I'm on the road today so I don't know how often I'll be able to get on after this, so it looks like it's time to play my final, uh, ace.

BP doesn't have an item list. He has the neostigmine. For those who haven't played VLR, it's the antidote to the poison in the bracelets that kills you when you break the rules of the game, like when you go through a numbered door you're not supposed to go through. It makes sense that something like that is in the game since there's a bulletproof vest that counters the gun. So SN can't kill BP by pushing him through a door.

More importantly, I know what BP and everyone has because that's my power. I'm the esper. I know what items are behind the numbered doors. (Sorry, Pierre, you didn't play me, I made the trade knowing you had the password.) BP knows what the items are because he has the same power. How likely is it that the "town" has two espers?

Yes, I'm aware that revealing this makes me look really bad as well, but at this point I think my chances of getting out are slim to none anyway, so now I just want the "town" to win and to show everyone I'm right.

BP is Zero, SN can't touch him because of the neostigmine, and there's a good chance he can use it to escape through the number 9 door even if he doesn't have enough points. Whoever gets the gun needs to kill BP if he doesn't give up the neostigmine.

---

i'm willing to believe that, for the sake of insurance, who else has a role? i'm more likely to believe that the players who never obtained items are vanilla

I can't/won't do a full response until I hear back from JM. However, what I'll state now:
1) Yes, I have neostigmine
2) No, I'm not Zero

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Bad Player, that means you have some explaining to do. If you're not Zero, then how did you know what items were behind the doors before they were revealed? It seems unlikely there would be two espers. Highly unlikely.

---

I still need JM, but I guess I can respond to this too. I know this isn't the ideal response, but I can only fight a meta argument with a meta argument, so I'll just say: Sigma and Phi.

---

.

It seems a lot of stuff went down. Well yeah it doesn't really make sense there were two espers but then again this format is ZERO versus 8 so I'd expect him to have quite the advantage to make up for the deficit.

I'm still inclined to think there's people quiet enough that we're overlooking that may be Zero. I'm interested to know why the door number is 26 but whatever.

BP apparently revealed my item though I must have missed that but in any case it's of use now so may as well get it out there. I don't actually know why he didn't suggest it in the calculations if he was dead set on revealing other than I guess he didn't know for sure.

I have the Number [X] bracelet. X being a variable integer that I can set. So essentially I can have an extra any number bracelet. This allows me to go through a door with less people.

For example I could partner up with Nego Lida and Slezak go through the door setting the bracelet to whatever we need to reach 26 and all of Magenta would die (well except BP who would hate us forever). I didn't want to reveal it because of it's potential for misuse in said situations like that as Zero could have done this with door number 5 and wiped out a few people).

Also like NN it allows me to shove someone through a door and kill them. The limitation is (and Ninja neglected to mention this to stay threatening) that once anyone knows you have the bracelet you are immune to it's lethal effects (because who is going to go with you alone, when they know you can be trapped like that?). So Ninja wasted his lethal power the moment he revealed he killed with the bracelet. Unless he's hiding another trick up his sleeve the serial killer is neutralised. Likewise I can't kill anyone anymore with the bracelet. The last limitation on the bracelet is that once a number is set it stays that number. So it's almost one-use-only in it's flexibility.


Revealing it now because for all these door calculations, you should bear in mind you can add an extra any number to make it up. As I'd rather not have BP go through this door. Hell if this were more roleplayable we'd have pinned him down and searched the crap out of him by now ala VLR.

Less people go through = More accountability. Though a gun is a terrifying thing for someone to have.

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@Pierre The door is a q

Yeah I'm just struggling to remember the more mathematical bits of 999.

---

Base-27, the value of 26 is Q

I just checked back in and maaaaan did I flop on this one. Sorry guys. Totally forgot that this was a thing, the whole "It's not a 9, it's a q!" twist.

So now the question becomes: Do we really need our bracelets to total 26, or does the digital root merely need to be 8? I guess based on what people are saying it's the former.

