I'm curious who this is... Wocky Kitaki?

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Yes.

C-A

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Hey! I haven't posted here in a while, but I was keeping up with the news and I figured now was a good time to comment.

First off, it goes without saying I'm excited about this game. More AA is always good!

Regarding Ace Attorney 6, I have a very positive feeling about the game. I really enjoyed Dual Destinies. I agree with people that the game was too easy and too hand-holdy, although difficulty has never been important to me in AA games. I also think the plot was maybe a little too complicated because they were trying to re-introduce Phoenix, continue Apollo's story and introduce Athena all at the same time. Still, I was very happy. As I've said many times, I was introduced to the series through Apollo Justice, and what I wanted out of GS5 was a game that gave me a true sequel to that game. While Phoenix was really the marketing focus of the game, Apollo was in some ways one of the central characters to the story and I think he got a good deal of screentime. Only real thing I felt that the story failed to do was expand on (or even mention) the jury system from AJ. (This still gets me because they wouldn't have even had to alter the gameplay system at all. All they'd have to do it turn the penalty bar into a "jury approval bar".) Anyway, When I saw the end credits of DD roll, I actually felt satisfied enough that I would have been ok with DD being the last localized game. It told a pretty good story that ended on a good note.
I don't think the plot of AJ really left that many plot mysteries.(Except for the whole sibling thing which probably shouldn't have been a mystery in the first place because I can't imagine the reveal to actually be that dramatic/important in the overall story. They basically act like siblings anway.) I was much more interested in seeing a game where Apollo's story was developed. AA games always have the playable protagonist be kind of a bystander in the overall plot, while the other characters end up being the focus of the plot. True to this, AJ was really a game about Phoenix's story, and I wanted a game that really fleshed out Apollo. While initially disappointed at Phoenix's return to the spotlight in DD, I was actually happy with it in the long run because Apollo's backstory ended up being an important part of the plot (and we got to play as Apollo in a couple cases). That excitement of getting a sequel to Apollo Justice really made the hype for DD extreme.

With that in mind, GS6 is going to be different for me. The series and Apollo had a triumphant return, and it gave a satisfying ending. Now what we get next is not "Oh man, finally they're going back to the part of the timeline and the characters they've been ignoring" but it "the last one was good, so its great to get another chapter". I'm glad that they are experimenting and shaking the gameplay of the franchise up a bit. They've already proven they can make a faithful-to-the-OT vanilla Ace Attorney game, so I'm glad they're not repeating themselves. As I stated before, my need for Apollo in DD was mainly because I didn't want him to be ignored after being introduced but not expanded on in AJ. Since I was happy with his portrayal and screentime in DD, I'm actually ok with him being mostly absent in this one. Because of the benefit of having DD rotate out 3 playable characters, Athena has already been playable and had a lot of character development (being the central character of DD) so I'm ok with her having less presence as well this time. I'd feel disappointed about not seeing them at all, but I'd be ok seeing them for only 1 case or something along those lines. I was indifferent towards potentially seeing Maya in DD, as I didn't really feel like there was anything new for her to do or be different from her portrayal in the OT. GS6, based on the emphasis on spiritual concepts in court, makes for a lot potential in the Maya department. I do think she should be brought back in a new and interesting way, rather than just have her be your assistant again or the defendant again.

I'm really disappointed that DGS doesn't seem to be going to be released any time soon. I think its a little interesting that the different-looking game featuring Phoenix in another country that is focused on spirits is being localized, but the game that takes place in London, has pretty traditional court gameplay and features Sherlock Holmes isn't. To my knowledge, from what we've heard from Capcom, GS1 was localized and sold a ton of copies, so Capcom started localizing GS2, GS3, and AJ and released them all realy quickly after another. Those ended up not selling as well, but they localized AAI anyway, and that game didn't sell well at all. That led to GK2 not being localized, but DD was localized as like a kind of last-resort, "show us you want this" kind of thing. By the fact that this next game is being localized, DD seems to have done well, so it seems like it would have made sense to translate DGS with the assumption that the eShop was a good middle-ground between the number of fans and Capcom's budget. I haven't ever talked to an AA fan who loves the main games but doesn't bother trying out AAI, so it seems like DGS would probably sell as well as this next one would. I'm kind of glad I didn't get my hopes up and start to read all about it, as being generally uninformed about it I'm not as sad as I would be.

