I've been thinking about these two cases for a while, and it seems to me that some things just don't add up. Maybe you guys can clarify for me?

For 3-2, was it Luke Atmey's intention all along to set himself up as Mask DeMasque so he could get away with the murder? Given that he prepared a photo of himself in the costume weeks in advance, that's what it seemed like. At one point in the trial, though, I think Phoenix mentions that he wouldn't want it to come out that he was Mask deMasque because it would ruin his reputation as an Ace Detective. If he really cared enough about hiding his status as a blackmailer (and the mastermind behind Mask DeMasque's heists) to kill Bullard, why would he set up an alibi for the killing him that ends up in him being revealed as Mask DeMasque anyway?

I thought he might have been banking on his ace detective shtick to be his alibi (all he has to do then is prove Ron isn't Mask DeMasque) and say that he was at Lordly Tailor's all night watching for Mask DeMasque's arrival. But if that was it, wouldn't it have been easier to fake a photo of himself at Lordly Tailor's instead?

For 3-4, did or didn't Valerie know about the kidnapping plot? I read over the court-records character profiles to make sure, and Terry and Valerie's profiles actually giving contrasting information on whether she knew or not. Her note to talk to Dahlia seems to imply she knew beforehand, especially since she also found Dahlia afterwards and helped her set up fake ID and everything. I was really confused by this part, because the profiles give 3 different possibilities for what happened up on the bridge:

1) Valerie didn't know about the plot. She tried to shoot Terry to save her sister, but it didn't work, and Dahlia was forced to jump in to keep the sapphire.
2) Valerie did know about the plot, and was planning on betraying Terry with Dahlia. She shot him in the arm to make him back off and Dahlia jumped into the river, either because that was a part of their plan or because Terry pushed her.
3) Valerie did know about the plot, and decided to betray them BOTH by shooting Terry and forcing Dahlia to jump into the river.

She helped Dahlia set up a fake ID and everything, so 2 seems the most likely. 3 doesn't make any sense because she did hand the sapphire over to Dahlia. Why would she do that if she wanted to keep it for herself? The thing that doesn't make sense about 2 is Dahlia jumping into the river. Faking her death by jumping 40 feet into a roaring river could very well turn into a REAL death, and I can't see Dahlia taking a chance like that.

...So, sorry about the long post. Can you guys make head or tail of this?

Last edited by Nyang on Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Might wanna spoiler tag the topic name.

As for 3-4, Dahlia jumped in because she wanted the jewel for herself, and I CAN see her taking a risk like that.

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Okay, fixed.

About Dahlia jumping in to fake her death, was it a show for Terry to see then? Since Valerie was able to set her up with a fake ID, they probably could have done that whether she jumped in or not. If they just did it so Terry would testify about it happening like that...well, the court didn't believe him about the kidnapping plot anyway, they might not have believed it if he said Dahlia was still alive.

It was to get Terry convicted. Hence Valerie shooting him.

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She did take risks in both of those cases, but consider the alternative if she didn't, she could be caught and sentenced to death, so she killed rather than be killed. In the case of the plot, she's risking her life for additional money (that she wouldn't be able to get anyway, since Valerie doesn' seem like she'd be the type to let her cut go after she found Dahlia, who needed her to create and maintain a fake ID anyway.

I adctually would suspect option 3, as its the only one that makes logical sense as to why Dahlia would take such a huge risk for an apparent 0 gain. Also, if you look at the way the note is phrased, Valerie seems to assume Dahlia will do as she says, implying Valerie has some kind of leverage over her. Remeber also that, after Terry is disabled by the wound in his shoulder, Valerie is the only one armed, and so could simply force Dahlia to give up the jewel at gunpoint, resulting in Dahlia jumping into the river, both to keep the jewel and escape death. Planning to jump into the river makes no sense for either Valerie to instruct Dahlia to do or Dahlia to plan on her own, given the supposed survival/body recovery rate.

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Valerie knew about the plot. She and Dahlia planned it all together. The only part Terry was in on was the fake kidnapping. He believed Valerie had betrayed him and Dahlia because she shot him and Dahlia fell to her death apparently. In reality Valerie and Dahlia had that part planned out too, which we know because it was with Valerie's help that she got a new identity (shown by the fact that Valerie knew she was alive and how to contact her). The point was for them to steal the jewel and I assume they split the money. They cut Terry out of it by framing him for murder and got away with the jewel because Dahlia had it when she "fell", so it was lost. Valerie was then killed when she felt guilty later and insisted to Dahlia that they had to tell the truth about what happened. Terry had to see Dahlia "die", otherwise how could there be a murder trial. He never denied her death, just that he pushed her, and was shocked to see her in court.

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The inconsistency in the profiles is my fault :B. At one point I wasn't sure myself if Valerie knew or not. But after playing it again, it's clear Valerie knew all along, and she and Dahlia double crossed Terry.

As for 3-2, well... the one question you can never ask about T&T is "Wouldn't it have been easier if...?" (XD)

But seriously, I think Atmey was hoping he wouldn't get nailed for either crime. But in case he did, he would still have his being Mask De Masque as his backup alibi. He really couldn't have predicted that Phoenix would blunder through both his excuses.

At the same time, though, I think part of Atmey DID want to be uncovered, as Mas De Masque was so popular, and only by revealing himself could he really show to the public the extent of his "genius."

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"Revealing himself"? Did you have to phrase it like that? :p

I really think that he was only hiding his blackmailer status just so he could get caught as Mask De Mask. I mean he wanted to be that guy. Even if it were to go to jail, his image was everything to him and he didn't care how the rest of his life went, just what people thought about him.
That's the way i thought of it at least.

Yes. Yes, she did. If that one fanart site was any indication, absolutely, positively, 100% yes. He is "uncovered"! "Revealed"! Covered in sticky fluids!

At any rate, what I'm getting from you guys for case 3-4 is that... (Numbered lists ho!)

1. Valerie knew about the whole thing and was planning on betraying Terry with Dahlia.
2. She shoots Terry in order to make him back off from Dahlia.
3. Dahlia jumps into the river, either to convict Terry of murder, to get away, or to make her faked death more convincing.

I think given Terry's credibility (which is apparently zero, because everyone took Valerie's word over his about the kidnapping), it wasn't really necessary for Dahlia to do something so drastic to fake her death. But PW3 isn't exactly big on making sense, so I've got nothing.

For 3-2, it seems like they did the faked picture of Mask DeMasque just to keep the player guessing about who Mask DeMasque really is. As interesting as that angle was, it didn't really help me make sense of Luke Atmey's motivations. It just seemed that one second, he cared enough about his double identity to kill, and then the next he was using it as a backup alibi. Maybe he just really, really didn't want to hand over the red diamond. Unless you're saying there's a difference between a double identity as Mask DeMasque/Ace Detective and Blackmailer Mastermind behind Mask Demasque/Ace Detective?