Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream? : Police Station

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:09 pm

Donald Serrot

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The Wii is also making non-gamers into "real" gamers. My mom loves Tomb Raider. Before she would never have played a video game.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:36 pm

Gerkuman

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To put it into perspective, 'well' is dependant on sales. Since the Wii sells more than any of the previous Ninty Consoles, you're going to have more of those people who want the more casual games. It makes sense. However, when you take these people away you notice that the games that gamers are playing are selling just as well as they did before. The problem is that the wii has so many people buying it, it makes the 'hardcore market' look smaller.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:33 pm

Minoru Dark

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AgostonF wrote:

I think the current consoles go..

Xbox360 > Wii > PS3

(I know wii and xbox are close, but the ps3 is utter crap)

DS > PSP (The PSP is still good, but the DS is just dominating)

I agree that the Wii is a great console, but it has pretty bad or not enough good games. The 360 has a staggering amount of amazing games while the PS3 has multi-console games and Lair.

I swear wii and DS winning the console wars and there are loads of great games on the wii plus loads more are coming out :eh?:

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:13 am

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Gozu wrote:

-____- wrote:

The PS3 has a much stronger line-up than the Wii, actually.

*snort*

Anyway, yeah, sure, the Wii is Nintendo's attempt at capturing that non-hardcore market. And so what? There are still "hardcore" games for it (Brawl, No More Heroes, Trauma Center, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, etc., etc.). Sure there are games like Wii Sports, Play and Fitness. So? those games are fun.

You're a tool if you think that the Wii doesn't have worthwhile games on it.

The problem is... even with those 'hardcore games'... you can see a very definite 'casual' influence. Prime 3 and Galaxy seem to have suffered the most, and I expect Brawl will have similar problems.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:42 am

Kenjimurasame

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Not to mention, the "hardcore" games just aren't selling. Regardless of how many "more" people own the system, the numbers aren't adding up--and even if they're matching what the GCube had for similar games, that's not a good thing, considering the Cube's rather shortened life expectancy and being more or less ignored, save for a few (mostly nintendo made) titles.

Look at No More Heroes, the best example so far. "hardcore" focus, great style, gameplay, interesting, and....didn't even make it into the top 20 of game sales for the period it was released in. In fact the only sales related thing it's famous for is NOT selling.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:19 am

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Casual versus hardcore dispute:

Usually-decent people that don't know what they're doing, as opposed to masterful basement-dwelling antisocial fat filthy jerks.

Pick your poison.

(Yes, I know they're both extremes, but still)

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:02 am

Concerned Citizen

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Tinker wrote:

That's not what people said, though. The "non"-games, Wii Fit etc., seem to be selling far, far better than all the "worthwhile" games. That makes third-party developers afraid of publishing something on the Wii, as they should - if it's too complicated, they just don't sell.

I have a question that has been bugging me when you wrote that.

What if they advertise the third-party developers' games for the Wii constantly? Would their games sell like hot cakes or people would still not care?

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Deltron

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It'd definitely increase sales overall, but I don't know if it'd make the games hot cakes. I suppose it would depend on the game. I know people who are "real" gamers that didn't even know they released a Wii version of RE4 or they released Umbrella Chronicles...so increased advertising of third parties would help indefinitely.

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:43 pm

Tinker

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Concerned Citizen wrote:

Tinker wrote:

That's not what people said, though. The "non"-games, Wii Fit etc., seem to be selling far, far better than all the "worthwhile" games. That makes third-party developers afraid of publishing something on the Wii, as they should - if it's too complicated, they just don't sell.

I have a question that has been bugging me when you wrote that.

What if they advertise the third-party developers' games for the Wii constantly? Would their games sell like hot cakes or people would still not care?

I doubt a lot of people will go "Hey, I want that" just from seeing commercials if they weren't interested in the first place. I've never seen any commercials for, say, Wii Play, but it still sells very well - better than Galaxy, which was advertised for.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:26 pm

Kenjimurasame

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Most Wii commercials I've ever seen, mostly those "Wii would like to play" ones, focus on all of the in-box stuff the Wii does. Mii generating, WiiPlay, and sometimes Wiisports / Fit. I've only seen one of those adds with SMG in it.

