| Court Records https://forums.court-records.net/ |
|
| The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16299 |
Page 3 of 5 |
| Author: | Bad Player [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
auuughmymindisscarred... |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
GigaHand wrote: Starbvck wrote: GigaHand wrote: I have to say, I disagree with this. I would expect Cap'n Crunch to be crunchy (except when completely drenched in milk, the way I like any cereal), and I expect Coca Cola to contain mostly cola. Hence, I would expect Froot Loops to cantain froot, er, I mean, fruit. Does this mean I'm not a reasonable consumer? ![]() According to the courts, no. And notice the distinction the court made between "froot" and "fruit". If "froot" is artificial color and flavor, then that's certainly what "Froot Loops" contains. DAMN YOU WHOEVER THAT JUDGE WAS THAT MADE THAT DECISION!! ![]() Just out of curiosity, how do you stand on the shameful lie that is the name "Grape-Nuts"? |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Grape-nuts? (insert perverted joke here) ![]() Don't know what those are, don't wanna.... If they're cereal, then it's obviously just bad news.... |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Starbvck wrote: GigaHand wrote: DAMN YOU WHOEVER THAT JUDGE WAS THAT MADE THAT DECISION!! ![]() Just out of curiosity, how do you stand on the shameful lie that is the name "Grape-Nuts"? DAMN YOU WHOEVER THAT MARKETER WAS THAT MADE THAT DECISION!!
|
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Mock Trial is starting to heat up. I can't talk much about the case, only that it's a wrongful death car accident suit. The question is, who is more at fault? We are in teams of four, each with two upperclassmen and two first years. The competition is going to be held on a Saturday and Sunday. We are each guaranteed two rounds on Saturday, and will be the plaintiffs (prosecution) in one round and the defendants in the second. This means we have to be able to come up with plausible theories and convincing arguments for both sides. We are all given a 65 page packet, containing local court rules and procedures, evidence, and four depositions (sworn statements) from the parties involved and witnesses. Two of those depositions indicate that the defendant is at fault, and the other indicate he isn't. Although the facts are relatively clear, there are quite a few minor, ahem, contradictions. Right now I'm doing some research for one of the issues that we'll raise as the defense and will expect to have to counter as the plaintiff. Any more will be a spoiler. |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Starbvck wrote: Mock Trial is starting to heat up. I can't talk much about the case Why does that sentence sound familiar? ![]() Also, will you be able to talk about it ever? Starbvck wrote: only that it's a wrongful death car accident suit. The question is, who is more at fault? If it was a 2-car collision, I say the only way for the defendant to get off scot-free is if he isn't at fault at all. Starbvck wrote: Although the facts are relatively clear, there are quite a few minor, ahem, contradictions. Could you pwetty pwease elaborate? ![]() Starbvck wrote: Right now I'm doing some research for one of the issues that we'll raise as the defense and will expect to have to counter as the plaintiff. Any more will be a spoiler. Starbvck wrote: Any more will be a spoiler. Starbvck wrote: Any more ...Damn.
|
|
| Author: | L_J [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
ooh, this looks interesting. mock trial! |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
All may be revealed after the 23rd, which is the final day in the competition. Before that, (a), I don't want any other competitors to stumble across anything that may give them an advantage, such as a strategy we'll use to attack witness X, and (b), under privilege and confidentiality rules, this may get you disbarred. In the special rules, we are acting in a "comparative negligence" jurisdiction. This means that juries can't just choose one person completely at fault, even if they think others also contributed or acted wrongly. Instead, the jurors are required to assign percentages of liability to the plaintiff, defendant, and any other third party that the defendant is trying to blame in the defense. |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
So, assuming the defendant foresaw the collision somehow and tried to avoid it, how much "fault" would a jury (comprised of 12 Starbvcks) allocate to the defendant? |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
GigaHand wrote: So, assuming the defendant foresaw the collision somehow and tried to avoid it, how much "fault" would a jury (comprised of 12 Starbvcks) allocate to the defendant? The case we're dealing with is a bit more complicated than an ordinary two-car collision. Just in general, there's a lot more facts and details that would have to be determined before and during the trial. What do you mean he "somehow" foresaw it? How fast was he going? Was he speeding? Five over? Twenty over? Was he drunk? Talking on his cell phone? Texting? Did the other car suddenly dart across his path? Was his view blocked somehow, like by a tree or a billboard? Likewise with "tried to avoid" the collision, did he try to swerve? Slam on the brakes? Sound his horn? Was his only other alternative colliding with a semi-truck? So just in general, "foresaw the collision somehow and tried to avoid it" (we don't even know what kind of collision) can range from completely liable to completely not liable. The devil is in the details. |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
I think I let my curiosity get the better of me. I should avoid inquiring about the mock trial until the 23rd. On a side note, this is my 600th post! Yahoooooooooo!!