We also need to ensure no penalties, so we need at least one each from {1, 4, 6}, {5, 7, 8}, and {2, 3, 9}

Thus...
2789, 3689, 4589, 4679, 5678,
12689, 13589, 13679, 14579, 23489,
23579, 23678, 24569, 24578, 34568

"Colored" with my own personal biases, of course. Green contains ShameNinja alone (we know he's clear as the SK), yellow contains just Franzise (who claims to be the Esper), lime is ShameNinja and Franzise, orange is BP without Franzise (who Franzise claims to be Zero), and gold is both (a veritable "cage match" it would seem). The uncolored ones would get us through, but would penalize a group.

---

Did...did you remember Bracelet [X]?

---

Well, things certainly fell apart quickly. JM is a massive jerk.


I guess I'll start with the neostigmine. There is only one dose of neostigmine (and multiple doses of poison in each bracelet). It can be used to undo any penalty, except it cannot be used to let Zero go through the 9 door. It's also possible to use it on someone else.

This item is the key to an everyone-but-Zero victory. (I'm assuming the Bomber is basically a regular townie, now that the bomb has been disarmed.) What we need to do this round is have everyone Ally, except Zero's opponent in the AB Game. They Betray Zero, so Zero will have 5 BP, and everyone else has 7/8 BP. Then next round we all Ally, bringing everyone up to 9+ BP, allowing them to escape. The hole is if Zero is in a pair this round, because then Zero's partner this round also wouldn't make it to 9 BP--but they could still escape through the 9 door and survive with the neostigmine. That was how I planned to use it, and why I wanted (and still want) us to figure out who Zero is before we go through the Q door.

As for why I lied about having it... Like I said at the beginning, personal safety. This is a game-warping item. Its effect is basically, "If you have this item, you win." With the luminol and the gun, I figured/knew it was possible to kill people in this game. The person holding neostigmine seemed like the most obvious target. Especially once it was revealed that there was a whole serial killer role. After all, the only one who didn't have to worry about the serial killer murdering them for their item was the serial killer themselves. (Also, I tried very hard not to 'lie.' I know I misled you all, but (a few people picked up on this) I never explicitly stated what my item was.)
That being said, I'm also going to tell you all that I confirmed with JM that you can't kill someone and take their item. Rather, the item only goes up for grabs after the GM announcement of the murder, so if someone still wants to murder me for the neostigmine or something, you'll only have a 1/8 chance of getting it. (Even knowing this, however, I still didn't feel safe enough if I revealed I had the neostigmine.)

I'm willing to give up the neostigmine, but only if everyone agrees on who I give it to. It's too powerful and important to just give to the first person who asks for it.


What I said last night about Franzy/Pierre being Zero/Bomber was... a bluff, basically. I just wanted to lay it on thick to get them to reveal their items. Franzy was hiding the password input device--and who would hide it except Bomber? I didn't know what the Number X Bracelet was, but looking at the items in this game, if any item was going to be a hint towards Zero's identity, it was going to be that. Plus it was pretty suspicious how Pierre was so adamant about refusing to reveal the item.
(I was actually kinda hoping there was some mix-up, or Franzy and Pierre were working together or something, because if the items were swapped, it kinda made sense... Pierre hid the bomb codes, of course he could also hide the input device and be the bomber! If the Number X Bracelet is a hint towards Zero, well, X is the roman numeral for 10, and the digital root of 10 is 1, implying Zero is... the person hiding it, Franzy! Seems like I was off the mark for this one, though.)

That being said, I'm glad Pierre finally revealed what it did... although I'm also kinda disappointed, because it seems there really is no item that gives a hint to Zero's identity. It'd be nice if Pierre handed off the bracelet to someone else for confirmation, but his description seems exactly like what a Number X Bracelet would be, so I'm not that suspicious.


