Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Ac#e to the rescue!!! Avvy be Leeling.
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Acro.
*shot by everyone*
.... and Pearl, of course. She WAS an "accomplice" in a way...
*shot by everyone*
.... and Pearl, of course. She WAS an "accomplice" in a way...
I agree about Acro. Think about it.
Spoiler: Kinda long.
...So, yeah. I vote for Acro. His life just sucks right now.
Spoiler: Very short.
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Guess who's druuuuunk~!
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dotsdfe wrote:
Spoiler: Extra tag just in case
Yes! Finally, someone who agrees with me on Ini's life, I thought it was extreemly sad!!!
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Deception&&contradiction
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
♥Klavier and Ema fan forever ♥
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Spoiler:
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Scientifically speaking...
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dotsdfe wrote:
Spoiler: Others
If we're talking non-villains I agree completely on the Franziska part, and Adrian to a point. Honestly I'm ready to name Franziska as my top character who I felt bad for. :/ Oh, and Pearls.
Villains though? Godot... though I honestly don't consider him a villain. And Zak, though again, not really a villain.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
♥Klavier and Ema fan forever ♥
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Million thanks for making this epic siggy, Vickinator! and another million thanks to Nadini for making that awesome avatar
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♥Klavier and Ema♥
Last edited by moon_pie! on Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Good 'til the last drop.
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. Spoiler:
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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When he wakes up and hears that Mia is dead, everything fell apart, and his perceptions of 5/6 years of narrowed tunnel vision- only his thoughts- were all he had to go by to connect to the world- no family, friends, or anyone to remind him who he is. When he commits murder, he feels as though he's in a dream. The part of him that governed his impulses in the past had been battered. He could no longer connect to any other person, and doesn't realise therefore how irrational his actions are, thus why he fervently blamed Phoenix, that is until Phoenix confronts him on the last stand. Only then does he regain that part of himself that tells him how wrong he's been, but by then it's too late.
Tl;dr: I wouldn't class him as a villain but yes, as an anti-hero, as he was a very flawed person. His intentions were benign, but his perceptions were so warped he didn't realise how blindly selfish he was- he thoroughly believed he was doing everything for Mia. Why wouldn't he- he had no ideas to the contrary. Real villains, however, know exactly how selfish they are. I'd also say he is one of the saddest characters in the game. You lose everything, and then at the moment of truth, when you regain a vital part of yourself, it's all over.
Now, what puzzles me exactly is why Maya's mother HERSELF went along with Godot's frenzied plan, when she -knew- that Maya would be in danger. Isn't this the very last thing a mother would do? She could have had him tell Maya strictly to not go to Hazakurain- her thoughts were strongly about Maya. Therefore she should have had no problem in foiling the plot without putting her only daughter in peril.
Last edited by Jacks on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
I am Kasu, hear me roar
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And Acro. I never had much sympathy for Godot. Don't flame, he just annoyed me.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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Godot's a tough cookie, though. I have more respect for him than I do for Franziska. Edgeworth went to her at the end of JfA, tried to talk her out of the person she is, but she vehemently denied the possibility of changing her selfish ways. Edgeworth took the opportunity to confront himself, whereas she didn't. Godot believed he WASN'T the selfish one, but when he WAS confronted he twigged, confessed all, accepted the change and even befriended Phoenix. It was too bad for him that he would not have the chance to live the change.
Last edited by Jacks on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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And as far as Misty goes, the only thing I can come up with as far as her actions is she had this whole "death before dishonor" thing going on. Fading into obscurity after DL-6, she would rather sacrifice herself than reveal her identity to the family she shamed.
Not that I don't still think she's a dumb bitch, but yeah.
Also, we don't really need the spoiler tags, the whole topic is marked for spoilers.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
I don't think insanity exempts someone from being considered a villian. .
.Even so, I don't consider Godot a villain. He's a flawed character, but not flawed -enough- to be a villain IMO.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
He directly opposed the hero of the series for pretty much the entire game and orchestrated the incident at Hazakura just so he could make himself out to be a 'savior'. I...don't know what else he could do to make himself more of a villian.
Well, consider it this way. He wasn't making himself out to be a saviour for show or for sympathy, he doesn't give jack about that. He actually believed he -was- making himself a saviour for Mia's sake, yet only realised his folly later on. And besides, Misty no doubt supported the situation in the first place, in fact she was willing to die before facing her daughter, right? She unknowingly reinforced that 'ideal' that Godot would -have- to concoct a dangerous plan like this to save Maya, because she was more than happy to go along with the plot herself! It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suggest that it was HER idea in the first place, either.
