Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
SCIENCE!
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Bleachlover wrote:
Was Radient Dawn REALLY mediocre?
I would say so, but then again I disliked Path of Radiance as well. Which you obviously liked.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Don't mind me, just passing through.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Quote:
Oh, and Deltron, your argument is terrible.
Generally, debates involve this thing called an example, and they help support your ideas.
Generally, debates involve this thing called an example, and they help support your ideas.
Uh, I provided examples. You however, provided fanboy rants with your "examples." Many of your "examples" were merely "What If's," and placing blind faith in Nintendo. My argument is terrible? How so?
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." -Doc
Last edited by Deltron on Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Bleachlover wrote:
Well, I haven't played it truth be told, but I like the character, the picture I have is from the Dojo. I'm getting the game soon.
My sister really likes PoR. I haven't really gotten to play it yet though. (Stupid work schedule!)
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Fenix wrote:
As a final note, Boredman, you're an idiot.
No offense, but your debating skills lack everything needed to convince someone that your argument holds water.
No offense, but your debating skills lack everything needed to convince someone that your argument holds water.
I was talking about how biased they were against the wii. They were passing the ENTIRE thing, facts and opinions, as a biased fanboy rant. I was saying that the wii was better than they gave credit for.
But I suppose that that doesn't matter since the topic is "Does the wii suck?"
In response to the title: No, it doesn't. It's not perfect either. None of the consoles suck or are perfect.
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I give up, the Wii is what it is to the person who bought and played it. You give it much more credit than I will, whatever.
Don't mind me, just passing through.
Last edited by ParrotMan01 on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Quote:
They were passing the ENTIRE thing, facts and opinions, as a biased fanboy rant.
You were passing off our ENTIRE thing as biased anti-wii rant, no matter what.
Quote:
I was saying that the wii was better than they gave credit for.
You were SAYING we were all wrong. If you were saying what you thought you were saying, your post would have looked like this:
Boredman should have wrote:
Hey guys, the Wii is better than you give it credit for. It has online download functions, a clean and simple user interface, virtual console, and a fairly comprehensive game collection.
^ The above post would have gotten somewhat positive reaction.
Fenix wrote:
As a final note, Boredman, you're an idiot.
No offense, but your debating skills lack everything needed to convince someone that your argument holds water.
No offense, but your debating skills lack everything needed to convince someone that your argument holds water.
Face it, Boredman. When the person who wrote the essay you're defending calls you an idiot, you've got to be doing something wrong. I mean, no matter how right you are, if your debating style manages to piss off just about everyone who looks at your posts, people will tend to dismiss you at a moment's glance of your screen name.
Plus, you've failed to provide ANY conclusive evidence of any of your claims. Any times I asked you if you had said evidence, you completely ignored that part of my posts.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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QuiteTheOddfellow wrote:
Quote:
360 and ps3 fans don't have anything to prove here
Surely they'd have to prove their viewpoint of the Wii being a gimmick.
yes ,but i was refering to large essays and stuff along those line. if you were a fan of ps3, would you be inspired by your belief in the console to kill something that you already deem as bad, that has nothing to do with the general opinion of your console? where as nintendo fans are having their big thing shot down
it's more of a matter of motivation
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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It gets a 9/10
The 360 is fine.
360 gets 8/10
PS3 doesn't stand out.
PS3 gets 6/10
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
QuiteTheOddfellow
Personally, I think these numbers are much accurate.
Wii: 5/10
XBOX 360: 5/10
PS3: 5/10
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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QuiteTheOddfellow wrote:
That's some very convincing evidence you have there, Boredman, I am now able to see the extent of your argument and I am finding myself feeling slightly swayed to your way of thinking.
Personally, I think these numbers are much accurate.
Wii: 5/10
XBOX 360: 5/10
PS3: 5/10
Personally, I think these numbers are much accurate.
Wii: 5/10
XBOX 360: 5/10
PS3: 5/10
....
.......
.........................................................
jesus. You people take shit WAY too seriously.
Nobody's ever going to convince everyone that "This console is better than the others."
Everyone has a concrete opinion about consoles that is not likely to change.
If someone gives a rating to a system that you don't agree with, don't sarcasticly shoot them down, tell them that you like another better.
Everyone is able to present evidence(lol PW) to prove their point, but others feel that a good point is a bad point, or vice versa. This explains how much you guys act like assholes when someone defends a console you don't like.
