I don't know if this has been discussed before, but, the character of Victor Kudo from the Third Case seems to talk of Japanese things quite a bit for a game that is localized in the West as being set in Los Angeles, doesn't he?

Having never played the original, I found the character quite amusing. Mainly because he's clearly a parody of those old Japanese nationalist types that can't get over the values of the old Japan. Much like the old-timers we have in the West that can't stop talking about how disgraceful things have become, and how times have changed since the Second World War.

Even his theme-music is clearly inspired by old Enka/Ouendan style music, with that heavy militant marching theme. The way he dresses, noting the one arm free of his gown here also, the way he acts... I mean, this man is a living example of a grouchy old Japanese Oyaji. He's brilliantly done, but I couldn't help but feel sorry for whoever had to translate him into a Western character, over an Eastern one.

Throughout your conversations with him in the English version, he'll mention Japanese food, clothing, ideals... I even recall him saying at one point how he couldn't find work because there wasn't call for Japanese tailors in America, or something along those lines. A lot of his shouting and exclamations in the English version also seem to retain their air of the Japanese spirit, too.

And yet, the character is named Victor Kudo? - Seems kind of odd, he'd be called Victor, is all. Everything about the character is, in essence, Japanese... and even the translators seem to have stuck to that theme, for his character. I mean, hell, they turned "Furio Tigre" into an Italian/Brooklyn Mobster from what was clearly supposed to be an atypical Japanese Yakuza. Then again, they did the same thing with Dee Vasquez in the first Phoenix Wright game.

No way did I ever believe that Dee's cronies were ever supposed to be Mafia Hitmen. You only have to look at them, and I'm a big fan of the Japanese crime genre, myself. Why make such a change to the criminal element.. most notably, changing the Yakuza to the Mafia, which is in some respects, quite insulting to both organizations.. and then chicken out and leave Victor Kudo as a toned down version of an old Japanese nationalist? - It doesn't make much sense, is all.

I'm surprised they didn't totally edit his entire sprite, and have him as some insane war veteran that feeds the birds at the park, and has Vietnam flashbacks that cause him to forget things/have poor memory.

Mmn, actually, I also liked the scenes in which Victor Kudo and Furio Tigre seemed to parody eachother, too. Almost like the old, proud spirit of Japan clashing with the dark, seedy criminal side of it, which some would argue, have no real moral values. I can't explain it well enough, but, it was an element of young and old, and pure and wicked. Although they never had a scene together, since Victor was "hiding in the strawberry" when he was around that one time, the odd, distant connection between them brought a slight smile to my face.

So, the discussion here really is, 'scuse my rambling... I just got the game, and all this stuff is fresh and new to me... is Victor Kudo too Japanese to have been given the ol' localization treatment to the full effect? - And, also, if anyone's played the original Japanese version, what are Victor's lines of dialogue like compared to the English translation? - Amazingly similar, I'd assume.

On a little side note, if anyone could find the authentic quote for one of Victor's lines for me, I'd be grateful. I laughed my ass off during a scene in which he said something about, "Back in the old days, we'd drink the entire coffee to the last drop, eat the cup, and die!" - Or something to that effect. I almost died of gigglefits, reading that, today.

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I actually took him to be a Japanese person living in LA... it was always going to be hard trying to "localise" him given the deep roots.

As for the name, he could have taken it when he moved to make his name more "Westernised" and accepted... after all countless Asians have done this (Bruce Lee anyone?) so it rather fits.

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Vikutoru Kudo >O

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Victor Kudo is awesome.

I thought of his name as a similar thing as .

In other words, he's a weeaboo. A really old weeaboo.

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Yeah, he's just an immigrant from a time when it was common for immigration clerks to rename foreign people whose names are hard to spell or pronounce.

Anybody else assume that, (OoC) his name is a reference to novelist Victor Hugo? Seems similar enough.

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Did somebody say Weea--...~


Along with Mayhem's point on Bruce Lee, I could kind of buy that explanation. Also, the Kudo part of his name seems simple enough to pronounce, whilst keeping that Asian flair of his.

I think you have a very strong point with the Victor Hugo thing. But, as you say, it would definitely have to be an out of character reference. Unless you count the pigeon thing, and the fact he might have a vague similarity to the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Y'know. With those pigeons.

