MORE Holy Trinity characters? I don't think we need those... we were only just recently able to remove one from their roster. As much as I like De Killer, he needs a more significant place in the story.

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Technically talking (if he is going to be in Super Makoto, of course), he is not a Holy Trinity character. It's happens that he is, indeed, very hired by Holy Trinity, but that doesn't means that he IS a Holy Trinity character. Mostly because I don't think that Shelly obtained all his reputation of being a professional working ONLY for Holy Trinity. After all, he is a professional assassin, not a "bodyguard" or something similiar.


And about the place in story, well, it's just a "base suggestion". This could have a lot of further development.



Or we can discard all this and imagine that my suggestion was never existed.

Apologies. My mind got eaten so badly by Gaia's new battle system. Given that I was in the first crew to beat the endboss four days after the game was released... y-yeah, tha should show nicely how much I got into it.

Anyway, as much as I love the Holy Trinity as is, we don't wanna go overboard with it... remember Venom. I think we have enough going on there as it is.

Still think it'd be interesting if, after Rocktra's identity come out and Daryan and Konrad have the most rocktastic friendship-destroying fight ever, Daryan gets captured and we see how Konrad reacts.

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Daryan's redemption is going to be a long and painful road. I'm sure Konrad and April will be instrumental in that development.

I've been thinking back to the Interpol issue and other details. So to recap:

Valerie discovered that Interpol is being manipulated by Blue Corps, yes? So this information would have to lead back to Mia's death, in which Redd White's cooperation with Dahlia was important in setting up the trap in Borginia.

As for what happened in Borginia, apparently something happened that implicated Diego in the botching of the mission and Mia's death. The current idea is that he was distracted by Dahlia and/or found evidence of someone smuggling Borginian cocoons; the following tribunal found that he did not possess this evidence, until Kristoph Gavin attempted to forge a Borginian cocoon using Makoto's help. When Kristoph presented the forged cocoon, which wasn't a real cocoon at all due to Makoto's power limits, Kristoph was disbarred and Diego was exiled.

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I'd like to make an official statement here:

We have been a little dry on SMako ideas these past few weeks. That is probably related to the fact that zOMG! was released and ate my brain.

And yes, in the meantime, we've been drawing "Super Makoto GX", a.k.a. futurespawn with variations on their parents powers. Mostly daughters, which has been giving it an amusing harem anime flavor.

But Super Makoto GX is not serious business, it is just a joke, okay?!

It's just for kicks and giggles and blatant fanservice, especially since we've been getting all professional and serious about the actual storyline of Super Makoto.

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Well, back to serious business, I'd like to seriously propose that Turner Grey and Pal Meraktis be alive at the beginning of Super Makoto. That way, we can kill them off in the present timeline; it would afford more drama, especially if we can establish them as the evil masterminds of Holy Trinity.

A possible scenario is Mimi finally taking her revenge on Grey, with one of the heroines attempting to talk her out of it (and failing). And after Grey and Meraktis are dead, it would seem that HT's experiments would stop, especially with the intelligent young new director, Alita Tiala, at the helm. When they don't, HT is investigated by the heroes a second time, and it's revealed she is working with April May and Hotti, who were the real masterminds all along.

Or something like that. I especially like the possibilities of Mimi wrestling with the dark side.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, what would prevent Mime from going after Grey in the first place? Perhaps the Fey magic that holds the Mime Demon Mask can also be used to control the person who wears it, so Morgan essentially enslaves Mimi, making her do espionage work with the promise that she will allow her to kill Grey (but only when it's convenient/useful for Morgan). This would add an extra level of intensity to Mimi's vindictiveness; she will take a chance on the mere possibility for revenge, even if there is no guarantee she will be allowed to do so.

There could also be some body/appearances angst to go with that. (Emotional torment builds character! :awesome:)

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Hmm...I admit I have been warming up to the idea of bringing Turner back to life. My main concern was always 'what would keep Mime from killing Grey?'. Remember that Mimi became Mime 7 years before the current arc. It's a long time for sure.