|
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
I'll keep this in as general terms as possible. I think I can talk about the mechanics of the process, but nothing concerning the facts. Right now, we're reviewing each of the witness's depositions, trying to find launching points for our attacks during cross-examination, and how to prevent the other side from launching those same attacks. Remember, we play both sides, one during the morning, and the other during the afternoon. We think we're ready for one witness, and are reviewing the other three. The two upperclassmen are doing the strategerizing, and I'm trying to find what's out there concerning the points they're bringing up. We're going to have at least two more sessions, and I have to role-play each witness and give mock testimony, so the partners won't be taken by surprise. One of them said, "Witnesses are completely unpredictable." Probably without revealing too much, the plaintiff witnesses are and and the defense witnesses are and ![]() Also, I have to buy a suit. |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Starbvck wrote: I'll keep this in as general terms as possible. I think I can talk about the mechanics of the process, but nothing concerning the facts. Right now, we're reviewing each of the witness's depositions, trying to find launching points for our attacks during cross-examination, and how to prevent the other side from launching those same attacks. Remember, we play both sides, one during the morning, and the other during the afternoon. We think we're ready for one witness, and are reviewing the other three. The two upperclassmen are doing the strategerizing, and I'm trying to find what's out there concerning the points they're bringing up. We're going to have at least two more sessions, and I have to role-play each witness and give mock testimony, so the partners won't be taken by surprise. One of them said, "Witnesses are completely unpredictable." Probably without revealing too much, the plaintiff witnesses are and and the defense witnesses are and Okay, this sounds intense. The amount of strategizing involved in a single trial is mind-boggling. Starbvck wrote: Also, I have to buy a suit. Why did this make me laugh on the inside? |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Where I work, I never needed to be any more formal than a blazer and tie. But apparently that won't cut it in a courtroom. |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
That reminds me of that time I read the news article about a judge yelling at a lawyer for wearing some regular clothes because he thought it was Casual Friday....
|
|
| Author: | L_J [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Starbvck wrote: Where I work, I never needed to be any more formal than a blazer and tie. But apparently that won't cut it in a courtroom. what's the dress code in the courtroom? |
|
| Author: | Femme Fatale [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
L_J wrote: Starbvck wrote: Where I work, I never needed to be any more formal than a blazer and tie. But apparently that won't cut it in a courtroom. what's the dress code in the courtroom? pink suits and cravats. |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
No no, you've got it wrong. Even a purple leather jacket with some bling and chains is acceptable. Anyway, how many of the AA attorneys are dressed appropriately for a real courtroom? This includes
|
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
GigaHand wrote: No no, you've got it wrong. Even a purple leather jacket with some bling and chains is acceptable. Anyway, how many of the AA attorneys are dressed appropriately for a real courtroom? This includes ![]() I'm gonna guess that Mia, franziska, godot, and klavier are the only ones who AREN'T wearing proper courtroom attire...... Do witnesses have to wear formal clothes too? If so, then a lot of AA witnesses are in violation of that....
