PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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It mad me think of how much the second game sucked, how depressing the third game was and how I really only had fun playing the first one in the 3rd 4th and 5th cases... cant wait 'til the 4th comes out...
Last edited by TeenDev on Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PW3 to depressing?
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Then again, I think 2:4 is one of the best cases ever, so we may not have converging opinions generally.
3:4 is certainly a massive downer, but I like shock endings once I'm over the shock :)
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Re: PW3 to depressing?
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Re: PW3 too depressing?
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Spoiler:
BTW, I think that this topic needs to be tagged for spoilers...not everyone knows the details of 3-4's untimely end, or about the fact that two of the aformentioned characters were responsible for much of TnT...
Re: PW3 too depressing?
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Personally, I really liked the progression fron GS1 to 2 to 3 (even though I liked 2 the most).
Re: PW3 too depressing?
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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TeenDev wrote:
cant wait 'til the 4th comes out...
If you thought AA3 was depressing, you're not going to be happy about what Capcom did to Phoenix in 4...
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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coffeecookiecake wrote:
in 4, the protagonist's name itself is depressing.
...The majority of the ones announced so far are
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Come to think of it, I still hear far too many people complaining about Apollo Justice before they've even played it...it's getting a little too tiresome. >>;;;
As for PW3 - it's a poignant game with many dark twists and turns.
Depressing is a good word for the bitter aftertastes 1, 4, and 5 leave on you...but the characters of 3-2 and 3-3 almost make up for it in their own way.
It actually made a friend of mine cry on her first runthrough of the major cases...but then a moment later she also declares it the best Video Game/Ace Attorney she'd ever played, moreso than FFX which she's a *big* fan of.
Go figure that one out! =D
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Sebastian Stark wrote:
It actually made a friend of mine cry on her first runthrough of the major cases...
...If I cried during the credits of AA and JFA, I was in hysterics for hours after I finished T&T ._.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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What makes it so sad is that it just sort of hit you out of nowhere.
The whole time, as you're playing it, you're thinking, "all right, Edgeworth can't lose this one, because he has a perfect record in AA, Mia can't lose this one, because we're thinking metagame and know that they wouldn't put in an unwinnable case. But something screwed up has to happen, because it scarred Mia for life."
The whole duration of the case, you're thinking, "all right, what's going to happen? This just seems so... straightforward. Most of the objections are way too easy, and Dahlia's here again, something's going to happen. A 5-year-old case about to be solved again? Kinda like 1-4. Hey, that guy looks like Godot."
Then you near the end,
Spoiler: 3-4
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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I actually never thought T&T was THAT dark. The characters seemed more colorful and off the wall for most of the cases, so it kind of took away from the drama in the first three cases (especially when Phoenix is a big pink dork in the first case - it would have been a lot more dramatic, and more effective, if they'd toned him down). Then there's 3-4, which I found more irritating than dramatic. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I never felt one lick of sympathy for Terry.
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
I honestly thought JFA was much darker, with the moral dilemmas that Phoenix went through, the bright and even annoying circus that was such a contrast to the murderer's warped motive, the introduction of the Fey's twisted family polotics before they went overboard, etc. T&T had some great moments, but it didn't give me the same tension and sometimes even discomfort that JFA did.
As for GS4, I wouldn't call it "depressing" because Phoenix seems mostly happy the entire time. But there are a few parts that made me go, "Oh my god...seriously!?" in a way that T&T was never able to do. But that falls under shocking, not depressing, I guess.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
Not a fan of Nabokov then?
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Mayhem wrote:
It was only depressing to know that by the time the last case wrapped up, that was the last time we'd see most of the characters...
Exactly >.<
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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TheRedPriest wrote:
TeenDev wrote:
cant wait 'til the 4th comes out...
If you thought AA3 was depressing, you're not going to be happy about what Capcom did to Phoenix in 4...
Spoiler:
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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In PW3, the last case is more like: "Bam! I just got a likable not-so-bad person a guilty verdict for what they did and cleared a likable not-so-good person of something they didn't do." And then they never see each other again.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
Then there's 3-4, which I found more irritating than dramatic. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I never felt one lick of sympathy for Terry.