Remember also what Edgeworth said in the Matt Engarde case. That there weren't any 'heroes' or 'villains' in the courtroom, that they were only human. So facing off against Phoenix for the most part of the game doesn't make him a villain, either. He had his own agenda for facing Phoenix, and that was to see what kind of man he was for himself. A similar reason to why Phoenix became a defense attorney in the first place, right? His reason was to face Edgeworth.
"villain: # a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately". Think about it - he just doesn't fit the bill.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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And again, being deluded or insane or misguided does not mean someone isn't a villian, nor does the fact that some people are willing to go along with his plans.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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Second, I'll say it again: being deluded through whatever reason doesn't make him a villain. His beliefs were that he wasn't selfish, but yes he DOES find that out later and change. Whatever triggered his delusions were calmed as soon as Phoenix faced him the last time. If he were a clear-cut true villain, he'd set out to kill Phoenix for his revenge, not see what kind of a man he was. So revenge can't be the only thing driving him, really.
Thirdly, Misty going along with his plan would beg suggestion that she's as deluded as he is. So by that logic, one would say that she, too, is a 'villain'.
Tl;dr: Nothing's going to convince me he's a villain, and I'm done here
I was just saying what I thought.. geez.
Last edited by Jacks on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
I don't even get a hug?
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*ahem* No, Karma's not tragic, he's perfect. YOGI is tragic. I just can't really take pity on Ini as much, if you ask me.
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Jacks wrote:
But even so, this isn't one of those clear cut games like Sonic the hero, Robotnik the villain, so whatever his 'rhetoric' was certainly applies to the rest of the game. Because let's face it, the storyline's more complicated than a Rubik's cube. Of course they aren't really human, they're pixels. But we're talking about storyline as if it WAS real, correct? We've been doing this since the beginning of the topic. So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove by saying 'they're not real'.
Second, I'll say it again: being deluded through whatever reason doesn't make him a villain. His beliefs were that he wasn't selfish, but yes he DOES find that out later and change. Whatever triggered his delusions were calmed as soon as Phoenix faced him the last time. If he were a clear-cut true villain, he'd set out to kill Phoenix for his revenge, not see what kind of a man he was. So revenge can't be the only thing driving him, really.
Thirdly, Misty going along with his plan would beg suggestion that she's as deluded as he is. So by that logic, one would say that she, too, is a 'villain'.
Tl;dr: Nothing's going to convince me he's a villain, and I'm done here I was just saying what I thought.. geez.
Second, I'll say it again: being deluded through whatever reason doesn't make him a villain. His beliefs were that he wasn't selfish, but yes he DOES find that out later and change. Whatever triggered his delusions were calmed as soon as Phoenix faced him the last time. If he were a clear-cut true villain, he'd set out to kill Phoenix for his revenge, not see what kind of a man he was. So revenge can't be the only thing driving him, really.
Thirdly, Misty going along with his plan would beg suggestion that she's as deluded as he is. So by that logic, one would say that she, too, is a 'villain'.
Tl;dr: Nothing's going to convince me he's a villain, and I'm done here
I was just saying what I thought.. geez.Edgeworth was speaking as a character in the Ace Attorney world. In that world, as in real life, there aren't 'heroes and villians in the courtroom, only justice' or whatever it was he said. What Edgeworth doesn't know is his world is in fact not real; it's a story that does have heroes and villians, and we're witnessing it from beyond the fourth wall.
...I'm not even touching the 'kill Phoenix' thing because I have no idea what point you're trying to prove with that. Villians don't just kill people because they're evil; good ones don't, anyway.
And okay, way to twist what I said into a bizarre absolute. I never said Godot was a villian because he's deluded. He's a villian because of the other reasons I already stated.
He did everything he could to get Ron convicted of murder and get Tigre off the hook when it was painfully obvious he was wrong on both counts. He set Iris up to take the fall for his selfish plan instead of taking responsibility like a man (wasn't that one of his 'rules'?
)and went so far as to prosecute her, and even when it was proven it was physically IMPOSSIBLE for Iris to have committed the murder, he insisted on continuing the trial solely for his own satisfaction.Finally, you're entitled to your own opinion of course, but explaining why you feel that way in a topic like this instantly puts the subject up for debate.
