Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Percei wrote:
Wrestler Hatman wrote:
Percei wrote:
So, I have to ask, how often does this honestly happen?
Far more often than you're obviously willing to admit. Ur durr.
I said honestly, did you read the entire paragraph? This likely isn't the most common happening, and probably isn't 99% accurate. Read my full post. I never said I wasn't willing to admit anything. I just said that this wasn't very common. Not that it never happend. Ur durr.
First of, yes, I did read the entire paragraph, don't worry.
1) Using "honestly, how often do this happen?" as an argument whilst pointing towards advances in technology can't be seen as anything but a nice rethorical touch, I'm afraid. I'm assuming that you, as myself, don't have any special insight in what makes a death sentences and what doesn't. I am assuming this, of course, as you didn't write anything to prove me wrong.
2) Either way, I'll have to agree, todays technology should make it simple to judge whoever is guilty and whoever isn't. That's the voice of an unknowing "Joe Public". BUT - I can't know this for sure - is there really never any room of doubt? Can the evidence always be trusted? Should we trust the court of law with the irreversible power of taking someones life? Shouldn't we always watch the instititusions of power with a critical eye? That's my reason: I can't know that a death sentences is just, and always will be just, and therefore I don't trust any institution of popular opinion (which is so easily manipulated) with such weapons.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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You could argue that a jury can be corrupt. Sometimes yes, again there are happenings, but there would have to be huge amounts of corruption to get a fully corrupt, twelve person jury, when in a lot of cases, if there were corruption, it would only be one or two. Commonly. Take note: I'm not saying ALWAYS.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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And your last paragraph: Would it really take so much to get a fully corrupt jury? What if the entire society is corrupted? It would certainly be easy to misuse the power granted in more peaceful times, do you see what I mean? And of course, I can imagine how lawyers, media and general public easily can persuade a jury into passing sentences that isn't necessarily quite just. Not to mention that judges (in my own homeland, at least) have even more power than the jury. But I too lack any real insight at this point, so I can only come up with "what if" scenarios. I admit that my post isn't exactly devestating, it's just some personal feelings
I can see that there are persons who deserve death, I'm just frightened by the thought of a government delivering it. I belive in sceptisism towards the institutions of power.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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BizarrOle wrote:
I can see that there are persons who deserve death, I'm just frightened by the thought of a government delivering it.
Who, then, would handle it?
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Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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A bench trial is like those in phoenix wright, Prosecution, Defense, Judge, and Possibly Witnesses. Also, in most cases you wouldn't be having your life in the hands of just the first 12. If you think about it, most Death Sentences have an appeal, so you'd be putting your life in the hands of 24 people, who might just decide the same verdict.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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One guy argued he had to have hardcore porn and got it! gee. If a 10 year stretch is only marred with a slight irritating of buggery and having to get up in the morning, then why are we even working our arse off being 'proper' citizens.
The failings on 'rehabilitation' is the stigma attached of having a record, finding work after being 'inside' and simply outside influences and ties you can not shake I guess.
People are not born bad after all, they grow to be bad.. but by which influences? society? social-economical? parents? schools? goverment? tv? games? HAHAHA
I am amused.
End note, capital punishment is a weak resort, it does not fix problems it ends them yet without understanding the problem thus never fixing it. Plus I would always worry about the whole idea of sending someone to their death for a crime they did not commit.
blah blah blah I am ranting blabbering and did not really read the topic at all, sorry.
In cases where the jury decide, it is worest, people are stupid and blinded by shiney ob.... *runs off after a shiney Penny*
"So apparently P/I fan + Insecurity + airheadedness + strange kinks + bad grasp of reality + over eagerness = bad user........." D= /D\
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
stirring
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Percei wrote:
If in a moral sense, not to be blunt, but grow up..
Not to be blunt, but you have a stupid avatar.
HERF DERF CHECK OUT MY POLITICAL VIEWS HERF DERF
How about you grow up instead?
"Imagine. No Liberals"
More like "Imagine. Stagnating society"
I could never take seriously somebody who wears a political identity on their sleeve.
If you come across an older post of mine, sowwy
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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And frankly, you have absolutely zero ground to be talking, when its just about impossible to take you seriously under all circumstances.
EDIT: I'm gonna end here and stop it from turning into a petty argument.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Percei wrote:
Where else am I supposed to wear it, on the tag of my underwear?