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
Honestly, the part of that I found hard to buy was Terry being Dollie's tutor. Now, I know it's entirely possible to be brilliant at something, and not so hot at others, but given how obviously creative Dahlia was, and what we learn about her family, I don't think they'd be interested in hiring a tutor whose speech pattern was as clipped as Terry's.
coffiecookiecake wrote:
in 4, the protagonist's name itself is depressing.
Amen to that. Seriously, I know they were going for a pattern here, what with Phoenix and Apollo both having Greek mythological connotations, and the implications of "Wright" as a play on "right", and "Justice", but would it have killed them to find an alternate spelling of justice the way they did for right? Seriously, does it take that much inventiveness to spell his name "Justis"?
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Law Name Pun wrote:
In PW1 and PW2, when you corner the murderers in the later cases, the feeling is: "Bam! I just put a horrible evil person in jail while clearing a good person's name."
D'you think?
Huh.
I didn't feel that way in a few cases in AA and JFA. I thought 2:2 and 2:3 were both incredibly sad resolutions with damaged characters who were neither horrible nor evil. I don't remember having a massive amount of satisfaction over sending them to jail/execution.
1:3, too, did not have a satisfyingly evil protagonist - crimes of passion are rarely cleanly resolved and this was no exception.
I also didn't find 1:4 to be a party!party ending, because I could see how fucked up it would leave Edgeworth after the trial was over based on what we knew about him beforehand. Also, Edgeworth himself wasn't entirely a "good person" as we had been repeatedly told.
I think the games in general are quite often not cut and dried in the way they present and resolve cases (and some things they leave unresolved for yout o figure out yourself) and that's one of the reasons I really like them.
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Dilbert719 wrote:
Croik wrote:
Then there's 3-4, which I found more irritating than dramatic. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I never felt one lick of sympathy for Terry.
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
(20 year old tutor enthralled by his 14 year old client? Ewww. Sorry, just couldn't get over that.)
Honestly, the part of that I found hard to buy was Terry being Dollie's tutor. Now, I know it's entirely possible to be brilliant at something, and not so hot at others, but given how obviously creative Dahlia was, and what we learn about her family, I don't think they'd be interested in hiring a tutor whose speech pattern was as clipped as Terry's.
Love and isolation can do the craziest things to people. Love being obsessed with Dahlia to an unhealthy extent, isolation possibly resulting from that love, but moreso, prison. Possible connection to the marks on his face here-- he must've gotten them in there. Who would hire a guy with such scars, limited power of speech and outbursts to tutor their very intelligent daughter? We don't know who Terry Fawles was before, but if he tutored her (if that wasn't one big made up reason just to be with a guy she could so easily manipulate), he must've excelled at one thing, assuming they didn't go to the same school (age difference, Dahlia was in college at 21, Terry is 20. Dahlia then was 14) and didn't meet somewhere else (would be too much background info otherwise, it's not important to the plot I assume).
Even during the time in prison he must've held her in such high regards that rather than damage or doubt her, he would take his own life. That knowledge alone (remember before meeting Valerie, he fetched the necklace!) must've driven him insane.
Re: 20 vs 14 year old: Dahlia is a clever woman and well developed (albeit cruel). Girls that age tend to fall for older men easily (not that she ever did, but she seduced him. This does not imply a sexual relationship though!
). Just a thought. :o
Last edited by Ethed on Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Dilbert719 wrote:
Honestly, the part of that I found hard to buy was Terry being Dollie's tutor. Now, I know it's entirely possible to be brilliant at something, and not so hot at others, but given how obviously creative Dahlia was, and what we learn about her family, I don't think they'd be interested in hiring a tutor whose speech pattern was as clipped as Terry's.
I can imagine that Dahlia would ask for Terry, because he was so big and dumb that he was easy to manipulate. But how does someone that stupid get to BE a tutor in the first place? How could Dahlia's rich father have had a single conversation with him without tossing him out? Or was the tutor thing just something Dahlia cooked up as an excuse?