Thinking about the idea, if anyone were to convince Mimi to try and turn away from revenge I think it would be Pearl or even possibly Larry. Larry the the lesser choice, as I doubt he exactly understands the deep emotional levels of wanting to get someone back for destroying their life. Speaking of vindictiveness, I don't doubt for a moment that Mimi might use the advantage of knowing about Pearl's whereabouts to blackmail Morgan into releasing her from some kind of hold.

As far as 'stolen identity' goes, there is easily super angst with the fact of having to borrow her sister's body to do civilian spy work. Going into the future, since the mask was originally locked up in Kurain, I can see Elise/Misty trying to retrieve the mask from Mimi and lock up the demon before anything gets out of hand.

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I was actually thinking earlier tonight that perhaps empowering the Mime Demon could be a part of Morgan's plans, possibly releasing it from the mask using the power of the three Magatama?

In other news, I've been making small edits and additions to the wiki. If any of you ever have free time, you ought to hit the "Random Page" button and see if there's anything you can fill out on the fly. A lot of characters could use some filling-in for their biographies.

Last edited by MoronSonOfBoron on Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's been a while since we revisited the Current Arc of Super Makoto, specifically how Makoto first becomes a superhero... aka The First Episode


TLDR: MAKOTO FIGHTS FOR HER FRIENDS

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I am rather...interested in this project. I might be capable of contributing art of some sort at some time but I'd rather go through all of the things first (I've only been through some things on the wiki page. ). Regardless could someone supply me with the password to the photobucket account so I can admire what's up there? It'll help me draw as well as understand more of what's going on.

I thank you, compliment you on this project, and now run to hide while apologizing for lack of contribution.

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With the fall semester winding down and the new year creeping up on us, I've found that our resident fashionista, kiero, has been busy tinkering with alternate outfits for Super Makoto!

• Playful design with a very young, feminine bent to it. This style of dress is not one you'd commonly see today, recalling some fairy tale imagery and more innocent times.
• A stylized outfit contrasting darker shades with lace-up shoes and "magical girl" accoutrements.
• A Venom outfit that is more closely linked to her regular outfits, highlighted by more flashy elements such as a halter neck and a frilly skirt better suited to Latin dance. Fun Fact: In addition to jumpsuits and sweater dresses, Bee has a newfound appreciation for exposed skin above the stockings.

And this just needs to be seen to be believed: a gorgeous colored concept of the stylized outfit above, showing off the short coat and colored jewels.

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Awwww, that colored outfit is so cute. Dangit, I miss kiki's work.

We need to stir up some new ideas. The heart is willing but the mind is devoid of inspiration.

I've been trying to work out the Interpol situation, with Valerie and whatnot. It occurs to me that we already have some trenchcoat-style espionage in our story, particularly with Goodman - maybe for Valerie, and perhaps for other Interpol members as well, we should try out some tuxedo-style espionage? Like James Bond stuff? Especially if Bee wants to stick Valerie in a china dress...

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Consider it done! But who's going to wear the tuxedo?

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add some red on the dress, sunglasses on Valerie and she'll look exactly like Ada Wong from Resident Evil 4

Um, bump?

I finally decided to stop trying to resist temptation and click the Super Makoto link in Bee's signature. The downfall of coming in so late is, of course, the mega catching up I have to do, but I've already read Pie's wicked synopsis of the project on the wiki and I just spent the past while reading this thread. I'll sort through it all eventually so I don't bog you down with too many stupid questions C: I'm intimidated by all of the epic win here, so I don't know if I actually want to participate or just lurk and pretend to participate, but I'll be here to annoy you either way if need be.

This post is just to get the thread into my 'View your posts' dealy-thingy... I don't really have much contructive to add. But I am highly disappointed that Super Makoto doesn't have a theme song.

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Hey, look, the first SMako drawing of 2009!

