GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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At the very end, you win the trial by showing the video tape of de Killer to de Killer. Matt recorded that video tape in order to blackmail de Killer. Now here's the contradiction: with what? The only thing that video tape would have proved was that de Killer killed Juan, but de Killer even admitted that himself, and left his card at the crime! So how exactly did that video tape mean anything whatsoever?
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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The tape could not have been used for blackmail, since de Killer admitted to kill Juan.
Plus, de Killer really had no idea if Phoenix was telling the truth about what was on the tape, so why should he have been so quick to trust him?
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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And true, I think Matt admitted that he did want to see Juan suffer.
But it still stands that the reason Matt video taped De Killer doing the deed was so that he could blackmail him. He said that himself. Also, it would show what De Killer looked like to the police. The police figured out that De Killer did the deed; but they don't know who De Killer is. That's why De Killer contacted the court by radio instead of coming to court himself; not only so that the police couldn't arrest him, but because then the police would know what he looked like and would be able to attempt to find him. Matt held a piece of evidence that showed De Killer's identity.
Obviously, the trust code between the assassin and the client is broken; the assassin doesn't reveal who hired him, and the client doesn't tell the police who De Killer is.
Now, why didn't Phoenix and Maya tell the police what De Killer looked like? I don't know. Fear?
But anyway, I believe that's the reasoning behind that.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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And Power's testimony wouldn't be enough to be able
to recognise someone.
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Caelestis wrote:
I guess it does seem strange that De Killer had been so quick to trust Phoenix on that.
And true, I think Matt admitted that he did want to see Juan suffer.
And true, I think Matt admitted that he did want to see Juan suffer.
All Matt had to do was say that was his reason. In fact, Matt could say it was a video tape of something completely different--de Killer didn't know that there was the spy camera in the room.
Quote:
But it still stands that the reason Matt video taped De Killer doing the deed was so that he could blackmail him. He said that himself.
He said that to Phoenix. We know that's the reason Matt made the video, but he still can't be blackmailed with it, and Matt could make up a ton of other stories about the video tape that would be fine.
Quote:
Also, it would show what De Killer looked like to the police. The police figured out that De Killer did the deed; but they don't know who De Killer is. That's why De Killer contacted the court by radio instead of coming to court himself; not only so that the police couldn't arrest him, but because then the police would know what he looked like and would be able to attempt to find him. Matt held a piece of evidence that showed De Killer's identity.
Phoenix, Will, and Pearl all saw de Killer. I'm sure they all saw the stitches in his face, and I'm sure those stitches are a pretty defining trait.
Quote:
Obviously, the trust code between the assassin and the client is broken; the assassin doesn't reveal who hired him, and the client doesn't tell the police who De Killer is.
Now, why didn't Phoenix and Maya tell the police what De Killer looked like? I don't know. Fear?
But anyway, I believe that's the reasoning behind that.
Now, why didn't Phoenix and Maya tell the police what De Killer looked like? I don't know. Fear?
But anyway, I believe that's the reasoning behind that.
They could always tell them afterwards and say wat de Killer looks like. The de Killers are famous assassins; I'm sure the police questioned a ton of people at the party to see if someone could say what he looked like.
I see what you all are saying, and I think what you're saying is right, but that still has all the whole and contradictions of what happened in the game.
Aw well, I don't mind. This just gives me another reason to dislike 2-4.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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and that the stitches were some sort of fastener. And that he took it off to kill Juan. But if it isn't a mask, then that doesn't make as much sence.
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Untaken Fingerprint wrote:
Huh, I always thought that De Killer always wore a Butler mask and that the stitches were some sort of fastener. And that he took it off to kill Juan.
But if it isn't a mask, then that doesn't make as much sence.
and that the stitches were some sort of fastener. And that he took it off to kill Juan. But if it isn't a mask, then that doesn't make as much sence.
(1) Why would he take it off while killing Juan?
(2) Once he killed him and returned to the mansion, wouldn't he probably have switched masks, then, if he wears a mask? After all, Phoenix saw him at the party, and, with Phoenix as Matt's attorney, de Killer should have forseen Phoenix going to the house and switched masks to ensure he didn't recognize him.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Did you believe me when I said that? That is what Phoenix did. He told de Killer he had an incriminating piece of evidence with no proof whatsoever. So why did de Killer believe that Matt was trying to blackmail him with absolutely no proof?