Everyone has a bias. Deal with it. Saying "No, that sucks. You're an idiot." won't change that. They'll just think you're an ass.
It's a no-win scenario for everyone.
I realize I may have acted a bit like that, but now I've done some thinking about why there are these arguments.
My preference is the Wii. Gameplay is the most important aspect. That's my view.
I expect this to be taken seriously, but since the debate forum is closed, I doubt it.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
QuiteTheOddfellow
Quote:
Nobody's ever going to convince everyone that "This console is better than the others."
Everyone has a concrete opinion about consoles that is not likely to change.
Everyone has a concrete opinion about consoles that is not likely to change.
That's the exact opposite of what I'm trying to do. ;_;
I don't want to anyone to think that any other system is superior to another, my goal is to have as many people as possible to appreciate all of the 3 systems equally. I've seen too many forums where talking about any one system will result in half-witted fanboys rushing the thread and participating in what seems like a viral marketing circle-jerk while they chant these ridiculous, uneducated statements about the particular system's library/hardware.
Quote:
Everyone has a bias. Deal with it. Saying "No, that sucks. You're an idiot." won't change that. They'll just think you're an ass.
Not necessarily true, when speaking of consoles... I know quite a few people, myself included, whom I would consider to be completely impartial.
Quote:
My preference is the Wii. Gameplay is the most important aspect. That's my view.
Then don't you think it might be best to avoid threads such as this, then? I mean, really. It's obvious from the thread title that its going to contain a lot of anti-wii comments, so surely you'd want to stay out of such a thread to avoid becoming enraged?
One more thing which I can't directly quote because of a silly rule.
At the start of the post you say that we taking things too seriously, then at the end of your post, you say you expect your post to be taken seriously? That left me mildly confused.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Concerned Citizen wrote:
Fenix wrote:
Me? A fanboy?
You've got to be kidding me! ; )
Yea, I admit, I am a bit of Nintendo fanboy, but that does not meanI don't love the 360 as well.
360 is an incredible system, with great game and graphics, but it just has too may flaws.
You've got to be kidding me! ; )
Yea, I admit, I am a bit of Nintendo fanboy, but that does not meanI don't love the 360 as well.
360 is an incredible system, with great game and graphics, but it just has too may flaws.
Fenix wrote:
EAT THAT 360 LOVERS!
Wow...you sure do like to flip-flop your messages.
Au contraire, my feeble minded friend.
Simply because I've thrown the Wii's greatness in the face of 360 lovers does not mean that I do not like the 360, it simply means that I think the Wii is better.
Don't assume.
Concerned Citizen wrote:
Surely they'd have to prove their viewpoint of the Wii being a gimmick.
But that's the beauty of it.
It has a great gimmick to draw people in, and then after the gimmick loses it's gimmicky-ness, there are a bunch of great hardcore games that gamers can love.
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andrx wrote:
yes, but i was refering to large essays and stuff along those line. if you were a fan of ps3, would you be inspired by your belief in the console to kill something that you already deem as bad, that has nothing to do with the general opinion of your console?
Well not everyone who's a PS3 fan is like that. I'm standing up for Sony and just saying 2007's performance was okay, 2006's was poor, although who knows what 2008 has? Metal Gear Solid 4 still is a Playstation 3 exclusive, after all.
Wii back in 2006, was okay. 2007 was great for the Wii, and Brawl comes out this year, so It's obvious what sales will be like for the Wii plus, think Hardcore gamers will have more fun again and get something to do other than play Zelda, Super Mario Galaxy, Trauma Center and Virtual Console games.
360 was REALLY Poor back in 2005, 2006 was Awesome, 2007 was even cooler, but I really have a feeling they are not going to make that much games this year they pretty much think Halo 3 will keep their backs safe for a long time, (Even though Halo 3's live is pretty much dying.)
Console wars suck anyways, People keep debating trying to change minds of people of Opinions that can't be changed. If you want proof of this, look at the not-Black Console-fanboy Chad Warrden. (Tears of War? Gay-lo?)
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Sony is a television/etc. company, hance the graphical direction.
Nintendo has always been a game company, hence the gameplay direction.
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Boredman wrote:
Microsoft is mainly a computer company, hence the online direction.
