is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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because godot killed misty but she want to die to save maya. and godot killed misty so he could stop dahlia. so he killed somebody to save someone else. and than person he killed know than she maybe could die. so is godot really guilty?
always remeber 2 things.
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2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: is godot really guilty?
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I'm fairly sure he was one of the few murderers who did NOT get the death sentence, though.
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Re: is godot really guilty?
tell me if you know a better one.
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always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: is godot really guilty?
i feel pretty
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Re: is godot really guilty?
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Plus, there's no such thing as a selfless act. And I only think the worst murderers got the death sentence...
Re: is godot really guilty?
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Also, this topic should be marked for spoilers.
Re: is godot really guilty?
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Also, this topic should be marked for spoilers.
Yes, and the title should be changed b/c that is also a big spoiler.
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Re: is godot really guilty?
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Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
Well, murder in self defense is still murder.
I'm fairly sure he was one of the few murderers who did NOT get the death sentence, though.
I'm fairly sure he was one of the few murderers who did NOT get the death sentence, though.
This.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Oh, and @ Perrydotto: I'm glad someone agrees. ^^;
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
Call me Ishmael.
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Feenie_Polly wrote:
I agree with Capybara, Godot even admitted it that he wasn't doing it for Maya, he did it for himself. Though he had good reason to do it, and I feel real bad for him, murder is murder and well he's gulity of it. I'm also pretty sure he didn't get the death sentence. But I'm also confused at the end of T&T when there's the picture of Godot, Mia, and Elise. Elise and Mia are dead, so why is Godot there? xD Unless he's dead... But anyways yeah he's gulity...
I've actually heard a theory about this on TV Tropes.
Spoiler: The theory
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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if he is dead, (which I'm not saying he is but the possiblity is there) wouldn't the death sentence make more sense?? I'm not sure 
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Spoiler: Might as well spoiler-tag
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
He's as guilty as Vasquez, he had a good reason to do it but that doesn't make his crime disappear.
Oh, and @ Perrydotto: I'm glad someone agrees. ^^;
Oh, and @ Perrydotto: I'm glad someone agrees. ^^;
I agree with you too!! Murder is a crime and should be punished as such, although he wouldn't of got the death penalty.
IIRC, when Godot "killed" Dahlia out of his rage, didn't he say something like he knew in the back of his mind he could be stabbing Pearl. I could be wrong...
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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PlatinumOrb wrote:
Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
He's as guilty as Vasquez, he had a good reason to do it but that doesn't make his crime disappear.
Oh, and @ Perrydotto: I'm glad someone agrees. ^^;
Oh, and @ Perrydotto: I'm glad someone agrees. ^^;
I agree with you too!! Murder is a crime and should be punished as such, although he wouldn't of got the death penalty.
IIRC, when Godot "killed" Dahlia out of his rage, didn't he say something like he knew in the back of his mind he could be stabbing Pearl. I could be wrong...
but wasn't there something like: justified self defense?
always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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FerdieLance wrote:
Spoiler: Might as well spoiler-tag
Hahaha, I lol'd.
What is it with this series and parents who are jerks!?
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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GigaHand wrote:
When I saw the topic title, I thought it was the lack of decisive evidence that was going to be brought into question. After all, the only things Phoenix managed to prove were that Godot was at the crime scene, that he battled with Dahlia, and that he covered up the crime to lead them away from Maya. After all, while his prints weren't on the murder weapon, Elise's were. To quote the Judge from 4-3...
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
You mean except for the fact that Godot confessed? That is pretty damn decisive!
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
When I saw the topic title, I thought it was the lack of decisive evidence that was going to be brought into question. After all, the only things Phoenix managed to prove were that Godot was at the crime scene, that he battled with Dahlia, and that he covered up the crime to lead them away from Maya. After all, while his prints weren't on the murder weapon, Elise's were. To quote the Judge from 4-3...
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
You mean except for the fact that Godot confessed? That is pretty damn decisive!
YES I MEAN EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT HE CONFESSED!