Imagine if, as soon as Matt told Phoenix he was trying to blackmail de Killer, Phoenix contacted de Killer and told him that Matt was blackmailing him. Do you think de Killer would have just believed him right then and there and released Maya? Because that's what Phoenix did, and it makes absolutly no sense.
Neither does the fact that Matt was trying to blackmail de Killer with something that wouldn't harm him in any way....
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
I have photos of you cheating on your wife.
Did you believe me when I said that? That is what Phoenix did. He told de Killer he had an incriminating piece of evidence with no proof whatsoever. So why did de Killer believe that Matt was trying to blackmail him with absolutely no proof?
Imagine if, as soon as Matt told Phoenix he was trying to blackmail de Killer, Phoenix contacted de Killer and told him that Matt was blackmailing him. Do you think de Killer would have just believed him right then and there and released Maya? Because that's what Phoenix did, and it makes absolutly no sense.
Neither does the fact that Matt was trying to blackmail de Killer with something that wouldn't harm him in any way....
Did you believe me when I said that? That is what Phoenix did. He told de Killer he had an incriminating piece of evidence with no proof whatsoever. So why did de Killer believe that Matt was trying to blackmail him with absolutely no proof?
Imagine if, as soon as Matt told Phoenix he was trying to blackmail de Killer, Phoenix contacted de Killer and told him that Matt was blackmailing him. Do you think de Killer would have just believed him right then and there and released Maya? Because that's what Phoenix did, and it makes absolutly no sense.
Neither does the fact that Matt was trying to blackmail de Killer with something that wouldn't harm him in any way....
It makes sense.
Here, Phoenix asks de Killer if Matt told him to show up at a specific time, which I believe de Killer confirms. This is to show that Matt intended to record his actions.
Then Matt tells de Killer to please guard this random mysterious tape with his life.
Not only is he told to guard this innocent little tape, he is ordered to NEVER LOOK AT IT under any circumstances.
Sure, de Killer with all his "client trust" he mistakenly believes is reciprocated would never think to ask why. But once Phoenix told him why, I think he put the pieces together pretty quickly. Come at a certain time? Well, okay, that's not so strange. Guard this tape with your life that you are never allowed to see? Why should Matt care if de Killer watches it? Who is de Killer going to tell? In de Killer's eyes, they're supposed to have established this "trust." So it makes the most sense that something incriminating involving de Killer must be on that tape.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
This is just something I've been wondering.... It seems like a contradiction to me, but I may have overlooked something, or not understood it correctly, or just remembered it wrong.
At the very end, you win the trial by showing the video tape of de Killer to de Killer. Matt recorded that video tape in order to blackmail de Killer. Now here's the contradiction: with what? The only thing that video tape would have proved was that de Killer killed Juan, but de Killer even admitted that himself, and left his card at the crime! So how exactly did that video tape mean anything whatsoever?
At the very end, you win the trial by showing the video tape of de Killer to de Killer. Matt recorded that video tape in order to blackmail de Killer. Now here's the contradiction: with what? The only thing that video tape would have proved was that de Killer killed Juan, but de Killer even admitted that himself, and left his card at the crime! So how exactly did that video tape mean anything whatsoever?
It showed his face. If you're an assassin, do you want a video to be taken of you while you kill? That's like having a witness.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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@Superninfreak: De Killer was at a crowded party, talked to Phoenix, Maya, Will, and Pearl at said party (and to Phoenix at Matt's mansion), and, as Magnus Orion already mentioned, had to wrestle 3 policemen for the tape. I think they know what he looks like.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
@Adrian in Black: Matt had a video of de Killer killing Juan. How is that blackmail? De Killer openly admitted killing Juan, meaning he can't blackmail him with that fact.
It is blackmail since Shelly doesn't make it a point of attaching his face to his work. If he did, the police wouldn't still be searching for a third-generation assassin of a family that's been in business for a hundred years. They would have caught him already, and likely put him to death. This is why he leaves the card. He is not only taking the guilt off of his client, he is doing so without a face.
Quote:
De Killer didn't even know Matt had a hidden camera installed, and Phoenix had no proof about what the video tape was.
