Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Gnobo wrote:
Like father like daughter.
Spoiler: Injured Jade
She still looks lovely even though she's injured.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Spoiler: Phoenix and Franziska
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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CatMuto wrote:
With Clarence being a lawyer and spirit medium, I have to say...
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
Ummm...elaborate?
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Gnobo wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
With Clarence being a lawyer and spirit medium, I have to say...
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
Ummm...elaborate?
Well, with Clarence you made him an attorney as well as a spirit medium. Meaning, he does both things that made the parents 'special' and that's something that often happens with OCs, whether they are just Original Characters or fan-created kids of heroes.
Basically, it makes Clarence seem even more special than his parents already were. Piling on stuff to make them unique is generally a bad thing. Making them too special makes them almost seem invincible and supremely perfect, leading to the Gary Stu (Male name of the Mary Sue) phenomenon
That's a problem, actually, with creating any Original Character.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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CatMuto wrote:
Gnobo wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
With Clarence being a lawyer and spirit medium, I have to say...
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
1. Gary Stu
2. I thought it was made clear that men cannot be spirit medium as they lack the... spirit... channeling... blood thingy...
C-A
Ummm...elaborate?
Well, with Clarence you made him an attorney as well as a spirit medium. Meaning, he does both things that made the parents 'special' and that's something that often happens with OCs, whether they are just Original Characters or fan-created kids of heroes.
Basically, it makes Clarence seem even more special than his parents already were. Piling on stuff to make them unique is generally a bad thing. Making them too special makes them almost seem invincible and supremely perfect, leading to the Gary Stu (Male name of the Mary Sue) phenomenon
That's a problem, actually, with creating any Original Character.
C-A
Hmmm...very true. All this does make him very special. Is there any way I could possibly balance out his character so he's not too 'perfect'? Because this might be helpful for me and Emiko Gale when writing his character, and I know we would both rather not use a writing cliche that'll make our characters less interesting or unrealistic.
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Gnobo wrote:
Hmmm...very true. All this does make him very special. Is there any way I could possibly balance out his character so he's not too 'perfect'? Because this might be helpful for me and Emiko Gale when writing his character, and I know we would both rather not use a writing cliche that'll make our characters less interesting or unrealistic.
That is always a very tough thing with creating Original Characters - you want them to be unique, but not so unique that they go into the Mary Sue/Gary Stu area. You also don't want to contradict things that have been set in stone via canon. You can change a few things, but nothing major. And personally, I would try to avoid making them seem like carbon copies of mom or dad...
For Clarance, first of all, remove the Spirit Medium thing. Maya says herself, the women are the ones who have the ability to channel spirits in the Fey bloodline and men don't. So having him have that ability is already a giant contradiction to canon as well as make him extra special - the One Male Spirit Channeler.
Then think about what kind of environment Clarance grew up in. Did he live with both parents? Where did he live? Rural town à la Kurain or a city? How would he grow up, what could be the 'rules' he grew up with. What's the norm for him when it comes to familiar interaction or simply social interaction?
That can already make a huge impact on a character. Somebody who grew up in a rural area might find the city to be overwhelming, maybe even intimidating. Look at his parents: Maya and Phoenix. What do you think a kid of theirs would grow up to be like?
Perhaps he tends to eat large portions, because he grew up seeing Maya eat large portions. Maybe he's a bit cynical or distrusting, having seen Phoenix be lied to by clients at times. It's possible that he is a bit on the superstitious side, what with growing up with the idea of spirit channeling and he could think anything mystical is real.
Regarding weaknesses... again, it can vary and depend on their environment. Mentioned above, Clarence could be a distrusting person. It's likely that Clarence is a good lawyer, but perhaps his interaction with clients isn't that great, because he's much more likely to be a little suspicious of their account of things. It's a weakness, one that makes sense given his surroundings and it does have a also a good side to it - he's less likely to fall into a trap cause he's too trusting.
Creating a deep and unique-but-not-too-special character takes time and relies on a lot of little details that might seem unimportant.
Haruka, the name of the heroine of my TokiMemo Story, is based on the blank shell heroine from the game. Being a blank shell, I can do pretty much anything I want as long as it still fits into the realistic environment of TokiMemo. I've been going over her details off and on for about 2-3 years now and I'm still trying to think things through.
C-A
PS: When it comes to Apollo's and Pearl's child, same thing.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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CatMuto wrote:
Gnobo wrote:
Hmmm...very true. All this does make him very special. Is there any way I could possibly balance out his character so he's not too 'perfect'? Because this might be helpful for me and Emiko Gale when writing his character, and I know we would both rather not use a writing cliche that'll make our characters less interesting or unrealistic.