Overall, I'm looking forward to this one. It looks different in a good way.

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Come on, now. Wocky's a straight up G.



There isn't much info on how DD did in the west on the internet, but Capcom said it at the very least met expectations. I think they've seen that the main series does pretty well here. Capcom seems to know the name "Phoenix Wright" sells, hence their insisting that he be included in AJ and probably partly why DD stars him.

Though I will confess I'd be a bit disappointed if Apollo took the backseat on this one, which'll probably be the case. Phoenix, for me, has developed into a likable mentor, and I'm not sure how he'd fair as an MC for 4+ new cases.

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Please bring back Iris
Please bring back Iris
Please bring back Iris

:(

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1. Fey family is over.

2. She was a boring, stupid character, why would you want her back?

C-A

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100% true indisputable fact brought to you by CatMuto.
(Colorblind, so not sure if the right color)

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While Iris wasn't a particularly strong character, I can see the appeal of bringing her back because its the one aspect of Phoenix's life that hasn't been covered to death already. I'm kind of indifferent towards Iris at this point because I think if they brought her back she would probably become a lot more of an interesting/developed character (assuming they had a plan and it wasn't just her dropping in for now reason). She was basically the plot-twist Raiden-like gimmick in the game so the game wasn't focused on trying to develop her. Her main functions were to A) Find a way to explain how Dahlia was able to teleport, commit 3-5's crime, etc. and B) to provide a way for Phoenix's love story to end on a happy note. Considering Dahlia isn't a player in this drama anymore, I would think if Iris came back it could be done in a completely new context, which could give some depth to the character. I don't really think its a possibility, though, because this game (at least now) seems to be a "Phoenix in another country"/"Hero goes somewhere else and brings justice there" kind of story, not a real personal, reflective game about Phoenix's life. Also she'll probably be in jail for a couple more years so unless he just visits her at one point in a case (which again might be kind of nice but I can't figure out a way they'd make her important to the plot) I don't see it happening.

Honestly I think we're done getting backstory/character development for Phoenix at this point. The first game covered his childhood, Second game showed how he acted when confronted by the moral dilemmas of his job, third game covered his relationships and his role in the Fey family, and the 4th one showed how he progressed as an adult/father and sought the truth even when everything was taken away from him. Dual destinies really didn't add anything because he took over the mentor/obi-wan kenobi role while the other characters got the spotlight in the story. Phoenix was just the catalyst for everything working out. I think that's what his role will be in Ace Attorney 6. He'll go to another country, meet the new characters, and through the law help them work out their baggage but I don't think Phoenix himself will have any kind of personal epiphany. And I'm actually ok with that because it gives a chance for new characters to develop rather than have another hidden chapter of Phoenix's life added.

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You mean the part of him that was a whiny, obnoxious man-child?

'Feenie' was a terrible aspect of Phoenix and I absolutely agree with Mia's statement that 'The P on his shirt doesn't even stand for Phoenix'! And even if one ignores that aspect, it deals with his love life. Which we all know, they will never put into focus, because it would bug the fanbase so much, because everyone has their own, different opinion on Phoenix' partner.

Another problem with Iris is that... she doesn't really 'work' without Dahlia. In fact, as you mention, McCoy, I don't like the idea that she was brought in to give Phoenix' first love story a happy ending. Maybe I like bittersweet or bad endings more, but I think it would've worked better had Phoenix' romance with Dahlia always been with Dahlia. It would have given Phoenix a reason to become more mature, to maybe even have moments of distrusting people who are too kind, because he's had such bad experience of being burned by someone like that. And yet, all we get is that he finds it cowardly to use poison as a way to kill someone. (I could think of more cowardly ways, but if you wanna say so, Phoenix, go ahead)

And one of Iris' big gimmicks was that she was under Dahlia's thumb a lot. With Dahlia gone, there's no-one to really force Iris to do things. She seems quite happy in Hazakurain with Bikini and I think she would return there, post-jail, since she still thinks that she needs to 'atone for her sins'. The rest of her personality was Yamato Nadeshiko. And we didn't get to see the would-do-anything-to-protect-her-family-and-loved-ones, aside from words. And those were, 'If my sister had tried to harm you, I would've raised my hand against her'. Which, I've stated before, are just words and it doesn't mean anything without proper actions.

