Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:56 pm

Mewd

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I recently finished the game, and that was a hoot and load of fun, but one thing is bothering me about a character's motivation:

Spoiler:

Still, the fifth case was ludicrously well done considering how complicated it was, and a very satisfying conclusion. It managed to tell up a lot of loose ends I didn't expect it to and utilize a lot of plot threads to give the trilogy a very cohesive climax. Fancy.

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:27 am

Miss Prince

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I believe the game states that Iris's role in the plan was indeed to take the fall if things went wrong. She created a new crime scene so that if suspicion fell anywhere, it was on her. Now, she didn't want to be found guilty if she could help it, but if push came to shove that's what was supposed to happen.

Why? I'd say guilt -- perhaps a combination of a desire to atone for her sister's sins and to make up for her weakness earlier in life (chickening out of the kidnapping plan, not managing to get the bottle from Phoenix, etc.).

That help?

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:41 am

Mia_Fey

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I think its pretty clear that Iris was trying to frame herself. It was always her role to take the fall if things went wrong, she leaves fingerprints all over the "murder weapon," leaves her bloody clothes folded in her room, and doesn't even try to get away or clean up after herself knowing that Bikini had seen her. Remember that Iris had time while Bikini was unconscious to try to clean things up, but instead she leaves all that incriminating evidence laying around and waited in her room to be arrested. She also made little effort to help Edgeworth with his investigation to the point that he reminds her that he's trying to help her and asks her to cooperate more. I assumed that she did so out of guilt for what her sister had done. She mentions how she had been trying for the last five years to repent for her sins. I don't recall Iris ever trying to set up an alibi for herself, but perhaps I missed it. She states that she was in her room until the murder occurred (which is true), but that doesn't mean that she couldn't have killed Misty. That only covers her for before the murder, not during or after. Besides, she couldn't prove it.

Bikini did get very upset about Elise's death and talked about what an important visitor she was to an extent that seemed extreme if she hadn't known. If you present Elise's profile to Iris, she will also talk about how Bikini told her that she wasn't to upset Elise.

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Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:54 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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I'm not sure it's as simple as feeling guilty for Dahlia's crimes. Atoning for sins is one thing, but taking the rap for murder? We know of four killers who were given the death sentence, and the others are never heard from again. If Iris was willing to go that far to atone, why didn't she just commit suicide?

Besides, if she was content to be found guilty, she wouldn't have accepted Edgeworth's defense. I think it's more that Iris didn't want to take the fall, but she felt obligated to do what Godot wanted.

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:06 am

Mia_Fey

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Well I think that she may well have only accepted Edgeworth's defense because it was at Phoenix's request. She doesn't ask for his help and only accepts after Edgeworth has clearly stated that Phoenix asked him to take care of her (and states something like if Phoenix trusted him that much then she would too). She had framed herself pretty thoroughly and the evidence against her was very strong (weapon covered with her fingerprints, bloody clothes, and a witness with more of a reason to protect her then hurt her), so she probably believed that it wouldn't matter if Edgeworth tried to defend her and if that was what what Phoenix wanted then at least she could give him the satisfaction of knowing that he tried to save her. There isn't any doubt that taking the rap for murder is extreme, but her feelings of guilt were pretty extreme (she had spent the last five years trying to make up for her perceived sins and yet Iris still seems to have felt guilty about what had happened in the past) and she had promised Godot that she would take the fall if needed.

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Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:20 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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Oh, I don't doubt that part of it was guilt, but Godot must have known about why she felt that way. You can't exactly go up to someone and say "Hey, I need someone who might need to take a death penalty for me, you interested?"

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:33 am

Mia_Fey

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I absolutely agree with that. Godot had to know about Iris's connection to Dahlia or there would be no reason for him to believe that she would go along with his plan. I also find the possibility that he had discovered the connection between the sisters extremely believable when we remember that he had been investigating Dahlia before his poisoning, that the fake kidnapping was done extremely close to Iris's home, and that Iris bears a striking resemblance Dahlia. Besides, we know the Prosecutor's Office has some excellent resources.

