Re: Persona
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Also, I have to ask this about Golden... am I really the only person who hates how I can pick whatever skill I want to inherit when fusing Personae? Or even using Skill Cards?
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Yes.
And best team in Golden is Team Harem
Yukiko - best heals, strongest magic
Chie - second-strongest physical attacks, Dragon Hustle, tag-team attack with Yukiko
Naoto - covers everything the other two can't, Shield of Justice
Yosuke is a solid party member overall but there isn't really anything he can do the others can't do better besides Dekaja.
I remember trying Naoto out in Persona 4 on the PS2 and I don't remember her being that great. I remember her having very limited coverage and being a hindrance to boss fights.
That said, I couldn't agree with you more in Golden about the harem being the best team. I'm guessing Naoto had some move changes and SP cost changes from the original though because she was so useful to the point I almost felt that Naoto was broken.
As for Yosuke, I kept him throughout all of Persona 4, but now he's just there for the team until I get Naoto. I'm sure Teddie is good too, but since I've already made so much progress with Yukiko at that point, I see no reason to switch her out.
@Bolt: Glad to hear you're getting into the series. I have yet to play P2 myself, yet I've had it downloaded on my Vita since forever. I definitely need to get to it one day. Would you say that the dated mechanics hurt the game?
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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dullahan1 wrote:
@Bolt: Glad to hear you're getting into the series. I have yet to play P2 myself, yet I've had it downloaded on my Vita since forever. I definitely need to get to it one day. Would you say that the dated mechanics hurt the game?
At the moment, yes, unfortunately. I realize part of this is just that I've drifted away from JRPGs in general, so maybe it won't bother everyone as much as it does me, but my most recent play session really solidified these issues for me. I think what's most frustrating is that if they were just a little better - a slightly lower encounter rate, fewer extraneous dungeons - the game would hit a good balance for me.
Like I said, it's still a good game, and as with all JRPGs I'm certain I'll get into it more the further I go. And I'm enjoying the cast much more than I was expecting - Lisa and Eikichi can get a little typical-JRPG-comic-relief at times, but they're usually good, and Maya and Yukino (especially Maya) are great. The game also gets points for kicking off the plot quickly.
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Anyway in my eyes how interesting a party member is should override how useful they are when it comes to party selection. A game should be completeable with any party really, sure there'll be more optimal compositions but with enough training anyone can fill the gap. I dropped Chie and rolled with Yosuke, Kanji and Yukiko, in hindsight I'd probably have dropped all the original team and rolled with Kanji, Teddy and Naoto.
You might suffer a little more for your preferred team but at least you fight with characters you like though I'll admit Kanji is somewhat handicapped in Persona 4 because the game places such a massive emphasis on magical combat.
That's one thing I prefer from Persona 3 over 4, physical 'elements', because they were taken out Persona 4 became a game all about the magic.Also Dullahan I hear Naoto got a buff in the Golden to make her more viable.
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And I thought the random encounter rate in Tales of Phantasia on the Super Nintendo was bad...!
But then I stopped IS because those students who were supposed to have moved from the teacher's lounge didn't, although I destroyed all school emblems. Maybe I shouldn't have started the Hanako sidequest...?
Then again, I have gotten my hands on a No Encounter cheat for IS, so I might use that~
For P4, I love using Yukiko due to her Mediarahan and Salvation, although the latter is generally not necessary. But downside, she never loses her Weakness to Ice. Which is dumb, especially if I was insane enough to actually grind her to Level 99. Oh yeah, a Level 99 Yukiko, she can do anything with her ma-Oh no, somebody Bufu'd her and she's down!
Then again, Teddie's the same with Thunder. I'm tempted to do a run with Yosuke, Chie and maybe Naoto, so I don't have any Weaknesses in my party. Yukiko was kind of a mix of healer + dead weight when I fought the Reaper multiple times for the items...
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Naoto easily got the biggest boost in Golden; access to every -dyne spell along with light and darkness magic, and Mind Charge. With the right equips, she can outdamage Teddie in ice magic despite not having Amps.