It's true de Killer didn't know about the camera in the bear, but he was posing as a butler at the mansion where he was keeping Maya prisoner. In that mansion, there is a room between the living room and the wine cellar--a television room that is FULL of TAPES, and RECORDING EQUIPMENT. Now, considering de Killer is seen in the living room by Phoenix and Pearl, and in the wine cellar by Maya, and again by Maya in the television room, it can be assumed he has passed through there at least twice. It is not such a stretch that he would notice all the equipment and tapes and think that Phoenix was correct in thinking Matt was using some of it to record the assassination.
Quote:
De Killer got a bit OOC: When he really trusts his clients, he didn't even give Matt a chance to explain; Matt probably already had an excuse for it. (Do you really think he would tell de Killer "Here, take this video tape, guard it with your life, and never ever look at it" without an answer for the question "Why?"?)
Matt "probably" had an excuse, huh? Well, it must have been a pretty flimsy one for de Killer to break the contract. Of course, we don't know if Matt gave any reason, or if de Killer even asked why (I'm personally of the opinion that he didn't). All we know is that de Killer was "sternly told" by Matt to not watch the videotape.
Spoiler: Excerpt from game script by Xcarvenger
Phoenix may not have any proof what's on the tape, but his explanation seems to fit anyway. All the things de Killer has seen or experienced are very strong suggestions that it happened that way. All Phoenix did was give him a couple of pushes in the right direction. He's a tricky lawyer like that.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Adrian in black wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
@Adrian in Black: Matt had a video of de Killer killing Juan. How is that blackmail? De Killer openly admitted killing Juan, meaning he can't blackmail him with that fact.
It is blackmail since Shelly doesn't make it a point of attaching his face to his work. If he did, the police wouldn't still be searching for a third-generation assassin of a family that's been in business for a hundred years. They would have caught him already, and likely put him to death. This is why he leaves the card. He is not only taking the guilt off of his client, he is doing so without a face.
Bad Player wrote:
@Superninfreak: De Killer was at a crowded party, talked to Phoenix, Maya, Will, and Pearl at said party (and to Phoenix at Matt's mansion), and, as Magnus Orion already mentioned, had to wrestle 3 policemen for the tape. I think they know what he looks like.
Oh, and in that game script you just posted, it also mentions the struggle with the policemen.
Quote:
Quote:
De Killer didn't even know Matt had a hidden camera installed, and Phoenix had no proof about what the video tape was.
It's true de Killer didn't know about the camera in the bear, but he was posing as a butler at the mansion where he was keeping Maya prisoner. In that mansion, there is a room between the living room and the wine cellar--a television room that is FULL of TAPES, and RECORDING EQUIPMENT. Now, considering de Killer is seen in the living room by Phoenix and Pearl, and in the wine cellar by Maya, and again by Maya in the television room, it can be assumed he has passed through there at least twice. It is not such a stretch that he would notice all the equipment and tapes and think that Phoenix was correct in thinking Matt was using some of it to record the assassination.
Jumping immediately from recording equipment to filming his assassination is a bit of stretch? (Maybe Matt just records every single episode of all his fav shows so he can watch them any time
)Quote:
Quote:
De Killer got a bit OOC: When he really trusts his clients, he didn't even give Matt a chance to explain; Matt probably already had an excuse for it. (Do you really think he would tell de Killer "Here, take this video tape, guard it with your life, and never ever look at it" without an answer for the question "Why?"?)
Matt "probably" had an excuse, huh? Well, it must have been a pretty flimsy one for de Killer to break the contract. Of course, we don't know if Matt gave any reason, or if de Killer even asked why (I'm personally of the opinion that he didn't). All we know is that de Killer was "sternly told" by Matt to not watch the videotape.
I agree with you that de Killer probably didn't ask Matt when Matt told him to do that. But in the trial de Killer didn't even give Matt a chance to defend himself and give an explanation.
Although de Killer was possibly suspicious of Matt, he does value the client/assassin bond. So it seemed strange to me when he listened to Phoenix (whom de Killer knew was up to funny business, cross-examining him when everything he said helped Phoenix's case) so quickly without giving Matt any time to explain.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
I agree with you that de Killer probably didn't ask Matt when Matt told him to do that. But in the trial de Killer didn't even give Matt a chance to defend himself and give an explanation.
