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Re: The Tales Of seriesTopic%20Title
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Oh, Sole is Italian for sun, and also pronounced similar to Soleil in French. I have Italian heritage, and I'm immersed in the French language, so that's why I made that blanket statement without being specific. :gymshoe: My bad... But yeah, sol would be Spanish and ...Latin too I think?

So that's a common way to spell Lailah? That's good, :larry2: I personally never seen it like that so it looked weird to me.
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Re: The Tales Of seriesTopic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Btw sumguy, tell us which person you get in Flanoir. I wanna see what potential partner a player gets who doesn't know how the relationship system works/doesn't know of all instances.

I'm assuming you're referring to the scene before the third visit to the Tower of Salvation. Colette showed up and I got a rabbit. What else could have potentially happened?

But speaking of the third visit to the Tower of Salvation, let me just take this moment to say WHAT THE HELL?
Spoiler:
Maybe the idea of "your comrades sacrificing themselves for you one by one in rapid succession, then suddenly appearing to show you that sacrifices are unnecessary" seemed like a good idea on paper, but in execution, it just falls flat. In each scene, all the party members except Lloyd and the sacrifice of the scene disappear as to supposedly not ruin the emotional impact. This way, only the relations between Lloyd and the party members are counted. What about the relations between the individual party members? Am I supposed to believe that Genis just stood their as his sister potentially sacrificed herself, followed by his crush doing the same?
And how did Zelos get them out of the traps? He just casually took on a horde of angels, fought off the remnant of a giant evil tree, and broke Raine's possibly several hundred feet fall?
Then we get to Yggdrasil killing Pronyma, because she called him Lord Yggdrasil. Why? What was the point? To show that he had gone off the deep end? Then why did he take the bullet for Genis in the second visit to the Tower of Salvation? Was it something to do with Pronyma herself? If so, I couldn't tell you because I have no idea what her character is outside of half-elf who serves Yggdrasil.
But the biggest problem is that the last save point is cutoff from any monsters or shops, meaning if I were to go there underleveled, I could potentially have trapped myself there, making the past 30+ hours pointless. Granted, I don't think lvl 61 is underleveled, but that still means I have to go through those cutscenes AND Pronyma just to have another shot at Yggdrasil, while failure means do all that again with little to no variation. Though I will give them credit that I can at least access the menu before each fight.
tl;dr Tales of Symphonia dethrones Final Fantasy IV for number of pointless fake sacrifices and throws in a sequential boss fight. My reaction.

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The only game I played from the series is Radiant Memories.
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Quote:
Colette showed up and I got a rabbit. What else could have potentially happened?


...the game has a relationship value system in it. You know those scenes where you could answer with certain options? Those all influence the relationship value with certain characters - like in the beginning, staying in the school will increase Refill's points for Lloyd while it decreases Genius' points.
There are also Overworld skits, the white glowy rings on the world map that give you conversations between Lloyd and a character, with an answer that increases or decreases their points.

You could have a Flanoir scene with any of the other 8 party members, including Kratos. Kratos, Zelos and Collet give you items during those scenes (so if you want a 100% complete Item Book, you need to play the game 3 times with the item book completion taken over). And having a scene with most of them unlocks a scene for an outfit for them.
For Collet's, head to Dirk's house but I forget the time frame...

Also, you don't need to go outside with the first person who enters. They come in the order of Highest Points, 2nd Highest Points and 3rd Highest Points. If you refuse the first two, you are automatically forced to go outside with the third person that enters.

Yeah the whole sacrificing thing was meh since it wasn't sort of revealed to be planned by them except in a skit... And, honestly, the only ones that seem to be in ACTUAL danger during those scenes are Shihna (since we actually see her fall) and maybe Refill.

I think Pronema called him "Mithos" which he forbids everyone to do except his closest friends - you know, it being a kind of "honor" to call him that. As for that Genius thing, it's supposed to indicate that he cared for him and to set up the Betrayal scene. (You think pointless sacrifices are dumb, this game has betrayals left, right and center) And, if you go out with Genius in Flanoir, there is indication that Genius feels torn between both sides, since he cannot help but agree with the tormented half-elf and his huge plan.

