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3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Okay, so I was just wondering...

Elise had channeled Dahlia and Dahlia was fixing to kill Maya. Wouldn't that mean Dahlia would be in Elise's clothes? But if you look at this picture....

Spoiler:
Image


She's wearing Iris's clothes. Was this explained at all in the game? Or is it just assumed that Dahlia changed clothes before confronting Maya, and then when Elise was killed, her clothes were changed back. I don't remember there being an explanation in the game, so I'm just wondering.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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aren't they wearing the same uniform? only Elise had a black coat over it. Remember, she said she also wore the costume cause she's writing/drawing a new picture book, or something like that.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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ohhh i guess they are wearing the same thing! i didn't bother looking under her cloak. yes she's wearing the cloak to present an image to her fans but i assumed she just wore it all the time because she didn't know pearl would be coming, yet she was wearing it anyway.
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Not too sure about this bunny...

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huh... I never noticed that... :yogi:
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CoffeeAddict is right, but there's another problem with the image--Elise/Dahlia should be wearing a demon-warding hood. Remember, she said she did up her hair and put one on. Larry also sees the hood as the corpse goes "flying," which is why he was so sure it was Iris.
"The hood is my darling Iris! And Iris is my darling hood!"

Makes me sad, 'cause it's an epic image otherwise.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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「これが、モノを殺すと言うことだ…!」

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Am I a pervert for having misread the thread title as nip-slip? >_>
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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DominicanZero wrote:
Am I a pervert for having misread the thread title as nip-slip? >_>


yes, yes you are. XD
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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WallofIllusion wrote:
CoffeeAddict is right, but there's another problem with the image--Elise/Dahlia should be wearing a demon-warding hood. Remember, she said she did up her hair and put one on. Larry also sees the hood as the corpse goes "flying," which is why he was so sure it was Iris.
"The hood is my darling Iris! And Iris is my darling hood!"

Makes me sad, 'cause it's an epic image otherwise.

Larry saw a hood. Elise/Misty's black robe has a hood. After Godot killed Misty, he put her black robe back on before sending her body across the bridge.

Ergo, there is no contradiction. :think:
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
WallofIllusion wrote:
CoffeeAddict is right, but there's another problem with the image--Elise/Dahlia should be wearing a demon-warding hood. Remember, she said she did up her hair and put one on. Larry also sees the hood as the corpse goes "flying," which is why he was so sure it was Iris.
"The hood is my darling Iris! And Iris is my darling hood!"

Makes me sad, 'cause it's an epic image otherwise.

Larry saw a hood. Elise/Misty's black robe has a hood. After Godot killed Misty, he put her black robe back on before sending her body across the bridge.

Ergo, there is no contradiction. :think:

But Dahlia said she put on a hood when she was channeled. If it were Elise's hood, it would have already been on, and even if it weren't already on, there's no reason Dahlia would have put it on in order to look like Iris.
Furthermore, Bikini says that the "Iris" she talked with on the Inner Temple side was wearing her Demon-Warding Hood (and if it were actually Elise's hood that she saw, don't you think that'd stand out in her mind?), while Larry also testifies that he saw a white hood fluttering.
Ergo, my contradiction stands. :youngmia:


(...And, back on? As in it was over on the Inner Temple side but not worn by Dahlia/Elise/Misty at that very moment? ...I fail to see how that makes any sense at all.)
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Only reason it doesn't show the hood is to make it more clear it's Dahlia.

Since that strange hair is the only thing keeping it from looking like anyone.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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WallofIllusion wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
WallofIllusion wrote:
CoffeeAddict is right, but there's another problem with the image--Elise/Dahlia should be wearing a demon-warding hood. Remember, she said she did up her hair and put one on. Larry also sees the hood as the corpse goes "flying," which is why he was so sure it was Iris.
"The hood is my darling Iris! And Iris is my darling hood!"

Makes me sad, 'cause it's an epic image otherwise.

Larry saw a hood. Elise/Misty's black robe has a hood. After Godot killed Misty, he put her black robe back on before sending her body across the bridge.

Ergo, there is no contradiction. :think:

But Dahlia said she put on a hood when she was channeled. If it were Elise's hood, it would have already been on, and even if it weren't already on, there's no reason Dahlia would have put it on in order to look like Iris.
Furthermore, Bikini says that the "Iris" she talked with on the Inner Temple side was wearing her Demon-Warding Hood (and if it were actually Elise's hood that she saw, don't you think that'd stand out in her mind?), while Larry also testifies that he saw a white hood fluttering.
Ergo, my contradiction stands. :youngmia:


(...And, back on? As in it was over on the Inner Temple side but not worn by Dahlia/Elise/Misty at that very moment? ...I fail to see how that makes any sense at all.)