C-A

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Which is totally Mystic Maya.

Just like everything else she says. For future reference, the sarcasm color is FF8000.

Pffft, we all know Phoenix is going to die before he settles with a partner.

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Pffft, we all know Phoenix is going to die before he settles with a partner.[/quote]
....Remind me of all the things he's survived again. Also how old is he currently? Only 34, likely 35 in AA6.

from the scans it seems the game moves towards the supernatural again as in DD it wasn't that apparent. However, I am afraid it might get too wacky with all the gimmicks in order to find contradictions and such not to mention that some of the characters could use more development apart from phoenix since in DD he only appeared as a jack of all trades in order to support the development of athena as a new character. I would like to add Apollo as well but it still seems to me that he still needs to be more in the foreground. So many things about him in his game still remain unresolved imo.

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Tch, we all know deep within ourselves that Phoenix has had a man-crush on Edgey, ever since they were 9 years old and in class together. (He DID repeatedly try to contact Edgey AND became a lawyer simply because he wanted to see Edgey again)



I personally would prefer if they stayed far away from the supernatural aspect, considering we had JFA and T&T focusing heavily on it.

C-A

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...He's bi.
Also, what does C-A mean?

I was thinking more how this AJ-era enigmatic Phoenix handled his relationships. But your post reminded me that while I can see a way for a story to develop to give Iris and Phoenix a complicated and interesting storyline, (one focused more on the complicated circumstances of the lives rather than a love story or anything - it's not like they'd suddenly be all over each other. I almost see him going to visit her in order to talk to someone about his problems, almost like a councilor more than anything actually romantic) they would never bring her back in that fashion or something else that subtle, and her returning would mean that she's either involved in another crime or she'd suddenly be Phoenix's girlfriend or something.

I totally agree that the "feenie" stuff was overdone. Like I said, I can't imagine their relationship would suddenly be great, even though it turned out he went out with her rather than Dahlia. You mention the whole "If she'd tried to hurt you, I would have done what I needed to do thing", and I always felt that whole thing was kind of pointless, not because it's just words but rather it doesn't make a lot of sense with the rest of the case. If I was Phoenix I'd be thinking "Well, that's great that you'd stop her from killing me, but do you think you could have stopped the whole "murder and framing of my friends and (basically) family?" So I agree that it was a little more "everything's wrapped up" than I'd like, but knowing the writers you know they were going to make everything work out perfectly at the end of this one.

I think my interest in Iris was mainly before DD came out. AJ-era Phoenix is really interesting and AJ didn't get into his psyche too much. He's someone who rose to fame extremely quickly by basing his entire life on bluffs and guesses, and then lost all of that because of that same technique. He loses his life's work and ends up with a kid. That disheveled-looking, piano player Phoenix who probably can't make enough money to provide for his daughter and yet is seeking the truth of what happened is really interesting compared to the Phoenix we saw in GS1-3.

Iris is someone who was used by her sister for years and years and ended up being forced to harm the guy she loved. Divided between her familial bonds and her sense of right and wrong, she ends up in this weird place where she's (kind-of) innocent and her issues with Wright seem to be wrapped up but she's going to be jail for years and years. She hasn't really lived her own life or made her place in the world, based on the years of being bizarro-Dahlia, being a nun at the temple, and now in prison.
So you have these two people who are getting older and are not in a place in society that they'd like to be. They'll never be outright lovers because of the baggage and the literal wall of the detention center that divides them, so I see them more as complicated friends who might rely on each other's emotional strength from time to time.

But like I said, an AA game wouldn't (and probably couldn't) be that subtle or get into that. If she returned it would be as either victim/defendant or love interest. Also as much as I like DD, they pretty much made Phoenix a badass again as soon as he got his badge back, so all of that stuff is gone now.

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Phoenix didn't lose the case or was disbarred because one of his bluffs blew up in his face. He lost the case because he was a moron who actually thought, "No idea what this is, but I'll present it and just plain lie about what it obviously means, though I have no idea what it is, I didn't read this thing".

Yes, it was ultimately forged, a thing that should be thrown out the window because Phoenix became Zack's lawyer the day before, it's an impossibility that he hired Drew to re-create the diary/page in that short amount of time. But I'll go into that when I LP AJ...