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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I was more than willing to argue my point. Just I thought the way you were stating yours suggests I was being ignorant and being all WELLHE'SJUSTMISUNDERSTOODWAHWAHWAH. I was rebutting that, because I fail to see how I was, that's all. Ehhh. Touch of defensiveness on my part. Then again I probably did the same. Blahblahblahinternetissrsbsns, wheee. 
As for the kill Phoenix thing, I was referring to Yanni Yogi. He was the one who killed for revenge, right? Tying that in to Godot's so-called 'vengeance drive'. If Godot had such a powerful drive, no doubt he would have done the same. He would definitely want rid of Phoenix if he had such a drive, just as many other murderers in this series have done for revenge- Karma, Acro, Mimi, Hammer attempted murder for revenge, Matt, Atmey.
Well, I thought I'd already countered the other reasons, namely that he was a bitter person who wanted revenge, when he wasn't if you looked further into it (Dahlia had already died so he didn't want revenge on her, he wanted to protect Maya and such). And the Hazukrain... well, he didn't seem to have a choice anyway, not while Misty wanted in on the gig. He genuinely thought it was the only thing to do. Which was warped, but at the time he couldn't have known that while Maya's own mother approved of it. Which leaves his delusion, which doesn't exactly make him a villain. Sorry I wasn't clear on that
Iris was an accomplice to the entire thing. She understood everything. She had the choice to have not participated in the plan and risked putting herself up for conviction. What Godot said at the later stage of the trial was that 'the accused is still on trial', not that 'the accused is clearly guilty'. The reason the trial continued was because they still didn't know who did it yet, not because Iris was guilty (even though it wasn't made clear, the contrary wasn't made explicit). At this point, he was challenging Phoenix to prove that HE was the one who did it, not dragging it out for his entertainment. However, he certainly wasn't going to let THAT be known- Feenie was going to find out for himself. ;) And thus, the reason why Godot forced Maya to come onto the stand. He wanted her to spell out the truth of everything she saw- him, killing her own mother.
As for the other cases, isn't that what the prosecutors' been doing for the past three games? He certainly made it hard for Phoenix- just to test him of course, not as a mere villain- but he's not exactly hell-bent on his perfect win record like a certain von Karma we could mention. After all, at the end of the poisoning case, he gives up when Tigre spills the beans about the brown bottle. And, he even challenges his earlier witness to admit if he had poisoned the victim or not. Von Karma wouldn't think about it twice, she'd bluff over it just like she hid the fact about the room-search on Acro
Last edited by Jacks on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Quote:
As for the kill Phoenix thing, I was referring to Yanni Yogi. He was the one who killed for revenge, right? Tying that in to Godot's so-called 'vengeance drive'. If Godot had such a powerful drive, no doubt he would have done the same. He would definitely want rid of Phoenix if he had such a drive, just as many other murderers in this series have done for revenge- Karma, Acro, Mimi, Hammer attempted murder for revenge, Matt, Atmey.
So if someone wants to take revenge on someone, the only logical way to do that would be to kill that person?
Quote:
Dahlia had already died so he didn't want revenge on her, he wanted to protect Maya and such
*objection bubble*
I fail to see how Dahlia being dead leads to Godot not wanting revenge on her. Dahlia wanted revenge on Mia and she was dead. Godot absolutely wanted revenge against Dahlia, and here's the proof.
Iris was supposed to take the blame for Misty's death, correct? Yet at the beginning of the second trial day, 'Iris' went to Godot saying she had 'something to confess'. Godot and Iris were in cahoots, so he would have known Iris shouldn't be confessing to anything. That alone should have told him that 'Iris' was actually Dahlia, or at the very least that something was terribly wrong, yet he put her on the stand anyway. Keeping that in mind, there's only two reasons why Godot would have put Dahlia on the stand; he was a complete idiot, or he wanted her on the stand so he could expose and humiliate her.
Quote:
And the Hazukrain... well, he didn't seem to have a choice anyway, not while Misty wanted in on the gig. He genuinely thought it was the only thing to do. Which was warped, but at the time he couldn't have known that while Maya's own mother approved of it.
I don't remember Misty's words specifically, but she never said anything along the lines of "Please let me die for my daughter", she says "If it comes to it, I'm willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for my daughter." It's very clear that Godot was calling the shots at Hazakura, and he could have easily called the whole thing off if he really wanted.