The Wii is being sold, basically, on what it does out of the box. It's a toy, not a game system--the fact that you can put other things IN the Wii seems to be secondary to Nintendo's goal of "look what you can do just by plugging it in!" It's like an iPod. "Sure, you can import other MP3s, but isn't it better just to use iTunes and download straight from Apple!"

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:58 pm

Actorman

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Well, isn't it good that the system can at least stand on its own? I admit that Nintendo was extremely foolish with its sparse amount of launch titles, but it's slowly regaining steam. The fact that the Wii even had the staying power its had in the next-gen race by living simply off itself speaks volumes about it as a system.

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:28 pm

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The reason Wii is selling so well is because Nintendo didn't want to make a games console, per se, but more like something a gadget the whole family can use. Shigeru Miyamoto once said he wanted the Wii to be as recognisable as the TV.
But the Wii has lots of hardcore games, tucked away under those family games. Zelda, SMG, Resi, Trauma Center...
So the Wii has things for hardcore gamers and your gran.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:27 pm

Kenjimurasame

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Actorman wrote:

Well, isn't it good that the system can at least stand on its own? I admit that Nintendo was extremely foolish with its sparse amount of launch titles, but it's slowly regaining steam. The fact that the Wii even had the staying power its had in the next-gen race by living simply off itself speaks volumes about it as a system.

The problem is, video game systems are not made to "stand alone." Once everyone has a Wii, they won't need another one--and if they don't ever bother with any of the other games for it, all you've done is sold 2 million systems and nothing else. Game systems make money not by units sold, but my software and peripherals sold because of them.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:08 pm

Gozu

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Personally, I'd like to see some sales data to back this up.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:47 pm

Hakuro de Killer

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Well then, Miss Gozu, allow me to present evidence to prove that the Wii is doing much better financially than the 360 and PS3:

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=W ... &end=39467

This is data taken from 21st of January 2007 to today's date, 22nd of January 2008 for sales all over the globe. As you can see, the only time the Wii was threatened was during March 26th, 2007. This was the same day that the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was released for the PS3, which initiated a huge spike. However, after a week or two, the Wii continued to become dominant.

There is a second spike, though not really as threatening. On November 1st, 2007, there is a spike that makes the XBox 360 dominant for a couple weeks. This date is known by several people as the day Halo 3 was released for the 360. However, shortly after this temporary spike, the Wii showed off its aggression on December 24th, 2007. At this time, the Wii dominated by selling more consoles than the 360 and the PS3 combined.

Also, to note on cost history, PS3 and the XBox 360 have each been forced to use markdowns. However, from November 16, 2006 to today's date, the Wii has remained at a constant price, which started out and is STILL lower than the competition. This should be enough financial data for you and everyone participating in the thread.

To put my opinions and speculations behind this, I do believe the Wii does NOT suck at all and video games are already mainstream. Were they not mainstream, they would have died out long ago like the pet rocks of old. Several people, myself proudly included, feel that video games will and should soon be, if not already, just as mainstream as movies or music.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:07 pm

Donald Serrot

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Hakuro de Killer wrote:

This is data taken from 21st of January 2007 to today's date, 22nd of January 2008 for sales all over the globe. As you can see, the only time the Wii was threatened was during March 26th, 2007.

Wow. I just noticed that this data starts on my birthday (1/21) and the date the Wii was threatened is my sister's birthday (3/26).
Hmmmmm... very interesting...

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:36 pm

Hakuro de Killer

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OFF TOPIC: Ah, I was unaware. Happy Birthday yesterday!

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:17 pm

Donald Serrot

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Thanks! Umm... ah...

Spoiler: Wii Rocks!

Spoiler: because

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:04 am

fox334

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Hakuro de Killer wrote:

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=W ... &end=39467

You quoted VG charts.
:beef:

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:05 am

Wrestlemania

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Donald Serrot wrote:

Thanks! Umm... ah...

Spoiler: Wii Rocks!

Spoiler: because

I love that second one!

I assume the first one was done at some store or something...

