Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:28 am

Crimewave

◕ ◡ ◕

Gender: Male

Location: Georgia

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:12 am

Posts: 273

Dahlia was channeled by Misty Fey, correct? She then went to the Inner Temple and met Bikini. As she stated, Bikini didn't notice anything. She didn't notice she was being channeled. But when Dahlia tries to kill Maya as Misty, she looks like Misty Fey. How is this possible? She even says she did her hair up.

EDIT: Also, why did Misty simply channel Dahlia? How could that be any more safe than Pearl channeling her? If Pearl channeled her, she could go to the Inner Temple. If Misty Fey channeled her, which she did, she could go to the Inner Temple. This was before the bridge caught on fire.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:23 pm

Regy Rusty

PCHOOO

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:51 pm

Posts: 1285

I'm not sure what you mean by Dahlia looking like Misty when she attacked Maya. When you channel a spirit, you take on the appearance of the spirit you are channelling. Therefore Misty would indeed have looked like Dahlia the entire time. As for why did Misty channel her, it seemed that Misty thought she would be able to control Dahlia. Apparently a strong spirit medium is supposed to have some control over the spirit's actions (although we've never seen any examples of this...). Anyway, Misty certainly thought that, being the master of Kurain, she would be able to control Dahlia and keep her from harming anyone.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:44 pm

rtsmarty

Hi

Gender: None specified

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:41 pm

Posts: 240

Charity wrote:

Dahlia was channeled by Misty Fey, correct? She then went to the Inner Temple and met Bikini. As she stated, Bikini didn't notice anything. She didn't notice she was being channeled. But when Dahlia tries to kill Maya as Misty, she looks like Misty Fey. How is this possible? She even says she did her hair up.

EDIT: Also, why did Misty simply channel Dahlia? How could that be any more safe than Pearl channeling her? If Pearl channeled her, she could go to the Inner Temple. If Misty Fey channeled her, which she did, she could go to the Inner Temple. This was before the bridge caught on fire.

If you're referring to this image:

Ignore it. It's not what really happened.

Also Misty channeled her so as to not get Pearl involved. Godot was gonna do whatever he had to do to ensure Maya's safety... they'd already planned that. It was probably the worst plan in the world but there was one thing they'd agreed on: Not to get Pearl involved.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:44 pm

Crimewave

◕ ◡ ◕

Gender: Male

Location: Georgia

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:12 am

Posts: 273

After thinking about it for a while, I've come to the conclusion that when Misty channeled Dahlia, her body did change to reflect Dahlia's. Remember that little snippet you see in court of Misty pressed against the stone lantern? I really think that at the time of the murder, Maya couldn't actually tell it was her mother. I think that was just the mental image in Phoenix's mind.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:58 pm

Lara

If only...

Gender: Female

Location: England

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Posts: 19

Charity wrote:

EDIT: Also, why did Misty simply channel Dahlia? How could that be any more safe than Pearl channeling her? If Pearl channeled her, she could go to the Inner Temple. If Misty Fey channeled her, which she did, she could go to the Inner Temple. This was before the bridge caught on fire.

Misty chanelled Dahlia so Pearl wouldn't, this was to protect Pearl.

The lady who won a million pounds...

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:55 pm

Arcticwaters

Gender: Female

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 6:29 pm

Posts: 79

If you look at the screenshot section of CR, you can see Misty does take the form of Dahlia (as seen in the one with Godot.)

As for Pearl, I think it was msotly to keep her out of it, but I figure it might also had something to do with timing. I always thought that Misty might have chanel Dahlia sometime before 10:00, therefore throwing off the plan a bit; however just how this affected everything... I forget what I thought that actually did ^^; But, that's just what kept going through my head while playing. The major thing was prboably just to keep Pearl out of it.

I draw, see?
As puppies, lolz x3

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:07 pm

Miss Prince

Gender: None specified

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:34 am

Posts: 153

You know, Godot mentions at the end he should have told Phoenix what was up from the beginning. But even if he couldn't stand Phoenix, don't you think he could have told MAYA?

Honestly, all the horrible things that happened could have been completely avoided if Godot had explained things. Jerk.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

Gender: None specified

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:25 am

Posts: 3541

Which is why Godot comes closest to a character I hate in this series.