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Lol, I thought everyone involved in this suffered a severe block or something.

Actually, there was a major idea block late last year, especially since we weren't able to hang out together as much due to work, school, et cetera. Our major goal right now is to stay in touch so we can continue to exchange ideas with each other (since we actually rarely visit CR proper as it is).

Last edited by MoronSonOfBoron on Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

After a winter hiatus, activity continues on Super Makoto!

Time Paradox Plus
A major change has been applied to the Super Makoto timeline regarding the death of Gregory Edgeworth, Celeste Inpax's rebellion against Manfred Von Karma, and the life and times of Adrian Andrews and Franziska Von Karma.

Originally, the setup was something like this:


Now it should look like this:


Gregory's death is an important catalyst in the events of both the original PW/AA canon and in Super Makoto, but its arbitrary placement in SMako's timeline made for a few oddities in age and event calculations. Its new placement ensures that there is a more solid connection of events and characters, particularly his death's effect on his son, the proximity of Celeste's rebellion to Adrian's formative years, and finally a more sensible origin for the weaponized Pulsar Suit.

It's a Hit
And after some more revisited brainstorming, Valerie Hawthorne's role in Interpol is being reimagined as that of a corrupt "assassin" that is part of the shadow network that controls Interpol, particularly Manfred's right-hand man, Redd White. And when assassins turn against their employers, you know how that goes...

This new characterization offers an explanation as to why Valerie's ID number was wiped and given to someone else as a cover-up, and why she's on the "most wanted" list. We have yet to decide on how exactly it pushes her into other character's paths...

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LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WE ARE DRAWING MORE ARTS AND EDITING THE WIKI AGAIN. WE MIGHT BE STARTING TO GET OUT OF THE WINTER BREAK STAGNATION.

So, time for an art post:

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More writing and story considerations:

Doing Phoenix Justice
While Phoenix was one of the first heroes to be created for the project, his importance in Super Makoto rivals Apollo Justice's in his original game; that is to say, Phoenix's importance in current and past events has been marginalized. Pushing him back to give the "new generation" characters precedence is fine and dandy, but his relationships with other characters have been fragmented and dissolved to the point where he lacks much of his original characterization.

A major concern is his friendship with Maya, which currently has little basis in the SMako storyline. She appears to spend most of her time in Kurain or evading the clutches of Morgan, and before the "Borginia Incident" Phoenix is supposedly on military duty alongside Mia. After Kurain's Destruction, she all but disappears, leaving little time for interaction with Phoenix.

The issue is that in the original game's storyline, Mia's death sparked the relationship between Maya and Phoenix. In SMako, Mia's death has been completely removed from Maya's sphere of influence. There currently seems to be no hard plot points for Maya and Phoenix to connect over.

Even in the absence of plot points, it's easy enough to perhaps contrive an alternate history, making their friendship preclude the timeline events. After all, we were willing to have Maya knowingly bring Pearl to Will Powers, the Steel Samurai. Why not have Maya and Phoenix know each other from the get-go as well?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Meet the Cadaverinis
This is a current estimate of the extent of the immediate Cadaverini family. As you can see, Bruto's son was Viola's father, and Viola's mother was originally a Vasquez, being Dee's sister. Lydia is a younger cousin by Viola's uncle. Nothing defines a Mafia more than its family ties! ("Dandee" is actually "Tanpopo Himegami," from the fan translation of the "Turnabout Crossover" manga available on Court-Records.net—by the last name, Tanpopo can be construed to be Dee's sister)

Attempting to define the Cadaverini clan is interesting because it's an intersection of two concepts in its current form: that of an organized crime family and also a bloodline upholding a somewhat clandestine tradition of witchcraft. It can be construed that the Vasquez family is another group of witches, thus explaining Dee's powers and their favor with the Cadaverini family resulting in or allowing the union of Viola's mother and father. (According to characterization, Dandee is rather headstrong, so she may well have just muscled her way in—ah, romance!)

