Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Last edited by LyingColdly on Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
...Hopefully someday... xD
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Anyway...I guess it goes something like this.
Spoiler: Just in case...
In the end: ...Did I remember anything of that right?
Meh...Need to play the case again, I guess...
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Yaragorm wrote:
Maybe because today's society tends to pity the emo...
Spoiler:
"So apparently P/I fan + Insecurity + airheadedness + strange kinks + bad grasp of reality + over eagerness = bad user........." D= /D\
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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SerialVER wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Maybe because today's society tends to pity the emo...
Spoiler:
I don't. She's a bloody mafia girl shes used to making money and ect.. To be honest she helped runa loan shark company so she broke the law. I couldn't stand her. And is there any justifcation that she is an emo? Also at least you know you boyfriend wont cheat or leave you.
I think she's just "Mute" not Emo.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Mafia = cool.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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loobywright wrote:
I love Viola.
Mafia = cool.
Mafia = cool.
Hear hear. ;D
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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loobywright wrote:
I love Viola.
Mafia = cool.
Mafia = cool.
This.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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So yeah, that's basically why I feel bad for her. I don't think she's the most saddest person in the games, but she's still had it tough in my opinion.
loobywright wrote:
I love Viola.
Mafia = cool.
Mafia = cool.
So true.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Adrian in black wrote:
I don't know about acting like her story is the most tragic in all of PW...
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
Exactly. Unless you're being sarcastic...
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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P!ATD wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
I don't know about acting like her story is the most tragic in all of PW...
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
Exactly. Unless you're being sarcastic...
...
Yes.
Yes, that is something I would totally be sarcastic about.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Adrian in black wrote:
I don't know about acting like her story is the most tragic in all of PW...
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
...but, you know, it is perfectly possible to have sympathy for somebody who gets the shit end of the stick, even if they are a creepy criminal whose sad past might pale in comparison to other people's.
I agree with this.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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P!ATD wrote:
OK, since I'm really, really stupid, I'm confused now. I'm guessing you weren't being sarcastic?
To be honest, I didn't think any sarcasm could be taken from my post about Viola. But it seems different people interpret posts in different ways.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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It was the part when you called Viola creepy that confused me. I'm not even completely sure why.
Since you weren't being sarcastic, I completely agree with what you said.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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P!ATD wrote:
Yeah, but that's normal people. I see sarcasm everywhere, I was in Maths today, and my teacher tells us the answer, and I wouldn't believe that was right.
It was the part when you called Viola creepy that confused me. I'm not even completely sure why.
Since you weren't being sarcastic, I completely agree with what you said.
It was the part when you called Viola creepy that confused me. I'm not even completely sure why.
Since you weren't being sarcastic, I completely agree with what you said.
When I said "creepy," it was in reference to the original poster's comment about Viola. They're his words, not mine.
Next time I'll use quotes though.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Bummer.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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She has always appeared to me as one of the most emotional characters in AA.
I still wonder why she wasn't arrested though for being an accomplice...
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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She was been use and what happened to her is sad. Plus she creepy
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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It's long, but it's worth the read.
Croik wrote:
Everyone always makes a big deal about poor Viola - how she had her poor heart broken realizing the man she loved doesn't love her. And to that I say...fuck that. The game does imply that the crash the two of them had was more Tigre's fault than hers, but it was still an accident - an accident that Tigre paid dearly for. It wasn't his fault that she happened to be a Cadaverini, and he had no choice but to look after her. His life was on the line if he upset her - a fact that Viola doesn't seem to dispute. But Viola, and especially Phoenix, treat it like Tigre betrayed her somehow.
Which is an attitude that shows up in romance stories I simply can't stand: that just because someone falls in love with character A, that means A has some obligation to love the person back. Everyone seems to agree that the pain of a person in love with someone who doesn't love them back trumps all sorts of circumstances. In the case of 3-3 especially I have no sympathy for Viola. She was selfish the entire time. She claims she likes Tigre because he cared about her for her, not becuase of her family, but she has no problem with him fawning over her. Whatever the reason, the truth remains that she wants a man to spoil her. If she's so desperate for attention that she accepts a simpering suck up in any form, she...needs to get out more. Go to goth clubs or something.
They also hint that Viola knew all along that Tigre was being nice to her out of fear of her grandfather. She knew he was desperate to pay back the money his life depended on. In that situation, even if she felt "hurt" by the fact that a man twice her age wasn't in love with her...why didn't she just ask her familiy to drop the issue? Did she honestly care for *him* at all, or did she only like him because he worshipped her? You'd think if any of her affection towards him was honest, she would have asked her grandfather to drop the amount and spare Tigre's life.