Putting innocent people at risk just to play superhero and get his petty revenge against a dead woman = fail.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:59 pm

DefenseNeverRests

Proud PxM shipper.

Gender: Female

Location: A dark scary place with enchanted creatures.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:03 am

Posts: 1516

Well, don't forget that Misty talked with Phoenix asking if he saw Pearl. She probably channeled soon after.

Click sig to go to my sig thread. If you would like one, you may request. Devoted Phoenix and Maya shipper. Also a Diego and Mia shipper.
My fanfic thread. Law, Lust, and Coffee currently ongoing (Miego).

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:53 pm

Deltron

Great Scott! This is Heavy!

Gender: None specified

Location: The Future.

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:37 pm

Posts: 379

Miss Prince wrote:

But even if he couldn't stand Phoenix, don't you think he could have told MAYA

Nah, he wanted to "save" her from doom, by coming to her rescue.

"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." -Doc

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:02 pm

SaviorGodot

Coffee Afficionado

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:05 pm

Posts: 201

Miss Prince wrote:

Honestly, all the horrible things that happened could have been completely avoided if Godot had explained things. Jerk.

I thought about it for a while, and I still find one big problem.

Pearl.

If Godot came to Phoenix/Maya, what would happen if they told Pearl that her mom is actually trying to kill Maya?

Remember now this girl completely flipped out at Phoenix for just talking to another woman other than Maya. (Desiree)

If they told her that Morgan was trying to kill Maya, her own mother trying to get Maya killed, it would scar her mind beyond repair. She wouldn't want to listen to Phoenix anymore. Heck she may even channel Dahlia right there to carry out her mothers wish.

As for the idea of Godot just hiding the plans after he found it, Pearl might still be thrown into despair by being unable to find them and unable to fulfill her mothers last wish.

Also, if Godot really didn't give a damn at all, and just wanted revenge, he could've let Dahlia kill Maya 1st, then kill Dahlia, who was channeled by Misty.

Ha...! Thanks to Trabztress for the awesome avatar/sig combo!

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:10 pm

Mia_Fey

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

If he had told Maya or Phoenix, there's no reason the two people Pearl trusts most couldn't have simply told her that this was a bad idea and her mother was wrong. Granted it might have taken some time, but Pearl worshipped Maya and she trusted Phoenix a great deal. On top of that, at the very least by telling Maya and Phoenix, Maya wouldn't have been over there alone. As for Godot's revenge thing, waiting until Maya was dead was never an option because this was his way of making it up to Mia for not protecting her. He also admits that he's not sure why he killed her since he knew Dahlia was dead and that the person in front of him had to be either Misty or Pearl. The plan itself may have not originally about revenge, but in that moment it certainly was. It would have been easy to knock Dahlia/Misty out and save Maya that way while sparing the medium's life, but instead he runs a blade through her. Seems to me it was about revenge. Also, in my opinion putting people in danger so you can save them doesn't make you a hero, which is exactly what Godot did.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:13 pm

SaviorGodot

Coffee Afficionado

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:05 pm

Posts: 201

Hmmmm..... the world they live in sure is strange, 'cuz despite all that, Phoenix and Maya still pretty much forgave Godot.

*or at least pitied him*

Ha...! Thanks to Trabztress for the awesome avatar/sig combo!

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:18 pm

Wrestlemania

Ready to RAWK!?

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Posts: 9051

Here's a relatively simple contradiction, which I believe solves this somewhat...

Spoiler: 3-5

Yeah though, Dahlia was just lying about that image... kind've like...

Spoiler: 2-2 and 2-3

And many, MANY others.

Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:05 pm

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

Actually, the hair of the channeling body usually remains in the shape the channeler wears. But I think Dahlia may have changed her hairstyle to look like Iris. So, the picture from Godot's narration is probably the accurate one.

