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4Kids: Where do you stand?
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In a time when anime is practically accepted by the masses beyond Japan, they've toned-down YGO, dumbed-down One Piece, and took full advantage of pushing their cast into the Sonic video games (personal opinion, mind you). And that's only a few of the highlights on their "stellar" track record.
Let's face it: Video gamers have Uwe Boll*, and anime fans have 4Kids.
Ever since their mainstream launch with PKMN (or earlier; this is the farthest I can recall hearing their name in anime), 4Kids has been synonymous with "anime bastardization".
They have twisted some of the best (and I use the term lightly) anime series, most of 'em intended for a teenage audience (or older) into "another kiddie show". They've taken some promising anime titles and dragged them into an early grave, preventing them of achieving the success they truly deserve.
With that said, they do have a few redeeming qualities *gasp!*
First, the voice actors and actresses. I'll just leave it at that (not ALL of 'em deserve it, just some).
Second, the music. Sure, the original soundtrack is more fitting, but the "new OST" actually sounds really good as a standalone album.
The early PKMN tracks, YGO, "DoReMi", and "Mew Mew" are, IMO, pretty good tunes in their own right.
There, I said it.
No, I still don't like 4Kids porting anime to the US, but on a rare occasion, I will defend them (just their music
).*Yeah, I know Uwe has raped video games with his movies, but I've heard his early non-VG works were pretty good. Never seen 'em, though.
What's YOUR personal opinion of the Dahlia of anime distributors?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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I do like some of the voice actors like Eric Stuart, but I don't like some of the stuff they do to the animes.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Dan Green because, let's face it, in a perfect world, EVERYONE would sound like Dan Green. And TMNT because the Ninja Turtles kick ass.
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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dullahan1 wrote:
They raped Kirby! A show intended for younger viewers and they still have to cut out about 99% of it!!! Why??? What has Kirby ever done to them? ;_;
Kirby ate their lunches.
yaminomalex wrote:
People can badmouth 4Kids all they want, the old Pokemon dub will always be one of the highlights of my childhood.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Trust me. Our deep-seated hatred toward 4Kids stems far beyond one "bad anime dub". As I said before, most anime fans see 4Kids as the Uwe Boll of anime.
Hakuro de Killer wrote:
In the respect of TMNT, the only reason they get points for that is because they beat the other companies to the punch. I can guarantee that another company could have done better with similar material to work with. Same with Pokemon. Now One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Kirby were proof of their incompetence as Anime Dubbers and no longer deserve to have their liscense reservations such as "F-Zero Falcon Densetsu" a.k.a. "F-Zero GP Legend". Please just auction them off to Viz, FUNimation, and Toei please oh please!
You couldn't have said it better, Haruko.
Forgot that 4K brought FZero here, probably because of how they raped THAT one.
This is a prime example that changing the soundtrack isn't always a good thing.
Seriously, what were they thinking?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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EliteGamerX wrote:
You couldn't have said it better, Haruko.
That's "Hakuro" to you and everyone else, Mr. EliteGamerX
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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EliteGamerX wrote:
yaminomalex wrote:
People can badmouth 4Kids all they want, the old Pokemon dub will always be one of the highlights of my childhood.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Trust me. Our deep-seated hatred toward 4Kids stems far beyond one "bad anime dub". As I said before, most anime fans see 4Kids as the Uwe Boll of anime.
I'm well aware of that.
*points to screename*
I'm a Yu-Gi-Oh fan, you see.
But, as laughable as the dubs are, I never understood why the people who liked the original just don't stick with the original. I was annoyed with the Yu-Gi-Oh GX dub for the poor script, horrible soundtrack and terrible Americanization, but I soon realized after a few weeks that there was no one is putting a gun to my head and forcing me to watch it. There's no reason to subject yourself to something you don't like.
This is more or less how I feel about all people criticize anime dubs in general.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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yaminomalex wrote:
EliteGamerX wrote:
yaminomalex wrote:
People can badmouth 4Kids all they want, the old Pokemon dub will always be one of the highlights of my childhood.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Their work with TMNT is pretty cool, too. And I like some of their voice actors. I think people just got really butthurt with 4Kids because of the One Piece dub, which I consider to be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Trust me. Our deep-seated hatred toward 4Kids stems far beyond one "bad anime dub". As I said before, most anime fans see 4Kids as the Uwe Boll of anime.
