Please, if you haven't beaten Trials and Tribulations yet and do not want to be spoiled, do not read this. I would use spoiler tags, but this post is going to be so spoiler-ific that it would be easier to just spoiler tag the entire thing which I really don't want to do to an opening post. Thank you.

Well, this is a question that has been nagging me for a few days now, ever since I beat case 3-5 for the third time: Why did Godot ask Iris to take the fall if something went wrong with the plan to save Maya? It's something I've never quite understood. Iris isn't connected very closely with Maya, so why would Godot expect her to take the blame for something that seems so unrelated to her. If anything, he should have asked Misty (if he were to ask anyone) to do so if they failed. If I recall correctly, after her staff was revealed to be a sword, one of the characters remarked that Misty would have done anything to protect her daughter. Surely that would have involved taking the blame for a murder (assuming she wasn't the victim, which no one could have easily forseen).

In addtion, even if, IMO, Misty should have been the one to take blame, I don't understand why the writers had Godot ask Iris in the first place. For one, it wasn't necessary to the case for this to happen-Bikini was a witness to the crime anyway, and, for another, Iris immediately accepts Edgeworth/Wright's offer to defend her, rendering her promise pointless. From the writers' standpoint, there doesn't seem to have been much purpose in having Iris make such a promise when she so quickly broke it anyway.

This leads me to the topic question and my little theory: that Godot hated, or at least held a strong grudge against Iris. Although Iris never directly hurt Godot, I think her strong ties to her sister made it impossible for him to not, at the very least, be somewhat angry with her.

For one, Iris is Dahlia's twin. I can't imagine that looking exactly like Dahlia, the woman who destroyed Godot's existence and is now beyond his power to punish, endears her to him. Every time he sees her, it must be difficult not to feel a stab of rage knowing that Dahlia is beyond his reach to exact revenge upon.

Another point I have to bring up is that Godot is partially justified if he blames Iris for what happened to him and Mia. After all, one of the reasons he hated Phoenix was because Phoenix unconciously helped cover up Dahlia's poisoning. Iris honestly has a lot more to answer for. She could have prevented Godot's death many times over. The first was when she protected her sister (at 14) and allowed Terry Fawles to be found guilty of murder and kidnapping when it was Dahlia who actually betrayed him. The second was when she refused to come forward during the trial for the murder of Valerie Hawthorne. Had she testified in support of Mia's points, Dahlia would have likely been convicted and would never have been able to poison Diego for his continued investigation into that case. Finally, Iris helped cover for her sister again after Dahlia poisoned Diego; instead of going to the police, she even tried to get Dahlia completely off the hook by retrieving the poison bottle from Phoenix.

Looking at everything Iris did (or didn't do as was most often the case), I'd say that Godot likely despised Iris, or at least the loyalty she had to her sister, as the consequences proved disasterous to him. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that he saw her as Dahlia's "enabler" and, therefore, partially guilty of the crimes herself.

o__o!!! I never thought of it that way. he would be like that :C



I didn't know she was there when that happened D: (but then it's been two months since I played that case so idk)

What made me think that she most likely knew was the fact that the murder occured near Hazakura Temple, around Dusky Bridge. I find it unlikely that Iris wouldn't have found out or been informed about that-it is only fifteen minutes away from her home. But even without that, she's certainly helped Dahlia enough for Godot to dislike her. And we all know how he can hold a grudge.

It's highly likely that Iris at least knew about Valerie's murder before hand, considering that it's stated that the day Dahlia tried to poison Phoenix was the first time Dahlia didn't share her plans with Iris beforehand.


So not only would she know about the kidnapping (which she was supposed to be involved in, of course), she would also know about Dahlia's intention to murder Valerie and her intention to murder Diego, and she did nothing about any of these crimes.
But why I hate Iris isn't the topic here... Especially since Godot couldn't have known that.
EDIT: this section is no longer on hold because in Japanese, it's even clearer that Phoenix and Iris are referring to all of Dahlia's crimes in that conversation.



I also believe Godot hated Iris, pretty much for the exact reasons you listed (and for others that only make sense in my head). Though, you have to remember, based on the fear that there would be a witness to the murder, they would have needed someone who looked like Dahlia to take the blame. When you look at it that way, Iris both "looked" convenient and was conveniently positioned.
...But I still say he hates her.

I think another interesting question is why Iris agreed to take the blame. I mean I suppose she just has a guilty conscience for what she let her sister do over the years... but dang. That's quite a thing to agree to when you're technically unrelated to the crime...

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Last edited by WallofIllusion on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just a small nitpick, but it wasn't the poison that made him detest Nick. It was the fact that Nick couldn't prevent Mia from being killed by Redd White.

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Though that's the reason he states most often, nearer to the end of the trial, he does list hiding the bottle as a reason as well.

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i was hoping this would be a simple thread, i was wrong

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So...does anyone else have a theory as to why Godot asked Iris (and why she might have accepted)? I think my theory's right, but it's really hard to tell because Godot never shows any open hostility or aggression towards Iris. Also, I just don't understand Iris as a character very well; it's never explained why she does the things that she does (like why she still looks out for her sister after everything Dahlia did to her and the man she loved-Phoenix). People often say that Iris is a very complex character, but I have trouble seeing it. Urgh...it's so frustrating, but I guess every case needs a little mystery.

As much as I like Iris, I think I have to agree. Here's how I imagine it:

Godot/Diego was asleep while Mia died and while Dahlia was executed. He tried to make up for Mia with protecting Maya (and, to an extent, hating Phoenix), and probably decided to make up for Dahlia with placing the blame on Iris, and possibly killing her as well (which is a bit hard to imagine).