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The only game I played from the series is Radiant Memories.


Radiant Memories? Never heard of it... you mean Mythology?

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Yea Mythology. But only the 1st one since 2nd and 3rd are in Japanese and I cannot read Japanese T_T
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Re: The Tales Of seriesTopic%20Title
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Whew, finally completed Tales of Symphonia after 37 hours, 22 minutes and 58 seconds.
I'll say this: if I had played this game back when it first came out in 2003, I probably would have loved it. Having only played it twelve years later, the game is showing its age, like moving in only two dimensions when you're in a three-dimensional environment. It works fine, but then you see your other party members capable of moving in three dimensions and think "what am I doing wrong?"
I mostly found the characters... okay. Not Jade Curtiss level of amazing, not terrible, just okay. I like Sheena, and I'll give Zelos the credit of not being obnoxious during serious moments. The rest are... okay.
Spoiler:
I think Colette could have spent more time as an emotionless angel. No, not because it shut her up, but because Lloyd's concern for her during that time brought out the most genuine emotion in the game. Instead, it's resolved in two hours, then Colette gets kidnapped, then we spend most of Disc 2 on searching for a way to cure Colette's crystallization, then Zelos hands her over to Yggdrasil, AND THEN she gets possessed by Yggdrasil.
Also, why did the people of Mizuho make Sheena try to control Volt when she was seven years old? Did they really think that would end well?

All in all, it's a good game, though I still think Abyss is the better game, or at least the one that aged better.
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Spoiler: Symphonia
Because the people of Mizuho are idiots.

And Collet was never possessed by Ygdrasill. She was possessed by Martel.


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CatMuto wrote:
Spoiler: Symphonia
And Collet was never possessed by Ygdrasill. She was possessed by Martel.

Spoiler:
I was referring to the part after making the pact with Origin, when Yggdrasil tries to take over Lloyd, but then takes over Colette.

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sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Spoiler: Symphonia
And Collet was never possessed by Ygdrasill. She was possessed by Martel.

Spoiler:
I was referring to the part after making the pact with Origin, when Yggdrasil tries to take over Lloyd, but then takes over Colette.


Oh yeah. I don't "count" that part since that part doesn't just happen to Collet. It happens to whoever Lloyd spent Flanoir with (except Kratos, in which case it's Collet again... one annoyance for me for going the Kratos route)

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Seventeen hours into Tales of Graces f, just after the two dragons.
Before I played this game, I noticed that people either thought the gameplay was either the best in the series, or the worst in the series, with few in between. At this point, I like it. I actually have to be constantly aware of both myself and the opponent. My only one complaint is that I spent an hour trying to win the unwinnable duel and got absolutely nothing for it, not even a PSN trophy.

The story on the other hand... eh, it's kinda... sort of... how do I put this...
As of right now, I couldn't even tell you what this story is about. There's some political struggles, and some things about childhood relationships not withstanding the harshness of life, the party had to search for a butt, we still haven't brought up everyone's sudden mastery of magic since,
Spoiler:
and I'm guessing Richard is most likely possessed by some ancient demon.
I'm beginning to wonder if there even is an overarching story to this.
The characters? Well, Sophie is adorable, but amnesiac girl who probably isn't even an amnesiac isn't all that new. Pascal has no reason to still be here, unless she's the obligatory traitor. I have nothing against Malik, but his outfit keeps reminding me of Snow and it's pissing me off. The rest, I have nothing much to say.
Also, what the hell is Tiger Festival? Is that a developer in-joke, or something that was lost in translation, the game just painting an eleven-year-old as an idiot, or what?

I will say that this game has my favorite victory quote.
"Right into next week!" "I've traveled back in time from next week. Please stop throwing monsters at us."
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sumguy28 wrote:
-snip-

I have absolutely no idea where you are in the game from your description xD

There's a plot, don't worry. The beginning mostly is just 'stuff happening,' but the plot comes up eventually. Plus for the most part, Asbel is just a regular kid trying to find his place in the world--it's not like Xillia or Symphonia where the party has a set, predetermined goal from the very start.

I really did like the plot and characters in Graces, but that could just be because I played it right after Xillia...

