Seriously though: Argentinian Pope. Jesuit Pope. Latin American Pope.

Pope Francis. The first Francis... Like St. Francis de Assisi, patron of the poor and the humble.

Here in Argentina we are absolutely stunned. But trust me, I'm not religious at all, but I know as a fact this is a good, humble man. As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he always refused living in the mansion he was assigned and travelling in the limousine he was assigned. He cooked his own meals, guys. He's not perfect: he's not pro-gay... But he believes priests should be able to marry. He's peaceful, and funny! Guys, the Church might be in for enormous changes. I am certain this is an excellent sign for times to come.

Opinions?

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Huh, yesterday a few of my friends were talking about the possibility of the first black pope. I suppose they just got the ethnicity wrong xP

I don't know much about him, but it's good to hear the new pope is a chill dude

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That's what I need to see in a pope. This might actually turn out well.

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Pretty cool then, did you personally know him or meet him DeMata?

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Sadly no, but I know a ton of people who have. He used to live very close to where I'm living right now, and he is very well known here as being very open: if I had wanted to meet him, I easily could had just walked into his office and chatted with him if he had time.

I'm watching news channels on TV and everyone's talking about how just two weeks ago he was living in a small flat, cooking his own meals and using the bus and subway ("colectivo y subte") to travel around, with no custody or anything.

Just after he was named Pope, he joked about coming "from pretty much the end of the world." Some call Argentina the end of the world because we're amongst the southernmost places on Earth :P

I used to be very very cynical towards organized religion, but this leaves me hopeful.

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I am concerned about some of his social stances, but he seems to be a very nice guy and is pushing for oversight and reformation in the Church government, so I'm hopeful to see where that goes.

(Disclaimer: I'm non-religious.)

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I'm not sure if this is true, (I got this information from the wipe out homophobia page on facebook) but the new pope is already putting down homosexuality saying that homosexuals adopting children is abuse.

*sigh*

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I suppose the question now is, will he continue to be the humble man he was before assuming the title of pope? Well, not just that, but also, will he be able to address the church's current problems? Becoming a leader is child's play compared to the task of being a good leader, and even then, a good leader's plans can be ruined by instability and internal dissent.

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He was basically only voted in because he's a humble chap and they think that somehow that will make the catholic church look good.

Catholicism needs to go a few hundred years without raping little boys and sticking their nose in everything before all non-catholics will deem them to be no longer morally bankrupt.

I'm also non-religious, I think most religions are awful.

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I fully agree with you. I don't want to sound bashful (as these opinions tend to do when it comes to religion), but It's one big PR stunt. Catholicism lost a lot of followers the past few years because of the scandals. The pope is seen as the head of the catholic church so to make an image overhaul a new pope would be a good new beginning. That this one focusses on simplicity is no accident. To counter the current image of rape and corruption this is the logical countermeasure.

It's just one big mess of politics.

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I know how both of you feel because I mostly feel that way, and have for years.

I wrote all this because I know Bergoglio/Francis' life and work (heck, if I had wanted to, I could have personally had a chat with him!) and the Pope is, in some way or another, a leader, even if just symbolically... And I believe people like Bergoglio and Uruguay's president José Mujica (also humble to the core, even as president he still takes the bus) are exactly the kind of leaders this world needs. Real, actual people from working classes and humble families, in touch with society, its needs and demands.

That's the kind of world I wanna live in... Sounds like something out of a John Lennon song, but I believe it can be done. You may say I'm a dreamer, heheh (°u°)

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but what difference does it make whether he took the subway or rode a limo? There are plenty of people taking the subway and none of them are highlighted in the way that Bertoglio is being. IMO it doesn't matter that much, he could make his own meals and ride a bus and still be a jerk behind everyone's back for all we know.

That said, you probably know the Pope way better than I do since I don't care much about religion, but I just find that argument of "humility" to be a little flakey. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.




EDIT: Just a little addendum I'd like to make: I really hate how my fellow brazilians seem to have such pressing need to hate Bertoglio just for being an argentinian Pope. Save the rivalry for the stadiums, damn it.

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Well I think it's specifically a comment because of how much people complain about the expenses of the previous Popes' travel everywhere by private jets and limo's. Think I recall someone complaining about the Carbon Footprint of the Catholic Church before.

T'only thing that bothers me now is that for a humble trusting Pope, some crazy fool might attempt to harm him if he's turning down the Popemobile with the bulletproof case and putting himself more in the public eye. Though I might be paranoid from beating Assassin's Creed II last night.

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You mean like John Paul II? I think it's gonna take a really crazy one to harm the Pope so soon after his consolidation. But it's not an impossibility either.

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Yeah! They should stick with little girls like the rest of us!

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I really do trust Bergoglio, I'm just talking about his humility because it's impossible to explain him to you guys without having to show you thousands of hours of footage of his speeches/interviews/news features, or the equivalent in transcriptions.

That being said, you are confusing true humility with fake humility, most of the time called "false modesty". I'll try to put my thoughts simply:

-People who display false modesty are jackasses who try to show themselves as something they aren't. These people care about how people see them, their "image." These people care about themselves first, and the rest later, if ever. These are egoists. These are "bad people."

-People who display true humility are honest people who actually do show themselves as what they are. These people don't care about how people see them, their "image." These people care about the rest first, and themselves later, if ever. These are altruists. These are "good people."

That is how I see things. My "logic" may be flawed, but these are my honest opinions.

You have your own opinions and views on Bergoglio, like everyone else has, and I am never going to judge your or anyone else's thoughts on him. I will also never force anyone to think like I do: everything I have written in this thread is simply because Bergoglio wasn't very well known outside Argentina, and I wanted everyone to know what I (and most argentinians, I believe) think of him, knowing his life and work throughout the years. All I say is just because as "representant" of Argentina on CR, it's kinda my "duty" to let you guys know of all this.

I personally, honestly believe Bergolgio is on the second group of people I described. The "good people". I have never met him, and like everyone else, I have no idea what really is going on in his mind... And I hope this is not some kind of uncoscious nacionalism and I'm saying all this just because he's a fellow argeninian... But I really do respect and trust Bergoglio as a man, regardless of nationality.

I trust him, you know? If I were religious, I would say I have faith in him. But I don't call it faith, I call it trust. In the end, does it matter how you call it? They're the very same thing, seen from different points of view. You get the point.



I understand, and I completely agree. It's fun having rivaling countries, like is the case for Argentina and Brazil... But just in football. Things start to get very ugly when that kind of rivalities cross the boundary of "just sports."

That being said, I don't trust the brazilian cardinal that sounded like a candidate for papacy, Odilo Scherer. I couldn't care less about his nationality, and I really don't know too much about him, but I know he's a representative of very conservative vaticanistic sectors, and that's exactly the opposite of what the world needs, more conservatives.

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I have some free time, so I've taken the liberty to translate this article that showed up today in the web version of the biggest, most relevant and trustful argentinian newspaper, Clarin.

(Article, in its original Spanish, linked here.)

My notes between [[]]

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You're not the only one. Shame pretty much everyone seems to think electing a Pope is winning the World Cup and will be rooting for his/her nation blindly. If Odilo were elected I'd be even more disconnected from religious stuff than I am right now.

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