Either way, the fact that he was her tutor (and he seemed to think of it as an real position and that she honestly cared for and looked up to him) makes the "my teen angel" aspect even more creepy. If Dahlia hadn't turned out super evil he might have ended up in prison for statutory rape anyway!
(Assuming they "did" anything, which I really hope they didn't, but knowing Dahlia...)
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
If Dahlia hadn't turned out super evil he might have ended up in prison for statutory rape anyway!
(Assuming they "did" anything, which I really hope they didn't, but knowing Dahlia...)
(Assuming they "did" anything, which I really hope they didn't, but knowing Dahlia...)
*shudders* The images...
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
Dilbert719 wrote:
Honestly, the part of that I found hard to buy was Terry being Dollie's tutor. Now, I know it's entirely possible to be brilliant at something, and not so hot at others, but given how obviously creative Dahlia was, and what we learn about her family, I don't think they'd be interested in hiring a tutor whose speech pattern was as clipped as Terry's.
I can imagine that Dahlia would ask for Terry, because he was so big and dumb that he was easy to manipulate. But how does someone that stupid get to BE a tutor in the first place? How could Dahlia's rich father have had a single conversation with him without tossing him out? Or was the tutor thing just something Dahlia cooked up as an excuse?
Now, keep in mind that all we know about the way Terry acts is our interaction with him after prison. It could be that five years ago, when he was tutoring Dalia, he was moderately intelligent and could form proper sentences. Five years of incarceration and being put on death row for a crime that you didn't commit but was blamed for by the true love of your life could make anyone lose their grammatical abilities. Although, I do think he was still a little "off" in the head when he was tutoring Dalia, because to me, that makes it a little understandable. Terry is such a child at heart that Dalia's illusion of innocence pulls him in like a whirlpool. Terry sees so much of himself in Dalia's good side.
Besides, the power of love overcoming legal issues is a big part of Japanese romance, amirite?
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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On the subject of Terry Fawles: Ace Tutor
Recall that Dahlia's rich father didn't really care what happened to her, by all accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if Terry was the cheapest option within legal limits under education laws. Also, he probably spent through the nose on Valerie's education to make her a detective at 18, so wasn't terribly eager to spend money on his other daughter, who he seems to only have taken to anger Morgan in the first place. I partially advocate that Tery and Dahlia never actually did anything to stave off the horrible, horrible images, but Terry does seem like he could easily be manipulated by the promise of "this or that." Consider also that Dahlia's disguise is innocent in the extreme. It would be quite believable for her to keep putting it off, under pretense of being nervous, overwhelmed etc.
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Potato-Wave wrote:
Now, keep in mind that all we know about the way Terry acts is our interaction with him after prison. It could be that five years ago, when he was tutoring Dalia, he was moderately intelligent and could form proper sentences. Five years of incarceration and being put on death row for a crime that you didn't commit but was blamed for by the true love of your life could make anyone lose their grammatical abilities. Although, I do think he was still a little "off" in the head when he was tutoring Dalia, because to me, that makes it a little understandable. Terry is such a child at heart that Dalia's illusion of innocence pulls him in like a whirlpool. Terry sees so much of himself in Dalia's good side.
Besides, the power of love overcoming legal issues is a big part of Japanese romance, amirite?
Besides, the power of love overcoming legal issues is a big part of Japanese romance, amirite?
Considering that at the age of 20 Terry was convinced by his 14 year old student to stage a kidnapping and steal an expensive jewel with the help of a corrupt police officer...I can't really bring myself to believe that he was any smarter then than he was when we see him.
I can see prison doing a lot of things - making you more violent, more suspicious, more depressed, etc. But unless he was stuck in a hole for those 5 years I don't really see why it would make him lose any concept of grammar.
Unless he took a particularly sharp blow to the head in a riot or something, but there's no indication of that.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
Unless he took a particularly sharp blow to the head in a riot or something, but there's no indication of that.