As I've said, I feel like Iris is quite happy in the temple with Bikini. She says she's there to atone for sins, but overall admits that she's happy that she was abandoned by her father there, since Bikini was such a wonderful parental figure to her. So I don't think she'd really care about having a place in 'society' since she's happy where she is.



Of course. Because as we all know, having an emotionally crippled and searching-for-bettering-themselves hero is absolutely boring to have.

C-A

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To be fair... it has gotten boring to have an emotionally crippled hero who seeks to better themselves if in the end they don't really better themselves, as in a lot of terrible movies I've seen lately.

I expect that they don't have much to "expand" on Phoenix's story, given that they've moved him out of his home country. Still, a different story can be written with him at the helm if it involves just how epic of a legacy they want him to leave. In a way, it's quite poetic in terms of the series history; a humble and self-made man who at first got into law for the sake of a friend eventually transforms into one of the legal world's greatest and most influential figures.

I can't say I agree that we should leave AJ-Nick out completely, but then again, it was just a phase... just like how Feenie was handled. In my wholeheartedly honest opinion, Nick would make an excellent actor if he wasn't a lawyer already.

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Despite its overuse, it can be done right, but it's a very fine line between being done well and then being so stupid that you're wondering how exactly they 'changed'.

Also, Phoenix as an actor? He sucks at keeping up a pokerface, he could never be an actor.

C-A

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Having a pokerface or not doesn't mean anything toward being a great actor. All one really needs is lots of charisma, great sportsmanship, an annoying quirk or two and a thick skin.

Then again, Phoenix with a thick skin... probably never. :p

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An actor needs to be able to have a decent poker face, so when a scene calls for stoic expression while other people around you are laughing or crying, you need to be able to do that. (One reason why I know I can't be an actor, I have a tendency to grin for no reason - though I might make an awesome Joker-like villain)

C-A

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It's IMO very limited what you can do with one chraacter before their arc and development seems unbelievable. The reason we follow a protagonist in a story (from a literary POV) is because they are the focus of the story and there is something special to that journey they go through. If the plot itself of PWAA had been different, like if Edgeworth had been a rookie and Phoenix was a skilled and talented lawyer, the title would've probably read "Miles Edgeworth - Ace Prosecutor" and you'd play as Edgeworth. The original trilogy was about Phoenix's journey from newb to confident and talented defense attorney... so that story was told. Making him a bum in AJAA was a way to make his character arc interesting again, and DD kind of just negated that, and now once again, there's not much to tell -- without it becoming unbelievable.

I mean, there's only so much you can add to one character's arc and development before they start to look like a Mary Sue. Look at Shepard from Mass Effect for example >:D

(I know Mary Sues are mostly defined as fan-made characters that are too obviously self-inserts in how they're not placed plausibly within the setting or in relation to the other already established characters... in my version Mary Sue simply means an idealized character that is characterized as "so good they keep saving the day and everyone loves them", and there's almost no negative trait or uncomfortable traits to see and nothing that makes them interesting or believable (anymore))

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Confident, sure. But I do not see dumb luck being a talent. It's like Jonouchi's deck in YuGiOh, it's eventually based on gambling and can backfire horribly. (He still wins when necessary because he's, you know, a hero... though his win over Yuugi at the end of Battle City isn't shown... guess we didn't want to show him losing until the end, when it was really, really important - and not just momentary drama required to be created, like in Duelist Kingdom)



But he didn't have a character arc! He was more of an aloof mentor, but otherwise didn't prove that "Hey, I changed over the last 7 years and see me change even more, over the course of the months this game takes". Only difference is, he's a bit more aggresive and openly snarky, instead of keeping his snark to himself. And those changes just happened, we didn't see them begin to develop.



Oh, no need to explain. There are things called Canon Sues, after all. Those include, according to some people, Miaka from Fushigi Yuugi or, in my opinion, Hana Sugurono in 7 Seeds. (I'd personally also add Tear from Tales of the Abyss into that list)

C-A

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Fun fact: according to Takumi, the reason Phoenix was studying art in 3-1 was because he wanted to become a Shakespearean actor.

D'aww...

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...Sh-Shakespeare?