I'm well aware of that.
*points to screename*
I'm a Yu-Gi-Oh fan, you see.
But, as laughable as the dubs are, I never understood why the people who liked the original just don't stick with the original. I was annoyed with the Yu-Gi-Oh GX dub for the poor script, horrible soundtrack and terrible Americanization, but I soon realized after a few weeks that there was no one is putting a gun to my head and forcing me to watch it. There's no reason to subject yourself to something you don't like.
This is more or less how I feel about all people criticize anime dubs in general.
Nobody's putting guns to our heads, but the people who dub projects usually copyright the anime they are dubbing so no one else can dub their own version. This is very difficult to deal with when you would like a good english version of an anime you like. So it's basically cause so much of a stink about it that word reaches 4Kids that people are pissed and they cave in. That's how it happened with One Piece and it worked. I wish I could help with doing something like that for Yu-Gi-Oh!/GX/5Ds and F-Zero Falcon Densetsu.
That's more or less how I feel about people who have the "If we ignore it, maybe it will go away..." attitude.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Also, Japan has done some bad voice acting choices too(See; Narutaru, The Simpsons and Grim adventures), so has every country
Stop complaining.
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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OMFG wrote:
pokemon was taken by pokemon USA
And now the voices are even worse. Ironic, no?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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The 4kids dubs are one of those things that work just FINE for younger kids. That's what the company was made to do. I just wish they chose better series. One Piece was a mistake from the beginning. You can't turn that show into a kids show. You just can't. They tried to fix that problem when it came to Yu-Gi-Oh by not importing the first season, and I'll just say that I was kind of confused when I first started watching it all that time ago. Pokemon, though...I thought they were actually doing okay with it. There was this weird trend going on where the series got a bit more "dumbed down" with each season, but the movies got a bit "smarted up," if that makes any sense (and if I remembered it correctly). I almost wish 4kids had kept with the series.
Other than that, I agree with Bolt Storm. I'm not TOUCHING 4kids.
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NinjAngel wrote:
Yu-Gi-Oh by not importing the first season
That's irrelevant. The 'first season' is the shitty first try at a Yu-Gi-Oh anime that no one liked. It's not in the same continuity as the one we got dubbed.
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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NinjAngel wrote:
One Piece was a mistake from the beginning. You can't turn that show into a kids show.
ONE PIECE WAS ALREADY A KID'S SHOW.
IT IS AIMED AT THE AGES OF 8-12 SAME AS NARUTO.
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Haters usually consist of Nerdy Otaku Fanbrats (Just look at that Phoenix Wright vs 4Kids thing. That was just Pathetic). Lovers are usually consisted of seven to nine year olds.There are exceptions although that is the usual case.
I liked the original Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh dubs along with TMNT. Although the One Piece, Sonic X and Ultimate Muscle dubs sucked.
So yeah. I have to agree with OMFG, who really cares?
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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NinjAngel wrote:
4kids. Ha...ha ha ha ha.
The 4kids dubs are one of those things that work just FINE for younger kids.
The 4kids dubs are one of those things that work just FINE for younger kids.
It's almost like the company is specifically FOR KIDS HA HA HA RAUCOUS LAUGHTER
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Zeronos wrote:
OMFG wrote:
pokemon was taken by pokemon USA
And now the voices are even worse. Ironic, no?
I remember that there was this line similar to "Now, I can use my new Starly to look for Pikachu FROM THE SKY!" Pokémon has really gone down hill.
Same with all the other shows. The first season of Pokémon was the best by far - I own both parts 1 and 2 of it (it was split up..) and I love them by far the most. My favourite episode is Showdown at Dark City and my second favourite is I Choose You. The newest seasons have HORRIBLE voice acting. I guess the nostalgia factor is kicking in, and the original actors are the only ones that sound good.. to me at least. (With the exception of James. I don't remember, but I think they let the first one go and replaced him with a better person.) The games at the time definately resembled the series. You pick a pokemon at Oak's lab, and train it, explore, battle gym leaders, and try to collect the 150 pokemon (then 151 when you add Mew to the mix, 251, 386 and now 493.)