|
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
For your first few trials, a blue, dark gray, or black suit is recommended with a white shirt. You can personalize your wardrobe a bit more later, but you want to start out very conservatively. That being said: Completely acceptable. Basic boring blue suit. Should be ok, a judge might want her to button up another button. Should be fine, with the possible exception of that lime green number. Might be tolerated over time, but the getup he wore for his first trial would be right out. I think he just needs something that fits. Within the letter of appropriate attire, but anybody who shows up in a courtroom with gold fringes and a turquoise-studded cravat will be seen as a pretentious jerk. Poofy sleeves don't give her much gravitas, but I don't think she'd be kicked out. Borderline. Most judges will probably want to make him put on a jacket. Probably not, his vest is less formal than Godot's and bright colors are discouraged for rookies. The white shoes are a matter of bad taste, but overall presentable. By far the worst offender. His shirt isn't even tucked in. Will be tossed out of nearly any courtroom in the U.S.
|
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Starbvck wrote: :kyouya: By far the worst offender. His shirt isn't even tucked in. Will be tossed out of nearly any courtroom in the U.S. LOL. ![]() What difference does it make whether you're a rookie or not? Why does that matter for dress code?....
|
|
| Author: | Bad Player [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Why is Young!Edgey's okay, but Manny's okay? They seem pretty similar to me... (is it the pink? xD)
|
|
| Author: | Femme Fatale [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Bad Player wrote: Why is Young!Edgey's not okay, but Manny's okay? They seem pretty similar to me... (is it the pink? xD)It was Bratworth's first trial, Manny's been prosecuting for several decades. Apparently, you can get more flashy as you get older. |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
^ But why? What difference does that make?
|
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
In general, you want to build your reputation on something more substantial than your wardrobe. |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Clearance for the win! |
|
| Author: | GigaHand [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Hold on... I think I know why there's such a strict dress code. If lawyers dress extra-flashy the jury might direct more attention to their case, right? I mean, I'd probably listen more to what someone like Manfred has to say than Apollo or Phoenix.Starbvck wrote: Should be ok, a judge might want her to button up another button.A gay/female judge, maybe. |
|
| Author: | Bad Player [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
But what if the judge is gay and female? The judge will want Mia to button up another button if the judge is gay xor female xD |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Or a married judge whose wife is in the courtroom.
|
|
| Author: | Femme Fatale [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
GigaHand wrote: :think-think-think: Hold on... I think I know why there's such a strict dress code. If lawyers dress extra-flashy the jury might direct more attention to their case, right? I mean, I'd probably listen more to what someone like Manfred has to say than Apollo or Phoenix. I think it would be more as though people would be inclined to think "oh man, that guy has a horrible sense of fashion, obviously his point's invalid especially since he's a rookie." But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Femme Fatale wrote: GigaHand wrote: :think-think-think: Hold on... I think I know why there's such a strict dress code. If lawyers dress extra-flashy the jury might direct more attention to their case, right? I mean, I'd probably listen more to what someone like Manfred has to say than Apollo or Phoenix. I think it would be more as though people would be inclined to think "oh man, that guy has a horrible sense of fashion, obviously his point's invalid especially since he's a rookie." But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. Yeah, that kinda makes sense..... |
|
| Author: | Lunaria42 [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Femme Fatale wrote: But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. But you'd always need to make a first impression on the jury. They tell you to look at the facts of the case, but I bet some people make initial impressions of innocence or guilt based on what the lawyer's look like. |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Lunaria42 wrote: Femme Fatale wrote: But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. But you'd always need to make a first impression on the jury. They tell you to look at the facts of the case, but I bet some people make initial impressions of innocence or guilt based on what the lawyer's look like. I don't think a jury would focus too much on the lawyer's appearance, wouldn't the defendant and witness's look matter more? |
|
| Author: | Bad Player [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Lunaria42 wrote: Femme Fatale wrote: But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. But you'd always need to make a first impression on the jury. They tell you to look at the facts of the case, but I bet some people make initial impressions of innocence or guilt based on what the lawyer's look like. I really doubt that... They might make a judgment on which lawyer they like better and/or they think is more competent. Which could ultimately affect their bias and affect how they vote, but I really doubt they'd make an initial final judgment of innocence or guilt based on the clothes of the lawyer. |