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I'd agree with you. While many parts of the original trilogy weren't focusing on Phoenix in particular, he was always developing. His backstory (however minor it was) was expanded upon as he and Edgeworth acted as co-developing foils, before he was confronted about the moral difficulties of the profession, before ending in a tying of his story and everyone else's together. Phoenix, in my opinion, didn't really have too much more lawyerly development to go through after that, so a fall from grace and being forced into an independent role seemed to work well. His transition from a straight-man snarker into a less serious jokester was particularly convincing.

Yeah, DD did take away most of the appeal of AJ Phoenix for me. Not that they could've done much while remaining in the AA formula, I just think he's not suited for the role of protagonist at this point. It was mentioned by the developers that Phoenix wasn't being challenged in Japan(ifornia) anymore – isn't that a good sign that your character is pretty fully developed?



This is amazing. I can picture it now: College Phoenix performing the role of Bottom from a Midsummer Night's Dream.

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And according to Ms. Suekane, he was studying a slightly different type of art... to be a mangaka. Now, as we all know, Takumi's word is the law in these games :p, so we all know he wouldn't really have succeeded as a mangaka.


I'd agree with both of you... but I can tell this game isn't that kind of story. Any character can be developed in different ways. If one route has been just about fully explored, pick another. And since Capcom is milking this franchise dry, it can't be anyone else but Nick to take the lead.

An AA game set in a foreign country is one of those ideas that I've long been waiting for. It'd be a good chance to find some new leads to follow, especially if Yamazaki & co. love to take up government conspiracies to their plot roster. That's not something to touch on their home turf. And while they've already played a card like it in the AAI games, this is the first time a mainstream game has shifted focus away from the characters themselves. I've always respected the mysteries his team comes up with, and I sure am excited to see what's coming.

As for actual character development... it'd be nice too, but it'll be almost exclusive to the new characters.

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That sounds like they should make a game where Phoenix says, "You know, now that I have my badge back... I'll go and take a vacation from law. Now that I'm flush again, somewhat, I think I'll go take some piano lessons and go back to being a piano player." Something to make him do something else and explore a different part of something he might enjoy. Not just drop him into a new environment and call it done.



Which would be nice, but the problem with new characters is that they'll either result in stealing the spotlight (like Athena in GS5) or their development will be so rushed that it feels unfinished and then you have a character that you're supposed to like because they developed, but can't because... well, they didn't develop properly/enough.

C-A

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she's right actually

Picking another route doesn't mean he has to swerve completely off course. He's still a lawyer, and following DD, he's back in the business. Still, after introducing Athena, even with my wild imagination, I had trouble coming up with a new twist to the next game that wouldn't feel like a carbon copy of DD or a ripoff of the AAI duo.

The only other idea I could think up was changing the environment altogether, since changing the protagonist wasn't an option.

And as how I see it, it's the character development where the different culture of a new environment can come into play. When there's greater contrast between the protagonist and his surroundings, there's much more to explore, experiment, and maybe learn. Well, I've always been keen toward subjects dealing with the paranormal anyway, but there's something for everyone. Nick is on a mission to overturn this supposedly "outdated" legal system, right? Imagine what trouble he might actually get himself into...

Since we barely have any info so far, I shouldn't jump to conclusions, but I think this game won't be like the witch trials of PLvsAA. They'll still be classic AA trials, but disguised under a new light. (That said, mob cross-examinations is one of the best things to come out of recent AA games. I hope they'll try to incorporate some testimony-to-testimony mashing like that in this new game.)

But above all, there is no way in heck that they'll leave out the 3D investigation. It was a selling point of the last game, for crying out loud. It is something the Layton games generally lack in their investigative segments.

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Quick question to all of you who worry too much about how AA6 is gonna turn out in terms of quality: have you noticed that you're worrying too much about how AA6 is gonna turn out in terms of quality?

As for the believability of AA stories, as well as that of stories in general: don't we always read/play a story in order to strengthen the bridges between the extraordinary 'might be' and the somewhat ordinary 'is'? To me, a story with human characters (like any of the Ace Attorney games) is believable not based on whether statistically (ugh!) unlikely things happen or not, but whether the characters' personae are fleshed-out in a psychologically and emotionally relatable way, and that's the only believability I'll ever dare to demand of Ace Attorney. As far as I'm concerned, they've passed all the tests so far.