Sony is a television/etc. company, hance the graphical direction.
Nintendo has always been a game company, hence the gameplay direction.
Sony is a television/etc. company, hance the graphical direction.
Nintendo has always been a game company, hence the gameplay direction.
Well yeah.
My friend at school prefers the PS3(I think he still does, but not sure) because he used to be a TV addict.
My friend not at my school has a PS3, he loves TV too.
Don't mind me, just passing through.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Fenix wrote:
Concerned Citizen wrote:
Surely they'd have to prove their viewpoint of the Wii being a gimmick.
But that's the beauty of it.
It has a great gimmick to draw people in, and then after the gimmick loses it's gimmicky-ness, there are a bunch of great hardcore games that gamers can love.
I hate to break it to you...
But it wasn't I who said that.
QuiteTheOddfellow wrote:
Surely they'd have to prove their viewpoint of the Wii being a gimmick.
Xbox Live: LadyDuoMaxwell
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Folks, I think we've covered the "Does the Wii truly Suck?" part of the topic thoroughly now. It's been firmly established that something being liked or disliked is a matter of opinion, so I feel this side of discussion has gone as far as it can go; quit beating the withered, skeletal horse corpse outside and let's move on to the heart of the matter, which you all seem to have quietly sidestepped for some reason I can't work out. :P
So. "Are Video-Games too mainstream?" This one's a problem to begin discussing simply because we don't have the information to answer the question yet. This is an international board, and what is or is not "mainstream" varies from country to country.
That makes it awkward to start this off (and pretty much answers my own question) but what is apparent is how this issue ties into the reason Wii and DS exist in the first place - the formerly collapsing Japanese games market. For those of you not familiar with this situation, the Japanese market was beginning to enter a recession as hardcore gamers were getting bored of playing games as they existed in the previous generation and elaborated further on the PS3 and Xbox 360 (of which I have no experience of either so will not comment in any detail beyond that); this is in direct contrast to the general western market, which is seeing a general increase in both acceptance and usage of more serious and complicated games, such as Assasin's Creed among others.
The solution in the Japanese market was to create simpler, more accessible games that appealed to a wider audience; the DS and Wii. Nintendo is a company uniquely equipped to attempt this culture shift, given its experience in giving great depth to a simple concept to broaden its appeal to the maximum possible extent (i.e. Super Mario Bros, the Legend of Zelda). Nintendo is not, nor has it ever been, well equipped to handle the Western (and Chinese) phenomenon of social gaming via the Internet; the champion of this concept being the MMO genre which has relatively poor market penentration in Japan. Another key point of conflict is the almost totally undeveloped PC Gaming sector in Japan, which makes it difficult for Japanese developers to understand and adapt the concept to local audiences.
Another honourable mention is the unique adoption of StarCraft in South Korea, where the game is treated as a national sport. StarCraft 2 was developed specifically to update and advance the StarCraft phenomenon in Korea, without alienating Western audiences in the process.
This, I hope, makes the problem clear, and most of you were aware of it; there is a major, almost unsolvable rift between Japanese/Asian culture and Western culture that causes them to enjoy unique genres of games that have limited appeal when released elsewhere. The Wii is a particular victim of this, being a home console with relatively poor dedicated online gaming facilities. This is the root of the problem you have been discussing for the last eight pages.
So, the question is this: where do you see the videogame industry ending up in the next decade, and if you don't like it, how can we avoid that problem?
My two cents: Japan is about to lose its influence in the hardcore videogame market and surrender it to the West, which is probably for the best in the long run. One problem not accounted for in the West that is dealt with in Japan are budget console games. Japan offers the "SIMPLE Wii" series, offering cut-price games with simple concepts and low budgets and fills a gap in the market to make gaming more accessible and profitable without affecting the reputation of premium games. It goes without saying that all consoles should offer a stringently quality-controlled budget games section to broaden the market and kill the cash cow game fad the West is currently suffering from.
OK folks, discuss!
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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2. I agree with tinker.
on page 2, back when i was trying to shut gears up.. i said
andrx wrote:
as of right now, from what all the "wii is for kiddies" theorists are saying, all of the games that are more childlike are selling extremely well. if that is so, then nintendo sees their fans as wanting these games.
In reality, they aren't catering to their "real fans", but sales are all they have to look at.
