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Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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I just had an epiphany. Take a look at Sven's comment - “The costs of localisation are higher than the forecasted return”, he explained on Capcom’s forums. “Could this content show up on some other platform somewhere down the line? Possibly, but there’s nothing on that front for me to talk about.”
Remember that the AAI2 Japanese release date had been set for some time. Also remember that the 3DS was released in Japan much earlier then in the West. What's my point? The 3DS is not a DS continuation, it's a new platform. Not only does it take a huge amount of R&D to start a translation project to a new system, it also would delay the already announced release date. Re-making the game for Japan would also be costly. Again, what's my point? The west did not have a set release date. So, what Sven has said,“Could this content show up on some other platform somewhere down the line? Possibly" actually makes sense. Why make a game for a dying console? It DEFINETELY would not return enough profit, with everyone switching to the 3DS (even more so in November, the previous rumored release date).
My prediction (Just a prediction!) is that Capcom won't leave us hanging, and will make a 3DS version of AAI2 sometime in the near-future. They made re-makes of previous games just to please the Western crowd! (And to make a little cash, but eh). They were also made for DS, the next-gen console after the Japanese original GBA, comprable to how the 3DS is to the DS. Perhaps, we've been looking at the whole thing a little close-mindedly!....I hope.
(Post what you think! I really hope my logic is worthy of the Edgeworth status.) 
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Back when PW:AA was released, it was at least partially made for the Japanese market; the inclusion of a new, very long case helped move units over there, as did the English translation. The game also sold surprisingly well over in the states, thus justifying further localizations and rereleases in Japan. The reasons this doesn't apply to AAI2:
- GBA -> DS is much more manageable than DS -> 3DS. Even if we allow AAI2's hypothetical remake to keep the 2D graphics, PW:AA went from 240x160 to 256x192 in graphics resolution; pretty much the same aspect ratio, and hardly much larger. It can't have been difficult to extend the sprites as needed. AAI2 would go from 256x192 to 400x240 - quite a bit higher resolution, and widescreen to boot. It would require a significant amount of graphics redrawing to look good. And bear in mind this is assuming Capcom would keep 2D graphics; making brand new 3D ones would probably cost even more.
PW:AA, as mentioned, included a new, rather long case. It's unlikely they would make such a thing for an AAI2 remake, given the game just came out a few months ago in Japan, as opposed to the 4 years or so between GS1 and PW:AA.
JFA and TaT were justified by the fact PW:AA was a sleeper hit; it moved much more than Capcom expected in the States. That coupled with the reasonable sales they could get in Japan from an English translation justified making them. Unfortunately, AA sales haven't been so hot in the states lately, and it's unlikely Japan would be interested in an English translation of a game less than a year old.
This is more hypothetical, since the 3DS could take off in the coming months, but when GS:YG came out in Japan, the DS had a fairly decent user base. The 3DS hasn't been selling quite as well as the DS as far as I know; there's just less people who could buy the game, both in America and Japan.
Or tl;dr: a 3DS remake/port would be quite a lot of cost for not very much profit potential. The "other platforms" he's mentioned seem more likely to be DSiWare to me; this would let both DSi and 3DS users purchase the game, while removing distribution and remake costs and enabling them to sell the game episodically for potentially higher profits.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Scent wrote:
A 3DS port would be too much. They'd have to recode a lot of the game to fit the top screen and make use of the 3D.
Making use of the 3D wouldn't be too hard. Just makes things prettier, 3D isn't an interactive thing it's a graphical boost.
I'd be more interested in whether they'd bust out the voice acting given it's capabilities and the revelation that Phoenix will be voice acted in PW VS Layton. That said if we did get it ported to 3DS then I'd expect cutscenes.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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3DS capabilities are not really out of the question. While it would cost a small amount to convert a few things (Widescreen sprites, 3d landscape etc.) to 3DS,even I, with my limited knowledge of 3D tech, could probably pull it off with a few at-home prgrams. Why? Because the sprites are, in actuality, still 2D. There are a few instances where it might be a bit more difficult -evidence examination, in particular- but the bulk of the game is spent either walking around a pre-drawn 2D enviroment, or confronting 2D witness sprites. The cost/time it would take to change sprite sizes and definitions is also minimal, as Capcom originally makes sprites much larger than that are actually used in-game.