Who are you playing as? Asbel?

And yes, the post-battle victory quotes are kind of amazing.
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sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler:
and I'm guessing Richard is most likely possessed by some ancient demon.


And NOBODY in the party will consider that possibility for a good 20 hours before someone finally brings it up. :ron:

Quote:
I'm beginning to wonder if there even is an overarching story to this.


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Quote:
Also, what the hell is Tiger Festival? Is that a developer in-joke, or something that was lost in translation, the game just painting an eleven-year-old as an idiot, or what?


Tiger Festival? :eh?: Doesn't ring a bell. It might be a reference, though.

Quote:
Pascal has no reason to still be here, unless she's the obligatory traitor.


Pascal is CHIPPER and POSITIVE and YAAAAAAAY! :will:
At least, according to most people and they seem to like her. (I don't mind her)

I personally cannot say I like or dislike the gameplay. I keep reading how people think the battle system in Graces is the best one that Tales Of has created to date, but I don't think it is. I dunno, something about the way I move my character seems stiff and all... maybe I just prefer the absolute free run that Abyss had.

You say you beat 2 dragons? ...the Statue dragons or early plot ones? Cause I only remember the statue ones and those are very late and optional.

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CatMuto wrote:
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Well that's reassuring.
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Tiger Festival? :eh?: Doesn't ring a bell. It might be a reference, though.

At the beginning of the game, when Asbel decides what to name Sophie, and then Richard's pseudonym.
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You say you beat 2 dragons? ...the Statue dragons or early plot ones? Cause I only remember the statue ones and those are very late and optional.

The ones next to Duplemar which Richard somehow has. Actually, I think they might have been wyverns.
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...okay so not the optional ones. Yeah still no idea where you are, but then... considering your spoiler theory, I know you are past Wallbridge... uuuurgh, Wallbridge... hated that place. Then again, Graces has multiple dungeons that I detest. Especially... I forget what it's called... it's a late one, Barthandelus... Barty... some kind of Chapel? Hated the puzzles there. That and Wallbridge were terrible places to go through. Though it's no wonder I don't recall where you are in the plot - the plot is so generic and nothing big goes on, I just follow along wherever I'm told to go and don't bother to understand their motives. They have no big motives except "Get to Richard OUR FRIEND!!"

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I thought the motives were pretty clear by that point? (I mean, it's not like it's Tales of Xillia.)
Spoiler:
Richard was draining the big crystal things of all the mana, which the world needs to survive. They gotta stop him, since no mana = no life. I'm pretty sure the double-dragon fight happens at the second one, which means their next goal was to locate and go to the final big crystal thing, since they figure that's where Richard is heading next.

(Just replace "mana" and "big crystal thing" with the actual in-game terms I've already forgotten.)

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Spoiler: contains excessive swearing
FUCK YOU BRYCE! Fuck you and your fucking claws with their oversized range and fucking non-flinching rush attack. I shouldn't have to waste THREE hours, not including grinding, consisting of repeatedly dying. :tigre:

Either that, or lvl 38 was not high enough.

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sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler: contains excessive swearing
FUCK YOU BRYCE! Fuck you and your fucking claws with their oversized range and fucking non-flinching rush attack. I shouldn't have to waste THREE hours, not including grinding, consisting of repeatedly dying. :tigre:

Either that, or lvl 38 was not high enough.


...Oh the second time you fight this boss? Can't remember what level I was...

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Yeah, I didn't find that fight too hard, but I also can't remember what level we were...
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I think you'll hate... what's his face... more... Klaus? Some dude with K and it has to do with Marik's background. Hate him cause of his two gun-spears or whatever that have huge range.

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CatMuto wrote:
I think you'll hate... what's his face... more... Klaus? Some dude with K and it has to do with Marik's background. Hate him cause of his two gun-spears or whatever that have huge range.

C-A

I honestly think he's the hardest battle in the entire game.