That is always a very tough thing with creating Original Characters - you want them to be unique, but not so unique that they go into the Mary Sue/Gary Stu area. You also don't want to contradict things that have been set in stone via canon. You can change a few things, but nothing major. And personally, I would try to avoid making them seem like carbon copies of mom or dad...
For Clarance, first of all, remove the Spirit Medium thing. Maya says herself, the women are the ones who have the ability to channel spirits in the Fey bloodline and men don't. So having him have that ability is already a giant contradiction to canon as well as make him extra special - the One Male Spirit Channeler.
Then think about what kind of environment Clarance grew up in. Did he live with both parents? Where did he live? Rural town à la Kurain or a city? How would he grow up, what could be the 'rules' he grew up with. What's the norm for him when it comes to familiar interaction or simply social interaction?
That can already make a huge impact on a character. Somebody who grew up in a rural area might find the city to be overwhelming, maybe even intimidating. Look at his parents: Maya and Phoenix. What do you think a kid of theirs would grow up to be like?
Perhaps he tends to eat large portions, because he grew up seeing Maya eat large portions. Maybe he's a bit cynical or distrusting, having seen Phoenix be lied to by clients at times. It's possible that he is a bit on the superstitious side, what with growing up with the idea of spirit channeling and he could think anything mystical is real.
Regarding weaknesses... again, it can vary and depend on their environment. Mentioned above, Clarence could be a distrusting person. It's likely that Clarence is a good lawyer, but perhaps his interaction with clients isn't that great, because he's much more likely to be a little suspicious of their account of things. It's a weakness, one that makes sense given his surroundings and it does have a also a good side to it - he's less likely to fall into a trap cause he's too trusting.
Creating a deep and unique-but-not-too-special character takes time and relies on a lot of little details that might seem unimportant.
Haruka, the name of the heroine of my TokiMemo Story, is based on the blank shell heroine from the game. Being a blank shell, I can do pretty much anything I want as long as it still fits into the realistic environment of TokiMemo. I've been going over her details off and on for about 2-3 years now and I'm still trying to think things through.
C-A
PS: When it comes to Apollo's and Pearl's child, same thing.
Well, about the whole not being a spirit medium thing, it's too late to change anything even if I wanted to, because how far me and Emiko have gotten into publishing our fanfic. So even though it may be a huge contradiction in canon, the only way we can deal with it right now is to just go with it.
We've kind of established his character in some form. Like Maya, he can act a little immature for his age. Like her, he's also become a fan of the Steel Samurai, and he's looked down for his rather childish tastes since he is an adult. He also has a slightly arrogant side to him, like Phoenix was when he started his career. He does have faith in his clients, but he can get pretty cocky. It's honestly not much, but I'm confident me and Emiko can do something more with character in the chapters to come.
Now as for Jade Justice, she's a girl, so there's not really a contradiction with her being trained as a spirit medium as well as a lawyer.
In Clarence Wright: Ace Attorney, she acts as Clarence's partner. However, she doesn't act hyper and jumpy like Maya, Kay, Trucy, and probably Athena. She's more the quiet, smart, and snarky type. She's very dedicated to being a defense attorney, but she's different from Renny in that she relies more on the weight of the evidence rather than trusting before-hand that clients are innocent.
She's always been a sort of quiet type with only a handful of close friends since she didn't really like most of the people she was grouped with in high school. So as a result, she focused mainly on her studies rather than on building relationships. She's incredibly smart and she's actually completely capable of handling her own cases. In fact, she dropped out of her high school to study abroad in Germany about law, and she took a few cases there.
There was also an attempt on her life during her two-year studying in Germany which further cemented her as a distrusting person. Despite her fear and depression after this incident, she still tries to keep an outer appearance of mental and emotional strength so she could keep her reputation of being a independent, young, and brilliant lawyer.
Her wanting to keep this pure reputation is why she hasn't even quit from her job. She also needs to find someone who she could trust because of that incident, so that's why she wanted to work alongside Renny. She doesn't say that reason outright, however. She tries to cover it up by saying that Renny could use some of her help in his own cases.
So that's sort of the jist of Jade's character.
Just a side-note, for Jade Justice: Ace Attorney, could you give me an overview of the law enforcement in Germany? Since I don't know how much different it is from America's police, detectives, prosecutors, courts, etc. I trust you're a much more reliable source for this kind of stuff than Wikipedia might be.
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Quote:
Now as for Jade Justice, she's a girl, so there's not really a contradiction with her being trained as a spirit medium as well as a lawyer.
I never said her being trained as a Spirit Medium is wrong. I was saying to create a decent OC, you need to do the same steps of thinking as with Clarence.
As for keeping Clarence being a Spirit Medium to just go with it because of the story now, fine. But there are readers who take canon seriously. I know I take it a little too seriously at times, but basic knowledge of canon is required to make a good story with OCs or even just the characters from the fanchise itself.