|
| Author: | Lunaria42 [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Yaragorm wrote: Lunaria42 wrote: Femme Fatale wrote: But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. But you'd always need to make a first impression on the jury. They tell you to look at the facts of the case, but I bet some people make initial impressions of innocence or guilt based on what the lawyer's look like. I don't think a jury would focus too much on the lawyer's appearance, wouldn't the defendant and witness's look matter more? Well, their testimonies should matter more becuase that's what you need to listen to. People can't help but look at someone and base an impression off their clothes. Bad Player wrote: I really doubt that... They might make a judgment on which lawyer they like better and/or they think is more competent. Which could ultimately affect their bias and affect how they vote, but I really doubt they'd make an initial final judgment of innocence or guilt based on the clothes of the lawyer. That's why I said initial impressions. I didn't say they would totally ignore the facts of the case and just vote based on which lawyer had the better ensemble. |
|
| Author: | Femme Fatale [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Lunaria42 wrote: Femme Fatale wrote: But once you start building up a reputation for yourself, dressing flashy will not harm your first impression as much. But you'd always need to make a first impression on the jury. They tell you to look at the facts of the case, but I bet some people make initial impressions of innocence or guilt based on what the lawyer's look like. True, I don't think it'd ever be ok to come to court dressed as a clown but consider the following: "oh wow, that guy's dressed like a clown-- and he's a rookie. Wow. What an idiot." "oh wow, that guy's dressed like a clown-- oh but it says here he has a perfect win record. Hm..." Dressing like a clown when you're older wouldn't have as much of an impact. Yaragorm wrote: I don't think a jury would focus too much on the lawyer's appearance, wouldn't the defendant and witness's look matter more? If you're defending someone for some sort of felony, sure the defendant needs to look nice in the jury's eyes since they're already biased against him. However, it's also the attorney's job to argue and to persuade the jury. Even if the lawyer wasn't the one on trial, I'd be more inclined to side with the more sophisticated and classy attorney. Both should look nice, and even if the lawyer isn't really supposed to be focused on, remember, no one's watching the defendant sitting there looking nervous. They're watching the attorneys debate or whatever you'd call what they do. Bad Player wrote: I really doubt that... They might make a judgment on which lawyer they like better and/or they think is more competent. Which could ultimately affect their bias and affect how they vote, but I really doubt they'd make an initial final judgment of innocence or guilt based on the clothes of the lawyer. Well, they wouldn't make an initial final judgement. But that's probably who they'd side with most early on. A first impression can be very important. For example, on a debate with about... let's say... these two character who you've never heard of before. Let's say Mike/Susan and Mike/Joanne. The person defending Mike/Joanne is using a normal font which is easy on the eyes. The person defending Mike/Susan is typing like this. Both use correct grammar and are presenting valid points, but at first you would probably think Mike/Joanne was the more intelligent one-- it may change over time, but at first the Mike/Susan supporter looked ridiculous. It's not being prejudice neccessarily, you just can't help it. |
|
| Author: | Yaragorm [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Lunaria42 wrote: Well, their testimonies should matter more becuase that's what you need to listen to. People can't help but look at someone and base an impression off their clothes. True. Do witnesses need a dress code?
|
|
| Author: | Femme Fatale [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
Yaragorm wrote: Lunaria42 wrote: Well, their testimonies should matter more becuase that's what you need to listen to. People can't help but look at someone and base an impression off their clothes. True. Do witnesses need a dress code? ![]() Well, most would wear a suit (or if they were a female, dress nicely). If you came and testified dressed as Moe your testimony would clearly not be viewed by the jury as very credible. Of course, I can't be trusted. But this is my assumption. |
|
| Author: | Starbvck [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
You'd be surprised. In some jurisdictions, over-dressing or dressing too flashy may be seen as an attempt to hide the lack of substance in your arguments. Juries are fickle. Here is a motion filed in Florida, in which one attorney argued that the opposing attorney was wearing worn-out shoes as "a ruse to impress the jury and make them believe that [he] is humble and simple without sophistication", or the old "I'm just a simple country lawyer" gambit. |
|
| Author: | Coffee Prosecutor [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Legal Education of an Ace Attorney Player |
I seriously wanna get a Lawyer because I wanna help people who has no help AND I gotta admit that I got inspired by PW:AA to get a lawyer Does anyone here think I am A foolish fool who thinks foolishly thaughts becaue of a foolish Game???
|
|
| Page 3 of 5 | All times are UTC |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|