Aaaaaaaaaaand now for the big issue, Zero. Like I said before, I'm not Zero. I was really hoping/betting on Pierre being Zero, and the Number X Bracelet being the hint to Zero's identity, but since it wasn't... I really have no idea.

As for the claims that it's highly unlikely there's multiple roles... I disagree. As I already said before, "Sigma and Phi." I agree with Pierre that it's probably 8v1 now, and I think it wouldn't really make much sense for there to be multiple Bombers or Zeroes or something, I don't see why there can't be multiples of other roles.

I don't have any hard proof I'm not Zero (does anybody?), but three things to consider before you completely decide:
1) If I was Zero, and my power was knowing what items were behind what doors, why would I reveal that? Doing so would just make me look suspicious. (We don't even know if the real Zero knew where each item was.) You could argue that I did it in order to ensure the bomb got disarmed, but I could've done it just as easily without revealing I knew where each item was. Instead of making encoded messages saying exactly where each item was and revealing them, I could've just said "We know for a fact that there's a bomb input device. One of the people hiding their item must therefore be hiding the bomb input device. NN, you should kill people until we get our hands on it." It would've accomplished the same goal without revealing any special knowledge on my part.
2) If I was Zero, why would I pressure Pierre so hard on the basis/assumption that his item is probably a hint towards Zero's identity? If I was Zero, then I would know that either (1) the item isn't a hint towards Zero's identity at all, which would make me look suspicious when it was discovered, or (2) the item is a hint towards Zero's identity, in which case I would want Pierre to keep quiet about it since it would just reveal who I am. So why would I have pushed so hard for him to out it?
3) If I was Zero, why would I have tried to stop everyone from going through the 9 door before we found out Zero's identity? There wasn't much discussion, but it seemed like people were planning on all-Allying this round. That'd get me 7 BP, one round away from victory--why would I make everyone stop and try to figure out who Zero is, especially when I'm (admittedly) probably one of the most suspicious people here?
I don't think there's absolutely no possible answers to these issues, but the explanations I can think of seem kinda unlikely to me, so I hope these issues will at least raise enough doubt so we can get an actual discussion/inquiry going, rather than just flat-out (incorrectly) deciding it's me.

If you guys absolutely don't believe me, there is something I can do to try and prove I'm not Zero, but it'll use up the neostigmine and I can't guarantee it'll actually convince you.

---

Hmmm . . . We can iron out which option is preferable later. Bad Player's text wall seems logical to me, but then, he's misled me before.

We could keep accusing him of being Zero, but really, all that would result is a he said, she said argument, if you catch my meaning. Without absolute proof in either direction, all we'd do is waste time.



That was what was in his encrypted messages, which you said you could not decrypt, which is why you missed it. Thank you for revealing your item now.

I think we need to take a step back. Provide reads and role claim. It's the only way to make progress. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write up my own reads right now. I have homework due and I really gotta grind my way through it. For my role claim, though, I'm vanilla number 9.

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I do think it's suspicious that Franzy would maintain secrecy over the bomb disposal device. Though knowing how taking items from dead bodies now makes me somewhat more relaxed.

However like I said. I messed up on the bomb codes, but I gave them away in the end. It's suspicious but it was simply an error of judgement. In any case the bomber is most likely vanilla now or just about so it doesn't matter what they do now provided we pinpoint zero.



I didn't know how taking items from dead bodies worked at the time. I was thinking if I revealed it a bit someone more sinister than me would off me and claim it as their own before anyone knew what had happened.



I vaguely remember saying this would be the biggest problem, it's like Day 1 of Mafia, there's nothing to go on at all regarding Zero's identity.



How DID you know where items were then? Was it simply guesswork based on the games what item would get you in here?