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I took Victor as a Japanese who just came over to America for some odd reason or another. I really enjoyed his character and his music, but I think it was right to kinda Westernize him. Just like with Furio and Dee. The mafia is more around in the west than the Yakuza I think, so why put them in a western translation?
Any Yakuza or Mafia members around, I mean no disrespect. o_o;

-Rufus

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I have no problems with the Westernization, because it feels so right. I was kind of amused for five or ten minutes on how hellish the task most likely was for the localization team to take on the translation of Victor Kudo to the West.

Fair enough, you can do your best to try and translate the Yakuza to suddenly become the Mafia, despite Violetta Cadaverini's Grandfather wearing traditional Japanese clothing in his mugshot, and being the absolute epitome of a Yakuza Oyabun. But, eh... I doubt either organization would be thrilled at the prospect of being tossed around, so idly. Y'know.

Was it ever mentioned that Dee Vasquez was part of the Yakuza/Mafia, or was it a simple case of her paying out a little cash for that extra protection, in her position? - She most definitely had that rich, elegant look of a female Japanese gangster. Someone in a high-up position. You know, with the cigarette holder, and the whole attitude she had? - That woman definitely had some class, if it ever came to her being involved in the criminal underworld. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd have had a huge back tattoo of a Buddha or something, honestly. Maybe even some waist bandaging, underneath that dress.

Tsh, nah. Couldn't be.

I can't recall, since it has been such a long time since I played that third case in the first game, my mind is kind of fuzzy about the whole experience. I just remember becoming extremely excited when she suddenly popped out several menacing hoods to challenge Phoenix Wright. As soon as I clapped eyes on them, I knew they had to be Yakuza, in the original Japanese title.

No way was I falling for the Mafia story, uh-uh.

Furio Tigre, on the other hand. He was one of those power hungry, unpredictable members of an organization. The sort of man that most definitely knew how to sweet-talk everyone else when it came to furthering his position in the criminal underworld. Despite his firey attitude and short fuse, Furio Tigre knew what he was doing, however, he did it in a rather clumsy fashion when he screwed up and got himself into trouble with a higher power in the criminal underworld. That sort of character can translate well to the West, because there's somebody like that in every walk of life. Dee, on the other hand, was a very deep and exhausting person to figure out. A cool customer, who likely wielded more financial power than Furio Tigre, if he was running a shady loan business in a run-down old office building.

I don't exactly know where I'm going with this, but Dee Vasquez and Furio Tigre, despite their criminal connections, are two very different characters. Anybody could've slapped a Brooklyn accent on Furio Tigre and turned him into a Wiseguy, but I very much doubt the same could be said for Dee Vasquez. Even thinking about that, weren't people speculating about how they might have changed the design on Furio Tigre's shirt/jacket? - The huge tiger chomping into a dragon sort of confirms he's of Asian origin. No member of the Mafia would dress with such a gaudy oriental design, surely? - Maybe I'm rambling now.

How did this thread turn into a discussion of the criminal underworld? - We're supposed to be talking about Old Seedy, here! - For the record, I had a feeling the whole Old Seedy thing was a reference to his sexual perversity. Seedy is also a term used for someone who is creepy, and stuff. Y'know, when it comes to sexual encounters with old, horny men.

And as for any members of legitimate business around these forums, Lotta is Italian. But she seems entirely too wired to be involved in anything of that kind.

I mean no disrespect, Don Lotta...

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Thinking about it now, did the game ever say she was apart of the Mafia?? Or did they just say Criminal Organization?? I could have sworn the word Mafia wasn't used at all.

Furio probably should have been changed a little if he wasn't apart of the mafia, but I guess since Victor was Japanese and they barley touched him why touch Furio?

-Rufus

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The only thing I might change on Tigre's shirt is to replace the dragon with a phoenix.

As mentioned elsewhere, Phoenix Wright takes place in an odd sort of alternate future, and the characters are all rather quirky. I have no problem believing that their underworld of organized crime is a wee bit wackier than the real one.

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Victor Kudo's character was plausible. Old perverted Japanese guy who's totally out of his element in LA, I could see that.

But I just could NOT see Tigre being a Brooklyn mafioso. From his skin tone, to his clothes, to his habit of roaring in court, it just didn't match up.