Quote:
Iris was an accomplice to the entire thing. She understood everything. She had the choice to have not participated in the plan and risked putting herself up for conviction.
I already explained that having accomplices and being a villian are completely unrelated.
Quote:
At this point, he was challenging Phoenix to prove that HE was the one who did it, not dragging it out for his entertainment. However, he certainly wasn't going to let THAT be known- Feenie was going to find out for himself. ;)
Okay, this is one of the most frustrating things about Godot for me. Why the HELL does Phoenix have to prove ANYTHING to Godot? Godot just shows up out of nowhere and expects Phoenix to dance to his tune and pass his little 'tests'? Who the hell does Godot think he is?
Quote:
And thus, the reason why Godot forced Maya to come onto the stand. He wanted her to spell out the truth of everything she saw- him, killing her own mother.
Yes, after all the physical and emotional trauma Maya just went through, he puts her on the stand instead of just, you know, confessing. And this is the guy who cared so much about 'protecting' Maya?
Quote:
As for the other cases, isn't that what the prosecutors' been doing for the past three games?
The other prosecutors didn't cause an entire case, either. Besides Manfred, of course, and I hope we don't have to argue about HIM being a villian.
Quote:
After all, at the end of the poisoning case, he gives up when Tigre spills the beans about the brown bottle.
Tigre essentially confessed when he slipped up about the bottle. Godot didn't exactly have a choice but to give up.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Quote:
As for the kill Phoenix thing, I was referring to Yanni Yogi. He was the one who killed for revenge, right? Tying that in to Godot's so-called 'vengeance drive'. If Godot had such a powerful drive, no doubt he would have done the same. He would definitely want rid of Phoenix if he had such a drive, just as many other murderers in this series have done for revenge- Karma, Acro, Mimi, Hammer attempted murder for revenge, Matt, Atmey.
Umm, Matt killed because he was a sick, twisted, evil guy who kept his dual personality under wraps the whole time, not just for revenge? it was to keep his awesomeness hot teen fan star personality his only known one, aka, selfish reasons, self-preservation in a way, not revenge AT ALL.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Matt. Engarde.
I know he's a sick bastard who killed over a stupid competition. I know he cares about nobody and would lie his pretty half-face off to prove he was right. I want to argue in the most rigged, biased, fangirlish view.
Spoiler: Rant, Part One
Spoiler: 3 Points - Everyone Hates Matt
Spoiler: Rivalry
Spoiler: Rant, Part Two
Spoiler: Not In Phoenix's Boards!
Thanks for listening...
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
It's all Wright to be wrong sometimes!
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*attempts to inject some humor* And even through six years of a coma, he hadn't even been able to dump his caffeine addiction.
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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Okay so what she done (ie: trying to get revenge and also commit murder), I felt sorry for the fact that she didn't get the 'love' she needed as a child (unlike what Iris got).
...Yeah, I'm pretty crap at giving out reasons ya know. But all I want to say is that with the amount of 'no' love Dahlia got, I felt pretty sorry for her for who she turned out to be in the end and how terribly she had to take it.
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
PsychoDahlia?!
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
But he didn't give a damn about them. He just took them for spite, I thought.
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
She says the kidnapping was to get revenge for the way their father treated their mother. That was when she was pretending to be Iris, though...
Yes, she was lying. Later, when she was revealed, she said that her mother abandoned her and her father because she didn't have spiritual powers. Her father didn't take them out of spite, he took them because they were abandoned by Morgan.
Furthermore, Dahlia went on to state that Morgan much more evil than her father, and that she only cared about her position in the village, just using her family as pawns.
On another note, I think Valerie's mother would have had a hand in dropping Iris at the temple. Although she is hardly mentioned, I would imagine she would be a very uncaring stepmother... I would have thought she would have been the driving force behind the 'fostering out'.
cherryblossomkunai wrote:
Umm, Matt killed because he was a sick, twisted, evil guy who kept his dual personality under wraps the whole time, not just for revenge? it was to keep his awesomeness hot teen fan star personality his only known one, aka, selfish reasons, self-preservation in a way, not revenge AT ALL.
Killing someone for revenge is just as evil as self-preservation, or any other kind of murder.
Mr. Thunder wrote:
Manfred von Karma *shot*
*ahem* No, Karma's not tragic, he's perfect. YOGI is tragic. I just can't really take pity on Ini as much, if you ask me.