I don't recall you really implying that my item was a hint towards Zero's Identity. I remember you blatantly claiming that me and Franzy were either the bomber or Zero but no I don't remember you playing the the "That thing reveals Zero" card on me at all. It would make sense for Zero to convince others of another Zero and lynch them though. Much like you did. I'm not sure how much you talked it through with shameninja or if you even have a quick topic for private discussion but you had no guarantee they wouldn't kill us unless he had revealed to you the secret of the bracelet as he tried to hide. Therefore unless you have more to say it seems like you were actively trying to kill us



Whatever, we're all really bad at acting innocent in any case. I don't have a problem with us allying and then stalling on the last one. It's a simple case of by making the heaviest case about Zero you'll seem less likely to be him. After all you already know there's nothing we have that leads to Zero at present so any discussion on the matter would be fruitless and conjecture and lead to confusion on grounds of "well that guy acted suspicious..." when Zero could just be sitting back on the sidelines doing very little. *glances at Cesar* It's Wine in Front of me as far as I see it. Be the most active in uncovering Zero so that when the investigation is inevitably a failure you seem more innocent.

Or it's legit.

It could go either way.

I figure whatever is behind Q, aside from the gun, must give us a little more of a clue.

As for my role I'm a Vanilla 2.

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Yeah, I was asking that and I totally get it now.

Also, there's something I don't get: You were the only one to request to test opening the door and then it immediatelly happened. We've had a public vote on things like that in the past so normally it would have required more people than just one to agree to test something like that.

So that brings me to my hypothesis: you have a funky bracelet and used it to open the door.

Yeah, that's not an ideal response. I doubt there's two innocent espers.



1) The possibility of there being an esper role was revealed in the sign-up thread for this game. You could have just decided to use that to make sure you won't be suspected of being Zero.
2) You knew what item Pierre had already so this point is moot. I see you as trying to make people suspect Pierre and you then changing your mind after Franzise's post conflicting your claim.
3) You were suspected heavily. Had we just gone through the door you would have probably been the number one Zero suspect. So it's obvious you wanted to create a smoke-screen, "trying to find Zero", "trying to focus on finding Zero" so that you wouldn't be suspected anymore.

---

It's strange, yes, but the only one who (presumably) has a motive to hide the input device is the Bomber, but I'm pretty sure Franzy is an Esper because she knew about my neostigmine. And even if Franzy is Bomber, she's still not Zero.


Meh, I don't think you need to be so defensive. I wanted to accuse you because you were hiding the Number X Bracelet, but now...
(I'm not saying you're not Zero, just that I don't think you're significantly more likely than anyone else.)


For the first part, what I said was, we know there's a bomb input device, and there's probably an item that gives a hint to Zero's identity. I don't have either, Nego had a bulletproof vest, and it's not behind door 9--meaning that they're most likely the two items Franzy and Pierre are hiding. So once it was confirmed that Franzy's item was the bomb input device, the supposed Zero hint item would have to be yours.

For the second part... I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say. (I don't have a QT with NN. I haven't discussed anything of substance related to the nonary game with him in private.) Yes, of course Zero wants to convince everyone that someone else is Zero. But the whole reason I was pushing it on you was because you had a hidden item, and I was saying that the item you had was probably a hint towards Zero's identity. If I was Zero, I would've known that the item either (1) wasn't a hint towards Zero's identity at all or (2) was an item that implied I was Zero, so pushing for you to reveal the item/implying you're Zero because of it just... wouldn't have made much sense.
EDIT: I also didn't think he'd actually kill you xP I wanted him to threaten to do it, but I figured you'd give up the item rather than die over it. (Plus, you were hiding the bomb input device and what I thought was going to be the Zero hint item. That'd imply that you were Bomber and Zero, and getting those items was really important to town, so if we had to kill Zero/Bomber to get them... I wasn't trying to kill you, just to get you to reveal your items.)


It still gives Zero 7 BP, which I think is a precarious situation. I don't think we'll be in any better of a situation next round to figure out Zero than we are now, so I think it's best to have this discussion now, when we're all at 5 BP and have no time limit. It seems in the end there weren't any items that give a hint towards Zero's identity, but maybe someone has a role that can help or something.