As to the need of a new case, your point is valid. They wouldn't add a new one with GK2 just being released less than a year ago. However, I doubt that it would change anything. We would still buy it, new case or not, and Capcom knows it.
Also, AII has sold more units in the U.S than any of the previous AA games. While it may not compare to some other capcom games (understandably), it doesn't change the fact that AII was a hit here. Capcom made money.
I honestly wouldn't care if they remade the game as a DSiWare port. I would be just as psyched. However, I think that it wouldn't fulfill Svenson's comment of it possibly being on a different platform. Either way, I doubt that Capcom would pass by a chance to make a little cash.
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Blackspeed wrote:
Take a look at Sven's comment - “The costs of localisation are higher than the forecasted return”, he explained on Capcom’s forums.
If AAI2 not being localised is purely about money, couldn't they just release a 3DS version of Street Fighter/Megaman/whatever to make up the difference? It's not as though Capcom are hurting for money right now, seeing as they've released SF4 at least four times already.
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Blackspeed wrote:
@ Bolt Storm
3DS capabilities are not really out of the question. While it would cost a small amount to convert a few things (Widescreen sprites, 3d landscape etc.) to 3DS,even I, with my limited knowledge of 3D tech, could probably pull it off with a few at-home prgrams. Why? Because the sprites are, in actuality, still 2D. There are a few instances where it might be a bit more difficult -evidence examination, in particular- but the bulk of the game is spent either walking around a pre-drawn 2D enviroment, or confronting 2D witness sprites. The cost/time it would take to change sprite sizes and definitions is also minimal, as Capcom originally makes sprites much larger than that are actually used in-game.
3DS capabilities are not really out of the question. While it would cost a small amount to convert a few things (Widescreen sprites, 3d landscape etc.) to 3DS,even I, with my limited knowledge of 3D tech, could probably pull it off with a few at-home prgrams. Why? Because the sprites are, in actuality, still 2D. There are a few instances where it might be a bit more difficult -evidence examination, in particular- but the bulk of the game is spent either walking around a pre-drawn 2D enviroment, or confronting 2D witness sprites. The cost/time it would take to change sprite sizes and definitions is also minimal, as Capcom originally makes sprites much larger than that are actually used in-game.
True enough; it wouldn't be hard to make it "3D". But the result would be a "layered paper" effect, which wouldn't look particularly good, especially given AAI already tries to make an illusion of depth to a small degree (for instance, walking to the back of an area shrinks Edgeworth's sprite.) When I said 3D in my post, I meant making 3D models for the characters, as Professor Layton did, which would enable them to make a proper 3D effect. As for the backgrounds, I don't know how Capcom could make them 3D; Layton 5's backgrounds seem like 2D images but presumably have a 3D effect, but I don't know how that's done or how much work it is.
As for redrawing the game for widescreen/a higher resolution, while the sprites might have higher-res bases, they still would need to be redrawn and reanimated. And areas that are only one screen wide would need to be expanded entirely. That sort of graphics work adds up.
Quote:
As to the need of a new case, your point is valid. They wouldn't add a new one with GK2 just being released less than a year ago. However, I doubt that it would change anything. We would still buy it, new case or not, and Capcom knows it.
The point I was trying to make was that the previous games (in particular AA1-3) were justifiably localizable due to both English and Japanese sales. AJ, AAI, and AAI2 lost the Japanese market due to being new games, and so are afloat entirely on US sales... which weren't very good at all for AAI (80k tops, according to Chris Svensson).
Quote:
Also, AII has sold more units in the U.S than any of the previous AA games. While it may not compare to some other capcom games (understandably), it doesn't change the fact that AII was a hit here. Capcom made money.