Well, Matt fails at excuses, so it would have been obvious that he was lying about his reason anyway. Seriously, he does. You want proof?
That was my toothbrush!(Suuuure, Matt... a $3,800 dollar toothbrush. You know, you do have a motorcycle hanging from your ceiling, you could have said something about that...)
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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And even if he would have failed if given a chance to explain, he still didn't get a chance to explain.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
@Adrian in Black: Matt had a video of de Killer killing Juan. How is that blackmail? De Killer openly admitted killing Juan, meaning he can't blackmail him with that fact.
It is blackmail since Shelly doesn't make it a point of attaching his face to his work. If he did, the police wouldn't still be searching for a third-generation assassin of a family that's been in business for a hundred years. They would have caught him already, and likely put him to death. This is why he leaves the card. He is not only taking the guilt off of his client, he is doing so without a face.
Bad Player wrote:
@Superninfreak: De Killer was at a crowded party, talked to Phoenix, Maya, Will, and Pearl at said party (and to Phoenix at Matt's mansion), and, as Magnus Orion already mentioned, had to wrestle 3 policemen for the tape. I think they know what he looks like.
Oh, and in that game script you just posted, it also mentions the struggle with the policemen.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about under normal circumstances when he's doing the job, he doesn't purposely show his face as "de Killer." When he talked to Phoenix, Maya, etc at the party, he was talking to them as some random bellboy, not an assassin. When he was talking to Phoenix at the mansion, he was talking to him as Matt's butler, not as an assassin. If it weren't for Adrian giving up the Shelly card, no one would have even thought about the name "de Killer" for this case. (Except Phoenix, who seems to have forgotten the name of the guy who kidnapped Maya) In fact, they don't even make the connection between the bellboy/butler and de Killer until Shoe meows on the transmission between the kidnapper and Phoenix.
Of course, things go downhill for de Killer from there. He's got to keep Maya hidden and retrieve the tape while the police keep going after him. Yes, they eventually see his face in the struggle, but he isn't fighting them in order to be seen.
Before Matt gets implicated, de Killer's card is supposed to prove who did the killing without showing the face. The fact that Matt is filming de Killer's face while he's in the act of killing is not only a dirty trick, but a betrayal of the trust they've supposedly established between each other.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
De Killer didn't even know Matt had a hidden camera installed, and Phoenix had no proof about what the video tape was.
It's true de Killer didn't know about the camera in the bear, but he was posing as a butler at the mansion where he was keeping Maya prisoner. In that mansion, there is a room between the living room and the wine cellar--a television room that is FULL of TAPES, and RECORDING EQUIPMENT. Now, considering de Killer is seen in the living room by Phoenix and Pearl, and in the wine cellar by Maya, and again by Maya in the television room, it can be assumed he has passed through there at least twice. It is not such a stretch that he would notice all the equipment and tapes and think that Phoenix was correct in thinking Matt was using some of it to record the assassination.
Jumping immediately from recording equipment to filming his assassination is a bit of stretch? (Maybe Matt just records every single episode of all his fav shows so he can watch them any time
)Why would you need a spy camera to record a television show? *imagines Matt so broke after buying a $3800 toothbrush he can't afford TiVo*
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
De Killer got a bit OOC: When he really trusts his clients, he didn't even give Matt a chance to explain; Matt probably already had an excuse for it. (Do you really think he would tell de Killer "Here, take this video tape, guard it with your life, and never ever look at it" without an answer for the question "Why?"?)
Matt "probably" had an excuse, huh? Well, it must have been a pretty flimsy one for de Killer to break the contract. Of course, we don't know if Matt gave any reason, or if de Killer even asked why (I'm personally of the opinion that he didn't). All we know is that de Killer was "sternly told" by Matt to not watch the videotape.
I agree with you that de Killer probably didn't ask Matt when Matt told him to do that. But in the trial de Killer didn't even give Matt a chance to defend himself and give an explanation.
Although de Killer was possibly suspicious of Matt, he does value the client/assassin bond. So it seemed strange to me when he listened to Phoenix (whom de Killer knew was up to funny business, cross-examining him when everything he said helped Phoenix's case) so quickly without giving Matt any time to explain.