I don't think there's anything beside the gun.

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That is seriously not something mentioned in my PM. You don't think I wouldn't have tried harder to keep it quiet if saying kept me from being able to kill people?

Anyway, I'm very, very skeptical of there being two non-Zero espers. You can talk about precedent from the game all you want, but from a gameplay standpoint it just seems to make little sense. It's definitely a distinct POSSIBILITY- after all, it'd probably be nice to have a backup role in case I killed the esper early on- but I wouldn't say the probability is all that high, particularly when Zero would definitely have that knowledge. And I could definitely see Zero!BP using this knowledge as a way to try and secure an esper claim down the line.

And I'm honestly not finding BP's arguments all that convincing. I'd argue against them but I feel like everybody else has kind of beaten me to the punch on that front.

From the beginning I've always been more worried about the quieter people because I really didn't think Zero would go out of his way to attract attention, but at the moment it's far more likely that it's between BP and Franzise, and BP definitely looks worse at the moment.

Also, yeah, we're not having BP go through this door. Any other scenario is acceptable to me, but we're not having BP get the gun, given that he's probably the most likely to be Zero out of all of us.

Maybe so that later on you could say "Hey guys, if I were Zero I wouldn't do such and such?" Apparently some people still don't understand why I would have hidden the bomb device and I would have been a lot more likely to say I had it right away if Pierre hadn't given everyone the password including Zero so I'm not going to bother with why who said what, I'm going with facts. The fact is, in a nine-person game that's basically eight versus one, it makes no sense to have two roles on the same "side" that do the exact same thing. The Sigma and Phi argument doesn't work because yes they're both espers, but they have totally different abilities.

Also I'm fine with either of the dark green groups Slezak posted, I don't want the gun and absolutely don't want BP getting a shot at it.

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Well you didn't tell me how it worked or the circumstances of your ability to murder earlier on when I asked. In any case I had a similar item so I figured the same limitations would apply *shrug*.

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...Has this game seriously had that much progress since I was not around?

Anyway,After reading everyone's thoughts I agree that there is probably no more than one innocent esper...However,how come everyone was so convinced that Franzise is the innocent
esper rather than Zero? After all,it's very likely that Zero has a power that lets them know the items behind the doors.Besides,it would not really benefit a normal player to say they're the Esper,since that would make them a target in Zero's eyes.I know that this is based on conjecture but:what if Zero gets to kill someone? A normal player would have no answer for that question,but since now everybody knows who the serial killer is,it would be perfectly safe for Zero to say they're the Esper,since they would have:

a)A way to prove it,since they would know what items each player has.

b)Complete safety,since they know that it will probably not be safe for the real esper to counter-claim them.

So,Franzise,how can we trust that you are really the esper and not actually Zero trying to manipulate everyone against an innocent player?

---

I apologize, that came off as rude and dismissive when I didn't mean for it to at all. All I can say is that wasn't my intent; that's what I get for posting before I have my coffee. Again, I'm really sorry.

Anyway, Franzise is right that really BP's entire case for not being Zero relies on a bunch of WIFOM arguments. But the issue is that, well, there really aren't many arguments that you can make that AREN'T WIFOM unless you have a confirmable role that can't possibly make you Zero, and those are really rare in this game. So it comes down to "Do you think it's likely that BP would have faked these things, or is it more likely to be genuine?" And unless Franzise is Zero (which is a definite possibility, but I definitely feel like Franzise has acted much less shady than BP has pretty much the entire game), I would say that the former is more likely than the latter in this case.

PREDIT: As I said earlier in the post, I definitely think it's possible that Franzise is Zero, and I think it's something we should all keep in mind and not dismiss out of hand. But overall I'd say we probably have less reason to think that BP is Zero than Franzise; Franzise outed themselves as an "Esper" at a time that it makes a lot of sense for the actual esper to do so, and overall they've been acting decently non-suspicious all game. (Them hiding their item is really the most "off" thing they've done, but it doesn't feel like there's much reason for Zero to do that either.)