Yu-Gi-Oh! - I remember watching the series. Despite the fact that I was a Seto Kaiba afficionado, I was so wrapped up in the card game and I had realized that the TV show had nothing almost to do with it. (Besides using the same characters and basic things like hit points.) The voice acting kinda sucked too, at least I thought so.
The other shows were never worth watching to me.
4Kids is a hit or miss operation - most of the time their productions suck. but some things are fun to watch when you're bored. They don't constantly put out hit show after hit show..
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Wocky Kitaki wrote:
I'll stay Neutral.
Haters usually consist of Nerdy Otaku Fanbrats (Just look at that Phoenix Wright vs 4Kids thing. That was just Pathetic). Lovers are usually consisted of seven to nine year olds.There are exceptions although that is the usual case.
I liked the original Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh dubs along with TMNT. Although the One Piece, Sonic X and Ultimate Muscle dubs sucked.
So yeah. I have to agree with OMFG, who really cares?
Haters usually consist of Nerdy Otaku Fanbrats (Just look at that Phoenix Wright vs 4Kids thing. That was just Pathetic). Lovers are usually consisted of seven to nine year olds.There are exceptions although that is the usual case.
I liked the original Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh dubs along with TMNT. Although the One Piece, Sonic X and Ultimate Muscle dubs sucked.
So yeah. I have to agree with OMFG, who really cares?
Took the words off of my mouth.
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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One Piece......I never cared about One Piece anyway so whatever.
Anyway, I also think it's really silly that you guys are complaining about a company whose primary audiences consist of little children try to edit programming that's suitable for.......little children to watch. I mean it's obviously inevitable, considering the different moral standards between Japan and the US. It's almost like you guys are complaining about Hamtaro because it's a show for little girls(I love Hamtaro, btw)....
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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1. Those dubs which sucked are still under 4Kids' license, so even if people wanted to, nobody can touch them. This is why no other dubbing companies are attempting to redub series already acquired by 4Kids. If I had my way, though, each 4Kids license would be forfeit and auctioned off to various other dubbing companies like Toei and FUNimation.
2. I am a voice actor myself. Not a professional one yet, but I am hoping for that someday. I would rather not be recruited by 4Kids for my start and therefore I stay away from projects that they are dubbing.
3. 4Kids have butchered more than one of my favorite series and I demand vengeance.
Now, the only reason 4Kids has any positive limelight is because they did successful projects that even an idiot couldn't screw up. If another company beat them to the punch, they could have done it just as good if not better. The reason Pokemon USA's dub sucked was easily because they have never done any kind of dubbing in the past and have no experience except recruiting announcers for the Pokemon games for the N64, GCN, and Wii. Also, I don't think I am alone when I say that the announcers weren't exactly great as they got repetitive really fast.
I have many good reasons for caring about this because I don't want 4Kids to screw up again. The only way that will happen is if 4Kids shuts down. If there is enough negative feedback, then the solution will eventually present itself. I usually give people/groups of people three chances when dealing with screw-ups of a high level. 4Kids's screw-ups (in order of importance to me): One Piece, F-Zero GP Legend, Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.
Very sorry, but I don't tolerate repetitive insolence.
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Hakuro de Killer wrote:
3. 4Kids have butchered more than one of my favorite series and I demand vengeance.
You all heard it here first.
Anime is serious business.
4kids isn't even licensing much anymore. What they do actually license are kids shows no one cares about. They mostly make their own shows now. Besides, why are most of your favorite series childrens cartoons?
One piece is NOT under their license. Ultimate Muscle is better suited in Japanese. No one cares too much about kirby. and Pretty cure is on permanent hold(until the license runs out).
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Last edited by johnny rainbow on Mon May 19, 2008 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Imagine on what they would have done to the harsh and abusive character of Paul.
In fact, Winx Club is also technically a dub. (people complained that compared to the original and the Rai International dub that the script wasn't so materialistic & preppy with better music)
And for anyone who cares, Tokyo Mew Mew.
I think other than Pokemon, Ojamajo Doremi was done decently, but how unfortunate that the dub was ironically short-lived.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
Do you see the black one...or the white?