Teddie isn't a terrible party member, but he's awful compared to Yukiko. Lower magic stat, less SP, no Salvation, uhh, he has that party-wide defense buff, though? Oh, and the worst ultimate skill hands-down. yes let's waste a skill slot on a move that does random crap
Yukiko was already amazing in P4 but Atlus decided to give her
Chie got Power Charge and Dragon Hustle, the former really helping to justify using her over Kanji late-game
Yosuke got Youthful Wind aaaaaaaaaaand that's about it
And Kanji didn't really get any upgrades of note in Golden. His ultimate sucks.
Really though, Golden is easy enough that you can play through with pretty much whoever you want, especially if you spend a lot of time with Rise; at max rank she's pretty much Mission Control Goddess, throwing heals and party buffs at you left and right, blocking party-wide attacks, even giving MC a free revive.
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Quote:
Teddie isn't a terrible party member
I don't use Teddie cause he annoys me. I KNOW Yamaguchi Kappei can do a pleasant, youthful voice. He voiced Hibiya from TokiMemo Girl's Side and that voice was okay. Yeah it was a bit bubbly and all, but it was still tolerable to listen to. But for Teddie, I think the voice director just said, "Make the most annoying, high pitched voice you can do."
Spoiler: Teddie
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Re: Persona
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Teddie isn't a terrible party member
I don't use Teddie cause he annoys me. I KNOW Yamaguchi Kappei can do a pleasant, youthful voice. He voiced Hibiya from TokiMemo Girl's Side and that voice was okay. Yeah it was a bit bubbly and all, but it was still tolerable to listen to. But for Teddie, I think the voice director just said, "Make the most annoying, high pitched voice you can do."
Spoiler: Teddie
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Despite his annoyances, I ended up using him on my 100% completion playthrough just because he knew Marakukaja. But what I also found was that a party of Yu with a null-ice persona, Chie, Teddie and someone else makes killing the Reaper a whole lot easier. Half the time, it kept using ice break and never once bothered to use Mabufudyne. Maybe they were trained by Mitsuru.
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Re: Persona
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@Pierre: I figured as much. Naoto was pretty useless outside of insta-killing mobs that weren't resistant to mudo and hama. Yeah, she had Almighty attacks, but they were way to expensive to justify using.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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Spoiler: Not really spoilers, but just in case...
Re: Persona
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Thane wrote:
So is anyone else here playing Persona Q? I haven't played that much due to me not understanding around 85% of the dialogue and vital instructions and hints, but I just completed the second labyrinth today, and towards the end, there was a hilarious scene.
Spoiler: Not really spoilers, but just in case...
MARIN KARIN!
That's why not.
Also is Persona Q out in English countries yet then?
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Re: Persona
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Pierre wrote:
Thane wrote:
So is anyone else here playing Persona Q? I haven't played that much due to me not understanding around 85% of the dialogue and vital instructions and hints, but I just completed the second labyrinth today, and towards the end, there was a hilarious scene.
Spoiler: Not really spoilers, but just in case...
MARIN KARIN!
That's why not.
Also is Persona Q out in English countries yet then?
No, I'm pretty sure he's running through on the Japanese version.
For America they're saying a Fall release, not sure if it's the same for you guys in Europe.
Well? Are we going or what?
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And holy mother of difficulty spikes, Batman! All of a sudden these super fast guys show up, cast something that makes me vulnerable to wind and then spam wind attacks show up! My entire party is down in two turns if I don't get lucky with stuns.
Edit: well, I just found a list but it's only got like 6 skills up. However, it sure makes it look like they're trying to force you to use the new characters. They learn a skill that makes you regenerate SP with every step you take - and let me tell you, if I had known that, I'd have used them. Sigh...my team has no coverage.
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Thane wrote:
Aye, I'm currently playing through the Japanese version. Sadly, since this is also the first Persona game I actually play, it makes it much harder for me to understand what some moves/spells actually do, and I haven't found any sort of handy list online.
And holy mother of difficulty spikes, Batman! All of a sudden these super fast guys show up, cast something that makes me vulnerable to wind and then spam wind attacks show up! My entire party is down in two turns if I don't get lucky with stuns.
Edit: well, I just found a list but it's only got like 6 skills up. However, it sure makes it look like they're trying to force you to use the new characters. They learn a skill that makes you regenerate SP with every step you take - and let me tell you, if I had known that, I'd have used them. Sigh...my team has no coverage.
And holy mother of difficulty spikes, Batman! All of a sudden these super fast guys show up, cast something that makes me vulnerable to wind and then spam wind attacks show up! My entire party is down in two turns if I don't get lucky with stuns.