...or did he? No indication, you say...well, he does have those marks on his face. Sure, theyre not from a "sharp blow", but it could be from an electric fence or something. In any case, I am certain that at least some form of severe mental trauma occured to him while he was in prison.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Mayhem wrote:
It was only depressing to know that by the time the last case wrapped up, that was the last time we'd see most of the characters...
^This.
I shed a manly tear of Type O Negative blood when I realised I'd never see Iris again.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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When I completed the game, I was sitting in my room at night time with the lights out (no distractions), and the music turned up really loud. The final case was just... UAUAGH EMOTION! Very intense - really really made me sad. Months after playing the game the Reminiscence music from 3-5 still depressed me.
Apart from that, as has already been mentioned, it's also sad because it's the last game in which we'll see many of the characters. After having played through 3 games with them, I've developed a bit of an attachment, as I'm sure many people have.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Brandon Strong wrote:
Croik wrote:
Unless he took a particularly sharp blow to the head in a riot or something, but there's no indication of that.
...or did he? No indication, you say...well, he does have those marks on his face. Sure, theyre not from a "sharp blow", but it could be from an electric fence or something. In any case, I am certain that at least some form of severe mental trauma occured to him while he was in prison.I dunno, a scar like that looks more like some kind of blade attack than a blow to the head (if we're talking about brain damage here).
He made equally poor decisions before and after going to prison. I think if we were meant to assume "Prison made him dumb" they would have been more explicit about it.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
I dunno, a scar like that looks more like some kind of blade attack than a blow to the head (if we're talking about brain damage here).
He made equally poor decisions before and after going to prison. I think if we were meant to assume "Prison made him dumb" they would have been more explicit about it.
I guess...but if you ask me, I think that they really didnt talk much about his time in prison anyway. Hell, they didnt seem to care when it was shown that he might have been wrongly sent there for 5 years. They being the judge.He made equally poor decisions before and after going to prison. I think if we were meant to assume "Prison made him dumb" they would have been more explicit about it.
Comparing him to phoenix in 3-1, though, (simply because of the parallels between the two men), it seems like they have normal, serious sides whenever Dahlia isnt the topic of conversation...I get the feeling that before Terry ever met Dahlia and ever went to prison (i.e. when Mr. Hawthorne hired him) he must've been a very different sort of person. At least intelligent enough to get the job in the first place, or to be looking for one.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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xylophone220 wrote:
The only way the game could've been too depressing IMO was if all the characters committed mass-suicide. Which most likely wouldn't happen :P
Now that'd be the way to end the Phoenix arc, lol.
Spoiler: 3.5
Godot, you're getting the death penalty!
Phoenix, noo! My dude-love for you cannot be severed like this! *stabs self*
My idol! Nooo! *stabs self*
Hey, look, a knife! *stabs self for the hell of it.*
Dear GOD! *gets heart attack*
... ... ... meh, I'm gonna go get a taco.
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Spoiler: 3-5
Re: PW3 too depressing? (spoilers)
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Brandon Strong wrote:
Then Mia would commit suicide while being channeled as pearl. Killing two birds with one stone, no?
Lol, that'd be suicide and murder at the same time. She'd get a posthumous death penalty.
Re: PW3 too depressing?
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QBnoYouko wrote:
I think it works out that way. The epic end of Phoenix's trilogy shouldn't be ending on some giddy note, but something with a lot more impact, which was what TaT was full of.
Unfortunately, I in my own personal opinion can't see why people consider the ending of game 3 to be remotely epic and even end Phoenix's story arc. If anything it leaves us with still plenty of old questions un-answered, and then a few new ones.I'm not sure if I find game 3 to be depressing or not, but one thing I do feel is that there were a few things that the ending should have included. (And it doesn't sound like much is answered in game 4... hopefully we get some answers in game 5... but I really do not think I can wait that long.)
(As for what I'm talking about being disapointed with the ending, I created a topic, fully detailing my problems with the ending. BECAREFUL THOUGH. MAJOR SPOILERS WITHIN LINK viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4640)
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