Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Spoiler: In keeping with the spoilers here
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Cravat of Doom wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
But as far as villains go, he just seemed incredibly flat. The black psyche-locks were extremely anticlimactic considering other characters had had red ones for bigger secrets. I'm not saying that his story ISN'T complete, I just feel like they did a poor job of wrapping it up and since characters often make reappearances in the AA world, it's not unreasonable to think he might show up again in GS5 if we're going to assume it's an AJ sequel.
Characters are often in multiple games, but not killers. Only two (or possibly three) killers have appeared in multiple games. One is Manfred von Karma, and he only appeared in flashbacks in GK2. The other is
Spoiler: GK2
Also
Spoiler: 4-4
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I'm also excited about the Android versions of GS1-3! I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but I did see some Wooster comments about Android having only ad-supported apps and not wanting GS to have ads. Yes Google made ad-supported apps a popular business model. Especially for new/indie developers. More people will try something if it's free! HOWEVER, that doesn't mean Android apps HAVE to have ads in them. There's tons of paid games out there with no ads whatsoever. I doubt Capcom will release an ad-supported version. I wanna play the Ace Attorney games on my Xperia Play!
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Bad Player wrote:
Characters are often in multiple games, but not killers. Only two (or possibly three) killers have appeared in multiple games. One is Manfred von Karma, and he only appeared in flashbacks in GK2. The other is
Also
Spoiler: GK2
Also
Spoiler: 4-4
If you recall the scene in Kristoph's cell during the MASON system part, the black psyche-locks appeared when Phoenix specifically asked Kristoph why he killed Zak Gramarye... It was already apparent to Phoenix (and heavily implied to the player) that he'd done many of the things you said... When Kristoph said he killed Zak because he was an evil person...Well, that's kind of still the answer we got in the end. It felt like there was little point to much of that interogation scene if that's all that was ever meant.
I know if Kristoph were to return, there would be little reference to case 4-1 or 4-4 because that would mean having to haul back characters whose stories ARE finished completely; Vera, Valant, even Zak. But if, like mentioned by some others, we could see more of his own personal history things would make more sense.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Cravat of Doom wrote:
I know if Kristoph were to return, there would be little reference to case 4-1 or 4-4 because that would mean having to haul back characters whose stories ARE finished completely; Vera, Valant, even Zak. But if, like mentioned by some others, we could see more of his own personal history things would make more sense.
But are those stories finished completely? We still don't know anything about how Thalassa ended up in Borginia, or who shot her, why Magnifi went to such lengths to cover it up, who Apollo's dad is or what happened to him, etc. All those things deeply involve Zak, Valant, Thalassa, Apollo, and Trucy. All you have to do to connect all those things to Kristoph is tie it back to the smuggling ring already mentioned in three of the four cases. "International smugglers" was a huge plot point in Investigations as well.
It wouldn't take much effort at all to make Kristoph relevant to future case.
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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I think she'd be friends with Apollo and Trucy, so that's something tying them all together.
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Neni wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Neni wrote:
Actually, I had that idea ever since the 3DS was first announced (it was one of the first AA related ideas I had of what could be done with it) and I pray that they do that. 3D preceiving would be amazing. 
They could take it a step further and give you AR (augmented Reality) cards so you could make a 3D model of a witness of even a whole crime scene and move around and examine it.
That would be a reason to bring Kay into the main series: Little Thief 3D investigations.
I mean, come on, they brought Ema to AJ solely to introduce the Forensic features to Apollo, so how about doing the same with Kay, so we can get 3Ds Crime Scene reconstruction?
(I guess it's obvious that I like the basic concept of Little thief a lot... Just not how AAI 1-2 used it. ^^; )
All in all I think it's safe to say that GS5 being on the 3DS would really open up new gameplay possibilities. It's like tech magic!
Remember, don't feed her too many snackoos...
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Croik wrote:
Cravat of Doom wrote:
I know if Kristoph were to return, there would be little reference to case 4-1 or 4-4 because that would mean having to haul back characters whose stories ARE finished completely; Vera, Valant, even Zak. But if, like mentioned by some others, we could see more of his own personal history things would make more sense.
But are those stories finished completely? We still don't know anything about how Thalassa ended up in Borginia, or who shot her, why Magnifi went to such lengths to cover it up, who Apollo's dad is or what happened to him, etc. All those things deeply involve Zak, Valant, Thalassa, Apollo, and Trucy. All you have to do to connect all those things to Kristoph is tie it back to the smuggling ring already mentioned in three of the four cases. "International smugglers" was a huge plot point in Investigations as well.
It wouldn't take much effort at all to make Kristoph relevant to future case.