The big problem I had is that... well, I have literally no idea how the aiming of his Mystic Arte works. He needs to physically hit a character to activate his Mystic Arte, but (for some reason) the character he hits with his basic combo isn't usually the character that gets hit by the Mystic Arte. So no matter how good I was at dodging him during the Eleth Break, he could still kill me with his Mystic Arte by hitting one of the CPUs (who would invariably get hit).
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Bad Player wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
I think you'll hate... what's his face... more... Klaus? Some dude with K and it has to do with Marik's background. Hate him cause of his two gun-spears or whatever that have huge range.

C-A

I honestly think he's the hardest battle in the entire game.

The big problem I had is that... well, I have literally no idea how the aiming of his Mystic Arte works. He needs to physically hit a character to activate his Mystic Arte, but (for some reason) the character he hits with his basic combo isn't usually the character that gets hit by the Mystic Arte. So no matter how good I was at dodging him during the Eleth Break, he could still kill me with his Mystic Arte by hitting one of the CPUs (who would invariably get hit).

Kurt? Yeah, he had a huge range, but his attacks were more clearly telegraphed, so I found it easier to dodge. Really, the biggest annoyance during that fight were the constantly respawning soldiers. And I only had to use 3 life bottles instead of 15.
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Quote:
Especially... I forget what it's called... it's a late one, Barthandelus... Barty... some kind of Chapel? Hated the puzzles there.

Bathus Citadel. If it was Barthandelus, I would have rage quit. The puzzles there were the only decent puzzles up to that point. They actually required thinking.


Spoiler: I need to nerd for a bit
No Pascal, you're not using "centrifugal force to increase the shuttle's natural thrust." Centrifugal force is not an actual force. It is the sum of the forces acting on a rotating body, including but not limited to friction and gravity. And the "shuttle's natural thrust" wouldn't be increased by aiming at the aquasphere via an angle; the resultant force vector would simply have a greater magnitude; the actual thrust of the shuttle wouldn't change. Of course, this is assuming than an aquasphere is even possible to begin with.

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Triple posting, yay!
57:58 to the end of Tales of Graces, 83:31 at the end of Lineages and Legacies, ended with a total of 98:43 to do everything else I wanted to do (not including the Gentleman).

Before I give my thoughts on the actual game itself, I must say that I got ripped off. I paid 32 US dollars dollars for this game. Three weeks later, I find that a compilation of this game and Symphonia Chronicles is selling for 20 Euros. I could shed a Tear. I might as well go find the Guy who’s responsible for this and crash a Van into him. I won’t even bother to Chat with him. Then I’ll set him ablaze and bury his Asches, but not before I take his breath Mints. This plan is Genis.
Also want to note that I started this game playing coop, but due to frequent controller malfunctions, that had to be scrapped; and that I played through this game on the "moderate" difficulty setting.

I will admit, this game didn’t have the deep and thought-provoking plot that Symphonia or Abyss had, but at the same time I felt the game didn't need it. The narrative’s intention was to give a simple story while exploring various forms of human bonds, and it succeeded at that. Of course, the narrative could have stuck with the political intrigue and I would have been fine with that.
The gameplay is, as of right now, my favorite of the ARPGs I’ve played. Everything just seems to flow so naturally, especially necessary with the legitimate difficulty in this game (except for two bosses). I would say I miss free-run before it got nerfed in this game, but the enemy placement made that wholly unnecessary. This is also the one Tales game where I enjoyed playing as every party member, as opposed to every party member except for two. I'd also praise the sidequest catalog, a retry button for main bosses, and being able to pause and skip cutscenes, but I'd also have to ask what took them so long.
Still don’t like Pascal. I admit, my initial dislike of her was due to how the game introduced her (as an pedophelic stalker). Having gone through to the end, all I can say about her is “person with convenient plot knowledge and random comic relief.” It’s not necessarily that she’s unfunny (which she is), but I never got the impression that she was aware of herself. That’s partly what made Jade so hilarious; he knew who he was, he knew what he was doing, and he knew the effect it would have on others.
Spoiler: And now, I address the villain. *inhale*
On the superficial level, Lambda is ham. He is hammy, and everyone he associates with turns into a ham. I like ham. Ham is tasty. I will admit that Lambda’s past was a bit sudden, but there were a few things that I thought helped alleviate this:
-Emeraude’s betrayal threw most of what we knew about Lambda into suspect.
-Lambda’s backstory sets him up as a dramatic foil to Sophie.
-He is named Lambda. Even for a being of pure energy with no weaknesses, naming someone after a letter in the Greek alphabet is harsh.
-“And then what will you do?” Why has it taken so long for a JRPG protagonist to ask this?