Obviously, Viola doesn't do that. She pretends not to know that Tigre is in fear for his life, because she enjoys the attention she gets from him. Tigre may have "deceived" her by being nicer than he normally would have, but she was *using* him. Her unwillingness to face the truth and try to resolve the issue put Glen in danger, too.
But of course, no one blames Viola, because the poor girl is heartbroken. Aww :(
Which is an attitude that shows up in romance stories I simply can't stand: that just because someone falls in love with character A, that means A has some obligation to love the person back. Everyone seems to agree that the pain of a person in love with someone who doesn't love them back trumps all sorts of circumstances. In the case of 3-3 especially I have no sympathy for Viola. She was selfish the entire time. She claims she likes Tigre because he cared about her for her, not becuase of her family, but she has no problem with him fawning over her. Whatever the reason, the truth remains that she wants a man to spoil her. If she's so desperate for attention that she accepts a simpering suck up in any form, she...needs to get out more. Go to goth clubs or something.
They also hint that Viola knew all along that Tigre was being nice to her out of fear of her grandfather. She knew he was desperate to pay back the money his life depended on. In that situation, even if she felt "hurt" by the fact that a man twice her age wasn't in love with her...why didn't she just ask her familiy to drop the issue? Did she honestly care for *him* at all, or did she only like him because he worshipped her? You'd think if any of her affection towards him was honest, she would have asked her grandfather to drop the amount and spare Tigre's life.
Obviously, Viola doesn't do that. She pretends not to know that Tigre is in fear for his life, because she enjoys the attention she gets from him. Tigre may have "deceived" her by being nicer than he normally would have, but she was *using* him. Her unwillingness to face the truth and try to resolve the issue put Glen in danger, too.
But of course, no one blames Viola, because the poor girl is heartbroken. Aww :(
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Croik wrote:
Everyone always makes a big deal about poor Viola - how she had her poor heart broken realizing the man she loved doesn't love her. And to that I say...fuck that. The game does imply that the crash the two of them had was more Tigre's fault than hers, but it was still an accident - an accident that Tigre paid dearly for. It wasn't his fault that she happened to be a Cadaverini, and he had no choice but to look after her. His life was on the line if he upset her - a fact that Viola doesn't seem to dispute. But Viola, and especially Phoenix, treat it like Tigre betrayed her somehow.
Which is an attitude that shows up in romance stories I simply can't stand: that just because someone falls in love with character A, that means A has some obligation to love the person back. Everyone seems to agree that the pain of a person in love with someone who doesn't love them back trumps all sorts of circumstances. In the case of 3-3 especially I have no sympathy for Viola. She was selfish the entire time. She claims she likes Tigre because he cared about her for her, not becuase of her family, but she has no problem with him fawning over her. Whatever the reason, the truth remains that she wants a man to spoil her. If she's so desperate for attention that she accepts a simpering suck up in any form, she...needs to get out more. Go to goth clubs or something.
They also hint that Viola knew all along that Tigre was being nice to her out of fear of her grandfather. She knew he was desperate to pay back the money his life depended on. In that situation, even if she felt "hurt" by the fact that a man twice her age wasn't in love with her...why didn't she just ask her familiy to drop the issue? Did she honestly care for *him* at all, or did she only like him because he worshipped her? You'd think if any of her affection towards him was honest, she would have asked her grandfather to drop the amount and spare Tigre's life.
Obviously, Viola doesn't do that. She pretends not to know that Tigre is in fear for his life, because she enjoys the attention she gets from him. Tigre may have "deceived" her by being nicer than he normally would have, but she was *using* him. Her unwillingness to face the truth and try to resolve the issue put Glen in danger, too.
But of course, no one blames Viola, because the poor girl is heartbroken. Aww :(
Which is an attitude that shows up in romance stories I simply can't stand: that just because someone falls in love with character A, that means A has some obligation to love the person back. Everyone seems to agree that the pain of a person in love with someone who doesn't love them back trumps all sorts of circumstances. In the case of 3-3 especially I have no sympathy for Viola. She was selfish the entire time. She claims she likes Tigre because he cared about her for her, not becuase of her family, but she has no problem with him fawning over her. Whatever the reason, the truth remains that she wants a man to spoil her. If she's so desperate for attention that she accepts a simpering suck up in any form, she...needs to get out more. Go to goth clubs or something.