...But Kristoph wasn't ever connected to the smuggling rings. Zak, Valant, etc still have unfinished stories, but it still doesn't really connect to Kristoph. And while I guess they could fit him in, I think that would be kind of boring... What's the point of proving him guilty if he's already in jail for life?
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Spoiler:
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Charlieboy90 wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Remember, don't feed her too many snackoos...
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Spoiler:
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Neni wrote:
Spoiler: Some more Kristoph stuff
Spoiler: Some Klavier stuff
). I've read an interesting theory about how he changed post-AJ, he became an opposite of Edgeworth- spiteful and reaches for a guilty verdict no matter what it costs. 
I think it's an interesting twist. 
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Though I still don't believe for a SECOND Klavier's ending.
Bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Cravat of Doom wrote:
Klavier's ending? What do you mean by that?
Spoiler:
Bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Spoiler: Gavins and AJ plot
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Charlieboy90 wrote:
Spoiler:
I wouldn't mind seeing Vera come back. Eldoon could come back, but I don't think he's THAT interesting. And Brushel could turn out to be Polly's Lotta, so...
Like I said, Kristoph being the big bad of GS5 would just be... dull. How many evil plots can he have going on at once? And he's already been the villain in two cases. And he's already in jail for life! (Someone connected to Kristoph is a different story, but I just don't want Kristoph himself >_>)
Chips wrote:
Neni wrote:
Spoiler: Some more Kristoph stuff
Spoiler: Some Klavier stuff
I don't think Klavier is going to change. He didn't lose the two people closest to him in the last two cases--he lost Kristoph in the first case; he had already lost them in 4-4. And how was he affected? He wasn't. There was almost a chance for Klavier to be interesting when Kristoph was liek, "Klavier... Are you really going to just let them convict me? We're brothers!" But no, Klavier chooses the truth over his own family. It would be interesting for Klavier to be the prosecutor in a case where Polly's client is guilty, but they'd need some way to make it different from 2-4.
(actually I do have an idea to make Klavier very fun and interesting without completely going against his characterization in the game, but I'm already making a fancase about that and no spoilers~)
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Neni wrote:
Spoiler: And a Klavier Theory
*suddenly feels like writing angsty fanfic*
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It'll also help the relationship with Apollo and Klavier, because as of now, there is hardly anything that makes them go well together. I mean, shit. Phoenix and Edgeworth were childhood friends, reunited in the courtroom to do battle. Apollo and Klavier didn't even know each other before 4-2. There was barely anything tying them together.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Neni wrote:
Spoiler: And a Klavier Theory
Spoiler:
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There's only two characters I really, genuinely liked in Ace Attorney 4: Trucy and Klavier.
If he comes back, I'd probably be fine with whatever they did with him as long as he was mostly the same character.
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Bad Player wrote:
Neni wrote:
Spoiler: And a Klavier Theory
Spoiler:
Conversly, I think that Klavier's setup makes for very good growth, as I think he was very far form perfect in AJ, there was a certain naivety to many of his actions that set him apart from the other prosecutors. I'll agree to disagree, but I think there's still a lot that can be done with that character setup.
Not every character developement has to go "Jerk--> Less Jerk."
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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I know, you might laugh this off now, but there's a wonderful fanfic showing how well you can work with Klavier post-AJ. All it features is him and Apollo talking. While feeding ducks. Nothing else. And it's beautiful.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Quote:
Conversly, I think that Klavier's setup makes for very good growth, as I think he was very far form perfect in AJ, there was a certain naivety to many of his actions that set him apart from the other prosecutors. I'll agree to disagree, but I think there's still a lot that can be done with that character setup.
I actually didn't get the impression he was particularly naive at all. On the contrary he seemed like a perfectly calm and controlled professional. Moreso than Edgeworth even, with Edgeworth everything is intense and focused you can see him thinking through every lie and problem in his head. With Klavier he does everything naturally and doesn't particularly let pride get in his way.
He is more or less perfect...depending on your view of perfection. He's a fine upstanding human being, I doubt he'll have major issues with his brother in jail. I have nothing wrong with Klavier being a main character in the next one.
I imagine he'll be a pure ally in the next one, possibly there for an early or tutorial trial.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Neni wrote:
There's stuff inbetween "Jerk" and "Not Jerk".
Like what? Slightly jerkish, semi-jerkish, mostly jerkish...? :P But since Klavier is pretty much as far on the "Not Jerk" side you can go, it's still 'negative' character development, no matter what it is.
Quote:
I know, you might laugh this off now, but there's a wonderful fanfic showing how well you can work with Klavier post-AJ. All it features is him and Apollo talking. While feeding ducks. Nothing else. And it's beautiful.