Overall, I had a damn good time playing through this game. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to try and cook royal crablettes. Turns out they can exist. All you need are king crabs. I swear that was the last bad pun I will make for the next 30 minutes.
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sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler: And now, I address the villain. *inhale*
-Lambda’s backstory sets him up as a dramatic foil to Sophie.
-“And then what will you do?” Why has it taken so long for a JRPG protagonist to ask this?


#1. No it doesn't.

#2. Because they think that the villain in Graces is an amazing creation of a villain when I think even GANONDORF is more interesting than Lambda. And that is a pretty bad punch in the face, coming from me.

Then again perhaps my intense dislike for Lambda and his "YOU MUST FEEL SORRY FOR HIIIIIIIIIIIM!!" background that's shoved in my face via cutscenes in the final, final dungeon just tipped the scale for me.

C-A

PS: What did you think of the "villain" of the F Arc? And what did you think of the AsbelxCheria and HubertxPascal shoved down your throat in the same arc? (I'm happy to hear a reference to Anise in that arc though)
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CatMuto wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler: And now, I address the villain. *inhale*
-Lambda’s backstory sets him up as a dramatic foil to Sophie.
-“And then what will you do?” Why has it taken so long for a JRPG protagonist to ask this?


#1. No it doesn't.

#2. Because they think that the villain in Graces is an amazing creation of a villain when I think even GANONDORF is more interesting than Lambda. And that is a pretty bad punch in the face, coming from me.

Then again perhaps my intense dislike for Lambda and his "YOU MUST FEEL SORRY FOR HIIIIIIIIIIIM!!" background that's shoved in my face via cutscenes in the final, final dungeon just tipped the scale for me.

C-A

PS: What did you think of the "villain" of the F Arc? And what did you think of the AsbelxCheria and HubertxPascal shoved down your throat in the same arc? (I'm happy to hear a reference to Anise in that arc though)

Spoiler:
1. Yes, it did. Lambda was sent to Ephinea to live, Sophie was sent to Ephinea to die. Lambda was hunted down by those he came across, Sophie was accepted by the people she came across. Sure, they never directly stated it, but it doesn't take more than five seconds of thought to realize it.
2. "That's no reason to do what you're doing" or something like that, was the main point that came across. The party knew Lambda wasn't an amazing creation of a villain, and they bloody fixed it.

The Fodra Queen? She had fun boss battles, aside from Dual the Sol, which apparently required me to memorize a button sequence from Tales of Eternia (who the hell would remember that?). And yes, I liked the two 4 vs 12 battles. Sue me. Narrative-wise, she's only there so the party can punch out a higher power. Because apparently that's a JRPG requirement these days.

I've already trained myself to ignore JRPG romance subplots, but I did recognize that in the main arc, AsbelxCheria was an intentional parody of romance subplots, rather than a direct subplot. So making it an actual thing was unnecessary. Most I can say about the F arc is that it gave us trolling Lambda, gave us a ham trying to be a bigger ham, and addressed the fact that Sophie would live on forever.

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Eternia sequence? Holy shit I didn't even know it WAS a sequence from that game. I think I gave up in the Bal Castle or so and was too distracted playing WHIZ! to really give a crap about the story. Never finished the game.

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I tried the Eternia sequence, but... couldn't trigger it, and didn't feel like doing the boss battle again so we just watched a youtube video

I didn't mind the AsbelxCheria, but HubertxPascal was weird. The scene where Hubert tried to confess to Pascal made it worth it, tho.
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Bad Player wrote:
I tried the Eternia sequence, but... couldn't trigger it, and didn't feel like doing the boss battle again so we just watched a youtube video

I didn't mind the AsbelxCheria, but HubertxPascal was weird. The scene where Hubert tried to confess to Pascal made it worth it, tho.


I never managed the whole sequence, though I never died during it, either. Probably cause I never fought her on anything other than Easy but that's mostly cause I didn't want to waste my time anymore.