They also hint that Viola knew all along that Tigre was being nice to her out of fear of her grandfather. She knew he was desperate to pay back the money his life depended on. In that situation, even if she felt "hurt" by the fact that a man twice her age wasn't in love with her...why didn't she just ask her familiy to drop the issue? Did she honestly care for *him* at all, or did she only like him because he worshipped her? You'd think if any of her affection towards him was honest, she would have asked her grandfather to drop the amount and spare Tigre's life.
Obviously, Viola doesn't do that. She pretends not to know that Tigre is in fear for his life, because she enjoys the attention she gets from him. Tigre may have "deceived" her by being nicer than he normally would have, but she was *using* him. Her unwillingness to face the truth and try to resolve the issue put Glen in danger, too.
But of course, no one blames Viola, because the poor girl is heartbroken. Aww :(
No.
First, she said, quite clearly that she refused to believe that Tigre was on the other end of the crash. I don't see any reason not to believe that. And if he didn't have anything to do with the crash, there would be no reason for him to 'fear' anything to do with Viola (okay, I exaggerated, but you get the point). She thought he actually cared for her. Then Phoenix breaks her psyche-lock which held a secret even she didn't straight up admit to herself, and slaps her in the face with what really happened. He didn't care one lick about her and was just afraid of her. That's why he sucked up, and that's why he killed Glen.
She was slapped in the face with not only the fact that Furio Tigre couln't give a crap about her and was just afraid of her, but that the fact that he was so afraid of what would happen if he pissed her off that he killed someone. She indirectly caused the murder and subsequent frame-up which she called evil. Granted, she participated in it, but that was because she thought he was doing it for her sake, because he cared about her. Now she knows he doesn't give a lick, and was just a pawn in his evil plot. THAT is Viola Cadaverini's story.
She's not far from the victim, she is so, so much more.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Viola was the mastermind, but if Tigre had said that in court, he'd have had a lot more to worry about than being hanged at some point in the future.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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FerdieLance wrote:
Does anybody really believe that Mr. "That wasn't the bottle!" came up with Glen Elg's incredibly elaborate murder cover-up by himself? Does Tigre even seem like the kind of guy who would carry poison around unprompted? Does anybody wonder where he got the poison? I mean, with a girlfriend who implies she's got a big stash of poison, you'd think people would put two and two together.
Viola was the mastermind, but if Tigre had said that in court, he'd have had a lot more to worry about than being hanged at some point in the future.
Viola was the mastermind, but if Tigre had said that in court, he'd have had a lot more to worry about than being hanged at some point in the future.
oh snap! i never thought of THAT but you're right. tigre could't have been the mastermind! crap!
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Heck, the guy IMITATED phoenix in court - and got away with it. Given that insane plan...and his absurdly 'Evul' nature, I would doubt it wasn't unlikely that he had the poison on him just in case...heck, it was probably HIM who suggested going to Tres Bien in the first place given the situation there. It Should have been NO trouble at all to poison him without people seeing, then get Armstrong to dispose of the body afterwards. Had Maggey NOT even been there at all, he probably WOULD have gotten away with it.
If Viola HAD been the mastermind, the game would have strongly suggested so a lot more than what we got - so in effect, what we got WAS the truth, and no amount of false speculation is going to change this. There wasn't even an indication of anything alternative being the answer after court finished - and if you WANT the audience, who is supposedly the 12+ age group, to be able to follow the idea, then you make a greater effort to say that there was an underlying twist that wasn't being mentioned in direct terms.
It was Furio. End of story.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Quote:
Heck, the guy IMITATED phoenix in court - and got away with it.
From what we hear, he did a really lousy job, and relied on intimidation to get away with it. Do we ever see him do or say anything smart on camera?
Quote:
It Should have been NO trouble at all to poison him without people seeing, then get Armstrong to dispose of the body afterwards. Had Maggey NOT even been there at all, he probably WOULD have gotten away with it.
Hold it! Maggey was central to the plot; it was timed to concur with Kudo's regular visit and ensure that she'd take the fall. If Tigre hadn't known about Maggey's presence, he'd have had minutes to get Viola on the scene and in a uniform, hide the body, and be fully in costume as Elg. He'd also have to be aware that Kudo didn't pay attention to faces, and that he'd have time to swap the body back before the poilce got there.
Also nontrivial: He'd have to ask Viola, whom he's terrified of, to dress up in a revealing costume and be his accomplice! Why on earth did the game show us that scene where Viola scares the backbone out of Tigre, if not to establish who was really in control there?