*ahem* No, Karma's not tragic, he's perfect. YOGI is tragic. I just can't really take pity on Ini as much, if you ask me.
Wow, am I the only one that thinks Von Karma is tragic? I mean, he lived with this obsession... this mania that basically controlled his life for 60 years, him being so fixated on it that it led to murder. Obviously a very disturbed man, and in my opinion, a tragic villain.
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
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because of everything he's had to endure
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Make like a tree, and GET OUTTA HERE!!!
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Wrestlemania wrote:
I still like my theory:
If the magazine was never viewed by Phoenix, he never would've been convinced to accompany Maya and Pearl.
And thus, the solution has been elegantly revealed to me!
.......
Godot and Elise should've made sure that Maya and Pearl never obtained a copy of "Oh! Cult!".
If the magazine was never viewed by Phoenix, he never would've been convinced to accompany Maya and Pearl.
And thus, the solution has been elegantly revealed to me!
.......
Godot and Elise should've made sure that Maya and Pearl never obtained a copy of "Oh! Cult!".
HOLY CRAP! I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!!! I might be wrong, but if not, HUGE STORY GAP!
Spoiler: T&T case 5
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Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
That's one of my rules.
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Yes, he backs down on the Maggey case but he COULD have dragged it out even more, by saying Tigre was the 'defense' before and had access to all the details and what have you. And again, prosecutors in the game HAVE all been underhanded/fight against the defense blahblahblah, but it's not like they're all called villains. Not all of the time anyway.
And again, it's not 100% WHO was calling the shots on who, whatever it was Elise said. And besides, if she -knew- she was putting her last daughter in danger, she should have decided on something else- she was more in the wrong than Godot was, considering how things went, right? Whether or not he 'called the shots on Misty' had nothing to do with it. She would never agree to an outsider's plan that would potentially harm her child, so Godot wouldn't have THAT authority over her, despite that he's a prosecutor and he has big ties blah blah blah, he was still an outsider. So she must have really wanted in on this plan.. whosever it was.
Well, fine. I just still.... don't see how he's an evil person Despite all the tangles and loopholes that AA loves etcetera, I don't think of him as a villain. But eh, thats just me yadayadyadya. =.=;
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Gender: None specified
Location: I forgot
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 277
yet. I mean, he was convicted without a motive, a first for the Phoenix Wright. Highly unfair. Also he was convicted even though there was no solid evidence. He was convicted just because Hobo hated him.Also
is very tragic for reasons already said. I nearly cried at the end of T&T...
Because she didn't mean to kill Jack Hammer. It was a freak accident.
His brother is in a coma and he's in a wheelchair all because of Regina. When the chance arises, he kills the man he's looked up to as a father. 
She was forced to play her ditzy occult-loving sister who had tragically died. She was probably screaming in agony on the inside during the whole time Mimi acted like Ini. It must have been hard for her not to be able to be herself.
Credit goes to the lovely Purple Angel for the sig, and the wonderful TheBaronAndEma for the avatar~!
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Gender: None specified
Location: I forgot
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 277
Capybara wrote:
You can't feel sorry for Kristoph.
Well, I do. Deal with it.
Credit goes to the lovely Purple Angel for the sig, and the wonderful TheBaronAndEma for the avatar~!
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Gender: None specified
Location: I forgot
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 277
Credit goes to the lovely Purple Angel for the sig, and the wonderful TheBaronAndEma for the avatar~!
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
US!
Gender: Male
Location: Here.
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:39 pm
Posts: 491
Capybara wrote:
Miyako Chinatsu wrote:
Capybara wrote:
You can't feel sorry for Kristoph.
Well, I do. Deal with it.Curses.
Yeah, actually, I do feel kinda sorry for Kristoph.
Don't honestly know why..... I just did upon first playthrough.
It was supposed to be his big debut, however, he was crap at Poker. Oh dear.
Matt DeMasque!
*Currently playing Spirit of Justice*
*Currently playing Spirit of Justice*
Re: Who do you think is....(ENORMOUS SERIES SPOILERS)
Esta un pollo en mís pantalones
Gender: Female
Location: The Netherlands
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:39 pm
Posts: 374
Riu wrote:
dotsdfe wrote:
Spoiler: Extra tag just in case
Yes! Finally, someone who agrees with me on Ini's life, I thought it was extreemly sad!!!
I cried during that case! It was so sad..
Also
and 
.
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