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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That his "confessing side" is something new for the player doesn't mean that it's OOC.
Just sayin'.
*swings away again*
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
Get Funky, +10 Pulchritude
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GigaHand wrote:
Croik wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
When I saw the topic title, I thought it was the lack of decisive evidence that was going to be brought into question. After all, the only things Phoenix managed to prove were that Godot was at the crime scene, that he battled with Dahlia, and that he covered up the crime to lead them away from Maya. After all, while his prints weren't on the murder weapon, Elise's were. To quote the Judge from 4-3...
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
"The defense's case, while persuasive, is not decisive."
You mean except for the fact that Godot confessed? That is pretty damn decisive!
YES I MEAN EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT HE CONFESSED!
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."
he was being controlled by aliens
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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L_J wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
YES I MEAN EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT HE CONFESSED!
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."
he was being controlled by aliens
So THAT'S what the visor does.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
Make like a tree, and GET OUTTA HERE!!!
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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GigaHand wrote:
You mean except for the fact that Godot confessed? That is pretty damn decisive!
YES I MEAN EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT HE CONFESSED!
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."[/quote]
The decisive evidence was the wound hiding under Godot's visor. If his blood matched the blood on the small dagger it would prove that Dahlia got a hit on her attacker, and her attacker was Godot.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
You're not the only ones waiting...
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Croik wrote:
The decisive evidence was the wound hiding under Godot's visor. If his blood matched the blood on the small dagger it would prove that Dahlia got a hit on her attacker, and her attacker was Godot.
You must remember that Godot said that he was the first to find the murder weapon. He also said something along the lines of "I could of just removed the blood and replaced it with cow's blood." The blood may not even match if he did that. (Although I highly doubt he actually did do that. He probably just said that to psyche out Phoenix.)
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Process of elimination.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
The blood doesn't even matter. Misty's killer was cut during the struggle with Dahlia, and out of the three survivors on the Inner Temple side of the bridge after it burned away, Godot was the only one wounded.
Process of elimination.
Process of elimination.
Process of elimination my ass! It's perfectly possible for Godot to hve dropped the sword, for Maya to have picked it up and stabbed Dahlia. Furthermore, there is no evidence stating that Pearl wasn't at the crime scene either!
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Metal4good wrote:
Croik wrote:
The decisive evidence was the wound hiding under Godot's visor. If his blood matched the blood on the small dagger it would prove that Dahlia got a hit on her attacker, and her attacker was Godot.
You must remember that Godot said that he was the first to find the murder weapon. He also said something along the lines of "I could of just removed the blood and replaced it with cow's blood." The blood may not even match if he did that. (Although I highly doubt he actually did do that. He probably just said that to psyche out Phoenix.)
...He didn't see the blood. Of course he knew there was blood on it, namely his, he probably tried to wipe it off, but it dried and he thought he did.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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GigaHand wrote:
It's perfectly possible for Godot to hve dropped the sword, for Maya to have picked it up and stabbed Dahlia.
Except Maya and Dahlia both testified otherwise.
GigaHand wrote:
Furthermore, there is no evidence stating that Pearl wasn't at the crime scene either!
Again, nobody claimed she was at the scene.
In Ace Attorney World, witness testimony carries just as much weight as physical evidence unless it's proven to contradict the facts.
GigaHand wrote:
...He didn't see the blood. Of course he knew there was blood on it, namely his, he probably tried to wipe it off, but it dried and he thought he did.
Wrong. Godot clearly mentioned the blood on the dagger when he submitted it.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
It's perfectly possible for Godot to hve dropped the sword, for Maya to have picked it up and stabbed Dahlia.
Except Maya and Dahlia both testified otherwise.
A: Dahlia lied. She said she witnessed it as Maya cornering Elise at first, then she said she cornered her, and fell unconcious before killing her.
B: Maya would have every reason to lie. IF my theory is true (Which it most likely isn't, I just presented it to show that the evidence isn't as decisive as everyone thinks).
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Furthermore, there is no evidence stating that Pearl wasn't at the crime scene either!