Edit: well, I just found a list but it's only got like 6 skills up. However, it sure makes it look like they're trying to force you to use the new characters. They learn a skill that makes you regenerate SP with every step you take - and let me tell you, if I had known that, I'd have used them. Sigh...my team has no coverage.
Geez jumping into the series on the complete fanservice crossover game? Interesting decision wouldn't think it would appeal that much to people who haven't played the others.
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Re: Persona
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Pierre wrote:
Thane wrote:
Aye, I'm currently playing through the Japanese version. Sadly, since this is also the first Persona game I actually play, it makes it much harder for me to understand what some moves/spells actually do, and I haven't found any sort of handy list online.
And holy mother of difficulty spikes, Batman! All of a sudden these super fast guys show up, cast something that makes me vulnerable to wind and then spam wind attacks show up! My entire party is down in two turns if I don't get lucky with stuns.
Edit: well, I just found a list but it's only got like 6 skills up. However, it sure makes it look like they're trying to force you to use the new characters. They learn a skill that makes you regenerate SP with every step you take - and let me tell you, if I had known that, I'd have used them. Sigh...my team has no coverage.
And holy mother of difficulty spikes, Batman! All of a sudden these super fast guys show up, cast something that makes me vulnerable to wind and then spam wind attacks show up! My entire party is down in two turns if I don't get lucky with stuns.
Edit: well, I just found a list but it's only got like 6 skills up. However, it sure makes it look like they're trying to force you to use the new characters. They learn a skill that makes you regenerate SP with every step you take - and let me tell you, if I had known that, I'd have used them. Sigh...my team has no coverage.
Geez jumping into the series on the complete fanservice crossover game? Interesting decision wouldn't think it would appeal that much to people who haven't played the others.
Well I've watched a walkthrough of Persona 2 to Persona 4 Golden. And while I wasn't terribly impressed by the second game and disliked the third mainly due to the stale writing and boring characters, I loved Persona 4. Sadly, I skipped a lot of fight scenes, and due to that I can't remember the name of spells, which would've helped tremendously. Oh well, I've been doing an okay job so far.
Oh, and the Persona 3 cast is far more tolerable here, at least from what I understand of the conversations.
And this is for Catmuto who talked about this earlier:
Spoiler: VERY minor spoilers.
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I feel the same
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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Thane wrote:
And this is for Catmuto who talked about this earlier:
Spoiler: VERY minor spoilers.
Shut up, Hanamura! Did you ever even LOOK at what you said in P4? You TOTALLY have a closet boner for Narukami.
So shut up and take it as the woman you are.
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Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
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CatMuto wrote:
She's cuter in the Japanese version.
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Very true.
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CatMuto wrote:
She's cuter in the Japanese version.
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Well duh it's because it's JP VA
I hate that it doesn't have dual audio like Danganronpa and VLR does.
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CatMuto wrote:
Yeah Persona 4 Golden sucks =P
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Did original Persona 4 have dual audio?
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SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
Finally defeated Yukiko's shadow which was easy but the prince summon was so annoying. Even with Chie's Mabufu he wouldn't get knocked down like the faq said which pissed me off. Luckly my persona and Chie's knew Bafu.
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Probably because you were looking at a strategy for Persona 4 on the PS2. They changed the weaknesses and such for the first two bosses and their cohorts in Golden. The prince had an ice weakness in the original, which I believe was transferred to Yukiko in Golden. Shadow Yukiko was much harder in the original because she had no weakness and wouldn't telegraph her attacks like she does in Golden. They nerfed her because there were a lot of complaints, which was stupid.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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dullahan1 wrote:
SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
Finally defeated Yukiko's shadow which was easy but the prince summon was so annoying. Even with Chie's Mabufu he wouldn't get knocked down like the faq said which pissed me off. Luckly my persona and Chie's knew Bafu.
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Probably because you were looking at a strategy for Persona 4 on the PS2. They changed the weaknesses and such for the first two bosses and their cohorts in Golden. The prince had an ice weakness in the original, which I believe was transferred to Yukiko in Golden. Shadow Yukiko was much harder in the original because she had no weakness and wouldn't telegraph her attacks like she does in Golden. They nerfed her because there were a lot of complaints, which was stupid.