I just realized we've come to a sort of impasse.

Franzise, BP, and ShameNinja are all in a group.

Let's say we go with 3689. 3 + 6 + 8 + 9 = 26 -> 2 + 6 = [8]

This would get all the solos through along with Nego who is part of a pair.

Franzise, if you don't go through a door, you and BP will automatically ally.

ShameNinja, you then have a bit of a conundrum. If BP is Zero, we'd logically want to hold him back from being able to get through the True [9] Door. HOWEVER, picking Betray will send him and Franzise down to 3 and you up to 8. If what BP is saying is true, Neostigmine can not be used to slip through the True [9] Door with less than 9 BP. Of course, if Franzise is Zero, then the reverse is true. Perhaps picking Betray might not be the worst idea... unless of course NEITHER of them is Zero... but that's starting to seem very unlikely. Hm...

Of couirse, if Franzise really doesn't want to go through Door [q], that's fine. I'm counting on all of you to vote Ally so our plan of an all-but-Zero escape can work, except for ShameNinja, who I feel has an interesting decision to make.

To begin the last leg...
Vote: 3689

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Darnit, messed up again. Rov is the solo in the me/Cesar/Rov group. Sorry. Other than that I think everything else is still true.

---

PLEASE DO NOT VOTE (or make more proposals) UNTIL THIS IS ALL SETTLED

Making groups and rushing through the q door before we've all agreed on a plan and fully heard from everyone is... basically the worst thing we can do right now.


Honestly, I don't think Franzy is Zero. Considering how many vanillas have claimed so far, it seems there aren't that many power roles... so putting in a second of an already existing role doesn't seem too implausible, especially given the characters in VLR.
Also, from what's happened, it seems that Franzy and I technically don't have the exact same role. (...Ofc, that could also be b/c Franzy is Zero. Huh.)


I know my arguments are WIFOM, but... look at all of them. If I was Zero, do you really think I would do 3 separate things, each of which would just make me look more suspicious, when I could have just as easily been silent and let things slide on as they were, just so I could make a bunch of unsubstantiated wifom arguments? I mean, you can answer that question "yes," in which case there's not much more I can do except say that you're wrong.
I still think you're all be too narrow in your thinking in assuming that either me or Franzy has to be Zero, though.

EDIT: It also seems to me like some of you are forgetting that we actually have no idea whatsoever what powers Zero has. Zero doesn't necessarily know what items are behind what doors. (Or even if they do know, that still doesn't necessarily mean Zero is me or Franzy.)



Don't forget this. If you all decide I'm Zero, I'm going to destroy the neostigmine to prove myself, whether you like it or not. If you incorrectly decide I'm Zero, that means the real Zero is going to escape, guaranteeing our loss no matter what--better to give up the neostigmine.

---

How about this?

2(Me)+7(Rov Solo)+9(Lida Solo)+8 (X Bracelet)

Therefore someone from every team goes through and we have less people to get the item. We also avoid BP or Franzise going through.

(Sorry BP it was already made when you posted your "STOP EVERYTHING!" plan).

Plus I really don't see why we can't go through this door then stall for time.
There could be the final piece of the puzzle through there after all. We always have the opportunity to betray-lock ourselves here afterwards until we finish the puzzle.

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Last edited by Pierre on Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You are Lida are on the same team. You don't have anyone from the me/Franzy/NN team.

But again:
Finishing the discussion on Zero is more important than making teams right now.

---

I'm a bit surprised the Bomber hasn't outed him/herself yet. Their gimmick is basically useless now since everyone has the password and someone has the input device. The Bomber claiming would be helpful, wouldn't it?

Also, I'm just the Vanilla [5] as I've said.

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Chances are, though, that it's just the gun behind the #9 door. And if that's the case, we won't have any new information and have a time limit before we figure out our ally-betray plan for this round, which probably should vary depending on who we think is Zero. And (perhaps more importantly) who should get the final item should depend heavily on who we think is Zero, so we should finalize that before anything else.