Dahlia either took her hood off after Bikini left, or it fell off. She did chase Maya out to the garden, after all, so the latter is certainly possible.

Larry said the hood was white because Iris had a white hood. He couldn't actually tell what color it was from Heavenly Hall, just that whomever it was had a hood.

Dahlia could have worn Elise's robe up to the Inner Temple but taken it off before going in so Bikini and Maya would think she was Iris. Why didn't she leave it at Hazakura Temple? Well, it was snowing, so maybe she wore it that far because she was cold. :yogi:

I think that should clear things up.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Dahlia either took her hood off after Bikini left, or it fell off. She did chase Maya out to the garden, after all, so the latter is certainly possible.

Larry said the hood was white because Iris had a white hood. He couldn't actually tell what color it was from Heavenly Hall, just that whomever it was had a hood.

Dahlia could have worn Elise's robe up to the Inner Temple but taken it off before going in so Bikini and Maya would think she was Iris. Why didn't she leave it at Hazakura Temple? Well, it was snowing, so maybe she wore it that far because she was cold. :yogi:

I think that should clear things up.

While you do make valid points about the temperature and Larry not being able to see the color, I still can't believe your whole series of events. Especially since it was quite cold, as you point out, there would have been no reason for Dahlia to take off the white hood on purpose. There was no "chase"--Maya was passing through the garden from the prep room to the training hall. And since the hood seems to be fairly well-secured, I don't think it could have simply fallen off without considerable physical action. While this physical action could very well have been the struggle between Maya, Dahlia, and Godot, I find it strange that the hood falling off wouldn't have been mentioned at all in that case.
In fact, that's the problem that I have with this whole discrepancy--while your theory is fairly plausible, I feel that it's strange that the player is left to figure this all out on his or her own, if they notice it. Maybe I'm cynical, but I personally believe that the hood was either forgotten or left out of the picture for dramatic effect--more likely forgotten, since Godot mentions seeing Dahlia's silhouette.

@Mr. Thunder--It's already abundantly clear that it's Dahlia. Who else could it be? If you're saying that it was just left out for dramatic effect, then I think that's plausible, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a contradiction.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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WallofIllusion wrote:
There was no "chase"--Maya was passing through the garden from the prep room to the training hall.

Objection.

3-5 wrote:
:that-b-word: ...That ridiculous head nun never noticed a thing. She left Maya Fey at the Inner Temple...and wobbled back clutching her poor old back.
:udgy: Wh-What did you do then...?
:that-b-word: That kid was easier to handle than I had hoped... I caught up with her in front of the stone lantern. Then I took out the dagger I got from the storeroom and...


And yes, while my explanation is a little far-fetched, when isn't something far-fetched in AA World? If it's possible, it's not a contradiction.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Caught up with her does not necessarily imply a chase. Dahlia could mean that that is where she found Maya, met up with her. Maya, on the other hand, testifies that, "I was passing through the garden on my way to a spare prep room when it happened. / Suddenly, someone struck me over the head... / I stumbled, and wound up against the stone lantern." She doesn't mention any chase leading up to that strike; the "suddenly" implies that she had no warning of what was about to happen, which she would have had if she were chased; and the fact that she immediately wound up against the stone lantern means that there was no space after this blow that any chase could have happened.
I doubt that Dahlia was running around trying to find Maya, either. There are very few places Maya could have been on the Inner Temple side, Dahlia was under no time constraint, and to run unnecessarily would simply risk attracting attention.

But what I'm saying is that your explanation isn't in the Ace Attorney world. What I have a problem with is no longer your explanation (provided that the hood actually fell off during the struggle, not this "chase" that I don't believe happened), but the fact that no such explanation is provided in the game. While you have worked out all the kinks and explained the "contradiction," I still feel that if the writers had intended for that to be the case, they would have included such an explanation in the game. As they didn't, I think the hood was simply forgotten--because if it hadn't been, there was a much simpler way they could included the hood and Dahlia's distinctive hairstyle: she could have been wearing the garment with the actual hood part that goes over her head down.

At this point, though, we may have to agree to disagree.
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"A truthful witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies." Proverbs 14:5. Straight from the Bible, folks~ XD
Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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If you really want to break the fourth wall and get technical, then yes, it's likely that Capcom just forgot about the hood.

That's sort of a negative way to look at it, though. :sadshoe:
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Heh, I suppose it is. :oops: I tend to be a bit of a pessimist sometimes...
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「これが、モノを殺すと言うことだ…!」

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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
If you really want to break the fourth wall and get technical, then yes, it's likely that Capcom just forgot about the hood.