Kinda hard to read it without a link, or even a title or author to find it with :P
Pierre wrote:
Quote:
Conversly, I think that Klavier's setup makes for very good growth, as I think he was very far form perfect in AJ, there was a certain naivety to many of his actions that set him apart from the other prosecutors. I'll agree to disagree, but I think there's still a lot that can be done with that character setup.
I actually didn't get the impression he was particularly naive at all. On the contrary he seemed like a perfectly calm and controlled professional. Moreso than Edgeworth even, with Edgeworth everything is intense and focused you can see him thinking through every lie and problem in his head. With Klavier he does everything naturally and doesn't particularly let pride get in his way.
He is more or less perfect...depending on your view of perfection. He's a fine upstanding human being, I doubt he'll have major issues with his brother in jail. I have nothing wrong with Klavier being a main character in the next one.
I imagine he'll be a pure ally in the next one, possibly there for an early or tutorial trial.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with him being there (I mean, I think it'd be a bit strange if he just dropped out of Polly's life, especially since he disbanded the Gavinners to focus on his prosecutorial career), but the plain conflict/arc of the game shouldn't be about him, just because I can't really see any fulfilling, original character development that can be done well with him.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Bad Player wrote:
Neni wrote:
There's stuff inbetween "Jerk" and "Not Jerk".
Like what? Slightly jerkish, semi-jerkish, mostly jerkish...? :P But since Klavier is pretty much as far on the "Not Jerk" side you can go, it's still 'negative' character development, no matter what it is.
What's wrong with negative character development?
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Adrian in black wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Neni wrote:
There's stuff inbetween "Jerk" and "Not Jerk".
Like what? Slightly jerkish, semi-jerkish, mostly jerkish...? :P But since Klavier is pretty much as far on the "Not Jerk" side you can go, it's still 'negative' character development, no matter what it is.
What's wrong with negative character development?
It's not happy :P
Despite dealing with all the death and murder and stuff, the AA series tends to be positive and happy (in the end, at least ^^'). They could give Klavier 'negative' character development, but I just can't see them then not undoing it. It would be one thing if he was a better person in the end, but I'm not sure how much better they could make him than he already is, plus I imagine it'd feel a lot like Edgey's character arc.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Adrian in black wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Neni wrote:
There's stuff inbetween "Jerk" and "Not Jerk".
Like what? Slightly jerkish, semi-jerkish, mostly jerkish...? :P But since Klavier is pretty much as far on the "Not Jerk" side you can go, it's still 'negative' character development, no matter what it is.
What's wrong with negative character development?
Angst is hated by many.
Especially when it happens to nice normally happy characters.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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I'm taking the KH series as an example now, because it's one of my other favorites, but there you see a good example of negative character developement on the main character of all people, and without getting Angsty at all. Sora starts out as an innocent, idealistic, happy kid, but grows gradually more agressive, set on revenge and obsessive to a point as it goes on. It's slow changes, you don't notice them right away and they don't make him angsty at all, but the difference is noticable if you put cutscenes from KH1 and KH2 next to each other.
That's a kind of GOOD negative character developement: Slowly altering the personality without making a striking difference right away. THIS is how good writers do it. And this can be done to any character. Klavier as well. And that's what I want to see, you know.
You say he will be able to "Deal with it fine", but that's not true. Klavier's human, not a godlike being. What he went through WILL slowly take it's toll on him, because he is human and has emotions and has to live with them. Everytime he remembers he's the brother of a murderer that will gnaw on his mind at least a little bit, because it's just not a thought one would want to have to face.
Maybe he's not main-conflict material, yes, but don't claim he had no room for interesting developement. I see plenty.
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I'd say AJ1 Klavier...is close in personality to KH2 Sora...who wasn't that obsessive in my eyes...or was at least justified considering the circumstances his friend had disappeared in and how everyone was avoiding questions about said friend. He was inquisitive about the truth. Klavier in concert...seemed more obsessive than Sora was, when he got 'serious' about music and cracked down on the slightest thing.
I think your analogy doesn't really work for negative character development, because...well the level you compared it to is what Klavier is naturally...he's not naive, he's sharp.
Though he already had to deal with his estranged brother being jailed....so he has another charge added to his record and probably another 20 or more years onto his sentence. It's nothing that would warp his character completely since he is already coping with his brother in jail.
His brother was sentenced as a murderer in case 1....Klavier was perfectly fine throughout the game, no 'eating away' at him. In fact the only reason he may snap in the end is the sheer awkward pressure that was placed on him as his word would directly affect his brothers fate and he would have to pit family ties against law.