Apparently, kudoi in Japanese means "verbose." Maybe there's some merit to his being a second-generation Japanese in the States, but I can't see him as first-gen (they're kinda, like, dead, last I heard).

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hmm i may be killed for this but i just have to say it
isnt the yakuza a mafia thingie?
or am i confusing yakuza with those people who do exactly the same as the mafia does...just in japan/in a japanese way?

That's a gross oversimplification, but you have the right idea. The organizations are roughly analogous.

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I don't see why they can't just keep Yakuza intact. The game takes place in L.A., I'm pretty sure there's some Yakuza activity that goes on even here in the states. If you trust Hollywood, anyway. (Oh War, why couldn't you have been better...???)

It's the same with the Feys, even. They don't try to hide the fact that they're an Asian family, especially in T&T. So why not give them an Asian surname? They could have just named them "Fei" and it would carry the same meaning, and fit better. Though I wonder if the Japanese creators wouldn't like passing them off as Chinese...

They could have kept the Feys as Japanese and just shortened their surname if they thought it was too hard to relate to. Like, just call them "Sato." They did that with most of the names in Okami (from Ushiwaka to Waka, etc).

I'm glad they localize most of the characters. There's no reason why Phoenix HAS to be Japanese, etc. But I hope that in GS4 some characters in particular keep their original ethnicity.

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Am I the only one who got a sudden mental image of Victor complaining about how things were better in the Japanese version?

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Yes, very roughly. That would be a fair point to simplify things, at least for this current discussion.

As I'm to believe, in basic terms, the Yakuza has roots running far back into history, even as far back as into the Feudal Period of Japan during the Warring States/Warlord Period. I once remember reading somewhere that they are seen as the last of the strictly traditional Japanese families, for instance.

Although, in the West they are often known as the "Japanese Mafia".

Sorry to point this out, but I'm quite amused at how certain people are fearful of this discussion. I'm seeing a lot of, "No disrespect" and "I hope I don't get killed for this". - I'm sure nobody has said anything to upset anyone.

Although, we never know, perhaps a few forum members might have something to hide?

Interestingly enough, there's a movie by Takeshi Kitano titled "Brother", which was a joint American/Japanese production. Very basically, it chronicles the tale of an old Yakuza who is exiled from his group in Japan, and travels to the United States to live out the rest of his fleeting days.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0222851/

In this movie, there's already a small Yakuza group operating within the United States. Of course, after becoming a little stronger and more confident, they try in earnest to take on the Mafia. I don't want to ruin the movie, if anyone is geniunely interested, but it is definitely worth a look. I'm quite a fan of Kitano myself, to be honest.

Then again, one could also put this down to Hollywood speculation.

I kind of agree on the point of the Fey Family. Myself, I remember being quite amused during the second Phoenix Wright game as one of the cases takes place in a small, clearly Japanese, village. If someone is supposed to believe that such a village exists in the United States, even within the deepest mountains, I'm sure a very stern case of suspending disbelief would be in order!

Although, perhaps naïvely, I always considered Fey to be a quite Asian sounding name, in itself. It does bring a smile to my face how characters such as Pearl and Maya walk around the streets of Los Angeles wearing such ridiculous garments, however, perhaps the general public could mistake the two girls for simple cosplayers!

Personally, I have no problem with the English versions. I cannot speak or read Japanese, and I'm lead to believe from the comments of learned fans of the series that the translations are relatively faithful to the original. Although for certain people, those who have a basic understanding of Japanese culture and humour, for instance... a faithful translation would be welcome, this would be of no aid to the more mainstream video-gaming audience.

Making a large assumption on my part, here. I'd assume the majority of this board was either born, raised, or even both, in the West. That being the United States, Europe, Great Britain, and so forth? - Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Here in Great Britain, even we have a hard time understanding some American terms and ideals, yet, American movies and television programmes are astoundingly popular. I could also say the same for certain Japanese elements, movies and video-games being one top seller, but the media input on British television from the United States really outshines anything from Japan, by far.

In most cases, children of my generation even grew up wanting to live the atypical American Dream. My entire childhood consisted of American media, comic books, and the collective obsession drummed into all children with the fast food culture from the United States. That's why there's probably a chain of McDonalds or Starbucks in every city, town, village and airport in the World, by now.

Some points of the localization even feel alien to me, however, this is the culture I grew up with, and the one I am most adept with.