That's sort of a negative way to look at it, though. :sadshoe:

...I know this is horribly off-topic, but is it bad that I can't look away from a certain zone of your avatar? D:
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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No. It's understandable. Iris has some incredibly hypnotic eyes. :ayame:
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「これが、モノを殺すと言うことだ…!」

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...I was actually aiming a little more to the south... >_>
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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whoa, what happened last night?

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OBJECTION!
I don't care about that stupid hood, there's clearly another contradiction!
Spoiler: 3-5
In the picture, Dahlia is wearing a magatama necklace. But, before channeling, Misty wore the "Master's Seal," which isn't a magatama necklace. It is a big square locket that is worn, most probably on the side or back, where the robe is covering it. Dahlia didn't know that it was Misty channeling her, not Pearl, so she wouldn't have a need to put on a magatama necklace to make it look like Iris did it. But, somehow, the magatama necklace "magically" appeared there. There isn't a magatama necklace attached to the Fey Seal, so how did it get there?


TAKE THAT! ...Right?
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Wrong.

Misty was likely wearing her Master's Talisman under her robes. She didn't want anyone knowing who she was, so wearing it over her robes would risk the chance of someone seeing it. As far as the necklace, she wanted to impersonate Iris, and Iris wears a magatama. The person channeling her didn't have a magatama, so Dahlia put one on. The medium's identity was irrelevant in that regard.
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whoa, what happened last night?

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Spoiler: Awesome~ness
If Dahlia put a magatama on, did she take the Master's Talisman off? And where if? The Master's Talisman was found at the scene of the crime, and Misty, being the Master, could try to take it off while channeling her, or it fell. But, this brings up a different matter. Dahlia doesn't seem to be wearing The Master's Talisman, yet it was found at the scene of the crime. If it was on her back, the killer could have not seen it (red). Thus, it was accidentally cut off and left at the scene. But, still, Dahlia doesn't seem to be wearing The Master's Talisman! And yes, it was relevant.


TAKE THAT!
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Like I said, it was under her robes. It could have fallen through after Misty died.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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whoa, what happened last night?

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Spoiler:
Image On the edges, it is cut!
Or at least,"unbuttoned!"


Aw, man, I am wrong...
Whoopdy~doo.


I take this BACK! For now.
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Last edited by hard thinker on Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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:objection:

I replayed the case recently, and Iris says that she's the one who put the robe on Misty.

The bigger contradiction in the case is that stupid snowmobile.
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:holdit:

look at godot!!!
isnt he super cool????
*shout*
*faint*

anyway *AAAAAAHHHHHEEEEEMM!!!!*
is it possible that she just change her clothes so that she looked like Iris?
The plan is to pin this crime on Iris after all.
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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whoa, what happened last night?

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Wait!!!
HOLD IT!

I have found evidence, to prove my contradiction!

Spoiler: Decisive
I looked over the case, and found out that you could wear it, and the rope is leather. Also, while investigating, a conversation between Phoenix, Franziska, and Gumshoe --

"There's a charm or something poking out from the snow." (It looks pretty old. There's a leather cord tied to it, too.) -Phoenix
"Apparently, it belonged to the victim." -Gumshoe
"To Ms. Elise Deauxnim?" -Franziska
"Yeah. There was a broken leather cord around the lady's neck. The ends of the cords found on both the victim and this charm match exactly." -Gumshoe
(That means this charm definitely belonged to Ms. Deauxnim.)
(This could be a really vital piece of evidence.)
--------
Right, you are Phoenix, right you are.
The victim was most likely wearing it during the murder, since, they found the body with strands of leather. This proves that --
1. The victim was probably wearing the Talisman during the murder.
2. Godot "accidentally" cut it off. IT'S LEATHER!!! The rope, I mean.
3. It couldn't have been under her robes. It was CUT OFF. Also, she would've worn it, because she DID channel somebody, and she WAS the Kurain Channelling Master.


And, just LOOK at it.

Image Ain't it a beauty?!


@GoDot-FanGirl: Yeah! He has more stubble than GS4 Phoenix!
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Re: 3-5 slip-up? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Obsession : Godot

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:objection:

Spoiler:
I just remember when godot swung misty over like a pendulum, and larry saw it.
CMIIW but he say that he saw Iris flying right? not Elise.
Bikini said that she saw Iris at the inner temple too.
I think its pretty clear that dahlia disguised as Iris and according to Morgan's letter, the plan is to pin this crime on Iris.
So it might be Iris who put elise's robe on before stabbing her with the shichishito.

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