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
Look at the location
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dullahan1 wrote:
That really sucks too because, not to sound like a fanboy or nothing, but I really did like your Amy voice. I pretty much liked all the voices from the Adventure games. After that.... uh...
after that the franchise was killed. Even Lacey Chabert couldn't save it, much as I love her....
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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EricaP wrote:
4Kids totally stole my job from me. Now I will never be able to voice Amy Rose again! Even worse, I was fired without prior warning!
Allow me to add this to my list of reasons 4Kids doesn't deserve to dub anime.
Also, Mr. OMFG, was it?
First off, One Piece and F-Zero weren't geared towards small children. Pre-Teens and higher, yeah. I admit liking some G and PG-rated anime. So sue me. However, seeing as you aren't pissed, I am guessing you have never watched the 4Kids version of One Piece or, if you have, you have never seen the same episode in the original Japanese version. If you had done this, you would notice several things missing/edited/altered needlessly. First off, they changed guns to squirtguns, edited out cigarettes and cigars, took out any kind of blood and violence you could possibly imagine, and took out several episodes (including entire arcs) and spliced several episodes together.
If you want more proof, please tell me who Laboon, Dorry, Broggy, Ms. Goldenweek, and Monkey D. Garp are without looking for them on the internet. HINT: Monkey D. Garp is NOT Monkey D. Luffy. None of these characters exist in the 4Kids Dub even though they all appeared before even Chopper was recruited.
Also, in the original japanese version (and in the uncut FUNimation version), Zoro (Yes, kids. his name is ZORO, not Zolo) really likes his liquor and Sanji smokes a cigarette, not munching on lolipops. Next, One of Buggy's nameless henchmen who was black in the japanese version, was edited to become a white guy! Why this was done, I have no idea but it shows some racial discrimination right there.
I have so much hate for 4Kids, I would go Kefka on its ass if I could.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
Do you see the black one...or the white?
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Oh, and there are black people in Japan.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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Hakuro de Killer wrote:
More stuff
Personally, I don't really care. Because my life doesn't revolve around cartoons.
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Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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OMFG wrote:
Hakuro de Killer wrote:
More stuff
Personally, I don't really care. Because my life doesn't revolve around cartoons.
Then why argue the point? 4Kids is a horrible dubbing company. That's all I have to say and, if you don't care, please don't challenge my opinion.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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johnny rainbow wrote:
Consider this: Do you really think the average American mother would know about ganguro girls, or even care? She saw something that looked like blackface, and so she complained. To be honest, the Japanese aren't really above using blackface either, so if Jynx wasn't parodying the ganguro look then I wouldn't be TOO surprised. Not saying they're (totally) racist, but they never had to deal with the same type of racial issues as the US have so they don't really care too much.
Oh, and there are black people in Japan.
Oh, and there are black people in Japan.
Thing is, this woman was no soccer mom, she was an ACCLAIMED WRITER.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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Watatata~! wrote:
Thing is, this woman was no soccer mom, she was an ACCLAIMED WRITER.
Sooooo, being an acclaimed writer means she automatically knows a lot about Japan's subculture?
Honestly folks, do you really think Japanese studios create anime for the sake of Americans? Do you think they really expected Suzumiya Haruhi to be a cult hit in the US? No. They didn't have any other country besides their own in mind when creating all these series and movies. Just like Walt Disney made all of his old movies just for American audiences. It just so happened other countries found interest in these animations as well.
This is the same for American companies and anime. 4Kids found interest in all of these children's anime and realized they could profit off them greatly. Of course, the standards of morality between Japan and US are pretty different, not to mention the cultural differences. Anyone who's NOT a total Japanophile will realize that there are some things in certain shows that Americans may find to be offensive and would not be able to handle nearly as well as the Japanese. So they found it necessary to edit out a lot of stuff for the sake of being able to market their shows towards, get this, little kids.
Y'know, I find it pretty funny that despite all the edits 4Kids do on their anime(which are actually about the same as FUNimation's old handling of Dragon Ball Z and DIC's of Sailor Moon, if you ask me), they STILL get complaints from some Conservative folks regarding violent content in their programs.