Ah yeah your right, I didn't notice it was for Persona 4.
I actually don't mind that she was weakened a bit since it makes it easier for me. I mean yeah it is nice to have a challenge when facing a boss but when the boss is broken and hard as hell then it's understandable for the complaints. For hardcore Persona 4 fans I can see why it would upset them that she was weakened.
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SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Yeah Persona 4 Golden sucks =P
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Did original Persona 4 have dual audio?
No, I played an Undubbed ISO.
Just saying, I see no reason why P4 Golden shouldn't have had Dual Audio at its release, considering how popular that overall feature has been for years, how it's been demanded and FINALLY appears more often now.Quote:
They nerfed her because there were a lot of complaints, which was stupid.
Pffff, yeah, how dare Atlus make a difficult game, right?
Quote:
I actually don't mind that she was weakened a bit since it makes it easier for me. I mean yeah it is nice to have a challenge when facing a boss but when the boss is broken and hard as hell then it's understandable for the complaints.
Uh... trust me. She wasn't difficult. Even in P4, she was not difficult as long as you knew the battle system. Which you do, or at least should, by the time you reach the first "proper" boss of the game. She wasn't broken or hard as hell. People who complain that Persona 4 Shadow Yukiko is difficult are the chumps who either can't figure out how the battle system works (easy enough as it is) or approached her way underleveled and with terrible Personae.
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PS: I think in Golden, the Prince Charming she summons had his weakness changed to Zio.
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SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
dullahan1 wrote:
SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
Finally defeated Yukiko's shadow which was easy but the prince summon was so annoying. Even with Chie's Mabufu he wouldn't get knocked down like the faq said which pissed me off. Luckly my persona and Chie's knew Bafu.
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Ugh I just remembered how annoying that girl is singing that stupid Junes song >.<
Probably because you were looking at a strategy for Persona 4 on the PS2. They changed the weaknesses and such for the first two bosses and their cohorts in Golden. The prince had an ice weakness in the original, which I believe was transferred to Yukiko in Golden. Shadow Yukiko was much harder in the original because she had no weakness and wouldn't telegraph her attacks like she does in Golden. They nerfed her because there were a lot of complaints, which was stupid.
Ah yeah your right, I didn't notice it was for Persona 4.
I actually don't mind that she was weakened a bit since it makes it easier for me. I mean yeah it is nice to have a challenge when facing a boss but when the boss is broken and hard as hell then it's understandable for the complaints. For hardcore Persona 4 fans I can see why it would upset them that she was weakened.
See, I didn't find her too hard in Persona 4 to be honest. Shadow Yukiko had many things going for her, but I think a huge thing was that Chie was a huge liability in the original. Since Yukiko never telegraphed her attacks and the Prince was annoying as anything else, Chie was never protected when Yukiko would lay her big moves out of nowhere, granting her another attack and crippling your party and most likely killing Chie. The strategy I found in the original that really worked was to get a Slime persona, level it up to learn Red Wall, cast that on Chie, and you won't have to worry about her fire weakness for 3 turns. Made the battle a lot easier to manage and it gave it more strategy.
They kinda nerfed the next boss as well in Golden... well, more his minions than him, by giving them weaknesses too, because, again, deemed to hard in the original. Again though, it wasn't. I accidentally found a way to abuse the enemy AI to my advantage and took them all down easily enough. Oh well though, guess you got to mainstream the game to the Vita audience or something I guess.
The rest of the game is pretty much the same after that, with some added challenges and stuff thrown in, but I don't care too much at how they nerfed the beginning of the game. It kinda made a point of "be ready at all times because you could game over at any moment." Heck, the few times I got game over was from random mobs and their instant death attacks hitting me.
Speaking of, instant death attacks are amazing in this game. Persona is one of the few franchises where it works like how it's supposed to.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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See also: Kid Icarus (original, not Uprising)
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Re: Persona
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CatMuto wrote:
What do you MEAN Shadow Yukiko telegraphed her attacks?
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In Golden, Shadow Yukiko would attack in a pattern and the game would announce before she did her big damaging move. In the PS2 version, her moves were randomly selected so you weren't prepared. When attacks are "telegraphed", it pretty much means they're announcing what attack is coming next.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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dullahan1 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
What do you MEAN Shadow Yukiko telegraphed her attacks?