I'd rather have this translation than nothing at all, is the massive point to that whole discussion of Western culture. It's going to make more people feel comfortable enough to play it, in the long run. And they don't have to have much of an interest in Japanese culture to do so, either!

I still don't buy the fact that Maya Fey munches down on burgers, though! - I therefore choose to accept it at face value, so to speak. Before I lead into rambling once again, I would like to briefly note:



Rather than Victor Kudo complaining, I'm quite amazed that the simple discussion of his character has lit some burning flame pertaining to the Spirit of Japan!

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Also, Furio Tigre is not part of any mafia. He's just a blackmailer and a crook, but he's not part of the mafia.

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Baki is quite full of insight, I see :D.

The funny thing is, I can accept the "Japanese village in California" fairly easily. The area I grew up in is very diverse, and we had plenty of different cultures mixing, having their own specialty stores and restaurants grouped together, etc. The idea of a group of Japanese immigrants deciding to just recreate their life in a remote part of a America is only bordering the unlikely to me.

The part that gets me, though, is that they would be a very traditional Japanese family, but NOT have a Japanese surname. Their religion and traditions are very old, and place a huge emphasis on family. So why is their family name not Japanese? That's probably my only real complaint about the localization. If you're not going to hide the fact that they're Japanese spiritualists, let them be Japanese.

Tigre's change I can understand--he kind of boxed them into a corner. It's really difficult to portray a character with a kansai accent in English and not choose a region in the US to base it off of. I can't really think of how I would have translated his dialgue, if the idea was to keep him "Osakan thug, but speaking English." I actually was hoping ahead of time that they would make him from Brooklyn.

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Well, I suppose that providing somebody, or a group of people even, had the financial means to do so, it would be entirely plausible to recreate a small, somewhat primitive Japanese village somewhere in the countryside. Especially if it was brought about by early settlers, for instance.

I remember reading somewhere, once upon a time, that there were Chinese settlers living in the United States during the period of the Old West. I'm no expert on this, but after I brief search of Google, I discovered that a group of Chinese Settlers did once build a temple in Centerville, Idaho. Perhaps this theory of immigrant settlers has some merit, to it?

http://www.id.blm.gov/features/centerville/brief.htm

Honestly, my personal opinion is that the localization merely had to sever as many ties as possible to Japanese culture, to attract the mainstream Western audience. True, perhaps the Fey Family should have been allowed to retain a Japanese family name, but as this was a Western localization, maybe that thought was simply blanked right out.

What doesn't sit right with me, either, on this whole issue of localization is how other video-games released in the West don't seem to have to follow the same rules. I do recall the video-game, another by Capcom, known as Devil Kings in which all the characters in the Western version were simply remodelled as demonic, fictional beings, and in the case of the Japanese original, known as Sengoku Basara, the game was based around the Sengoku Jidai/Warring States/Warlord Period. Even the characters within the game were loosely based on historical figures from that era!

So, if Capcom had to make such a massive change to Sengoku Basara, how come games such as Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors seem to be allowed to retain all of the historical facts from Chinese/Japanese history? - I really don't quite understand it all, this translation business.

It is common knowledge that there is a huge market for Japanese/Asian cinema, animation, video-games and to another extent, comic books within the United States. The fanbase for that particular interest is definitely large, as America seems to hold an infinite amount of festivals and conventions celebrating these Japanese cultural hobbies throughout each year.

Here in the United Kingdom, the same could be said, but on a smaller scale. For instance, our mainstream Sky Digital satellite/cable provider has recently commissioned The Anime Network, which shows Japanese animation from the evening until the early wee hours. Besides that, shows such as Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Dragonball Z have always enjoyed a dedicated fanbase with children and adults alike, here. As is the case for the United States.

So, considering all that, what was the big deal with leaving The Fey Family with a Japanese title, considering that the Asian flair may have been the reason somebody purchased the game in the first place! - I mean, the animation style is clearly Japanese influenced, so what would've been the problem? - I think in this case, it would be best heard from the horse's mouth. But quite honestly, since all three games have established themselves well enough, I don't think it really matters much anymore.

As for Furio Tigre, I was to understand that, myself. Wasn't Lotta Hart also supposedly from Osaka, in the original? - It was pretty obvious, with her mad Southern drawl! - But, I suppose that making Furio Tigre some gangster from the sticks would've only have been effective if he was a Brooklyn, diamond in the rough sort of guy.