Also, it's kinda funny how I see people complaining about games, TV shows, films etc. all the time. It's entertainment given almost freely, so why complain about the quality so much? I'm guessing this phenomenon probably occurs due to people relying too much on those kinds of media for their personal fulfillment. On one hand, entertainment has only ever been possible when and where there's been an abundance of resources. Yet, at the same time, on the other hand, people often act like entertainment's their primary resource, even a vital one! Don't get me wrong, art IS a real resource, but then what's the real problem here? If game quality is what distinguishes true art from "common" video games, then there's your issue right there, but why fret about it so much? If a video game (or anything else, for that matter) is something truly valuable, it will be able to feed you and the rest of humanity/life itself for centuries on end, without desisting!

And if something (say, an Ace Attorney game, for example) isn't of true value, then why bother complaining about it in the first place? The point is, one can easily leave their own satisfaction (or lack thereof) in somebody else's hands, and that's what we all should remember: when we're dissatisfied with anything that isn't ours yet comes in our way, we're actually dissatisfied with ourselves and the void we feel, but we better know what can truly fill that void up, lest we risk accusing anyone but ourselves for trusting anything or anyone not even worthy of our time and attention.

But they aren't. Phoenix is not relateable for me in any way. He doesn't seem to know a single thing about law, despite obviously (hopefully) having passed the Bar Exam. He can't keep his emotions under control when he hears the slightest revelation or detour in or outside of court and he never manages to properly... he relies on LUCK and DECEPTION to get a guilty verdict! May I point out, Case 3-3? He had to lie to a witness, in order to get the court to think "Ok, he proved it wasn't Maggey, though he's been doing that for over an hour already". Not to mention the many times he IS badgering a witness, which is NOT okay. Oh, and he's the moron who used evidence that he couldn't even remember where he got it from...! That last part in particular is not psychologically OR emotionally or SANELY relateable in any way. (if you honestly can relate to him at that point and think "I'd do the same" I FEAR for you...) Ditto on the emotional level. Excuse me, but Feenie was an immature, gullible moron who should've won a Darwin Award years ago, the way he seemed to go through life! I was more mature and less gullible at the age he was then. (And I would not call myself the most mature of people around)

And, well, if the protagonist is absolutely unrelateable on multiple levels, I can't really care much. If the sidekick is more relateable, that might help if the sidekick gets lots of moments with the protagonist. (but out of the sidekicks in the games, I cannot relate to them... unless we count Franziska or Gumshoe as sidekicks)



Because we EXPECT a certain amount of quality from things. Especially if it's something that seemed to have cost a lot of money on production's side to create. If I watch a TV show about... post-apocalyptic survival or medicine, I demand it to be the type of quality where I can say, "Okay, they did their work. They looked these things up and made things come across as believeable." What's the point in watching a TV show about surviving in the wilderness, if they blatantly tell you stupid things like, "Walk in the desert DURING THE DAY, WITH NO HEAD OR SKIN PROTECTION (like, you know, a burqa or just a long cloak) and don't forget to DRINK ALL YOUR LIQUID SUPPLY IMMEDIATELY", why should I be okay with that? I SHOULD be indignate about it, because not only is it blatantly wrong to do exactly that, but them showing it and having it (miraculously by the power of Plot Necessity) actually WORK gives off horrible messages to stupid people, who will think that honestly is what to do in such situations.

And about games or movies we did pay money to buy the game/dvd/watch the movie in the cinema. We should get something decent out of the money we paid.



...I'm too tired to comprehend that sentence, I will re-visit it in the morning, after I have slept and my brain is working properly again.

C-A

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@SirDimQuixote: Well, first of all, these games aren't free, not even "almost". But even if they were, that wouldn't automatically make it good. If I give you a wormy, unripe apple for free, would you enjoy eating it? Or, let's say someone gives you a whole pile of heavy, ugly sports maskot costumes for free. Would you enjoy wearing those? Free does not equal good. A lot of free stuff is frankly garbage, and I don't think we should praise it just because it didn't cost anything. If nothing else, it cost time.