I'm sorry, but could I get a source on this? I remember Chris Svensson responding to sales claims over at Capcom-Unity by noting that VGChartz's numbers are at least twice what the games actually sold (which is where I'm getting the 80k for AAI from - 160k/2, being optimistic.)
Quote:
I honestly wouldn't care if they remade the game as a DSiWare port. I would be just as psyched. However, I think that it wouldn't fulfill Svenson's comment of it possibly being on a different platform. Either way, I doubt that Capcom would pass by a chance to make a little cash.
Assuming the game would turn a profit (the reduced cost of digital distribution might make the difference), the question is "would it profit enough?" Capcom doesn't have unlimited resources; they'd rather put localizers to work on titles likely to sell more for less work (like RE: Mercenaries) and make money from that instead. It's just a large-scale version of "would you rather get $5 or $20 for working for an hour?"
NinjaMoney wrote:
If AAI2 not being localised is purely about money, couldn't they just release a 3DS version of Street Fighter/Megaman/whatever to make up the difference? It's not as though Capcom are hurting for money right now, seeing as they've released SF4 at least four times already.
Nice as that would be, it's pretty rare for a big company like Capcom to take a loss on a product just for some fan goodwill. Even if some new title made enough to cover the loss on AAI2, that's still money they could have had without needing to cover any such loss.
Apologies if I seem bleak here, I'm just trying to be realistic about why Capcom isn't interested at the moment.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Besides, apparently Nintendo still thinks DS games are a viable market, Kirby Mass Attack comes out next fall.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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And to address the whole thing looking wonky in 3D, I agree with you: it would.
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Blackspeed wrote:
My source was Ace-Attorney Wiki. In sheer numbers, from what I recall, AAI beat out AA sales in the states.
And to address the whole thing looking wonky in 3D, I agree with you: it would.
And to address the whole thing looking wonky in 3D, I agree with you: it would.
Don't be silly, if they think it would look wonky they would just redo it so it wasn't.
Denying the possibility something can ever be brought up to modern 3D models and graphics just just like saying "Oh sorry medieval forces we can't give you guns to fight the invading 20ft space aliens they just wouldn't look right with you".
if they wanted to utilise 3D graphics for it I'm sure it would work out fine, they'd just redesign a style.
Though I feel if they did do it some people would still whine anyway that it wasn't the same.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Bolt Storm wrote:
None of us are saying they couldn't; we're saying that the cost of doing so would be prohibitive with such a low forecasted return.
Yes. Since Capcom doesn't want to localize do to profit concerns, if 3D up-conversion cost any large amount of money, they would not be very unlikely to do it. It may not cost a large amount, however, so it is very much in the realm of possibility if it ever ends up being put on the 3DS.
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I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something. Maybe, the release for AAI2 might actually tie in with the fact that the 3DS's price starting August...something, is going down about $80. Somehow, I'm sure it ties in so that Capcom is making profit somewhere. I'm just a little bummed that I'm gonna have to buy a 3DS if I wanna play AAI2...yeah there are other fun games too but I'm still a little tiny bit bummed. Although I am looking forward to PL vs. AA...so I might just change my mind..hmm...
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I mean, I guess you're right...
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
Gragh how can you not see it's a new console?
What would it take? 3 screens? Actual lasers you fire at stuff? The ability to suck the player into the screen?
Amped up everything = new console.
Really the only differences between the PS2 and 3 is in what it can do, the same difference is true of DS and 3DS.
Sorry...just hate it when people are indecisive on that matter.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I mean, I guess you're right...
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
And Nintendo wonders why it's not selling. The 3DS isn't like the DSi or DS Lite, it's a totally new handheld. The 3DS is to the DS as the DS was to the GBA.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Pierre wrote:
PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I mean, I guess you're right...
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
Gragh how can you not see it's a new console?
What would it take? 3 screens? Actual lasers you fire at stuff? The ability to suck the player into the screen?