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Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:53 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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Well, I can't agree on that last point; even Edgeworth and his 133+ prosecutor skillz that let him set Franziska up as the prosecution sometime during his conversation with Gumshoe in Hazakura Courtyard couldn't find any information on Iris.

But that's just me being nitpicky. Point is, I'm pretty sure Iris wouldn't have gone along with The Plan of Fail™ if Godot hadn't talked her into it.

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:07 pm

Sebastian Stark

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My belief is that Iris was obviously having much conflict over the last few years, and when the Plan was proposed to her by Godot, it was HER who would have taken it upon herself to take the fall because of how much she felt that she had failed those she loved most - she still did love her sister, despite all of her evilnesses...and She was still in love with Phoenix despite trying her best not to let him know who she had 'been' upon his arrival at the hazakura temple.

Besides - There would be no possible way to avoid spirit channeling LOOKING bad if the truth 'came out' as it actually was, so the only thing that may have been left to them would probably have been somebody with no Spirit channeling ability taking the fall, and thus maintaining face in the public eye...after all, they were trying to rebuild their 'good' image after the DL6 incident and another murder related to it's darker sides would have destroyed that.

Hence, the creation of a scene that at FIRST glance, was merely a symbolic Ritualistic murder apparently performed by Iris, and not the TRUE murder scene of the stabbed, 'possessed' Misty Fey who had been stabbed by a well-intentioned third party.

There may have been better methods, true, but this is how it ended up - and, inevitably, it must have made sense to the writers when being scripted at the time...but any story can fall apart if looked at closely with a microscope for long enough!

~Beware of the Shark - He'll bite!~

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:10 pm

EricaP

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It's called MORGAN! We know MORGAN was the reasoning behind everything! BWAHAAHAH! MORGAN! We know that MORGAN has some issues with the clan and daughters and cousins and sisters and fake ditz's...

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:11 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

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...fake ditzes? :nick-sweat:

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:21 pm

NinjaMonkey

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I think she was refering to Ini Miney (since she's really Mimi in disguise).

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:27 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

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Oh.

But she didn't really have "issues" with Mimi until she was found out.

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:47 am

animagriever

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Not sure if it belongs in this thread but I find it confusing when Dahlia (channeled through Maya) swaps places with Iris in the cave. I mean was there a struggle or did she listen to everything Dahlia tells her?

Also, is it Godot that picks Maya up after she falls unconscious, after the murder, and cleans her up and dumps her in the training room?

Thanks for the answers guys/gals.

Credit to Purple Angel

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:02 am

Litral

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I'm pretty sure the answer to the second one is yes; it was in Maya's testimony, I believe. To the first one, no idea... it's probably more likely that Dahila, seeing her come into the cavern, sneaked out, shut the door on her, and locked it.

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:38 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

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First question is up for debate; the game never really makes it clear. I'd like to think Iris would have put up some sort of resistance, but she's much more of a pacifist than her twin, and Dahlia had the element of suprise anyway; Iris was expecting to find Maya in the cave (I guess technically she did, but you know what I mean. :yogi:

)

Re: Question about case 5 after the fact (spoileriffic)

Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:58 am

Fumei

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animagriever wrote:

Not sure if it belongs in this thread but I find it confusing when Dahlia (channeled through Maya) swaps places with Iris in the cave. I mean was there a struggle or did she listen to everything Dahlia tells her?

Also, is it Godot that picks Maya up after she falls unconscious, after the murder, and cleans her up and dumps her in the training room?

Thanks for the answers guys/gals.

Like Franzise says, Dahlia switches places with Iris, but the game never makes it clear HOW this was done. Basically, it boils down to this: Dahlia waits in the cavern, sees Iris, and switches places with her. I'd like to think there was a struggle, but we don't truly know.

I'm going to believe that Iris was knocked out for this half of the game, where Dahlia locks her up. Why would Iris stay quiet and let her sister roam free when she was so worried about Maya?

Of course, it's up for debate whether she helped her sister WILLINGLY or NOT, but I believe the latter.