Only someone who knew that there was exactly one customer that went to Tres Bien regularly, at a specific time of day, could have pulled it off. We know that Viola collects from Armstrong, because we witness that. If Tigre were behind the plot entirely, that scene with Viola at Tres Bien seems pretty superfluous. As it stands, we're introduced to her in the most incriminating way possible.
Quote:
If Viola HAD been the mastermind, the game would have strongly suggested so a lot more than what we got
See above.
We see Viola menacing Armstrong, we get repeated descriptions of her evil cackle, the end credits don't do her any favors, and she repeatedly implies she's going to poison people. Conversely, we never see Tigre be all that bright, and the final bluff against him depends on him being a massive idiot.
Either way, anybody who defends Viola had better be ready to admit that, at the very least, she was accomplice to murder and a key part of the frame-up.
Quote:
There wasn't even an indication of anything alternative being the answer after court finished
Aside from the part where she thanks Phoenix for "eliminating" Tigre?
Sure sounds to me like things went according to plan.
Quote:
and if you WANT the audience, who is supposedly the 12+ age group, to be able to follow the idea, then you make a greater effort to say that there was an underlying twist that wasn't being mentioned in direct terms.
"Hey, 12+ audience! Guess what? Viola orchestrated a murder, helped frame an innocent person, got rid of her unpleasant boyfriend, and got away with it all! FUN!"
Making this plot point explicit would have been... really, really dark, given the age rating. Shelly de Killer was bad enough.
---
Food for thought:
The MC Bomber virus specifically targets police records. Who used it? The only crime family that's mentioned by name in the entire game is Viola's.
Wow. That sure explains how a small-time loan shark knew the virus would be worth something. He had a buyer lined up from the beginning. If the "simplest explanation is usually the best..."
Guess Gumshoe wasn't kidding when he told Phoenix to stay away from Viola. She's prime GS5 villain material.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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It would really be a neat twist if the brought back an older Viola, now in charge of the Cadaverini family in Apollo's story.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Regy Rusty wrote:
Yeah I don't see why Viola can't have just fooled Phoenix and everyone to keep herself out of it and let Tigre take the fall all on his own. Just because the game doesn't say it, doesn't mean it didn't happen that way.
It would really be a neat twist if the brought back an older Viola, now in charge of the Cadaverini family in Apollo's story.
It would really be a neat twist if the brought back an older Viola, now in charge of the Cadaverini family in Apollo's story.
I second that. And apollo has to stop a gangwar between the cadaverinis and kitakis since the kitakis thinks that one of the cadaverinis killed one of their guy and apollo has to prove the innoscence of the framed cadaverini suspect.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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* As far as I can tell, she's incapable of forming a healthy relationship.
* Her only real means of communication is poisonous innuendo.
* Her parents are quite possibly dead - she was raised by her ailing grandfather, remember? - and soon her grandfather will be gone as well. This would explain her dependency on Tigre.
* She assumes hesitant, childish speech patterns that seem to go well past any practical purpose; she's Phoenix's age, but you couldn't tell from the way she acts.
* She seems to believe in loyalty on some level, judging by the 'thank you' in the end credits and the amount of effort it took to break her Psyche-Locks.
* THE CLINCHER: She's the best-dressed character in the game.
While plain, loud, or dumb characters rarely get any sympathy from fandom, characters who are handsome, pretty, or intelligent are guaranteed a fanbase, no matter how horrible they are. Nice-looking characters doing evil things are acting out our fantasies on some level. Some of the darker Hitchcock movies play to this impulse, and if Shakespeare had made Richard III incredibly handsome in-script, his fanbase would be legion.
I don't think it was coincidental, though, that the localizers gave both Dahlia and Viola 'floral' names; I think, consciously or subconsciously, we're supposed to draw a connection between the two.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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So no, I don't feel particularly sorry for her to be honest.
Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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I have no sympathy for her especially since she's as just an accessory to murder as Tigre.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Boring character that cooperated on a murder and framing, and in top of that, helper of a loan shark.
I hate both Tigre and her.
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Re: Why does everyone feel bad for Viola?
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Blake wrote:
Same as above ^
Boring character that cooperated on a murder and framing, and in top of that, helper of a loan shark.
I hate both Tigre and her.
Boring character that cooperated on a murder and framing, and in top of that, helper of a loan shark.
I hate both Tigre and her.
Steady on now, Tigre is one of the best thing's in this series.
After all he hurts Jean Armstrong, I think most of us could aspire to that goal and be more like him.
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