Amped up everything = new console.
Really the only differences between the PS2 and 3 is in what it can do, the same difference is true of DS and 3DS.
Sorry...just hate it when people are indecisive on that matter.
Geez...snappish..
I never said that the 3DS was bad or anything, I just didn't think it was a new console...Anyways, I don't think it's a new console, because think about it. It still has 2 screens, it's still handheld, the controls are pretty similar. The only thing that has changed is that you can play games in 3D and there are new features to the menu...
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Last edited by PhoenixFlower16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Bolt Storm wrote:
PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I mean, I guess you're right...
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
And Nintendo wonders why it's not selling. The 3DS isn't like the DSi or DS Lite, it's a totally new handheld. The 3DS is to the DS as the DS was to the GBA.
Well since everyone else is snapping at me, the SP was actually the step up from the GBA. You can't really compare the DS and GBA. Anyways, it's like...it still has 2 screens, the controls are pretty much the same...it's just in 3D and it has a bunch of new features.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
Pierre wrote:
PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I mean, I guess you're right...
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
I don't know if I would argue that the 3DS is a completely new console...I still think it's a continuation of the DS...however yes the software and everything on it is new...hmm..you may be onto something.
Gragh how can you not see it's a new console?
What would it take? 3 screens? Actual lasers you fire at stuff? The ability to suck the player into the screen?
Amped up everything = new console.
Really the only differences between the PS2 and 3 is in what it can do, the same difference is true of DS and 3DS.
Sorry...just hate it when people are indecisive on that matter.
Geez...snappish..
I never said that the 3DS was bad or anything, I just didn't think it was a new console...Anyways, I don't think it's a new console, because think about it. It still has 2 screens, it's still handheld, the controls are pretty similar. The only thing that has changed is that you can play games in 3D and there are new features to the menu...Double posting is bad.
And lets run with your logic for a second shall we?
A PS2 is a black rectangular block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject a disk, has a controller with 4 shoulder buttons, 4 'shape' buttons, a d-pad and dual analogue sticks.
A PS3 is a black block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject disks, has a (albeit wireless) controller that's identical to the PS2 controller with an added button for wireless connectivity.
Are they the same console?
Really a console should be judged on the software it can run not on such simple features in which case the 3DS guns the DS out of the water. The handheld DS model had a good design good for carrying around and the dual screens feature is useful for oh so many things, just because they decide to use a similar casing for new technology doesn't mean it's the same console.
Also you can't just 'play games in 3D' you couldn't pop like New Super Mario Brothers (the classic DS game) in a 3DS and all of a sudden Mario is popping out the screen, you can play 3DS games in 3D because they are actually for the console and it is backwards compatible with DS games.
And the SP isn't really a step up from GBA in the same way as 3DS and DS, it didn't add any new content just a few hardware improvements.
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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Quote:
Double posting is bad.
And lets run with your logic for a second shall we?
A PS2 is a black rectangular block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject a disk, has a controller with 4 shoulder buttons, 4 'shape' buttons, a d-pad and dual analogue sticks.
A PS3 is a black block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject disks, has a (albeit wireless) controller that's identical to the PS2 controller with an added button for wireless connectivity.
Are they the same console?
Really a console should be judged on the software it can run not on such simple features in which case the 3DS guns the DS out of the water. The handheld DS model had a good design good for carrying around and the dual screens feature is useful for oh so many things, just because they decide to use a similar casing for new technology doesn't mean it's the same console.
Also you can't just 'play games in 3D' you couldn't pop like New Super Mario Brothers (the classic DS game) in a 3DS and all of a sudden Mario is popping out the screen, you can play 3DS games in 3D because they are actually for the console and it is backwards compatible with DS games.
And the SP isn't really a step up from GBA in the same way as 3DS and DS, it didn't add any new content just a few hardware improvements.
And lets run with your logic for a second shall we?