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:12 pm

Miss Prince

Gender: None specified

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:34 am

Posts: 153

^ I'm pretty sure she mentions putting her hair up at some point.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:27 pm

Mia_Fey

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

Dahlia does specifically say she made herself look like Iris to frame her. The whole thing with the picture is easy to solve. The picture of Misty battling with Maya is a part of Dahlia's testimony while she is still pretending to be Iris and before it had been revealed that Misty had channeled Dahlia. Basically its a lie. As Wrestlemania pointed out with the Ini and channeled Mimi picture, the pictures don't always reveal what really happened, just what is being described as having happened. Besides the picture was important so that we could point out the contradiction in it, proving that the image was a lie.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:49 pm

SaviorGodot

Coffee Afficionado

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:05 pm

Posts: 201

I have two more questions, one of which are kind of a joke but:

1: The concept of Misty bringing that sword concealed staff.

Consider that she pretty much would use it to protect Maya, as Godot had said.

But if Misty herself used that sword, think about what that means......

The only way she herself could use it was if Pearl had channeled Dahlia first, which would mean Misty would have to kill Pearl, which is just as bad as Godot killing Misty.

Was Misty showing Godot the sword her way of saying, "If something goes wrong, use this"?

Otherwise, simply that staff being there was kinda dangerous. Especially if Dahlia had found the sword in the staff. Thankfully she didn't.

*Granted, this doesn't change the fact that things may have been easier if Godot had just gone to Phoenix/Maya/Pearl, I just want others opinion on this*

Joke question: Does anyone find it funny/odd/ironic that because of that case *I think*, Kurain started becoming famous again?

Ha...! Thanks to Trabztress for the awesome avatar/sig combo!

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:15 pm

Mia_Fey

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

I think it was mostly to show how far she was willing to go, but I can't imagine that she brought it without any intent to use it if things came to that. The point of the plan (which the stupidity of makes me want to scream) is that it should never get to that point. Pearl was supposed to go to Misty and hence never channel Dahlia, but when that doesn't work (because nobody could have foreseen that of course... as I said the stupidity makes me cringe) Misty channels Dahlia. I actually assumed that Misty channeled Dahlia so she wouldn't have to use the sword on Pearl. I don't think the point was ever for Godot to use it because Misty was carrying it. Godot wouldn't have had it if Misty hadn't been there. It amazes me (and pisses me off) that rather than just approach Phoenix and Maya, Misty and Godot were willing to risk Maya's life and possibly even kill poor little innocent Pearl.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:25 pm

SaviorGodot

Coffee Afficionado

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:05 pm

Posts: 201

*You've got some really good opinions, Mia_Fey.*

Yes, Misty's lack of considering that puzzled me, too. And let's not forget Iris.

*And to clarify, I don't consider Godot a hero. Don't let my user name fool you.*

Since that all did happen, (despite it's ridiculousness), I consider Godot the lesser of two evils.

I'd rather his plan succeed than Morgan's.

*Though I still agree that Godot should've just made a better plan*

Ha...! Thanks to Trabztress for the awesome avatar/sig combo!

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:58 pm

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

Man, when you think about it, that plan really sucked rocks, didn't it? The 'no contingency for Pearl declining the picture-book reading session' part is pretty stupid alright. If she was the key point of the plan, why wasn't she under constant supervision during that time?

I guess that's the disadvantage to starting off the construction of the story at the finish. Despite the usually excellently crafted plots, they kind of wrote themselves into a corner here. However, I wonder if it was really that impossible to give Godot a plan that looks somewhat foolproof at least before Rule #1: 'No plan survives the first encounter with the enemy' comes in.

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:24 pm

Wrestlemania

Ready to RAWK!?

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Posts: 9051

To be honest, it was Bikini's fault! She scared Pearl, and caused her to worry about her. However, Elise had no time to really consider any alternatives... If Pearl channeled Dahlia, Maya was in danger. And before anyone argues, there's another point: Pearl could've been killed by Godot. I believe that Elise knew this, and decided to sacrifice herself for her daughters' sake, hoping Godot would stop what was about to occur.

Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:30 pm

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

Quote:

To be honest, it was Bikini's fault! She scared Pearl, and caused her to worry about her. However, Elise had no time to really consider any alternatives... If Pearl channeled Dahlia, Maya was in danger. And before anyone argues, there's another point: Pearl could've been killed by Godot. I believe that Elise knew this, and decided to sacrifice herself for her daughters' sake, hoping Godot would stop what was about to occur.