All this talk about ignorance and raping of anime really gets me thinking: "Do these people who are complaining truly understand WHY 4Kids has to edit these shows, considering their stance and commitment as a television and film distribution company targeted for children of the United States?"
I'm not saying I don't understand you guys at all; I was the same way ten years ago regarding FUNimation and Dragon Ball Z. But the big difference is FUNimation eventually broadened their target audiences to teenagers and young adults. 4Kids will still be....for kids, and if you don't like how they handle shows, then you could always just go to the fansubs.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
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johnny rainbow wrote:
Watatata~! wrote:
Thing is, this woman was no soccer mom, she was an ACCLAIMED WRITER.
Sooooo, being an acclaimed writer means she automatically knows a lot about Japan's subculture?
Honestly folks, do you really think Japanese studios create anime for the sake of Americans? Do you think they really expected Suzumiya Haruhi to be a cult hit in the US? No. They didn't have any other country besides their own in mind when creating all these series and movies. Just like Walt Disney made all of his old movies just for American audiences. It just so happened other countries found interest in these animations as well.
This is the same for American companies and anime. 4Kids found interest in all of these children's anime and realized they could profit off them greatly. Of course, the standards of morality between Japan and US are pretty different, not to mention the cultural differences. Anyone who's NOT a total Japanophile will realize that there are some things in certain shows that Americans may find to be offensive and would not be able to handle nearly as well as the Japanese. So they found it necessary to edit out a lot of stuff for the sake of being able to market their shows towards, get this, little kids.
Y'know, I find it pretty funny that despite all the edits 4Kids do on their anime(which are actually about the same as FUNimation's old handling of Dragon Ball Z and DIC's of Sailor Moon, if you ask me), they STILL get complaints from some Conservative folks regarding violent content in their programs.
All this talk about ignorance and raping of anime really gets me thinking: "Do these people who are complaining truly understand WHY 4Kids has to edit these shows, considering their stance and commitment as a television and film distribution company targeted for children of the United States?"
I'm not saying I don't understand you guys at all; I was the same way ten years ago regarding FUNimation and Dragon Ball Z. But the big difference is FUNimation eventually broadened their target audiences to teenagers and young adults. 4Kids will still be....for kids, and if you don't like how they handle shows, then you could always just go to the fansubs.
Problem is, the fansubs are being hunted down and removed by the companies who have copyright claim to them in the states, so it is hard if not impossible to find fansubs after approx. one week after they are released. I should know. It took me three months of looking to find One Piece fansubs that haven't been shut down yet and I'm still on episode 297 of that series.
Also, to respond to your "Do these people who are complaining truly understand WHY 4Kids has to edit these shows, considering their stance and commitment as a television and film distribution company targeted for children of the United States?" question, I respond with four well picked out words: "Toonami and Adult Swim".
Dear god, if you want children's programming, don't butcher something you think is too much for kids. Get something that is meant for kids. Like Power Rangers or Strawberry Shortcake. If you don't like it, raise the level of content allowed on your stations a bit because I like my anime like I like my novels: unedited and uncut.
Oh, and instead of blaming television and video games for your children's upbringing, how about you troublesome parents try to get involved with your children more. The TV is not a babysitter! Video Games are not nannies! I mean sure, there is minor influence, but nothing influences a child more than their upbringing and their parents/siblings. I wager that every screwed up kid in this world was brought up by either semi-negligent or completely negligent parents or parents that like to smoke, drink, party and/or yell and scream in front of their children.
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but if you want your kids brought up right, do it yourselves because the TV ain't gonna help you.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
The Triumphant Return
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Gunpower, gellatine, dynamite with a laser beam, guaranteed to blow your mind. Anytime.
Re: 4Kids: Where do you stand?
Oi.
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As much as they're not the best quality that anyone can find, one can't deny the remarkable impact they had by simply bringing over Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh, the marketing mega-successes of the late nineties and early two thousands. There was a huge influx of anime after that brought over stateside, and of course, simply bringing it over in the first place introduces others to the fact that other anime exist somewhere out there.
The censorship issue is always at debate, of course. I don't know what to think anymore. Now that anime is becoming a mainstream sort of thing, if there is ever a method of cracking down on fansubs entirely, all that will be left will be the broadcasted versions and uncut DVDs. Marketing techniques.
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