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:07 am

Kenjimurasame

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Hakuro de Killer wrote:

Well then, Miss Gozu, allow me to present evidence to prove that the Wii is doing much better financially than the 360 and PS3:

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=W ... &end=39467

This is data taken from 21st of January 2007 to today's date, 22nd of January 2008 for sales all over the globe. As you can see, the only time the Wii was threatened was during March 26th, 2007. This was the same day that the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was released for the PS3, which initiated a huge spike. However, after a week or two, the Wii continued to become dominant.

There is a second spike, though not really as threatening. On November 1st, 2007, there is a spike that makes the XBox 360 dominant for a couple weeks. This date is known by several people as the day Halo 3 was released for the 360. However, shortly after this temporary spike, the Wii showed off its aggression on December 24th, 2007. At this time, the Wii dominated by selling more consoles than the 360 and the PS3 combined.

Also, to note on cost history, PS3 and the XBox 360 have each been forced to use markdowns. However, from November 16, 2006 to today's date, the Wii has remained at a constant price, which started out and is STILL lower than the competition. This should be enough financial data for you and everyone participating in the thread.

To put my opinions and speculations behind this, I do believe the Wii does NOT suck at all and video games are already mainstream. Were they not mainstream, they would have died out long ago like the pet rocks of old. Several people, myself proudly included, feel that video games will and should soon be, if not already, just as mainstream as movies or music.

This doesn't really prove anything, at least, not the data she was asking for. We all know it's the best selling system. We're not talking about the system, per se, but the fact that the games on the system are not selling in relation to the system itself.

Although VGCharts is not particularly reliable, it does have a basic amount of information that we can use.

Here's the Wii game sales:

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?nam ... rder=Sales

You'll notice that, after WiiPlay and Sports, there's a 50% drop in sales from game to game. Sports is listed at 17 mil, Play at 8 mil (plus whatever systems, but this is single games sold, not bundled in) and then...Mario, at 4 mil. It continually gets smaller after that. Even then, 9 of the 10 best selling games on the system are made by Nintendo, and the #10 spot seems to be almost a tie between quite a few games, RE4, GHIII, etc. The sales numbers for PS3 and X360 games are lower than the top 3 Wii titles, but they show greater variety and not single party dominance.

Basically, the talk of the Wii failing is a calculated gambit--we're not just saying it to be haters, but the fact that, if you look at the Gamecube, the sales chart is similar (but smaller in numbers of units), with only 1 of the top 10 GCube games being made by a company other than Nintendo. And while WiiSports' sales are impressive, it's more shocking how LOW the sales of other Wii games are in comparison. Everyone is buying WiiSports, apparently, but not many people are buying the other games--consider how many Wii systems the chart shows as being sold and in distribution, and this is where the fear of developers leaving the system, or the system failing in general, comes from.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:54 am

andrx

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The main point I'm going to bring up is that the wii's sales have no real relevance to whether "the wii truly sucks". Yes, it's selling well, but we have that because of the influx of "non-gamers".

In the end, these sales numbers have no real baring on how good the system and it's games are, just how many people are buying it.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:14 am

Kenjimurasame

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While this is true, it depends on how you're looking at it "sucking." The sale of games is the point, not systems--the lack of decent, non-nintendo, non-minigame games is a major kill point for a lot of people (myself included), and so in that sense, yes, it sucks, and it doesn't look to be getting better.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:27 am

Tinker

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Kenjimurasame wrote:

[ Everyone is buying WiiSports, apparently, but not many people are buying the other games--consider how many Wii systems the chart shows as being sold and in distribution, and this is where the fear of developers leaving the system, or the system failing in general, comes from.

While the point is good, Wii Sports' sales includes those of the (in Europe and America) package of a Wii and Wii Sports. You can't buy Wiis in many other ways than that, as far as I know.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:06 pm

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I wasn't even aware you can buy WiiSports any other ways other than by buying the Wii... At least, that's the issue near where I live...

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:58 pm

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andrx wrote:

The main point I'm going to bring up is that the wii's sales have no real relevance to whether "the wii truly sucks". Yes, it's selling well, but we have that because of the influx of "non-gamers".