AsbelxCheria is so shoved in my face, I almost feel like saying that LukexTear is SUBTLE in comparison. And HubertxPascal bugs me, too, it's just another pair of "Serious Person" and "Scatterbrained Genius". I'd like some originality, Namco!

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CatMuto wrote:
AsbelxCheria is so shoved in my face, I almost feel like saying that LukexTear is SUBTLE in comparison.

There's a difference between shoving it in your face, and using it as a punchline.
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sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
AsbelxCheria is so shoved in my face, I almost feel like saying that LukexTear is SUBTLE in comparison.

There's a difference between shoving it in your face, and using it as a punchline.


In the main arc, Asbel Cheria is pretty downplayed to the point that it's not there anymore. Or, as you say, a punchline. You know, I really liked that Cheria did not pine for him for those 7 years when he didn't contact her. And when she met him, she was cold and even yelled at him for running off and not contacting anyone, being the epitome of selfishness and such not.
Finally a childhood friend who tells the other friend off and isn't in love.

Then it became clear she still liked him (and her importance and personality kinda disappeared after yelling at Asbel, unfortunately) but it wasn't made important. It only was REALLY obvious if I happened to do a lot of sidequests.

Nah but where it's really shoved in my face is the F Arc. Even the beginning makes it obvious that Asbel now totally loves Cheria and they'll be together forevers and evers and cuddly-wuddly diabetes-inducing sweetness. Like looking at the marriage letters thinking "Cheria is like that, too... Cheria would like doing that..." and constantly teasing Cheria about Asbel...

They were doing so well in the main arc.
Though this is where the fanbase is absolutely split about Asbel and Cheria. People like me, who say that Asbel and Cheria getting together to the point of having offspring, comes out of nowhere because you never actually saw anything aside from the childhood arc AND THEN are annoyed because the F Arc feels like they just shoved it into our faces so we "see it".
And then people who ship those two and thought that they were just fine in the main arc, that they had the kind of love that didn't need to be in the spotlight AND THEN got annoyed cause the F Arc puts attention on it to make it obvious.

And this has nothing to do with the fact that I ship AsbelxRichard. :redd:

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I watched a playthough of the Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World/Knight of Ratatosk. I'm well aware that this was a low-budget spinoff game, and that several corners had to be cut. While that didn't stop me from having complaints like these:
Spoiler:
-The game opens up saying that everything going to shit almost immediately after the first game. This has a huge amount of potential and the game focuses on monsters that control the mana flow.
-The game also opens up with the obvious "either evil imposter or hidden agenda" cliche and answers with both in a less than satisfying manner.
-Emil is Luca with a split personality, except Luca's story was told much better.
-Laura Bailey is crushing on Johnny Yong Bosch again.
-The motion capture cutscenes are freaky as hell when meshed with the graphical style.
-Manitou is the spiritual and fundamental life force understood by the Algonquians. The Manitou in this game is a whale that behaves like a sandworm.
-Sheena's technique can produce a fake fake Ratatosk's core.
-This game is trying to make the line “I’m going to go on loving you regardless of how you feel” sound cute and not at all stalkerish.
-This game also seems to think that “Being handcuffed” and “Falling into pits” are character traits.
-“They’re a secret group that serves the Tethe’allan royal family. Perhaps you’ve heard of them? “I have!” “That’s us!”
-Jerk!Emil nearly killed someone/sent them to the shadow realm and is forgiven way too easily.
-The joke about an innocent person being labeled as a pervert is not funny, but that was in the first game as well.
-The bad ending is unintentionally the funniest scene in the entire series.

There are only two things I want to know:
How was this game advertised?
Was the existence of Centurions even hinted at in Phantasia?
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I absolutely hate Knight of Ratatosk. And I hate the English title. The new world had shit to do with what was going on, why not keep the title of Knight of Ratatosk? It makes sense and Ratatosk is not difficult to pronounce, as both versions clearly show that it can be easy to pronounce. I already thought that Symphonia never required a sequel to begin with, because I had no unfinished things going on, nor any questions. You could go with the idea "How would the world react, now that it's together? How would the environment or even the topography change?" (I think in a fanfic of mine I had the Iselia forest merge with the Gaoracchia Forest) but nothing to the point that it was a necessary thing. Just a little braincandy to think about.