I mean we could all-ally this round regardless, but as I said earlier, I'm a paranoid person and a firm believer in Murphy's Law, so I'd rather we get this settled (or at least as settled as we can get it at the moment) before we finish things up here.

So, I feel like these are the main questions at the moment:

1. Is BP Zero?
1a. If we're answering yes to that question- how likely is it that BP would act in heavily disadvantageous ways just so that he could make the argument that he's been acting unlike how Zero would act?
2. Is Franzise Zero?
3. If neither of those two are Zero... then who is?

I'm torn on #1. On some level I definitely wouldn't put it past BP, particularly given that he could theoretically have something up his sleeve to compensate for the damage that these choices have done. (This is purely speculative though- I have no idea what that "something" could be.) On the other hand, he's completely right that what he has done thus far does seem to throw suspicion on himself with no real benefit. If I had to pick? I'd say that he's... maybe-probably not Zero, but I'm really not sure.

On #2, Franzise is really not much more suspicious than anybody else at the moment; they've made a couple questionable choices but nothing that really feels like something that Zero in particular would have done.

And in regards to #3... The issue is that if neither of them are Zero I'm not sure what direction to go from here. If I had to guess I'd say it's probably somebody who has taken a good deal of effort to stay under the radar thus far, but there are a few people like that and I wouldn't say that any of them are particularly suspicious.

Yeah,I agree that we should still try to figure out who Zero is before going through the door.I don't think that there is anything that will help us uncover Zero's identity behind that door.Also,I think I have a good reason for not suspecting BP,but before saying more about it,I would like to hear what some other people has to say,and what we are going to decide about what we are doing this round: Are we going to go through the door,or are we just going to try and figure out who Zero is.
Oh,and about figuring out Zero's identity: Franzise,What are the conditions for your role?
Like when you can use it and how.You didn't really tell us much about this,and that just supports my theory that you could be making your role up.

Cut:Think of my post as a response to what you said.

---

Apologies I was looking at bracelet colour ahead of 'teams'.

Though considering the most suspicious people and the serial killer are all on the same team it's always an option /jk



Yeah that could be interesting. It might be productive for the bomber to come forth.


If it eases everyone's mind why not just go through the door and have everyone betray?
We'll be no closer to 'winning' and we'll get the information from whatever is in there.

People are worried about Zero getting the gun I suppose but we've got no concrete proof anyone is Zero so it's a risk either way.

---

There's nothing but the gun behind door q. I imagine Franzy would/will tell you the same thing.
Also, this round shows that we can't necessarily betray-lock forever. (Only 5 people can go through the door max, and there's 6 voting blocks.) What if every round after this only has 1 door?


I hate to admit it as much as you guys, but I don't think there's an "easy path" to Zero. I know it's very easy (and probably tempting) to just say that Zero is me, or possibly Franzy, and be done with it, especially with so little to go on otherwise... But the only path that leads to victory is the correct one, not the easy one.

There's not much to go on, but I'd still like to hear more from people.

Franzy hasn't posted since she claimed; she hasn't gotten a chance to comment on the situation at all.
Rov also hasn't posted since Franzy's claim. He hasn't given any reads or his own claim or anything.
Cesar posted recently, and brought up the possibility of Franzy being Zero. However, he hasn't provided his own reads/claims, and Franzy hasn't gotten to respond to him yet.
Lida said she would provide her reads later, when she has time.
Nego has only posted once since Franzy's claim and... I totally missed it. Oops. Well, Nego still hasn't provided their own reads/claim yet. And Nego, if you want me to respond to the points you made in your post, I will.

I don't think I exaggerate when I say the team we sent through that door could decide who wins this game, which is why I think we really need to take this slow and hear everything from everyone before we make a decision.