Iris, though somewhat simple-minded, probably saw this, and wanted to probably atone for her sins by doing this for him. Even if it meant her death, and the endless torment by her sister.

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I think I'll offer my own reason for choosing Iris. Let's take it from square one.

1. The team's objective was to stop Maya from dying. To do this, they had to foil Morgan's plan, and to foil Morgan's plan, the primary objective was to get a grip on Dahlia Hawthorne's spirit and make sure it couldn't injure Maya seriously enough to stop her from becoming the master of Kurain. Their plan consisted of A) trying to stop Pearl from channeling Dahlia by occupying her with reading, and as a backup plan, B) stopping her by force - using the Kurain master Misty to channel Dahlia and hopefully contain her without Dahlia realizing that she was in Misty's body. That's what ended up happening, with a few hitches:
2. They could not contain Dahlia. She, of course, thought that she was in Pearl's body, but probably didn't realize the talisman on her. At any rate, she hunts Maya down, pulls out the sword in the staff, and- oops, looks like the anti-Morgan team used their trump card. They stopped Dahlia by force - neutralizing the body that was intended to contain her. By this time, Pearl fell asleep, so in the end, the plan worked; of course, at the cost of one valuable life.
3. Obviously, it would be difficult to make it look like Misty Fey commited suicide.
4. Godot's power as a prosecutor was valuable - listening in on Morgan Fey, and on the side, he probably wasn't positive that he had come to terms with the attorney (Wright).
5. Why was Iris the third person in the team? Simple - Sister Bikini was the one running Hazakurain Temple and Iris was the only other one who really knew the area that well. Furthermore, Iris probably offered herself to Godot as a potential sacrifice because she wanted to pay for conspiring with Dahlia - she herself admitted that she had sins to pay for.

See, this is exactly what I don't understand: Why would Iris tell Godot that she would take the fall, but then, as soon as she is suspected, deny committing the crime. Obviously she's innocent, but I would have expected her to behave more like Lana Skye: stubbornly refusing to plead innocent until it is proven otherwise. If she was attempting to carry the blame as penance for her past actions, then why didn't she see it through to the end? Urghh...it's so frustrating *bangs head on table* Why can't I ever understand what is going through Iris's head?

She knew that Phoenix wanted Edgeworth to take the case (And she only accepts his offer of defense after hearing that it was Phoenix's request. She never asks Edgeworth to defend her), so she allowed it. Think about what she had done. Iris had altered the scene, making sure that her prints were all over the weapon. She then took her bloody clothes and set them in her room instead of getting rid of them while she had the time (and she did during the chaos that occurred afterward, but she just went to wait for the police). On top of that, and although she couldn't have planned this part, she would know it had happened, Bikini saw her stabbing Misty. Iris probably believed that she had framed herself well enough that it would no longer matter what happened in court, and if having Edgeworth defend her gave Phoenix some peace, then she was willing to go along. She never aids with her own defense. Edgeworth has to drag every answer from her, including crucial points which could have been used to clear her like the use of the snowmobile. All she would say was that she couldn't answer. Yes, she denied killing anyone, but in the face of that evidence, who would simply believe her denial? No one and Iris knew it, so she agreed to give Phoenix what he wanted. At least he could feel better in knowing that he tried to save her.

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Hmm...that does make quite a lot of sense. It does fit Iris's character to want to protect Phoenix at any cost (considering she's still rather strongly attached to him even after five years). So did she think of this as her way of atoning to him after keeping her true identity secret all those years ago? In a way, it makes sense, but then again, it doesn't (well, I just contradicted myself nicely). Of course she would want Phoenix to save her, but what if he hadn't won? Wouldn't that have made him feel worse, knowing that he'd allowed an innocent person to be convicted of murder? Especially someone he once loved (and may still be in love with)? Even if Iris truly believed that Phoenix would win, it still is a large risk to take, not to mention it sort of cancels out her promise to Godot? Wow, her behavior sure is circular.

I actually very much doubt that Iris believed that Phoenix could save her. She had purposefully framed herself and had done a very thorough job. The thing with Phoenix is that he never believed that Iris was capable of killing someone which was why he sent Edgeworth in the first place. No matter what, Phoenix believed Iris was innocent and he was determined to prove it. I think far crueler would be to force him to sit on his hands and do nothing to save her even though, in his heart, he knew she was innocent. Remember how distraught Ema was in 1-5 despite the fact that Lana insisted she was guilty. Ema never believed it and it killed her that Lana refused to allow her to help. Would Lana's conviction hurt? Absolutely (and no matter what happened, a conviction would hurt), but it would likely hurt more knowing that her sister was innocent and not being allowed to do anything to try and prove it.

In this way, the situation was similar except that Iris made a different choice. She decided that it would be kinder to allow him to try if he truly wished to help her (And perhaps on some level she thought he'd give it up anyway. She does state that she couldn't believe that Phoenix would want to help her). Nothing would change the fact that Phoenix believed her to be innocent and a conviction would hurt no matter what, but knowing Phoenix as we do (and the way she did), wasn't it kinder to allow him to at least try? To let him know that he had done everything he could and this was something that was beyond anyone's control rather then allow him to live under the assumption that he might have been able to save her had he been allowed to try? Phoenix has never been the type to be content to sit by and let things happen if he could have any effect on them. I can't imagine that he would ever have found peace if he had been denied the chance to try and save Iris. She believed herself to be beyond help (and repeatedly refused to help with her defense since she intended to be found guilty), but she couldn't deny Phoenix the chance to try and help her if it gave him some peace over the situation.

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