Second, I always find it funny when people make this kind of "lol, people get upset over nothing" posts, because just by posting that, you go against your own message. If it's so unreasonable to complain about a game or movie we didn't like, then how reasonable is it to complain about a forum post you didn't like? (Said forum post incidentally also falling into the "it's free" category, just as a side note. ;)) After all, if somebody's opinion"isn't of true value, then why bother complaining about it in the first place?"

And I also have to agree with CatMuto in that I don't find the majority of AA characters relatable. In fact, both Phoenix and Mia (and some other main characters) made me cringe a lot throughout the games. Phoenix to the point where I actually found myself internally yelling at him for being A)so stupid, B)such a doormat, or C)such an entitled, double-standard jerk. I know other fans liked him and find him very relatable, but to me, he just does not work that way. I can like him in the same way I would like an enjoyable antagonist, but not as "the good guy".

I think the word Quixote was looking for was "believable", rather than "relatable". These characters aren't meant to be relatable for the most part; they're meant to be believable. It does not mean they are realistic in any way, though I truly believe there are people out there who are just like these characters. And they're almost always introduced as reinforcing a stereotype or two. This series is huge on overacting and overreacting in every sense. It's the easiest way for players to get an idea of how someone is like... at least, at first glance. Once we get into the nitty-gritty truth, though, even the most insane of characters turn out to be not-so-strange after all when their true motives are revealed.

...unless, of course, a character's motives are not revealed or even suggested, and then everything about them just goes to the crapper.

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I think criticism and discussion is a vital part of art. What may seem like nitpicking or complaining is really just discussion and it only serves to better our interpretation of the art (in this case the PW games). Most of the people here are likely pretty big PW fans because if they weren't they wouldn't be coming to this site, so if someone seems like they're being negative they're not doing it out of malice or to troll anyone but rather are pointing out issues they have with something they like and want to discuss it. And lets be real; it's not like Capcom cares what we think, so discussing isn't going to negatively affect the games. Art isn't made in a void, and real life issues covering everything from development schedules to stereotypes are often manifested in the final product, and ignoring that part of it (or any potentially negative parts) in our analysis of the work denies the possibility of lots of great discussion. People thought that DD was too easy; now it sounds like they're working on that. If no one had mentioned it, that might have not happened. I think its really important to dissect the things we like and not give it a free pass just because we think its good.

Regarding the discussion of Phoenix's character (wow this topic moves fast), I'm actually ok with what they did in DD. My bringing up the AJ-era Wright's possible issues was mainly because the topic of whether there was a reason to bring Iris back came up, and I was explaining the only way how I could see her being relevant at all. Forgetting that hypothetical situation, I actually think they did the best they could with Phoenix in DD considering they had to make him the main character of the franchise again. I would prefer the Obi-Wan/Mentor role to them suddenly creating another tragic or dramatic event in his life we weren't aware of yet, (i.e. another Dahlia-like situation). I have an easier time believing Phoenix has everything figured out now rather than believing that Phoenix has another unsolved mystery/character development again.

I actually think Phoenix's overall basic, day-to-day, non-lawyer-or-backstory-related attitude is relatable, and that's because its also fairly bland. I don't mean this in a bad way, what I mean is that they created his personality to line up with most of the players' in regards to the basic emotions: when Phoenix is embarrassed, probably the player would also be embarrassed in that situation, etc. He generally plays the straight man out of court, and is the butt of everyone's jokes in court. I feel like it gets much more complicated when you get into the actual gameplay mechanics. As CatMuto points out, he does a ton of things that wouldn't not only be looked as bad lawyer form in the real world but also would probably make him look ridiculous or jerkish in the AA world as well. But the game system that they have created and the light-hearted, unrealistic tone that they have set up make it hard for me to imagine how they would keep all that and create a game system like the one they have. I mean, it's terrible to badger the witness, but the whole "press" game mechanic is pretty much badgering the witness most of the time, and all the bluffs and illogical decisions he makes are just ways so they can give the player that "WTF" twist moment. This to me really isn't any different than the fact that Phoenix (and to a much greater extent Edgeworth in AAI) are doing the investigations themselves, pocketing evidence without registering it. (and actually the random evidence law thing from 1-5 is another example too. it was only brought in so there could be a "puzzle" about tricking Gant into admitting it (I think, haven't played it in a while)). So I think overall the logic of the characters is sacrificed in order to make the gameplay. And like Rubia said, the characters aren't really meant to be relatable in some ways. During investigations, we control Phoenix's eyes, mouth, and brain from a first person view, implying that we are connected to or relating to him. But in court, we're in a stadium-like multi-camera setup where we are now disconnected from him and are viewing Phoenix as a viewer (even if we're still making his presenting decisions). So again I think gameplay complicates the narrative and the relatablility.

