I don't mean to advertise myself, but I translated some bullet points from the Famitsu cross-review that hoso_boso put up on his blog. If anybody is interested --> click here

Anyways, I bring this up because the music got praise from (a) reviewer(s).

---

Last edited by SeanHK on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Honestly, I was hoping that Blackquill would have a voice similar to Jack Black. As strange as it sounds, it would've been so perfect.

Twilight Princess is a dark game, but so was Majora's Mask which is arguably even more dark. That game was rated E for Everyone. You're honestly saying that if Wind Waker had TP's art style, it'd be rated T? That's bullshit.

Brawl is a cartoonish game, and none of the violence is graphic or intense. I agree that RDR should be rated M, but the "Strong Sexual Content" descriptor is intensely misleading. One sex scene should instead be scripted as "Sexual Themes" or "A Sex Scene." Strong Sexual Content implies that it's almost explicit pornography. There's more explicit references to sex in L.A. Noire, but that's listed as "Sexual Themes." You haven't played Splinter Cell, so you aren't qualified to say that it deserves an M rating. Why would they rate Chaos Theory on consoles "M" when the exact same version on 3DS is rated "T?" The only two games in that series that do deserve an M rating are Conviction and Blacklist. And no, I'm not saying that GTA should be rated T. I understand why that game is rated M, and I have no complaints with it.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. All the games that I've listed have almost no reason to have their current ratings, or have misleading descriptors. The ESRB is by far the WORST system, especially since there's no rating in between T and M. They won't reveal how they rate games, nor who's on their board. Don't bullshit me and call it the best rating system. The MPAA is less flawed than these guys.

OB-FUCKING-JECTION

---

If you looked at the previous posts, you can see how angry and bewildered we all are at this.

What you're not understanding is that T is what you're trying to describe as "What should be between T and M".

E10+ is now getting what many games that were rated T should have been. Not necessarly super mature, but still friendly enough for kids. And you can't just discredit my argument by saying "You have NO idea what you're talking about." But that's not the point of this thread, anyhow.

I'm personally 100% A-OK with DD being rated M, it allows for some more mature language and more realistic, if graphic, depictions of the violence that so often goes applied. Not to say it's becoming generic grit: it looks as vibrant as any AA game, with plenty of quirk, but now it's trying to broaden its horizons and reach out to a more mature audience (which CAPCOM could very well have lobbied for the M rating), which I'm happy with.

Also, what's the matter with Blackquill's "Objection!"? I rather like it myself.

---

I didn't have to discredit your argument just by saying "You have no idea what you're talking about." My examples are perfectly valid, and I'll still stand by what I said if you still consider the ESRB to be the best rating system in America. I'll perhaps give them more credit if they adopt a 15+ rating, but as of now; I refuse to support or praise them. Why can't we have rating systems like CERO or PEGI?!

Even if the game is "in-between" T and M, that still doesn't give it enough justification for it to be rated the higher of the two. Like I mentioned in my examples, a lot of them are rated unfairly or given misleading descriptors. That's going to turn away an entire audience. I personally don't care that DD will be rated M. That isn't going to stop me from playing this game. What I'm angry about is that DD will most likely be the worst selling title in the series when it gets released. Now that the game's going to be rated M, Capcom will be lucky if they can sell half of what they normally get per each game. The series is all but doomed doomed now. Ace Attorney has been selling terribly in the West recently, and this was supposed to be the series' final chance.

I was actually pretty darned shocked by the game being rated M. In my understanding with an M rated materials means(though not always) video game developers have gone crazy gore and violence...have you guys watched the new TombRaider game??blrgh...

I never saw Ace Attorney being targeted for those type of audience..but more for like...like.. Naruto and bleach audience (okay not the example i was looking for at all but DONT KILL MEH) or like Case Closed..(then again the first case of case closed was pretty horrific)..I mean comeon...Ace attorney was always meant for atlest 12+. Considering it is pretty light hearted and comedic even when it is taking at a court with the subject of murder


I kind of agree with TopHatProfessor1014...Ace attorney was already at stake due to it being a visual novel...now on top of that you add an M rated on which was already meant for younger audience could potentially become an obstacle for the franchise

What could have possibly made ESRB rate it M? for blood? could it be that picture


For Suggestive Themes? would that be the same thing as with Maya being in a maid dress?(cause that's not really anything nosebleeding) Well I guess Japanese people are more lighter on suggestive themes (considering they have lolicon and other stuffs)...

For Language? now that is something worrysome..why on earth would there be explicit language in Ace Attorney? In situation likes this you would think the localization team would cover it up someway like how they did with Phoenix cleaning toilet...or did they intentionally put it...or maybe there is a good reason..

Or maybe Motehide Eshiro really did go for a Darker theme...
man..

Last edited by ravensep on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

The gameplay trailer did show some fairly detailed blood on and beneath that table. While blood isn't a new thing to the AA series, it never looked realistic like that. I don't think it'd be the only reason for the game to be rated M, but it is probably a major contributor.

Now, if they made the blood pink, maybe the rating would be T.