Sure the topic may be slightly 'dark' to him, but I'm sure many families struggle with criminal bad eggs and cope perfectly fine.
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Pierre wrote:
Alright....
I'd say AJ1 Klavier...is close in personality to KH2 Sora...who wasn't that obsessive in my eyes...or was at least justified considering the circumstances his friend had disappeared in and how everyone was avoiding questions about said friend. He was inquisitive about the truth. Klavier in concert...seemed more obsessive than Sora was, when he got 'serious' about music and cracked down on the slightest thing.
I think your analogy doesn't really work for negative character development, because...well the level you compared it to is what Klavier is naturally...he's not naive, he's sharp.
Though he already had to deal with his estranged brother being jailed....so he has another charge added to his record and probably another 20 or more years onto his sentence. It's nothing that would warp his character completely since he is already coping with his brother in jail.
His brother was sentenced as a murderer in case 1....Klavier was perfectly fine throughout the game, no 'eating away' at him. In fact the only reason he may snap in the end is the sheer awkward pressure that was placed on him as his word would directly affect his brothers fate and he would have to pit family ties against law.
Sure the topic may be slightly 'dark' to him, but I'm sure many families struggle with criminal bad eggs and cope perfectly fine.
I'd say AJ1 Klavier...is close in personality to KH2 Sora...who wasn't that obsessive in my eyes...or was at least justified considering the circumstances his friend had disappeared in and how everyone was avoiding questions about said friend. He was inquisitive about the truth. Klavier in concert...seemed more obsessive than Sora was, when he got 'serious' about music and cracked down on the slightest thing.
I think your analogy doesn't really work for negative character development, because...well the level you compared it to is what Klavier is naturally...he's not naive, he's sharp.
Though he already had to deal with his estranged brother being jailed....so he has another charge added to his record and probably another 20 or more years onto his sentence. It's nothing that would warp his character completely since he is already coping with his brother in jail.
His brother was sentenced as a murderer in case 1....Klavier was perfectly fine throughout the game, no 'eating away' at him. In fact the only reason he may snap in the end is the sheer awkward pressure that was placed on him as his word would directly affect his brothers fate and he would have to pit family ties against law.
Sure the topic may be slightly 'dark' to him, but I'm sure many families struggle with criminal bad eggs and cope perfectly fine.
Again, I agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do, but that's alternative character interpretation. In the end, nobody knows the truth but the one who wrote Klavier, we should remember that.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Bad Player wrote:
But are those stories finished completely? We still don't know anything about how Thalassa ended up in Borginia, or who shot her, why Magnifi went to such lengths to cover it up, who Apollo's dad is or what happened to him, etc. All those things deeply involve Zak, Valant, Thalassa, Apollo, and Trucy. All you have to do to connect all those things to Kristoph is tie it back to the smuggling ring already mentioned in three of the four cases. "International smugglers" was a huge plot point in Investigations as well.
It wouldn't take much effort at all to make Kristoph relevant to future case.
It wouldn't take much effort at all to make Kristoph relevant to future case.
...But Kristoph wasn't ever connected to the smuggling rings. Zak, Valant, etc still have unfinished stories, but it still doesn't really connect to Kristoph. And while I guess they could fit him in, I think that would be kind of boring... What's the point of proving him guilty if he's already in jail for life?[/quote]
Didn't they say that Atroquinine (Kris' poison of choice) could be made from a Borginian Cocoon? In order to get his hands on it he would have had to import it illegally. Instant connection.
And even if Kristoph were to appear in another game, it doesn't necessarily follow that you'd be proving him guilty. He could appear as a witness; kind of like Apollo's Hannibal Lector.
Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5 announced, and Gyakuten Saiban 123HD
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Croik wrote:
Didn't they say that Atroquinine (Kris' poison of choice) could be made from a Borginian Cocoon? In order to get his hands on it he would have had to import it illegally. Instant connection.
And even if Kristoph were to appear in another game, it doesn't necessarily follow that you'd be proving him guilty. He could appear as a witness; kind of like Apollo's Hannibal Lector.
And even if Kristoph were to appear in another game, it doesn't necessarily follow that you'd be proving him guilty. He could appear as a witness; kind of like Apollo's Hannibal Lector.
Well they said that a poison can be made from the Borginian cocoons, but I don't think they ever said that that poison was atroquinine. (Although on the other hand, they never denied it.)
And, I mean, if they could bring Kristoph back if they really want, but I think he's still basically been resolved. We still don't know exactly why Magnifi sent Thalassa away or about Polly's father, but I don't think they really need Kristoph to address those >_>
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
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