It's not as though I hated his translation at all, though, sometimes felt that it took away from the seriousness of his role. Then again, if he was an Osakan, perhaps the same could've been said in that case for a faithful translation. All in all, I'm quite happy that they never changed the design on his lovely, tacky shirt/suit and thick gold chain. That pretty much made the man what he is, after all. You could instantly buy that he would speak with a Brooklyn accent if he was English, merely from appearance and attitude, and I think that is what made me warm to that choice much more so throughout his appearance in the localized version.

With such a choice of shirt design, he probably was an Osakan Wannabe Gangster, however... I'm still always going to see him as a Yakuza, though. If not a very clumsy one with the shortest fuse that ever existed.

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Ugh, Devil Kings. Let us not speak of that travesty! I love seeing the Sengoku period in action. What Capcom did to their localization of that game was nothing short of a crime.

Eventually game makers are going to realize that we like some of this stuff BECAUSE it's Japanese. Or at least, that we can appreciate the Japanese elements and have an interest in them. Some things aren't worth the trouble of covering up.

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Localizing the first game was probably a bigger challenge than the later two. They had to decide 'who' the game was targeted towards and base the localization off of that. Which raises the greatest question:

So who in America would buy a lawyer game?

I'm under the impression they were going for CSI fans, other TV watchers, and more casual gamers. Maybe bookworms too. Anime geeks were probably low on the list. By the second game they had a better idea of who was buying these games and could tweak the localization to reflect that. They recognized that AA fans know who the Fresh Prince is, that they're familiar with silly Internet phrases, etc. But they still had to stay consistent with the first game, so there were places they kinda boxed themselves into a corner for.

SCORPIOOO!

MY LORRRD!

SCORPIOOO!

MY LORRRD!

Mm. I think I've said everything I need to say, regarding that. If I went anywhere else, I think I'd only end up repeating myself, honestly.

I guess there's truly no use in crying over spilt milk. I've learned this the hard way, as I've became older and wiser.

Although, I'd like to truly believe in the wiser part.


Interesting. I believe I read somewhere on these forums, a while back, somebody mentioned that the localization team was different for the second game? - Or at least, the translators were somewhat different, that is. It is true, Phoenix Wright became somewhat of an Internet Meme at some stage, I believe, and the people responsible for the translation/localization of the second game seemed to be fully aware of this.

Of course, this would also seem to suggest that the translation/localization team responsible for the second game were, in themselves, a bunch of anime geeks, as you so kindly put it.

No offence to them, but that would seem the most likely explanation. They, themselves, were a part of a market that this particular game was solely being aimed at. After the success of the first game, they would obviously have done research into the majority of the market for the first title, and done everything within their power to build upon that particular market's interest.

Perhaps I'm wrong on those last points I made, or at least, a few of them I didn't think through too clearly. However, I do recall that Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney recieved a lot of press in the British gaming magazines at least for simply being a lawyer simulation game. As though it was something new and fresh. Something that had, supposedly, never been done before.

The first I ever heard of the game was a long time ago. Even reading those points, I myself gained an interest in the title. I had not the slightest idea that the game had been around for quite some time, for example, as a Gameboy Advance title in Japan. Neither did the people discussing it in these magazines, it seemed. All I recall being interested by was the fact the character designer/artist was responsible for the character design/art in the somewhat obscure 3D Capcom fighter for the Playstation, Rival Schools: United by Fate.

I've always been a fan of fighting games, and especially those that have came from under the wing of Capcom. The same could also be said for scrolling beat 'em ups, another of my personal favourites. When I learned of the involvement of this designer/artist, I sort of jumped onto the bandwagon. I didn't purchase a Nintendo DS until the release of the Nintendo DS-Lite, with which, I got bundled a copy of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. I'd pretty much been obsessed with it since those vague discussions, months and months earlier.

So, that's what got me into the game. Simply put, it was designed, or at least the art was produced, by a familiar source that I had heard of and enjoyed. Not to mention, I'm a fan of Japanese animation/comic books, myself. And of course, the no-brainer was that I have always been a die-hard fan of Capcom since childhood. I've almost always blindly bought into most Capcom titles, and on occasion, have been rather disappointed with a few of them. I won't name names, because that's simply not necessary at this point.