Like in Abyss, how they talk about what will change and what they could potentially do to lessen the changes when they are talking about stopping the Planet Storm. The final scene takes place 2 years later, you could wonder what, if anything, has changed in the world but overall it isn't so big that a game needs to be made out of it.

Which I find sad. Despite not needing a sequel, I think Ratatosk COULD have been at least a DECENT game, had it not done so, so many missteps. Had Versperia, that overrated game, not eaten all the budget, I'm sure Ratatosk could've gotten what is obviously missing for a Tales Of staple. Like cooking for humans, some costumes (No! Headgear is NOT a costume and should never count as one!), Holy Bottles, better AI Settings for your party members... they preferably could've changed the gameplay as well by NOT nerfing the Symphonia cast so as to shove monster party members into our faces, made Martha not so annoying, Emil not such a douche and Ratatosk not such a jerk and Richter maybe a bit more interesting. Oh and made some better dungeon designs. I hated practically every dungeon in Ratatosk. Especially the Lezareno building! That and the human ranch with its damn elevator stuff. And to scrap the story and remove stupid things, like the fact that Lloyd is supposedly evil. Come on, any person who played even an hour of Symphonia knows he'd never act like that, so your plan and revelation was stupid.

And the really bad part is, for the PS3 remake of Chronicles, they didn't even bother to change anything! What took your money this time, Namco? What's your excuse for not scrapping the entire thing and building it anew (which could give me an actual reason to try the game again - which I didn't, I only bought Symphonia's PS3 version off the PSN) or at the very least add SOMETHING into the game? No, adding an artbook in-game and some headgears does not work, especially for European players cause WE ALREADY HAD THOSE!

To answer your question in terms of centurions... No. No, they were not somehow advertised or even hinted at in Phantasia. I think Symphonia MIGHT have hinted at it, because you may recall in the Shadow Temple, there's a wall where the characters goes ? when looking at it. In Ratatosk, that's where a centurion altar is. Though whether Ratatosk was already planned at that stage, it hinted at something that was cut out of the game or just a weird thing they added in, No idea.

And yes, it's sad that the best ending is labelled as the "Bad Ending" cause I thought that was the best one to begin with. Unfortunately it doesn't count for New Game + and only like a Game Over... The other issue is that the "Best Ending" is SO FREAKING EASY TO OBTAIN! Hello, I made a mistake and I STILL got it! Namco, the point of a best ending is to do something that goes beyond the regular and almost makes it a chore to see it. (Like FF X-2 with the 100% completion to see an extra cutscene. Sure the cutscene wasn't great and Yuna's grin was scary, but at least getting the completion was something.)

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*dances in* Oh, I'm so happy there's a Tales topic here! ^_^

I'm pretty new to the Tales series... My first Tales game was Xillia, and I really enjoyed it. After that I played Symphonia, which I just finished a few days ago, and now I'm crazy-obsessed with it and telling everyone it's the best game ever, because I loved it so much!
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Xillia or Symphonia?
You should play Abyss.
I originally played it cause people were praising it and I wanted to see what was so good about it. And I saw what was good about it, to the point that it shares first spot with Symphonia as my current favorite Tales game. (Though I might say Abyss is just a few notches higher, mostly cause out of a 7 people party, I only found 1 really annoying, compared to Symphonia's 9 man party, where 2 felt pointless and 2 were pretty annoying)

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Seven party members? Wasn't one of them only playable for one dungeon? Or are you counting Ion?

Also, I've been trying out Tales of Destiny for the PS1. I can see past the age, but I can't see past the fact that NPCs mention that not wearing appropriate clothes in the snowy region will lead to sickness, while the three female party members who were introduced there should have caught hypothermia with what they were wearing. Also, on a scale of 1 to Yukari Takeba, I think Rutee just broke the scale of annoying party members. Yes, go ahead and steal from someone right under his nose, then take his inn reservations. I can't see this backfiring in any way. And if it does, it's all Stahn's fault.
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sumguy28 wrote:
Seven party members? Wasn't one of them only playable for one dungeon? Or are you counting Ion?