Yeah, that is a little weird. I can only surmise that de Killer didn't think Phoenix was b.s.ing him that time. He wasn't being dragged through testimonies/cross-examinations and being called on his lies. Phoenix instead approached the guy from an entirely different angle and was pretty straightforward with the evidence. I can't confirm the reason de Killer chose to believe Phoenix over Matt, but the other stuff (Matt telling de Killer a specific time and place to show, a mysterious tape he is ordered to protect and never ever watch, the recording equipment in Matt's house) is still strongly suggestive of a betrayal and backs up Phoenix's story quite well.
And aw man, I just realized I've been speaking in defense of an assassin. Is this the part where I start kicking my own ass?
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Superninfreak wrote:
If Matt explained, he would have basically admitted to being Guilty.
...
All right, you win.
@Adrian
1st quote: True, they didn't make the connection until later. Of course, we don't know if the police already knew his face or not. (He comes from a long line of assassins, so he's probably pretty well-known by the police, and if de Killer meets with each and every one of his clients, I'm sure the police have set up a fake meeting with him at least once to try to capture him, or at least discover what he looks like.)
2nd quote: De Killer didn't know Matt had a spy camera. The satellite is for TV!
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
@Adrian
1st quote: True, they didn't make the connection until later. Of course, we don't know if the police already knew his face or not. (He comes from a long line of assassins, so he's probably pretty well-known by the police, and if de Killer meets with each and every one of his clients, I'm sure the police have set up a fake meeting with him at least once to try to capture him, or at least discover what he looks like.)
1st quote: True, they didn't make the connection until later. Of course, we don't know if the police already knew his face or not. (He comes from a long line of assassins, so he's probably pretty well-known by the police, and if de Killer meets with each and every one of his clients, I'm sure the police have set up a fake meeting with him at least once to try to capture him, or at least discover what he looks like.)
This is a possibility, but right now, that is just speculation. If the police set up a fake meeting with him at least once, de Killer doesn't seem to be aware of it, or at least gives no signs of being aware of it. He still finds it safe enough to operate as some random bellboy in public. My point still stands.
Quote:
2nd quote: De Killer didn't know Matt had a spy camera. The satellite is for TV!
Actually, the police found spy camera equipment at Matt's mansion. Remember
made a point of this when talking about Matt and Juan spying on each other, and 
was all OMGWTFITWASINMYPOCKET or something, but 
said it was a different spy camera found at the mansion with Matt's fingerprints all over it.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Adrian in black wrote:
Quote:
2nd quote: De Killer didn't know Matt had a spy camera. The satellite is for TV!
Actually, the police found spy camera equipment at Matt's mansion. Remember
made a point of this when talking about Matt and Juan spying on each other, and was all OMGWTFITWASINMYPOCKET or something, but said it was a different spy camera found at the mansion with Matt's fingerprints all over it.I'm trying to say that de Killer didn't necessarily know it was for recording a feed from a spy camera; for all we know de Killer might have thought it was just to record TV.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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De Killer would've not stood idly by while the Police looked at him, either. He would've tried getting it fast as possible, then running off. Also, he DID take down 3 police officers, remember?
My belief is simple: The video had a clear view of De Killer, which would prove to be disasterous, given that he's an assassin and MUST keep his identity a secret... there ARE flaws in the argument, sure, but it still works.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
I am sure it was related to the fact that they would have seen him on camera, and be able to send it to police worldwide in order to locate him. Sketches only go so far, ese! Heh...
De Killer would've not stood idly by while the Police looked at him, either. He would've tried getting it fast as possible, then running off. Also, he DID take down 3 police officers, remember?
De Killer would've not stood idly by while the Police looked at him, either. He would've tried getting it fast as possible, then running off. Also, he DID take down 3 police officers, remember?
Yeah, he did take down 3 police officers, which gave them the perfect opportunity to see his face. Even if you're moving as fast as possible when trying to take something and run away, chances are you're going to be seen.
but there's really no reason to talk about this any more. Superninfreak figured it out T_T
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Violet wrote:
Did they ever mention a struggle? In the quotes, Phoenix says that he "injured three police officers". Franzy also never directly mentions that they fought with De Killer, only that he came back for it and failed. And we know De Killer is a skilled marksman. He could have injured the police officers from a distance. They wouldn't have needed to see his face then.