For other people, the draw toward Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney may have been much different. This, however, was my personal taste for the title, and I have stuck by it ever since. I can't speak from the point of view of a mainstream video-gamer, because, my own personal interests, and especially those regarding video-games, are limited to my own personal tastes.

As is with everyone else, a person is entitled to their own likes and dislikes, their own opinions, and of course, they are entitled to make a conscious decision on whether or not they are willing to part with their hard-earned money to purchase a video-game. At that stage, localization and translation have nothing to do with it. From the point of view of a Western video-gamer, who speaks English as their mother tongue, I would rather play through a game I could both audibly understand, and read without having to learn a foreign language for the sole purpose of playing through without resorting to a case of trial and error.

True, I own a few Japanese titles, as I recieved a Japanese Playstation 2 console for Christmas last year from a very doting friend of mine. Almost all of them, I do not have to struggle to play through as they're quite straight-forward beat 'em ups or action/adventure games. For a game series like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, I'm simply glad someone else has translated it into my native language, and have therefore, unintentionally done myself, along with others, a personal service. What else could I possibly say?

It is my personal opinion that Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney was a success in the West, simply because it was seen as something that had never been done before, something you could pick up and play for one minute to one hour and save at any point, something you could travel with to relieve boredom, and of course, the touch-screen buzz of the Nintendo DS handheld at the time really helped it out. Same goes for most games that saw an early release for the Nintendo DS handheld.

Naturally, I would also like to believe that people thoroughly enjoyed the characters, the storyline, and felt the same mixture of emotions and interest that they would with a novel, or a television programme/movie. For me, this was most definitely the point that secured my hard-earned interest in this wonderful series. Nothing too outrageous, nothing too deep, just simple guilty pleasures that this game managed to fulfill for me within the first thirty minutes of playtime.

And of course, if you can attract and interest someone without too much explanation, then you're going to be onto a winner, aren't you? - Sometimes, looking too deeply into the buzz around a video-game doesn't help at all. As human-beings, we are quite fickle people for the most part, so we're only ever going to find interest in one, or many, particular things if we're going to be bought in by them. For instance, a person who has played and enjoyed Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney may have no interest in Japanese culture, whatsoever, as I stated before.

That is how you attract a mainstream audience. You keep things simple.

You aren't trying to confuse and frighten somebody off, you're trying to gain their interest, and custom, with perhaps a few simple, vague sentences of dialogue to describe what you're going to be shelling out your cash for.

Imagine how hard it must be for the people who write that lovely blurb on the back of video-game boxes, eh? - Must be a fantastic job, but I most definitely don't envy them! - Those few crucial sentences that you read upon the back of a box, and that cover that draws your eye to the product in the first place... well, that's definitely the real selling-point for most things, in these fickle and fleeting lives we lead.

Before I destroy everyone's interest even further with these long-winded rambles I've so enjoyed taking lately, all I have to say is, we've secured the release of all four games in the West, by the looks of things.

So, as I see it, the majority of people do not have any gripes with the translation/localization of this product, do they? - And perhaps, it is that level of simplicity that we should all be thankful for. Otherwise, I'm sure that this series we all know and love wouldn't be half to three-quarters as popular if it weren't for the existance of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney in the West.

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Last edited by Baki-Kun on Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

They still haven't localized it yet, that's probably the imprted version. The references used in the imported version is almost unchanged.

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I like that the back of the box for AA1 says the game plays in a "first person perspective." As though people will read that and say "so its leik Halo?"

I agree with Croik.

I actually like Victor Kugo being japanese since he is the only asian character in the domesticated version of Phoenix Wright. My one pet peev I have with anime and games when they go over a total change of localization is when they remove all asian characters in the game to make it "acceptable" to western audience. I mean, I don't have a problem with it as long as they keep some of the more asian-looking characters like Victor Kudo, but what bothers me is that some localization teams assume that asians americans are non existant in the USA. I recall that is the reason why the company who makes the Dectective conan series, changed all the names of the characters in the US release in fear that it is too "ethnic" for non asians. Being asian american of vietnamese descent, I would love to see one or two asian male characters in an american game that doesn't protray them in a negative stereotypical light.