Quote:
There was also an attempt on her life during her two-year studying in Germany which further cemented her as a distrusting person.
And why was that done?
Unless it's important to the plot and not just done to make her a bit special, it's pointless.
Quote:
Just a side-note, for Jade Justice: Ace Attorney, could you give me an overview of the law enforcement in Germany? Since I don't know how much different it is from America's police, detectives, prosecutors, courts, etc. I trust you're a much more reliable source for this kind of stuff than Wikipedia might be.
I can do that, yes. I'm trying to get a job training me in the legal profession right now, anyway.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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But I'll write Clarence the way I feel he should be...And to be honest I don't consider him a Gary Stu at all.
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Emiko Gale wrote:
But I'll write Clarence the way I feel he should be...And to be honest I don't consider him a Gary Stu at all.
Even if you're spitting into the face of canon?
As for the Gary Stu-ness, well, most people don't think their OCs are Gary Stus. Some of them really aren't, but others have traces of it or really are them. It just depends on the view of things and how special the character is.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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And Gnobo and I did our research on male mediums.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Emiko Gale wrote:
I don't care! I refuse to believe in this tedious concept you people treat so religiously.
And Gnobo and I did our research on male mediums.
And Gnobo and I did our research on male mediums.
Easy there Emiko, as much as it pains me to say this Cat is right here. I like the design on him and think Gnobo's art is awesome but as much as male mediums exist in reality in AA universe it's a bloodline thing passed down only to women. Now I won't think less of Clarence for it but it might make some folks roll their eyes when they see this guy has every special talent out there, including ones he's not even meant to get.
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Emiko Gale wrote:
Well I don't care what the others think...It's too late to change this and I plan on making it work.
Out of pure curiosity, how will you do that? I'm sure it can be done, but it would tread on a thin line where any simple action can have him slip from the side of "Oh now you're just saying Fuck This Shit and doing it your way" and the "Oh now that is done in a way that it's possible"
In Clarence's case you can have him be a spirit medium just fine. Just don't portray him as a good one. What I can see possible with him is that he can channel spirits, but due to being male and not being trained, he could be struggling to channel spirits or be incapable of channeling them for a prolonged period of time.
Quote:
I don't care! I refuse to believe in this tedious concept you people treat so religiously.
Emiko, not every person treats Canon as a religious thing you need to follow to a T. I know I do, but that's because I have read too many fanfictions that go against the basics that were established in canon and it generally ends up with terrible results: Out of Character behavior, Plot Holes, Inconcistencies, probably even something that is so dumb it just makes the reader slap their hand into their head.
But even if somebody doesn't follow Canon all the way through, every writer should follow at least the basics. Otherwise I could just go ahead and call Phoenix 'Jack' and Maya will be renamed 'Tina' because Screw Canon, these are the names I gave them.
And male Spirit Channelers, while they may exist, are not as important or at least not as well trained as the female ones. GS-verse has repeatedly stated that it's the women who do all the channeling and not the men.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Emiko Gale wrote:
I wasn't talking about the canon...I was talking about the Mary Sue/Gary Stu concept...It's grinding my gears.
Ah, I see. Perhaps my understanding is wrong, but religiously believing in Mary Sues/Gary Stues sounds like we love them. Actually, majority of people hate them. Why? Because they are too damn special and completely take the focus away from the original characters. Putting a Mary Sue-ish OC into a franchise will eventually result in the OC being the main focus - they are the ones defeating the bad guys, getting the love interests, changing established characters' personalities, getting all the awesome upgrades and all that. The original characters will be completely ignored and became useless because everything will focus on that Mary Sue OC.
If you want a canon example of that, look at Apollo. He was a new character, but Phoenix practically stole the show - he's like a canon, 'subtle' version of a Gary Stu. He completely overshadows Apollo and is basically the mastermind of the entire game and poor Apollo ended up incredibly bland as a character. Even Trucy got barely much of a personality aside from her bubbliness because Apollo Justice focused on Phoenix and his awesome plan, which we knew nothing of until the end. (The entire plot of GS4 was supposedly to be absolutely different and focus on Apollo's past, but then they had to show the Jury System being re-established in Japan in a good light, so they rushed and threw AJ together...)
Nobody's against writers creating OCs.
They're simply afraid that an OC will end up as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Which isn't fun to read at all. And they know, or at least should know, how hard it is to have an OC who doesn't evolve into MS/GS.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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CatMuto wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
I wasn't talking about the canon...I was talking about the Mary Sue/Gary Stu concept...It's grinding my gears.