In the end, these sales numbers have no real baring on how good the system and it's games are, just how many people are buying it.

I think the point is that if 3rd party companies decide to make less games for the Wii (or stop all together) eventually the only good games coming out for the system will be from Nintendo itself. And if they can't pump out good titles fast enough, what will you play on your Wii? Will "hardcore gamers" be satisfied playing Mario, Zelda, and Metroid over and over?

I'm sure plenty of people will be just as happy to only play Wii Sports for the entirety of the system's lifetime, but without 3rd party support Wii's library might be crippled. Might even be bad news for whatever system comes after it...

Not to say that the PS3 is doing better at the moment. But once LBP and MGS4 and FFXIII are all out (by 2009 or some shit ;_;) we might get a better idea of its staying power.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 pm

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Croik wrote:

I think the point is that if 3rd party companies decide to make less games for the Wii (or stop all together) eventually the only good games coming out for the system will be from Nintendo itself. And if they can't pump out good titles fast enough, what will you play on your Wii? Will "hardcore gamers" be satisfied playing Mario, Zelda, and Metroid over and over?.

It'll be the N64 (and to a lesser extent, the GC) all over again. Love both systems, but as you mentioned, playing Mario/Zelda/Samus over and over gets kinda boring.

"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." -Doc

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:36 pm

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Well lets be honest: Some of the best games they ever made stopped on the SNES!... most of them were Squaresoft games (with the exception of Earthbound and POSSIBLY Chrono Trigger... but Secret of Evermore was made by them...)

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:03 pm

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Wrestlemania wrote:

Well lets be honest: Some of the best games they ever made stopped on the SNES!... most of them were Squaresoft games (with the exception of Earthbound and POSSIBLY Chrono Trigger... but Secret of Evermore was made by them...)

You no making sense all at.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:11 pm

Kenjimurasame

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Whoops, my bad. I had thought WiiSports was the standalone and Play was the pack in--I get them mixed up.

Either way, though, it doesn't really point to "good things" sales wise when only two games seem to make up the majority of your sales, and you give one of them away.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:30 pm

Wrestlemania

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*sighs*

Some of the best video game series' had games on the SNES, and not on any of the next-gen consoles. Earthbound has a Japanese one, Chrono Trigger's "sequel" belonged with the PS1, and Final Fantasy games were either Japanese, or English, but with Sony.

I didn't mean GAMES, I meant the SERIES. Final Fantasy, the "Secret Of" series, and Mother. None survived with Nintendo when they moved to the next level.

Granted, FF is pretty much Square's series, but that makes it a third-party game!

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:56 pm

Kenjimurasame

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Wrestlemania wrote:

*sighs*

Some of the best video game series' had games on the SNES, and not on any of the next-gen consoles. Earthbound has a Japanese one, Chrono Trigger's "sequel" belonged with the PS1, and Final Fantasy games were either Japanese, or English, but with Sony.

I didn't mean GAMES, I meant the SERIES. Final Fantasy, the "Secret Of" series, and Mother. None survived with Nintendo when they moved to the next level.

Granted, FF is pretty much Square's series, but that makes it a third-party game!

Uh, they did move on. Seiken Densetsu still comes out (Secret of Mana's original series). Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games not only still come out, but are extremely successful. Earthbound is an unfortunate mess or failed releases, and yet Mother 3 still came out on the GBA.

Chrono Trigger never really struck me as a game that would have a sequel. PS1's Chrono Cross was....Well I don't really know what it was, but it wasn't "good."

Anyway, the series were not a success because of the platform--it's the other way around. That's why the PS1, and the PS2, were such huge successes. Large, stable third party support for a broad range of titles.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:33 pm

Wrestlemania

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See, if one wants to nitpick, they COULD use Capcom's Mega Man series as an example, because it never fully "took flight" on the next-gen consoles (Personally, I liked Megaman 64) and until the "anniversary" collections... yeah, it was pretty much a dead series no one was really paying much attention to much anymore.