(According to SMako, though, Dandee is dead and gone by the time current arc rolls around. Sorry, Dandee!)

One idea is that the Cadaverini clan is in fact aching for a female heir of the bloodline to lead them—usually, witches are organized into matriarchies. An unfortunate string of sons for two or more generations has pushed the Cadaverini to relatively desperate straits, allowing someone like Dee to get uncomfortably close in order to protect Viola, the chosen heir. This does present the issue of Lydia also being included as a candidate for inheritance, though...

Perhaps this could tie in with the older ideas of the "Oracle" or some other secret that the Cadaverini clan has been protecting.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Power Creeps
Going back to the idea of fragmented relationships, the Franziska/Adrian basis for SMako has caused quite a bit of stress on Adrian's normal associates: Matt, Juan, and Celeste. While Celeste and Juan maintain some proximity, Matt was early on entirely removed from the situation and placed in a distant position with the Holy Trinity mutants. How to get him back into the picture to form a rivalry of any sort with Juan and possibly turning his sights to Adrian?

One suggestion was to promote Matt late in the series, possibly after Holy Trinity's destruction, to becoming Manfred's new lieutenant. After all, being part of the "super soldier" project at Holy Trinity, and having demonstrated his ability, Matt should be a good candidate for all that. What's more, he may even rise through the ranks so fast as to threaten displacing the aging General Gitaroo: Juan Corrida, who relies on his mechanical armor and cybernetic implants to keep himself operational. And perhaps, where Corrida's memories of Celeste may have impaired his judgment, Matt would carry on hunting Adrian and Franziska more ruthlessly than ever.

And the other Holy Trinity mutant, Furio Tigre. He used to have a place of relatively great importance in the original game storyline: a true blue villain (at least when impersonating Phoenix)! As it stands right now, he's actually been relegated to a nearly literal "pet" role, being a tiger with human DNA and mutations that make him into a beast-man, an original product of Holy Trinity's experiments. His characterization as a thug has been torn apart and put back together in a new way... Talk about Frankenstein monsters! But how can we make him more important to the story outside of being the mad doctors' plaything...?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The 'Thorne Conspiracy
It's been theorized that Redd White may have been using good old blackmail to pull Valerie's strings, forcing her to do her assassin work without question. Specifically, revealing the information that her step-father is a no-good jewel smuggler. Perhaps he launders conflict diamonds to fund Manfred's empire, or is in possession of powerful magic gems he stole from the Feys? This can be interpreted in a number of ways: Mr. Hawthorne's life could be forfeit, as Redd could easily have the man's criminal identity exposed to Interpol; or maybe Mr. Hawthorne is in on the scheme after all, counting on his step-daughter's sense of valor to prevent her from turning him in.

However it goes, it would certainly make great ammunition against an Interpol superagent that discovers that their "Kill On Sight" target assignments follow particular patterns...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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HEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYY. I DID NOT DESIGN PEARL AFTER SHINOBU. IN FACT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW SHE WAS YOU JUST CHARACTERIZED HER THAT WAY OMG WHY DOES NO ONE LISTEN TO ME

just kidding. But AGH I am so excited about Smako getting back on its feet and what not. I really should draw some more stoof for it. :/ Also, it gives me the warm fuzzies to see one of my Smako designs drawn by somebody else besides meeeee.

Also, I am up for adding to Trucy's civilian wardrobe... shouldn't she be getting a school uniform of some sort as well? Or does she go to a ...non uniform school? .-.

I don't think Ivy High School requires uniforms, myself. It's more interesting to me to see the characters expressing their own tastes in clothing, even the faculty.

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Only semi-related, but:

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All things considered, you're dead on with those tats!

As an aside, we need a name for the events leading up to Celeste's rebellion, including Gregory's entrapment and Misty's disappearance. That and we still have to hammer out how exactly Gregory died...

Last edited by MoronSonOfBoron on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.