Also, I've been trying out Tales of Destiny for the PS1. I can see past the age, but I can't see past the fact that NPCs mention that not wearing appropriate clothes in the snowy region will lead to sickness, while the three female party members who were introduced there should have caught hypothermia with what they were wearing. Also, on a scale of 1 to Yukari Takeba, I think Rutee just broke the scale of annoying party members. Yes, go ahead and steal from someone right under his nose, then take his inn reservations. I can't see this backfiring in any way. And if it does, it's all Stahn's fault.


Technically two, though one is a sidequest. No, I don't count Ion.

Rutee is that annoying? I recall playing Destiny on the PSX, but not for very long. I mostly know Destiny because I worked on the German scanlation team for its manga for a while.

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Quote:
and why does everybody love Leon? Again, he's nothing special. He's the anti-hero with a silly sympathetic backstory and bam. That's it. Granted, having Midorikawa Hikaru voice him is freaking sexy, but that's not enough to make a character.

Going by the first eight hours of Tales of Destiny, he's the only character who actually has any character. As soon as he appears, he becomes the one moving the plot forward while he drags everyone else along for the ride. Seriously, almost no one else has done anything. Stahn's the idiot (I know I said the same thing about Lloyd, but he actually did stuff), Rutee "jokes" about stealing things, Philia is a priestess and nothing else, Mary is... Rutee's friend, maybe? Karyl is the only other person to have some motivation by wanting to save... someone, but even that has to be ruined somehow. He introduces himself by getting rid of guards pursuing the party by... singing. Somehow this convinces the guards to not look in the one place they haven't looked. Oh yeah, Chelsea and Woodrow (who's name was changed in the official translation to... Garr (wtf does that mean)) appeared for ten minutes.
So what about the gameplay? It's okay for its time, I suppose. But then it gave us a puzzle; one requiring you to listen to the sounds of animals and match them to corresponding switches. This would be okay were it not for the fact that soundclips are compressed to the point where the sounds are barely distinguishable from one another. That, and I haven't seen a single skit in this game since it started. I was under the impression that Phantasia had skits; did they remove them for only this game?
What it boils down to is: eight hours in and I found nothing in this game worth being invested in to carry onward.

Spoiler: Tangentially related, but... what is... this?
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Seeing that picture, as glad as I am that Symphonia got a nice animation... I hate the animation. Three guesses why.

As for Leon, I find him over-liked. He's the "tragic" sympathetic anti-hero. His only reason for doing stuff is because Marian is being held hostage or what not. And there are only 2 things worth knowing about Leon.

Spoiler: Things You Need To Know About Leon Magnus
1. He's gonna die in a "sacrificing" way, so we'll feel sorry for him.
2. He's Rutee's (half)-brother.

And that last one is not treated very well as a huge surprise. I didn't know ANYTHING about the game, then I saw a manga page of an early game event where Leon and Rutee are on the same page and I just thought "Twins". Granted I was wrong about that, but they still look SO similar, it's kind of hard to not figure this out ages before they decide to reveal it.


It's like the Kratos-Lloyd thing all over.

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Technically, I kind of already spoiled myself on that with Radiant Mythology, but the dialogue in this game wasn't very good at hiding it.

And as it turns out, there are skits in this game. Just not in the official translation.
Quote:
All of these scenes were removed from the North American release of Tales of Destiny, as no English voice actors were hired for the game. Furthermore, due to the limitations of the PlayStation console, there is no available space on the world map screen for subtitles, and as a result, no official translation was made for these scenes.

And there goes my incentive to continue playing.

Also, here's a kazoo cover of Fatalize.
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I gave Tales of Eternia a go. Lasted 25 hours. Gameplay-wise, it was an improvement over Destiny, but the story was mostly unmemorable. Things just happened, people moved forward with the plot, not much discernible meaning to it. Granted, that may have to do with the English translators removing the skits from the game (AGAIN). For me, the most memorable character was the Cless cameo, and that's only because he is a legitimately stronger swordsman than the player character endgame an asshole.
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