Again, nobody claimed she was at the scene.
In Ace Attorney World, witness testimony carries just as much weight as physical evidence unless it's proven to contradict the facts.
Yes, that's exactly why they didn't question Morgan's testimony in 2-2 after she was accused. They still believed it which is why she was arrested.
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
...He didn't see the blood. Of course he knew there was blood on it, namely his, he probably tried to wipe it off, but it dried and he thought he did.
Wrong. Godot clearly mentioned the blood on the dagger when he submitted it.
Oh, really? I must've missed that.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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GigaHand wrote:
A: Dahlia lied. She said she witnessed it as Maya cornering Elise at first, then she said she cornered her, and fell unconcious before killing her.
B: Maya would have every reason to lie. IF my theory is true (Which it most likely isn't, I just presented it to show that the evidence isn't as decisive as everyone thinks).
B: Maya would have every reason to lie. IF my theory is true (Which it most likely isn't, I just presented it to show that the evidence isn't as decisive as everyone thinks).
Dahlia lied at first because she was trying to frame Maya by pretending she was Iris and a witness to the murder. The problem was she didn't remember how she 'died', so she had to make something up. Once she was exposed, she didn't have any reason to lie; she thought Maya was dead and assumed she couldn't be punished for her role in it.
GigaHand wrote:
Yes, that's exactly why they didn't question Morgan's testimony in 2-2 after she was accused. They still believed it which is why she was arrested.
Spoiler: 2-2
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
A: Dahlia lied. She said she witnessed it as Maya cornering Elise at first, then she said she cornered her, and fell unconcious before killing her.
B: Maya would have every reason to lie. IF my theory is true (Which it most likely isn't, I just presented it to show that the evidence isn't as decisive as everyone thinks).
B: Maya would have every reason to lie. IF my theory is true (Which it most likely isn't, I just presented it to show that the evidence isn't as decisive as everyone thinks).
Dahlia lied at first because she was trying to frame Maya by pretending she was Iris and a witness to the murder. The problem was she didn't remember how she 'died', so she had to make something up. Once she was exposed, she didn't have any reason to lie; she thought Maya was dead and assumed she couldn't be punished for her role in it.
This... actually enforces my point. Dahlia didn't remember anything past being struck by Godot. So it's still possible for Maya to have done what I suggested.
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Yes, that's exactly why they didn't question Morgan's testimony in 2-2 after she was accused. They still believed it which is why she was arrested.
Spoiler: 2-2
If we had more cases like this, I might be able to continue the debate... DAMN IT!
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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darn it, didn't notice the post dates
Godot said he was unsure when he confessed, but in his actual trial he could very very very easily not mention that and have a great self-defense case :P
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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stickmeister wrote:
As the game points out, it's still murder. Accidental, intended, self-defense, all of it is still murder.
Well, the game labels it as murder, but the punishments are way different. Like in 2-2, if Phoenix had used the justified self-defense plea, Maya would've been convicted of murder, but wouldn't have had to do any jailtime or anything. (At least, that's the way they seemed to describe it to me.) And I think we're kinda-sorta referring to real-world terms, too
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Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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GigaHand wrote:
And it's kinda OOC for Godot to confess anyway! He should be all "Prove it, Trite."
At this point, doesn't Godot just want to get everything out in the open somehow? To have it be finished? He's probably realized that Phoenix is at a point where all he has is a theory. Not confessing would probably mean that the trial would continue, and possibly lead to Maya being guilty. That's not exactly looking out for Mia's sister. He's done what he feels he needed to do, and I don't think he would want to have no consequences for that.
And murder is still murder. You can start calling it other names, but he's still killed someone.
Re: is the killer of 3-5 really guilty? (spoilers)
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Maybe nobody would have died (then there wouldn't be a case but still). Not even dahlia knew that she was in misty's body so she probably wouldn't hurt it. Also Godot did not really need to stab her since she was techniquelly already dead. Godot was wrong to waste someone's life who is innocent to protect Maya, since there were many other ways.
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