No, you don't wear it at all.
Percei wrote:
I'm very outspoken. As are numerous other people. Is that a crime? It's not like I go flaming everything I see... unlike some.
I don't care what you are and they're just as dumb for doing it. It's as moronic as political bumper stickers. It's all about being a territorial loser and asserting your beliefs nobody cares about. What do you expect? Do you want somebody to go "aw, that's so nice that you're outspoken"?
On that matter, what do you think you're doing by being outspoken. What does something as fruitless as "look liberals are dumb durrrr" accomplish other than to make you feel better about your politics?
Percei wrote:
EDIT: I'm gonna end here and stop it from turning into a petty argument.
Oh no no no, let's keep this going. We've already covered Capital Punishment from to back, this is boring. And I mean come on, really, you're the one wearing the avatar, if you don't expect somebody to react, what is it you're wearing it for?
If you come across an older post of mine, sowwy
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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JasmineJustice: A good question indeed. I really don't know.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Percei wrote:
In what sense do executions cost more? If in a moral sense, not to be blunt, but grow up. This is the real world, things happen, terrible things. I'm sure executions cannot cost more than what I stated earlier, and most of that's probably processing cost.
no, appeals, processing, all of that wastes more time and money than putting them in prison. yes, people kill each other. but how does more killing solve this?
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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However it is also an easy release for a person who deserves to be punished way more than death.
I think courts should be more creative with their sentences and ensure that the weight of what the criminal has done is hung over their heads and that every day the rue the day they committed a crime.
essentialy just traumatise them for life.
Nothing.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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antonis wrote:
Killing criminals is wrong because you are just sinking to their level.
However it is also an easy release for a person who deserves to be punished way more than death.
I think courts should be more creative with their sentences and ensure that the weight of what the criminal has done is hung over their heads and that every day the rue the day they committed a crime.
essentialy just traumatise them for life.
However it is also an easy release for a person who deserves to be punished way more than death.
I think courts should be more creative with their sentences and ensure that the weight of what the criminal has done is hung over their heads and that every day the rue the day they committed a crime.
essentialy just traumatise them for life.
i'm pretty sure something like that would be classified as "cruel and unusual"
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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L_J wrote:
antonis wrote:
Killing criminals is wrong because you are just sinking to their level.
However it is also an easy release for a person who deserves to be punished way more than death.
I think courts should be more creative with their sentences and ensure that the weight of what the criminal has done is hung over their heads and that every day the rue the day they committed a crime.
essentialy just traumatise them for life.
However it is also an easy release for a person who deserves to be punished way more than death.
I think courts should be more creative with their sentences and ensure that the weight of what the criminal has done is hung over their heads and that every day the rue the day they committed a crime.
essentialy just traumatise them for life.
i'm pretty sure something like that would be classified as "cruel and unusual"
The only way life in prison would be punishment for a person like that would be if our prisons were like Russia's. PURE HELL.
since that isn't the case...FRY EM'
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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No surprise really, but still...
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Greeny wrote:
Rotan! You've done time in Russian jail!?!
No surprise really, but still...
No surprise really, but still...
Yep. I beat the shit out of a commie who pissed me off. Because they hate commies over there now it was only 2 days
It's called TV.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/26/kansas.killings/index.html
Killed a 41-Year old mother and her 3-Year old daughter, a 66-Year Old man and a 21-Year Old woman.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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SupwithyouSammie wrote:
While I think there are more reasons than just that, both of you are still right.
But at the same time, you might not of experienced that pain or want for "revenge"
I was reading an article about the death penalty that described this situation:
If a man steals your bicycle, you would be upset. If he got to keep the bicycle after he was found guilty, that would rule in many peoples minds as "unfair"
If a man steals a life, some would be upset. If he got to keep his life after he was found guilty, that should also be "unfair"
Sort of an "eye for an eye" way of thought.
But at the same time, you might not of experienced that pain or want for "revenge"
I was reading an article about the death penalty that described this situation:
If a man steals your bicycle, you would be upset. If he got to keep the bicycle after he was found guilty, that would rule in many peoples minds as "unfair"
If a man steals a life, some would be upset. If he got to keep his life after he was found guilty, that should also be "unfair"
Sort of an "eye for an eye" way of thought.