All they would have had to do was to have Pearl supervised and Dahlia subdued as soon as Pearl channeled her per her mothers instructions. If Dahlia chose to stick around despite being bound and unable to do anything, there's the handy Spirit Severing Technique they could have used to get rid of her spirit. Then tell Pearl she had successfully carried out her mother's wishes, and hey presto, plot averted!

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:47 pm

Mia_Fey

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

Pearl would never had disobeyed her mother so its doubtful she was ever going to Elise's room. The letter was very clear that she had to summon Dahlia at ten and Pearl admits that she was listening very hard for the bell to ring. You'd think Elise would have known Morgan would raise her children to listen to her instructions over all else. Giving Pearl the choice on whether or not to come was stupid. She should never have been unsupervised. They should have started their reading session earlier and Elise should have gone to get Pearl. Even that might not have been good enough. Morgan and Dahlia's plan was easy to stop... tell Phoenix and Maya. Screw Godot and his inferiority complex. Screw Misty's selfishness and cowardly attitude. This plan was stupid from the start. Telling Phoenix and Maya stops Morgan's plan.

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:34 am

Wrestlemania

Ready to RAWK!?

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Posts: 9051

Also, I'll be honest with you, the Spirit Severing Technique might not even exist. The only one who brings it up is Morgan, and we can't really trust her, now can we?

Also... no... no it doesn't stop the plan. Firstly, Godot was plan B. Elise was also a part of Plan B. Elise also tried to get Pearl at least an hour prior to their meeting time, since she confronts Phoenix and asks him where she is and all.....?

See, my point is this: Godot and Elise's plan to kill her, was indeed, plan B. Plan A of subduing Dahlia wouldn't have worked anyways! I mean, what are they to gain from that? Dahlia could've stayed in the body, if the SST failed...

Finally, Pearl had ANOTHER role in the plot: "Gravely roast the master in the fires of Hades". You think she would forget that part?

Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:46 am

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

Yeah, there are so many ways to stop that plan, it isn't even funny. By not telling Phoenix and Maya, Godot essentially killed Elise twice over.

Quote:

Pearl would never had disobeyed her mother so its doubtful she was ever going to Elise's room.

That may be true, but I still think this is a beautiful little story of how it didn't need to happen.

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:49 pm

Wrestlemania

Ready to RAWK!?

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Posts: 9051

Going back though...

See, here's the weeeeird part:

How the **** did they even know that Maya would be there??? I mean, it was a retreat, but Godot said that they planned it a while ago...

Posted by Request.
Sig by Elriel. Avatar taken from a YouTube video of Rawk Hawk's Theme.
Sig changed on December 08, 2008. Avatar changed on December 14, 2008.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:36 pm

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

This is why:

Iris was an accomplice in the plan. She knew that her image in the Oh!Cult magazine would bring Phoenix along, and anyone of the planners had to know the training courses would bring Maya, and Pearl with her. Maybe Godot knew/sleuthed that Maya was getting that magazine.

But wait, did they even want to have Phoenix there?

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:46 pm

Regy Rusty

PCHOOO

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:51 pm

Posts: 1285

Don't forget who made the reservations at the Temple in the first place! Pearl! It was all a part of the plan written by Morgan. Thus, as soon as the reservations were made, Iris contacted Godot and Elise and they all got ready for their counter plan.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:57 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

Gender: None specified

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:25 am

Posts: 3541

Quizer wrote:

This is why:

Iris was an accomplice in the plan. She knew that her image in the Oh!Cult magazine would bring Phoenix along, and anyone of the planners had to know the training courses would bring Maya, and Pearl with her. Maybe Godot knew/sleuthed that Maya was getting that magazine.

But wait, did they even want to have Phoenix there?

Quizer

Iris' initial reaction to seeing Phoenix at the Inner Temple didn't exactly say "Oh, I knew you'd come" to me. I can't think of any situation where Phoenix going would help either plan, so I'm guessing it was a coincidence.

Re: Hm, this doesn't make any sense. Contains spoilers

Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:29 pm

Quizer

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Posts: 261

True enough. Maybe they didn't reckon with Phoenix coming along. But Pearl making the reservations as part of Morgans plan makes sense to me.

Quizer

Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)