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In Golden, Shadow Yukiko would attack in a pattern and the game would announce before she did her big damaging move. In the PS2 version, her moves were randomly selected so you weren't prepared. When attacks are "telegraphed", it pretty much means they're announcing what attack is coming next.
Okay, I have to ask. Who ACTUALLY had that many problems with Shadow Yukiko and the next boss that they needed to be nerfed? Okay, I had trouble with the next boss, I was a bit underleveled and still hadn't gotten the whole grasp of Fusing and all, but I still did it. Had Yukiko be my main attacker of one of the minions, Narukami took over as a healer and Chie boosted Yukiko's attacks. Took me about 20 minutes to defeat them, but I still managed it. I wouldn't have asked for a nerf.
I mean, it's a videogame. It's a boss. It's SUPPOSED to be a challenge.
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It's like Dullahan says, if she cripples Chie she gets an extra attack and then wrecks the party.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
SY was a little tough, but the following boss made me give up on Vanilla at least twice before finally beating it about half a year before Golden released.
What is the next boss since I beat SY yesterday and whats a good strategy to defeat it?
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SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
SY was a little tough, but the following boss made me give up on Vanilla at least twice before finally beating it about half a year before Golden released.
What is the next boss since I beat SY yesterday and whats a good strategy to defeat it?
Next boss is a spoiler. Although it gets obvious as you proceed in the game.
As for the next boss... I personally just made sure Chie had Power... uh... I forget what it's called. Power Charge! Yeah. I used that on Yukiko and had her use her best fire spell on one of the minions. Cause in the next boss fight, you do want to take out the minions first. You want Yosuke's Dekaja used a lot to remove buffs. Narukami as a back-up healer if Yukiko is busy attacking. I think one of the minions has been given a nerfed Weakness to Fire...
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CatMuto wrote:
SHSL Ultimate Hope wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
SY was a little tough, but the following boss made me give up on Vanilla at least twice before finally beating it about half a year before Golden released.
What is the next boss since I beat SY yesterday and whats a good strategy to defeat it?
Next boss is a spoiler. Although it gets obvious as you proceed in the game.
As for the next boss... I personally just made sure Chie had Power... uh... I forget what it's called. Power Charge! Yeah. I used that on Yukiko and had her use her best fire spell on one of the minions. Cause in the next boss fight, you do want to take out the minions first. You want Yosuke's Dekaja used a lot to remove buffs. Narukami as a back-up healer if Yukiko is busy attacking. I think one of the minions has been given a nerfed Weakness to Fire...
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Power Charge doubles the next physical damage doesn't it? Don't you mean Mind Charge?
Also don't the "Charge" moves only affect the user?
Perhaps you mean Tarukaja which is a general attack (both physical and magical) up buff.
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As for the second boss, I'm unsure how effective the strategy is considering FP usage, but it helped me abuse the AI real quick. Dekaja was key in winning for me. Basically, it cancels out a boss's buffs. I believe Yosuke has it, though the MC can have access to it as well with the right Personas. Basically, the boss has two minions. One minion will buff up the boss so it can deal huge damage. The minion that buffs also deals a decent amount of damage whereas the other one, not so much to my recollection.
However, if you Dekaja every time a buff is placed on the boss (which is pretty much every turn), then one of the minions will be wasting each turn buffing the boss and since Dekaja gets rid of the boss's buffs, it's not too bad. I think he can still do Power Charge or something, but considering he's not getting an extra attack boost with it from the buffs, it's much easier to recover from.
I found it by accident since the minion that buffs won't do anything else until the buffs are established, so taking them off each turn puts him in a loop of constantly buffing the boss. It's fun when you accidentally exploit an AI's programming.
In Golden though, I believe the two mooks each have weaknesses, so the Dekaja strategy may not be as effective since you can just down the mooks with effective attacks instead, but I always keep Dekaja handy as well as a defense weakening ability for bosses because those are very effective when you want to stay alive and deal tons of damage.
As for having Yukiko deal damage, don't waste Power Charge on her since she doesn't physically attack. That's better suited to Chie and the MC if he has a physical damaging Persona. However, if Yukiko is mind-charged, holy cow is she amazing. Seriously, with her having the highest magic stat in the game, when she isn't healing, she is an amazing attacker.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
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