He would have to get up close to get the video tape.
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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(now acting in denfense of the game)
De Killer Had to get the video back
The police were at his hideout.
He decided to wear a mask in his attack
Perfectly logical train of events right?
(other half of me acting as prosecution of the game, claiming a contradiction in the events)
Rebutal: Then how would the police have known that it was De Killer?
(Defense)
ack!
Well, do you have any reason the police would know who it was?
Well, um...
Wait.... OBJECTION! If it wasn't De Killer, then who could it have been? Who else knew the location of De Killer's hideout in order to attack the police!(prosecution side)
Ack! And that's what just went through my mind.... Wow I'm fighting with myself... I may be going crazy!
ayup
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
Proof of mask plz.
Er.. Um...
Curses! you called my bluff.
Yeah, its just baseless conjecture
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
Violet wrote:
Did they ever mention a struggle? In the quotes, Phoenix says that he "injured three police officers". Franzy also never directly mentions that they fought with De Killer, only that he came back for it and failed. And we know De Killer is a skilled marksman. He could have injured the police officers from a distance. They wouldn't have needed to see his face then.
He would have to get up close to get the video tape.
True. However, we don't know if he got close at all. Maybe his plan had been to knock out the officers in charge of transporting the tape, then drop in himself to pick it up when no opposition remained. We don't know. Since he only managed to injure the officers, maybe his plan failed in its early stages and he didn't get a chance to get close. I don't have any evidence, but the possibility remains.
And, if he didn't want people to know his face, the mask thing is really common sense. as mentioned, DeKiller is the only one who would care about the tape, besides Engarde, and he's in detention. The police wouldn't have any reason to believe it was anyone else who had tried to get the tape.
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Violet wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Violet wrote:
Did they ever mention a struggle? In the quotes, Phoenix says that he "injured three police officers". Franzy also never directly mentions that they fought with De Killer, only that he came back for it and failed. And we know De Killer is a skilled marksman. He could have injured the police officers from a distance. They wouldn't have needed to see his face then.
He would have to get up close to get the video tape.
True. However, we don't know if he got close at all. Maybe his plan had been to knock out the officers in charge of transporting the tape, then drop in himself to pick it up when no opposition remained. We don't know. Since he only managed to injure the officers, maybe his plan failed in its early stages and he didn't get a chance to get close. I don't have any evidence, but the possibility remains.
I suppose >.>
Quote:
And, if he didn't want people to know his face, the mask thing is really common sense. as mentioned, DeKiller is the only one who would care about the tape, besides Engarde, and he's in detention. The police wouldn't have any reason to believe it was anyone else who had tried to get the tape.
I am going to argue that he does not use a mask. My arguments rests on one assumption: if he uses a mask, he uses masks. We can't prove if he uses a mask or, if he does, how many he has; however, if he's so concerned about his face and uses masks there's no reason for him to only have one. Anyway, I believe he has no masks because he was the same when he was the bellboy and the butler. If he was so concerned and used masks, I'm sure he would've switched masks to avoid being recognized.
So, assuming he doesn't wear a mask, Phoenix knows what De Killer looks like--and has a picture :P ('cause in JFA, profile pics are actual pictures xD)
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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What does it matter if the tape could actually help the police or not? The problem isn't if Matt could use the tape for blackmail or not, it's that he intended too. de Killer is all about loyality and this was obviously not something Matt was going to hold on, I mean the guy was taping the crime and obviously wouldn't care about keeping his mouth shut and might be spreading a bad rep about de killer. I think de Killers reputation as an "honest" assassin is just as important to him as his secrecy.
Whatever the tape could have done, Matt showed he was not going to keep any of his ends of the contract.
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Eleanore wrote:
While I can agree with the arguments about de Killer suddenly believing Phoenix over his client about the video tape...
What does it matter if the tape could actually help the police or not? The problem isn't if Matt could use the tape for blackmail or not, it's that he intended too. de Killer is all about loyality and this was obviously not something Matt was going to hold on, I mean the guy was taping the crime and obviously wouldn't care about keeping his mouth shut and might be spreading a bad rep about de killer. I think de Killers reputation as an "honest" assassin is just as important to him as his secrecy.