Ah, I see. Perhaps my understanding is wrong, but religiously believing in Mary Sues/Gary Stues sounds like we love them. Actually, majority of people hate them. Why? Because they are too damn special and completely take the focus away from the original characters. Putting a Mary Sue-ish OC into a franchise will eventually result in the OC being the main focus - they are the ones defeating the bad guys, getting the love interests, changing established characters' personalities, getting all the awesome upgrades and all that. The original characters will be completely ignored and became useless because everything will focus on that Mary Sue OC.
If you want a canon example of that, look at Apollo. He was a new character, but Phoenix practically stole the show - he's like a canon, 'subtle' version of a Gary Stu. He completely overshadows Apollo and is basically the mastermind of the entire game and poor Apollo ended up incredibly bland as a character. Even Trucy got barely much of a personality aside from her bubbliness because Apollo Justice focused on Phoenix and his awesome plan, which we knew nothing of until the end. (The entire plot of GS4 was supposedly to be absolutely different and focus on Apollo's past, but then they had to show the Jury System being re-established in Japan in a good light, so they rushed and threw AJ together...)
Nobody's against writers creating OCs.
They're simply afraid that an OC will end up as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Which isn't fun to read at all. And they know, or at least should know, how hard it is to have an OC who doesn't evolve into MS/GS.
C-A
Ok...That was actually quite interesting to read. Ok ok! I'll take my slice of humble pie...Now can we please stop fighting?
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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What I mean is, we're not fighting.
We were discussing something that is important about the creation of OCs and, while this is an art thread about said OCs, it is important to know nonetheless.
C-A
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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If I may, please do April X Wellington. :3
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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CatMuto wrote:
You sound like Nanako from Persona 4 - people just talking about some important stuff and she comes in with a worried face, saying "Are you two fighting?" I know she has her sheltered experiences, but I wonder how she'd react when she sees people really fighting...
What I mean is, we're not fighting.
We were discussing something that is important about the creation of OCs and, while this is an art thread about said OCs, it is important to know nonetheless.
C-A
What I mean is, we're not fighting.
We were discussing something that is important about the creation of OCs and, while this is an art thread about said OCs, it is important to know nonetheless.
C-A
Interjection: You can find out what she's like when people are actually fighting bizarrely enough, in Persona 4 Arena she's an unlockable Commentator for the fights.
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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~Dataman~ wrote:
May I request a pairing kid? :3
If I may, please do April X Wellington. :3
If I may, please do April X Wellington. :3
Oh wow! An original pairing.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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And Em, I kind of have to agree with what Cat said. It wasn't really a fight. To me, this felt more like a debate about writing OC's. Though, I'd probably still keep my distance away from discussing this because for one, I'll admit I'm still sort of an amateur writer, and two, I'm afraid I'd get too emotional in debates.
...But thanks for wanting to keep the peace here.
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Emiyo Gnobo Gavi wrote:
I decided to try something a little different, and I think it's my best work of all time!
Spoiler: Edgeworth and Oldbag
YUSSSSSSSS
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Hooowee! This place sure is a mess around here!
Better revive this place with a little something...If there's anyone who still cares about this thread, have a fanfiction! ^-^
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9590711/1/Adrianna-Wright-Fool-s-Attorney
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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Spoiler: Edgeziska
Spoiler: Justicykes
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Last edited by Yash K. Productions on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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PflanzenPokemonFan wrote:
My Idea for a New Pairing's Kid : Simon Blackquill and Athena Cykes
Let me guess:
Spoiler: Cykesquill
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
Your Honor! There is a contradiction!
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Spoiler: Apollo and Vera (Not sure of the ship name)
Spoiler: Apollo and Ema (Again not sure of the ship name)
Also if I may request a pairing kid, Phoenix and Mia. (There's never enough love for this ship)
I got my icon HERE! http://nochordsofsteelnojustice.tumblr.com/private/45693242921/tumblr_mjvhj6NJBF1s8g7t7
Take That!
Take That!
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
Atuyhan Ihdamdhas
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shippersdreamer wrote:
Spoiler: Apollo and Vera (Not sure of the ship name)
Spoiler: Apollo and Ema (Again not sure of the ship name)
Also if I may request a pairing kid, Phoenix and Mia. (There's never enough love for this ship)
Nice. BTW, for the ship name, just use the Japanese names. For example: Odomako (Apollo and Vera), and Odoaka (Apollo and Ema).
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
:)
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Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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I'd love to get back to work on something, but of course I still have school work to deal with, and I'm also cranking out fanfics on my own page at FF.net.
But I love the fact that I have fellow Justiskye fans here giving me ideas...Hmmm, Lana Artemis Skye? I like that name. I might even use it.
Re: AA Pairings' Kids
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Finally! Another one of these. Hope I haven't gotten too rusty.
Spoiler: Lana Artemis Justice
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