In reality, they aren't catering to their "real fans", but sales are all they have to look at.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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andrx wrote:
1. NO MOAR ESSAYS
You call that an essay?! O_o That's a blurb at best! :P
I'm used to forums that bite your heads off for one-liner posts. I don't think I could have been more concise that time, but I'll try to keep this one brief. ;)
Tinker's post is indeed most wise.
andrx wrote:
In reality, they aren't catering to their "real fans", but sales are all they have to look at.
Excellent point; the problem then is how do you tell Nintendo what they need to do to maintain their reputation with the veteran gamers and prove that this information is relevant to a large enough audience to warrant development time?
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Asura Velotix wrote:
andrx wrote:
1. NO MOAR ESSAYS
You call that an essay?! O_o That's a blurb at best! :P
I'm used to forums that bite your heads off for one-liner posts. I don't think I could have been more concise that time, but I'll try to keep this one brief. ;)
Tinker's post is indeed most wise.
andrx wrote:
In reality, they aren't catering to their "real fans", but sales are all they have to look at.
Excellent point; the problem then is how do you tell Nintendo what they need to do to maintain their reputation with the veteran gamers and prove that this information is relevant to a large enough audience to warrant development time?
long essays aren't bad or anything, we've just seen way too many of them on this thread specifically
And gears brought up the same point about showing nintendo. as of right now, the only solution is flooding them with compaints, but other than that, there isn't much else we CAN do
and internet petitions are worthless
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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andrx wrote:
internet petitions are worthless
QFT
Quote:
there isn't much else we CAN do
That, however, I do not agree on. There is a way. It's not easy, but it's do-able. Nintendo, especially as they're a company that relies on their games for their international profits, needs clear evidence that there is profit to be made in releasing more complicated titles. Nintendo currently rely on their sales figures as evidence. You must then prove that these sales figures do not represent the market accurately to gain any leverage to a claim that the market is being poorly serviced.
The Ace Attorney series is one example of a series with a large import market that will distort sales figures. Gathering data from import sites and comparing it alongside official sales records would provide a much more accurate picture of the world videogame sales climate in general.
(Told you it was a tough one. :P)
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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andrx wrote:
and internet petitions are worthless
Mother 3 was made due to an Internet petition...
Posted by Request.
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Mother 3 was made due to an Internet petition...
I'd like to see proof of this, please. (I just looked, no luck.) This is news to me.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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So, my question is--the system sells well, but is anyone actually buying the games for the Wii at all?
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So many of the good games are not being bought and played for a couple of reasons.
1. They just got it for a specific game(mostly Brawl)
2. They don't know about the good games
3. They know, but most are ports or they don't care
4. They are scared of how bad it might be(even if it's not)
Don't mind me, just passing through.
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I should know, I signed the bloody thing, hmm......
Found a quote!
"We had high hopes for Earthbound, the Super NES version, in the US, but it didn't do well... You might not know this, but there was a petition in the US, a 'Please make Mother 3 [an Earthbound sequel]' petition and it got about 30,000 signatures! After that, we thought 'Wow... Earthbound fans are really solid'."
Topic: "Earthbound Petition making a difference?"
Link:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?si ... /14/235245
Posted by Request.
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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ANOTHER link:
http://www.earthboundhq.com/petition.htm
Posted by Request.
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And to answer kenji's question, all of these "new audience" gamers (adults and seniors) who are buying the wii are probably just using it for wii sports and not really looking into upcoming games like most of the us do.
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If I remember, Suda's not the first person to say this. I suspect we really are going to end up with Gamecube 2 at this rate.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/ar ... ?id=179648
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Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.
Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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A Megaman Starforce type game on the Wii!
I would love to fire the megabuster from my own hand, and Megaman is a big name character that could sell well!
And I'm not talking another game like Battle Network had on the GC, I'm talking about a full world to explore and an original story. They could even let you upload your own battle cards from the DS!
My point here is we need a big name company to make a serious effort to show what the Wii can do, not just Nintendo or Sega. (Yes, I feel that Sega is trying.)
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I'm not saying I hated that game though. It had some unique elements... but Capcom better work hard at that! We need another GOOD Megaman game!
Posted by Request.
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?
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Deltron wrote:
The Wii needs less ports with Wii controls added and more original games that aren't a bunch of shovelware/mini game or made by the N.
Yeah, except those things aren't selling at all.
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