But overall I'm happy with how AA6 looks so far. I'm happy with Phoenix as the playable character because it means he won't be taking up a lot of the backstory, and I like the scenery change.

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...I've slept and am awake and part of that sentence still makes no sense to me.



Pretty much. Though, I admit, I think I like the Phoenix in AJ and find him relateable - even if only because he's openly snarky. But I don't really 'count' that, if you will, because he's not the main focus, nor the protagonist of the game. He's a background NPC and, really, there's nothing there that makes him change.



And we do our best to stay away from those people.

And as you say, they are not believeable. (I don't see how something can be believeable if it's not supposed to be realistic at all - that's what believeable is. It needs to be at least somewhat grounded into reality, for me to be willing to think that it could work out like that) And them all being stereotypes is another reason why I cannot care about them. They have no real personality beyond their stereotypical slap-on, so there is never any proper depth to be explored.



Unless it's in the case of Damon Gant, who was bad through and through, ditto von Karma. And Dahlia, who was obviously a bitch in sheep's clothing, which I noticed as soon as I set eyes on her. I didn't need to see any overreacting reactions to say, "She's a bitch with two faces. And neither of them is one I like." And several other characters, where you could figure out their "nitty-gritty truth" by first impressions. (First impressions don't always lie)



Could you give an example scene? Can't think of one right now where he was embarassed.



Just regular pressing is not. It's quite common, and normal and legal, to ask a witness to please elaborate on a detail in their testimony. Especially if it contradicts a previous statement or the evidence. What bugs me is when he's slamming the desk and pressing the same detail over and over and over, because the game won't let me say early on, "This is how it was, this is how it makes sense, there's no doubt left - which isn't even MY JOB. MY job is to prove beyond reasonable doubt that my client is not guilty, not prove who the guilty party is."



Yes. It was a pointless leash of restrictions put on us for no other reason, than to give us a restriction. I wouldn't mind if contempt of court was an actual thing in all cases (though Maya and Phoenix would be thrown into jail so many times for it...), but it isn't. It's a one-time thing that pops up and is meant to be a hurdle... if it is, then why do we not need to worry about that shit in other cases?

It's like Symphonia saying I can't pick up the Ymir Fruit out of the water I knocked it into, because of a 'dangerous fish' in there. DIPSHITS, YOU HAVE A PARTY MEMBER WHO CAN FLY!! Why knock it into water when you can just have her FLY UP and GRAB THE GODDAMN THING!?

C-A

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When was the evidence law a restriction on the player? I think it was only used as a tool to catch Gant...

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It was a restriction in that you couldn't just present the evidence you acquired. Contrary to all other cases, where Phoenix could put poppers and lube tubes into his pocket and present them in court, if he felt they were necessary. (Ok, ok, no lube tubes, but the conceptual idea is there) Nope, in 1-5, we get a stupid rule that we can't present things that the prosecutor/police has never seen before and without proving that it had to deal with the case. The evidence law served no purpose, other than to prolong the game. Like I said, had it been in ALL cases, I wouldn't mind. But just shoving it into one case for the sake of padding pisses me off.

But Case 1-5 is a collage of fuck-ups, which I went into during my LP of that case, though I definitely forgot to mention some glaring things.

C-A

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It's not like it padded 1-5 for hours. The whole thing with the cloth was it would prove Ema guilty on the spot unless Gant admitted to having it in his safe (which also cleared up the evidence law rules, since Gant, Chief of Police, gave it relevancy and approved it). By having the Evidence Law rules there, Phoenix needed to force him to admit to having it in the safe, which in turn revealed he was at the scene prior to Lana since it had no blood on it (and did so quite smartly, to be honest). The evidence law was necessary to trap Gant and also make him reveal he even had the cloth in the first place.

The "padding" was a few minutes after Gant breaks down and then objects, stating that the evidence is illegal. All you even do is present the Evidence Law book. Like I said, it's not like it goes on for ages.

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