Worst. Analogy. Ever. Who wrote this article, Ini Miney?
The criminal didn't steal the bike. They broke it, threw it in a junkyard and compacted it. In short, the bike is no longer servicable. Furthermore, based on said analogy, said bike is an irreplacable collector's item whose owner cherished very much. It's fair if they keep their own bike, but hardly fair if they get off scot-free. They should give some form of compensation and should receive punishment to prevent a repeat offense. Whether it's mental (like corporal punishment) or physical (like imprisonment), the authorities should make an effort to stop criminals being, well criminals.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Platinum Skye wrote:
Hey Johnny Rotan, here's a case in Kansas they're considering Capital Punishment on.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/26/kansas.killings/index.html
Killed a 41-Year old mother and her 3-Year old daughter, a 66-Year Old man and a 21-Year Old woman.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/26/kansas.killings/index.html
Killed a 41-Year old mother and her 3-Year old daughter, a 66-Year Old man and a 21-Year Old woman.
I have no objections to that, if it's that many and that sadistic. Nearly all other cases, however...
EDIT: Actually, no. That goes against what I think. Just give him hell, not death.
What
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Turnabout Clerk wrote:
Killings should not be solved by more killings.
Amen. Fighting fire with fire just creates more flames.
Put this on the end of your Sig everyone:
BRING BACK LIND_L_TAILOR AND BLACKJACK
Make a tribute to them here and help get them back here.
BRING BACK LIND_L_TAILOR AND BLACKJACK
Make a tribute to them here and help get them back here.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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My answer: I am against it. Why?
First off, lets start with the irreversability of it. Its definitely a permanant move and cannot be reversed if stuffed up. I only believe it to be a very, very rare occurence as I believe that justice is served properly most of the time. Yet, it is inevitable that mistakes will occur and innocent people are killed.
Secondly, I believe that death is an escape. An example is how when people who are suffering from illness die, people claim "they are in peace". Yet, this can be said to people who murder others. Killing them will also put them in peace, people who are remorseful and feel terrible for their crimes will simply get snuffed out and won't have to worry. I know there are people who feel no remorse for their actions, they won't ever feel any remorse or guilt at all. Yet...killing them removes them and will wipe away their actions. Keeping them alive reminds us just how evil they are. Now, when you say that people won't forget their actions, that is true, we musn't forget. Yet why is it that our idea of sociopathic killer is Charles Manson, who happenes to still be rotting? I know thats probably a terrible case, but I'm not really sure of any truly terrible killers. As I have said, for those who feel remorse, a far more suitable punishment would be to let them rot in jail for life, reliving that one moment their life changed and never being able to change it.
Thirdly, murder=killing, execution=killing, therefore murder=execution. I fail to see any way that logic can be tested. Yeah sure, law permits it. Yet Law comes from people and their understanding, so people appyling law=people using law as a murder weapon. I thought that even if you kill a killer, you'll be killed for it...yet this is exactly what this weapon known as law does, kills killers (tongue twister much?)
Fourthly, it can be corrupted. For example, in Australia, a man was charged with smuggling 400 grams of heroin out of Singapore. He was hung. I'm sorry, but how is that excusable for murder? I know drugs ruin lives, but this man was desperate for money. Why does carrying heroin or any drugs permit anyone to kill someone? I know perhaps that this is an extreme example, but this is indeed true. This weapon known as lawful murder or 'execution' can be corrupted and used for ridiculous reasons.
I'm sure my reasons are very debatable, but this is what I believe.
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Shiun Enshidia wrote:
Ok, I've read every post, some only briefly. I would first like to state my moral highground. I'm an adolescent Australian who is an athiest who believes religion is the root of evil, but this is not the place to discuss this. This is to discuss whether Execution is right or not.
My answer: I am against it. Why?
First off, lets start with the irreversability of it. Its definitely a permanant move and cannot be reversed if stuffed up. I only believe it to be a very, very rare occurence as I believe that justice is served properly most of the time. Yet, it is inevitable that mistakes will occur and innocent people are killed.