As for Victor Kudo, I thought he was fitting. Being a resident in Cali myself, I have seen ppl like Mr. Kudo in real life who are of asian descent and are hanging out in the parks, feedin birds or doing other things. On saturdays, there are a group of chinese men and women (over 50 I assume,) who would go to Community college and a park nearby to do tai chi. To suggest something that is too ethnic for america seems a bit offensive to me, regardless of ethnic group. I mean, america is a melting pot of different races and cultures, which is can be seen in several states, especially California.

The name "Victor" didn't bother me since he could have been a 2nd or third generation japanese USA person who was probably in an internment camp during WW2 and was probably left to live in Japan for a bit. Or possibly, like some asian elders I know, could have adopted an american name.

Overall, I understand the localization of this game as oppose to games like Devil Kings and Mystical Ninja, where those games seems to either deny the historical references the game has about ancient Japan and instead, make it as some odd alternate universe like Devil Kings or make the characters all chinese like in Mystical Ninja for the snes.

With phoenix wright, I understand why some things have to be changed. For example, if the names were kept as they were, some of the puns in them would be lost in translation. I like how Capcom changed the names as a way to have the puns be read by us western speakers.

However, the setting from Japan to US seems a bit weird, especially in later cases that involves japanese temples and movies. I wished they went with the DIC dubbed version of sailormoon where all the names are changed, but they are still in Japan. I think the european version of Monkey (journey to the west) did the same thing where the setting is the sdame, but the names are changed.

Hopefully, video game companies will learn the same thing as anime distributors whereas in a decade or two, Capcom will release a more faithful translation to Phoenix wright as some sort of special edition, much like how some companies made a more faithful translation to the Akira movie. But I doubt it.

Actually, I don't think I would have been happy at all if they changed the Japanese names to being more wester, but kept them in Japan. That would only then beg the question, "What are all these Westerners doing in Japan?" Not that you don't find Americans and such over there, it just wouldn't make sense if you were in Japan dealing only with non Japanese people.

Phoenix is the player's avatar in a sense - you have to empathise with him a little. So it makes sense that they localize him as being from whatever country the game is being sold in. It's not like Phoenix has any stand out characteristics that prevent him from living in any country. I think it's better that he and the majority of the cast were changed in localization.

But characters like the Feys that are clearly Japanese ought to be kept Japanese. Even in the Japanese version Phoenix finds them a bit strange - it's all right if us Westerners have to get used to the idea, too.

That's really the only thing about the localization that bugs me: I don't mind characters being changed so they're more accessible to their audience, or so the puns make sense, etc. But changing them just because they don't think us Westerners would "get it"? That's just not fair :P

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Entirely true. Capcom knows that weeaboos will buy the game and recognize the Japanese elements no matter how they translate it. But sticking to a strict translation with the game set in Japan would turn off the entire crowd of people who aren't into that. Japanese media is still a niche here, and I think sometimes we think it's a larger market than it actually is becuase the people who like it are so vocal about it and so active in their communities. A hardcore fan's 35 dollars isn't worth more than a casual gamer's 35 dollars who buys the game in a vacuum. From a business perspective, Capcom will always want to maximize the appeal of their games to the widest market possible, and for every one of us there's hundreds of other people they have to please. We feel sometimes like our opinions should carry more weight since the games are so much more dear to us than someone who buys the game, plays one case, and never picks it up again. But unfortunately, those players are the moneymakers in the video game industry.

Well, you know how the Japanese are with their casual racism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QaO8t-Tejk

Then again, the same could be said for every country. The Japanese just seem to have the edge when it comes to stereotyping pretty much every single country under the sun.

Of course, would that mean that the character of Victor Kudo would be the typical Japanese stereotype of themselves?


Mm, well. That's a fair enough point to make. I don't know if I actually said, "Westerners wouldn't get the Fey Family as Japanese nationals!" - If I did, in any way, shape, or form, it was most likely because I got lost in my own train of thought. For that, I apologize.

Of course, the Fey Family have always obviously been of Japanese origin in the Ace Attorney series! - I made brief reference to that point several times myself. Perhaps what I was trying to say is, maybe the Western release of these games has always been put under the light of, "Westerners won't get it!" - And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the same thing happened with Capcom's Devil Kings. - All the historic references, however vague, were changed to make a game that was once loosely based upon Japanese historical fact into a massive work of magical fiction/fantasy.