And I thought we were discussing NINTENDO successes! I wouldn't have posted about Final Fantasy if I was just talking about ALL Next-Gen systems, Mr. Ken! I'm not foolish to ignore the fact that FF is... pretty much one of, if not, THE biggest third-party CONSOLE series at the moment (but not a lot of people are apparantly being attracted to the Online ones...). Gamecube DID have Crystal Chronicals though, which was pretty good IMO, but... well... FFIII and FF VIII will always be my favorites.

And for Mother 3? I stated the petition for it on the Smash Bros. topic, I think... The one arguing that people want it to be in English and transported to North America. And Chrono Trigger 64, I ALSO talked about in the Smash Bros. topic (As well as Earthbound 64)... but I assume ye might've read those posts. (I'm not posting THAT rant again!)

However, Off the top of my head, third-person companies? Capcom, Square (Soft, Enix, whatever!)... Rare...... not a lot I can recall unless I go into ones like Ubisoft (assuming they even count, but I'm not sure).

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Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:46 am

fox334

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The most reliable sales number are the Japanese ones. Just for information's sake, here are Media Create's numbers for both the Wii and the DS (those numbers are 99% reliable).

Total Wii sales (as of January 13): 4 908 487

Top ten Wii games (as of the beginning of January):
1. Wii Sports (does not comes whit the Wii in Japan): 2 658 106
2. Wii Play: 2 154 820
3. Mario Party 8: 1 145 000
4. Wii Fit: 1 101 039
5. Super Mario Galaxy: 801 825
6. Wario Wares Smooth Moves: 545 251
7. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess: 506 094
8. Super Paper Mario: 499 639
9. Dragon Quest Swords: 486 222
10. Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games: 468 661
Btw, the eleventh place (Pokemon Battle Revolution) only sold 278 652 copies...

Now for the DS, I will need to have a top 20, becose it sold insanely well in Japan...
The DS itself (Normal plus Lite): 21 536 991
1. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: 5 397 204
2. New Super Mario Bros. : 5 038 171
3. Brain Training 2: 4 806 586
4. Animal Crossing Wild World: 4 542 211
5. Brain Training: 3 609 898
6. Mario Kart DS: 2 908 000
7. English Training: 2 051 037
8. Nintendogs: 1 587 007
9. Common Sense Training: 1 538 618
10. Mario Party DS: 1 526 595
11. Dragon Quest Monster Joker: 1 458 149
12. Big Brain Academy: 1 426 671
13. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2: 1 302 059
14. Tetris DS: 1 152 525
15. Dragon Quest IV (Remake): 1 143 165
16. Tamagotchi DS: 1 110 046
17. Kirby Mousse Attack: 1 060 257
18. Wario Ware Touched!: 1 057 868
19. Super Mario 64 DS: 989 859
20. Love & Berry Collection: 978 611

Oh, and Apollo Justice is ranked at number 40 whit 515 417 units sold.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:41 am

brettfett

Gender: None specified

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:28 am

Posts: 144

Well, I haven't been on in a while. I guess I'll but in something:
I have some new-found love with my Wii. I ended up buying the "zapper" with Link's cross-bow training, and I have to say, it's not bad. I actually like it. I wish Brawl would hurry up. I've had the pre-order since, well, I placed my pre-order when brawl didn't have a name. So I really want it. I'll be using The Gamecube controller anyway, so Melee is basically training.
I do have to say: If you have a wii, buy the zapper. Link's Cross-bow game is like Twilight Crisis, (Time Crisis and Twilight Princess.) Not too much is on the horizon though.....

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:44 am

Wrestlemania

Ready to RAWK!?

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Posts: 9051

I would if I had some more finances, pal! :sadshoe:

Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.

Re: Does the Wii truly Suck? Are Video-Games too mainstream?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:59 am

Ryu

Gender: None specified

Location: I AM BACK, LURKING~

Rank: Donor

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:06 pm

Posts: 4838

Wii... for most of the games that I can't play wth my beau..... why do you only have NDS?!?
My beau is in the States... :butz:

I don't wanna play with anyone else online.... :larry:

Hmmmm... whatever, it is time to ~~fly~~ return~

(7o_o)7 Sprite Arts Game char Deja-vus? Chores AA char in 3D! Ryu ♥ CR!

People should live freely without constraints.
That's how life should be! - Richard Wellington