Secondly, I believe that death is an escape. An example is how when people who are suffering from illness die, people claim "they are in peace". Yet, this can be said to people who murder others. Killing them will also put them in peace, people who are remorseful and feel terrible for their crimes will simply get snuffed out and won't have to worry. I know there are people who feel no remorse for their actions, they won't ever feel any remorse or guilt at all. Yet...killing them removes them and will wipe away their actions. Keeping them alive reminds us just how evil they are. Now, when you say that people won't forget their actions, that is true, we musn't forget. Yet why is it that our idea of sociopathic killer is Charles Manson, who happenes to still be rotting? I know thats probably a terrible case, but I'm not really sure of any truly terrible killers. As I have said, for those who feel remorse, a far more suitable punishment would be to let them rot in jail for life, reliving that one moment their life changed and never being able to change it.
Thirdly, murder=killing, execution=killing, therefore murder=execution. I fail to see any way that logic can be tested. Yeah sure, law permits it. Yet Law comes from people and their understanding, so people appyling law=people using law as a murder weapon. I thought that even if you kill a killer, you'll be killed for it...yet this is exactly what this weapon known as law does, kills killers (tongue twister much?)
Fourthly, it can be corrupted. For example, in Australia, a man was charged with smuggling 400 grams of heroin out of Singapore. He was hung. I'm sorry, but how is that excusable for murder? I know drugs ruin lives, but this man was desperate for money. Why does carrying heroin or any drugs permit anyone to kill someone? I know perhaps that this is an extreme example, but this is indeed true. This weapon known as lawful murder or 'execution' can be corrupted and used for ridiculous reasons.
I'm sure my reasons are very debatable, but this is what I believe.
My answer: I am against it. Why?
First off, lets start with the irreversability of it. Its definitely a permanant move and cannot be reversed if stuffed up. I only believe it to be a very, very rare occurence as I believe that justice is served properly most of the time. Yet, it is inevitable that mistakes will occur and innocent people are killed.
Secondly, I believe that death is an escape. An example is how when people who are suffering from illness die, people claim "they are in peace". Yet, this can be said to people who murder others. Killing them will also put them in peace, people who are remorseful and feel terrible for their crimes will simply get snuffed out and won't have to worry. I know there are people who feel no remorse for their actions, they won't ever feel any remorse or guilt at all. Yet...killing them removes them and will wipe away their actions. Keeping them alive reminds us just how evil they are. Now, when you say that people won't forget their actions, that is true, we musn't forget. Yet why is it that our idea of sociopathic killer is Charles Manson, who happenes to still be rotting? I know thats probably a terrible case, but I'm not really sure of any truly terrible killers. As I have said, for those who feel remorse, a far more suitable punishment would be to let them rot in jail for life, reliving that one moment their life changed and never being able to change it.
Thirdly, murder=killing, execution=killing, therefore murder=execution. I fail to see any way that logic can be tested. Yeah sure, law permits it. Yet Law comes from people and their understanding, so people appyling law=people using law as a murder weapon. I thought that even if you kill a killer, you'll be killed for it...yet this is exactly what this weapon known as law does, kills killers (tongue twister much?)
Fourthly, it can be corrupted. For example, in Australia, a man was charged with smuggling 400 grams of heroin out of Singapore. He was hung. I'm sorry, but how is that excusable for murder? I know drugs ruin lives, but this man was desperate for money. Why does carrying heroin or any drugs permit anyone to kill someone? I know perhaps that this is an extreme example, but this is indeed true. This weapon known as lawful murder or 'execution' can be corrupted and used for ridiculous reasons.
I'm sure my reasons are very debatable, but this is what I believe.
This, in a rather large nutshell.
What
Re: Your Opinions On Capital Punishment
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Shiun Enshidia wrote:
Thirdly, murder=killing, execution=killing, therefore murder=execution. I fail to see any way that logic can be tested.
Allow me to try. There are times, albeit few, when killing is justifiable. Self defense, for one. Or to prevent suffering of others. (rape kidnapping, etc. Also note the plural.) I, personally, don't approve of the death penalty, as our judicial system is not infallible due to human error (Hung for drug smuggling? WTF?). However, if it were not infallible, if it were perfect, then I would approve. Because a perfect judicial system would give perfect judgement based on every factor, including whether or not the criminal will commit future crimes. Of course, such perfection is impossible. But if the criminal were to kill again, which would you rather have to die, a known killer, or a random person who is most likely innocent of any noteworthy crime?
Has your logic been tested enough yet?
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