A PS2 is a black rectangular block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject a disk, has a controller with 4 shoulder buttons, 4 'shape' buttons, a d-pad and dual analogue sticks.
A PS3 is a black block that plays disks, has a button to power on and eject disks, has a (albeit wireless) controller that's identical to the PS2 controller with an added button for wireless connectivity.
Are they the same console?
Really a console should be judged on the software it can run not on such simple features in which case the 3DS guns the DS out of the water. The handheld DS model had a good design good for carrying around and the dual screens feature is useful for oh so many things, just because they decide to use a similar casing for new technology doesn't mean it's the same console.
Also you can't just 'play games in 3D' you couldn't pop like New Super Mario Brothers (the classic DS game) in a 3DS and all of a sudden Mario is popping out the screen, you can play 3DS games in 3D because they are actually for the console and it is backwards compatible with DS games.
And the SP isn't really a step up from GBA in the same way as 3DS and DS, it didn't add any new content just a few hardware improvements.
I wasn't double posting. I was replying to two different people who disagree with me.
And alright fine, you win. I have my opinions and you have yours. I get what you're saying. You don't have to thoroughly convince me of your ideas...Sheesh...
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Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
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You know how Sven pretty much said "No" in the Capcom Unity interview? Well, he's updated it to a "Maybe". HE'S UPDATED TO A "MAYBE"! If that's not progress, I don't know what is! C'mon, I can't even think of a single time when a game publisher said "Maybe" and not delivered in the end. please don't stone me with objections. This may be our big break
(It might just show that our plight has not gone unheard!)
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PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I wasn't double posting. I was replying to two different people who disagree with me.
And alright fine, you win. I have my opinions and you have yours. I get what you're saying. You don't have to thoroughly convince me of your ideas...Sheesh...
And alright fine, you win. I have my opinions and you have yours. I get what you're saying. You don't have to thoroughly convince me of your ideas...Sheesh...
This is not a matter of opinions, but a matter of facts.
The 3DS is a completely new handheld, fact. It's the successor of the NDS series, not an upgraded part of the NDS series (like the DS lite, DSi, or DSi XL).
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Lusankya wrote:
PhoenixFlower16 wrote:
I wasn't double posting. I was replying to two different people who disagree with me.
And alright fine, you win. I have my opinions and you have yours. I get what you're saying. You don't have to thoroughly convince me of your ideas...Sheesh...
And alright fine, you win. I have my opinions and you have yours. I get what you're saying. You don't have to thoroughly convince me of your ideas...Sheesh...
This is not a matter of opinions, but a matter of facts.
The 3DS is a completely new handheld, fact. It's the successor of the NDS series, not an upgraded part of the NDS series (like the DS lite, DSi, or DSi XL).
Yes okay, yes you're right. It's a new console. You have all convinced me...thank you.
"Dilon mein tum apne betabiyaan leke chal rahe ho, toh zinda ho tum..."
"If you carry impatience in your heart, you are alive..."
Re: Epiphany! (AAI2 thoughts)
I set unicorns on fire for fun. :D
Gender: Female
Location: Behind you!
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:09 am
Posts: 39
Blackspeed wrote:
Well guys, it looks like AAI2 has taken a step towards the better:
You know how Sven pretty much said "No" in the Capcom Unity interview? Well, he's updated it to a "Maybe". HE'S UPDATED TO A "MAYBE"! If that's not progress, I don't know what is! C'mon, I can't even think of a single time when a game publisher said "Maybe" and not delivered in the end. please don't stone me with objections. This may be our big break (It might just show that our plight has not gone unheard!)
You know how Sven pretty much said "No" in the Capcom Unity interview? Well, he's updated it to a "Maybe". HE'S UPDATED TO A "MAYBE"! If that's not progress, I don't know what is! C'mon, I can't even think of a single time when a game publisher said "Maybe" and not delivered in the end. please don't stone me with objections. This may be our big break
(It might just show that our plight has not gone unheard!)That gives me hope, even if just a little bit.
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