Of course, the original game itself maintains a lot of fantasy elements, but I suppose that is what makes a video-game based on a historical period more fun for the mainstream audience. Even if you're Japanese, you'd have to be a real die-hard fan of the Warring States period to actually request a game to be entirely factually based around it! - I know there's been a few already, however, people seem to like their history lessons a little flashier, in this new age. It's not like you're going to learn much, but if you do pick up a few new factual tidbits, you should at least be given the right to have fun whilst you're doing it. Especially when it comes to a video-game.

That's what most successful video-games are based on the premise of, after all. Entertainment. - Not to be taken too seriously.

No kid, or even grown-up, wants to play a video-game that is the equivalent of a six hour period of reading a history book. They want a little bang for their buck, to make a tired point. I could namedrop Capcom's Shadow of Rome, here, too. Loosely based on historical fact, but packed with action, gore, and all form of chaotic violence. With a few severed appendages tossed in, for good measure.

Of course, the Ace Attorney series could be seen as reading a book, as the entire game is a text-adventure. However, the game also has a lot of excitement, on a visual level as well as a literary one. Although you're simply pressing a button, or shouting into a small handheld electronic box, you really feel as though you're involved! - And of course, even if the legal system in the game is almost entirely fictional, you suspend disbelief. Merely because you enjoy it enough to believe in it.

You enjoy the title so much, you don't give a toss about the three day rule, and so forth. It's only a video-game, after all. People aren't going to be using the Ace Attorney series as serious, bare-knuckle revision to pass the Bar Exam, for instance. It's fictional entertainment. Pure and simple.

If you ask me, I think the localization team for Ace Attorney would have only truly considered the American public, in the West. It's clearly obvious, as the title is set in Los Angeles, and a lot of the language/slang is atypical of the American way. Even the various characters with different dialect patterns represent those found with the United States, over any other country.

There's a few British slang words tossed in for good measure, and you could argue that Edgeworth is British because of his attire and his vocal tone, but I'd think it was very safe to say that if they broke the American market, they'd have broken every other market, to a degree. America wields a lot of power in the media export industry, after all.

And of course, as I said earlier, who/whomever's decision it was to hide the fact that the Fey Family were originally Japanese would be best to answer to that particular decision, and I'm sure, maybe they already have around the various sites that hold interviews with the Ace Attorney localization team, and so on. Someone may have even dug up the information around the forum here, somewhere.

Obviously, some particular person, or a group of people, thought that Westerners wouldn't get, would be turned away, or would have a problem understanding the Fey Family being referred to as Japanese. Despite the strong amount of evidence still existing in the Western version that only further proves that they are, somebody, or a group of somebodies, made that decision for a reason.

All I can think of right now is, I wonder why? - I've not the slightest clue, even after reading through this entire discussion!

One thing I am sure of, though. As I've said before:


Those purdy Fey girlies sure do dress DANG funny! Yee-haw! =B

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I think you're spot on mainly but will say that I think there's an awful lot of Britishisms in the localised versions of PW compared to other games I've played. I was surprised to be honest because usually it skews much more obviously US and in this case seemed not to. Which is odd mainly because I'm sure Capcom couldn't give a toss about the European market, it being so small and notoriously choosy.

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I have no problem thinking of the Feys as Americans who are in touch with their Japanese heritage.

Also remember that they translated the first one without necessarily planning on translating the second one, and the first one doesn't really paint the Fey family as especially Japanese, just quirky. The second game retcons that a bit, but it would be very off-putting to change Maya's last name in the sequel.

And if "Fei" would have been fine, why isn't "Fey"? It could just be a different transliteration of the same name. And I happen to think that "Fey" is a pretty clever and relevant name.

Finally, like I said about the "mafia," the Phoenix Wright games take place in their own odd little universe. After suspending so much disbelief about other things, the names don't phase me.

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Yeah, same here. I think there was an excellent review I read once back when I was deciding whether to buy PW or not in the first place. It basically said (to paraphrase hugely) "mad as a box of frogs, but you don't notice the lunacy because it's packed with characters you can care about and situations you get hooked on".

I think once you're over the hump in 1:2 of "she channels dead people? Huh? Ooo-kay, of COURSE she does" you're pretty much suspended so far into disbelief that the rest comes easily!

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