Whatever the tape could have done, Matt showed he was not going to keep any of his ends of the contract.
What does it matter if the tape could actually help the police or not? The problem isn't if Matt could use the tape for blackmail or not, it's that he intended too. de Killer is all about loyality and this was obviously not something Matt was going to hold on, I mean the guy was taping the crime and obviously wouldn't care about keeping his mouth shut and might be spreading a bad rep about de killer. I think de Killers reputation as an "honest" assassin is just as important to him as his secrecy.
Whatever the tape could have done, Matt showed he was not going to keep any of his ends of the contract.
It's the fact that De Killer would believe Phoenix that it was for blackmail without giving his client a chance to explain at all, because Matt could have said, "I wanted to see Juan get what was coming to him!" and that could've gotten him off the hook.
Of course, this is all moot, because as Superninfreak pointed out, if Matt had done so there, he would've been found guilty xD
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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He wore gloves to mask his fingerprints though, and a Mask is usually pretty obvious. Perhaps he didn't wear a mask because it would make him stand out? I mean, this game attempts to maintain some amount of realism. So far, we have not seen a mask that is able to fool people into believing that someone was someone else.
Besides,
Spoiler: T&T
And one more thing. We can assume that De Killer was the Bellboy/Butler, but, coincidentally, you actually can't prove that to be the case. There was no proof, till the raid anyway, that those two were actually De Killer. They could just be a highly suspicious innocent.
(while we, the observes KNOW that he was, the AA characters cannot prove it. Except Maya, but by the time De Killer lets her go, they already have the tape!)
In the end, he had no need to hide his face! The reason he masked his fingerprints was so that they wouldn't give away his identity, but he appeared to just be a suspicious bellboy. He probably wasn't expecting Phoenix at the mansion, but he dressed up as a butler incase someone came. After all, Matt had been arrested! WHat if they tried to issue a warrant? So he disguised himself as a butler.
And by mask I meant like a ski mask, not a mask of a person's face.
In conclusion, while I can't prove that he was wearing a mask with the altercation with the police, I can prove that he made attempts to hide his identity and that a mask would be unecessary and even detrimental in all other situations. The mask in the police 'fight' is just the logical extension of these secarnios.
This is probably disjointed because I'm coming up with it as I type.
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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He didn't wear a mask when dealing with Maya in Engarde's mansion. Why would he wear a mask in other times if he didn't then?
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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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Bad Player wrote:
He was the bellboy. They found his uniform.
I already adressed that:
Magnus Orion wrote:
There was no proof, till the raid anyway, that those two were actually De Killer.
It was at that time that they had both the tape and the uniform. Without the tape, it is actually possible to argue that a different bellboy was De Killer. Once again, the tape is an excuse for blackmail.
Bad Player wrote:
He didn't wear a mask when dealing with Maya in Engarde's mansion. Why would he wear a mask in other times if he didn't then?
This is a very good point. However, we must remember what happens if Engarde gets NOT GUILTY in the game.
Miracle never happen (All your base, LOL)
Phoenix, despite his efforts, never sees Maya again.
If I were De Killer, Maya is an important bargaining tool. The reason she is kept alive is so that Phoenix continues to do what you want. However, once you get what you want, Maya becomes a threat. She knows your Identity. Therefore, you eliminate her. He never intended to keep her alive. The only reason he lets her go in the end, (besides Deus Ex Machina), is because her being held hostage was only beneficial to Matt. Now, why he didn't kill her anyway, I don't know. Maybe he has some code of ethics or something to prevent killing except for clients. Maybe he just wanted to spite Matt. Maybe he was thanking Nick for actually letting him know of Matt's betrayal (Having a assassin to blackmail can be a useful thing).
I like to think its the last one.
(If this really is the case, I'm really starting to like De Killer. His personality is extremely interesting and his code of ethics is fascinating!
)
Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)
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He didn't kill her because he IS a man of his word. He only kidnapped Maya to force Phoenix into defending Matt even though Matt was guilty. Once De Killer decided to break his contract with Matt, he did not need to force Phoenix any more, and did not need Maya. But what does that have to do with (a) him wearing a mask and (b) the contradiction we've been discussing in the first place?
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