EDIT: Okay, Cesar cut me with another post (that I missed ~_~)
Slezak has been number-crunching for the teams, but I don't think he's actually given claims/reads yet.

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Alright, we're stalling for now until we can figure out a plan for eliminating Zero. Fine with me.

Unvote

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Right downtime till everyone gets to comment seems fair.

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We can't do that, anyone who doesn't vote automatically allies and we can't get a rep from each group to vote this time.

Gimme a few minutes to gather my thoughts.

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Of course, sorry that was hastily said.

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I guess you can't really, and I knew that when I claimed, but here's a thought: If BP was really the esper, why didn't he claim to be the esper earlier instead of just making encrypted messages? Because he didn't know what the real esper's power was. Maybe it was a role-check like a detective. Maybe it didn't exist at all. We weren't told the specifics of the roles at the start of the game; we didn't even know for sure there was a serial killer until I got the luminol.

As far as limitations, I know what the items are but not what they do unless I personally have them, and I'm not allowed to tell anyone what they are until someone's claimed them.


I'm aware of that, and it's the perfectly logical choice for SN to betray in this situation. Like I said when I claimed, I figured I had almost no chance of making it out anyway.


Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to not do that on penalty of shooting. There could be a vital bit of information about the neostigmine you didn't mention, and if you destroy it, nobody else can check it to confirm.



I think I got everything? Let me know if I missed anyone.

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Well,that seems like a good response.I think I might be onto something here,but first,I want confirm: Our official decision has been to just wait until we figure Zero out before moving to the
next round,right? I would like to know this as soon as possible,as you will soon see why.

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("The" esper? *groan* not you too...)
Are you suggesting that I made the encrypted messages just to fakeclaim esper? Because then you have it backwards. If I was Zero and wanted to fakeclaim esper but didn't know what esper actually did, I would make a hidden message saying I'm an esper, and then substantiate it with knowledge about items after you claimed, rather than first providing information about items and then...

...

I have another good reason too.

Err... You may have noticed that on the previous page and so, I never explicitly stated which item I had. If you look at my posts on this page and think about the topic of discussion, you might notice something a bit strange... I'd also like to remind you that I said this:
Perhaps an idea may occur to you...
(When I was talking about my item and I said I wasn't going to connect the dots for everyone, that was just me being cute because I didn't want to explicitly state a lie. This time, I legitimately don't think I can say any more though.)


I still believe that we can get an everyone-but-Zero victory. It only makes sense for NN to betray us if he believes one of us is Zero.


I don't want to destroy the neostigmine, but I will if I must.
(And I'm not just 'destroying' the neostigmine. I'm talking about the thing from my quote earlier in this post.)
There also isn't anything about the neostigmine I haven't mentioned. (I'm not sure what else there could be... If you have any ideas/questions/whatever, feel free to ask.)


Yes, I think everyone has agreed to settle down and wait for everyone else to get all their thoughts out and collectively decide on who we think Zero is before we proceed through the q door.

Whatever you have to say, I think now's the time to say it.

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I don't have any other choice,do I?

Alright,: I have the ability to know other player's roles.Basically,I have the power of an esper.

At the beginning of Round 2,I was given the choice to either be able to find out whether a player is a good or bad guy every round or find out their role every even numbered round.I choose the latter.I know the role of two players.

Those are BP and Pierre.

BP is a Esper.That's why I trusted that he wasn't Zero,and why I am so sure that Franzise is.JM told me Pierre was a mirror,but he didn't specify what that power could do.But if it gives him the ability to use other people's powers,which is what his name sounds like,then we're lucky,since,by posting this,I am effectively giving up my role.That's right,my main limitation is that,if I tell people about my powers,I lose them.But that doesn't really matter now,right?

After all,we were sure that either Franzise or Bad Player were lying,and I don't really think there is three people with the same power in this game.And the next question is obvious:

Franzise,it seems like you better come up with a good explanation for this turn of events,or we can consider that this game is over.

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