Re: suggestive themes. Did you not see how some of the women dressed? Btw, the AAI1 ESRB rating synopsis does explicitly mention Cammy (not by name). It's actually kinda silly how they refer to her, actually.

Now, one can argue that the Zero Escape VNs are rated M and on the DS; but the stakes are much higher with Ace Attorney. Zero Escape had an intended audience of adults, and it was successfully able to sell it to that audience. Ace Attorney though, already has an established audience that consists of gamers of all ages. Rating the newest game M is going to turn away a lot of people. At least it's digital only, which means that it'll be "easier" for more people to play it.

The main problem here is that there's no rating in between T and M. C'mon, ESRB! WTF is your problem?

Can you really say this game is doomed because of the M rating?
It's not like the people who play Ace Attorney are 6 and can't play M games.
Phoenix is a big name, and I think people are open to Capcom making the game more mature.

---

I'm saying that sales will now probably be much lower than we all originally thought. The rating of ANY product be it a film or video game, vastly affects its success.

If Ace Attorney was as big of a name as you said, how come we never got Gyakuten Kenji 2? The entire series is very niche, meaning it only appeals to a specific audience. That audience isn't very big, and each game only sells reasonably well enough to justify localization of the next one.

Just asking, but how will Dual Destinies suffer because the game is rated M?
This is a game about murder, this should've been foreseen earlier.

---

I highly doubt sales will be affected THAT much. I can see it being affected to some extent, but I don't think this would cause the game to fail.

This is a complicated subject because of the fact that every parent makes different decisions for his/her child.

First things first. I don't think anyone loves the ESRB. Their system is not the most accurate, since they basically have to take the developer's word for what is in their game, which sometimes goes wrong as seen in controversies like the one that surrounded Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Now, coming up with a better system could be complicated and expensive, but in the end the system isn't very amazing. I think they have screwed up many times much like the MPAA has. Money no doubt comes into it as well, since T is the best-selling rating, much like the PG-13 rating is. I do think we need a rating in the middle, but I don't think its a big deal.

Second: I actually have to disagree with your previous post, though. I play and enjoy The Legend of Zelda series and the Metal Gear series, and I fully agree with all of the ratings seen in the games. Twilight Princess was darker than any previous zelda game had been in GRAPHICAL content. Majora's Mask was indeed dark, but it was on a thematic level, something the ratings board isn't really made to measure. The ratings only measure on-screen, graphical depictions of objectionable content and as such any deeper undertones are not going to be looked at. Looking at it like that, Twilight Princess was the first Zelda game with real red-colored blood, it featured more violent sword moves and it did have a more violent story. I think it quite deserved a Teen rating, personally, and that made it sell even more because Teen is the best-selling rating. Let's move on to Metal Gear. I love Metal Gear, but those games are TOTALLY deserving of an M rating. They are full of bloody violence, torture scenes, sexuality, and scary depictions of warfare. There is no way those games should have been rated T. If I have children I would not let my child play Metal Gear until they were 14 or 15. It's not a bad thing to get an M rating. Metal Gear uses those frightning elements in a way that brings light to an issue and overall it has a good message, but the ratings board shouldn't take that into account. All it should take into account is the on-screen violence, sexuality, and language. I have never played the Red Dead games, but I would say any sex scene, even if its just one, should turn the game into an M game. Having a sex scene in a movie gets you R, so why wouldn't having it in a game get you M?

Lastly: I don't think this is going to have any affect on DD, really. It's already a cult-game on the eShop, so there's not a lot of market that will be looking at the game. And I'd also say it won't have any affect for the following point:

I don't think most people cut themselves off from a game because of the rating. I think once kids get old enough to walk into a store by themselves and buy a game they probably know their sensitivity level and the ratings are more of an "ALERT: wait a minute!". For instance, both DD and Grand Theft Auto are rated M, but just by reading a wikipedia article I can tell that Dual Destinies is in my comfort zone but Grand Theft Auto isn't.

I think the ratings system is mainly set up for parents of younger children, so they don't buy a super violent or super-sexual game for their children. In that case, DD's rating makes sense: I don't think anyone under the age of 13 or 14 should probably be playing this game. It's an easy way for parents (who might not be gamers or have any idea what's in their child's games) to quickly determine what is considered "appropriate" and what isn't.

And the real deciding factor is that every parent is totally different about their own practices with games. When I was growing up and in the 2 or 3rd grade I knew plenty of kids who played Half-Life or Halo. Looking back as an Adult, I would NEVER let my kids play a game that violent at that age, but their parents obviously allowed it. There will be some homes where parents won't be worried about Sex but will be very worried about violence, and there will be some homes that will be the opposite of that. The ratings system is simply a kind of pointer into the general direction, and it does and should ALWAYS air on the side of caution in order to account for those who have more protective views about what their children should play. I don't think any parent flat out says "Well, you're 15, so you can't buy Phoenix Wright today, but your birthday is tomorrow so then we'll buy it!". Every family thinks for themselves and makes their own decisions, and because of that I think everyone who wants Phoenix Wright will get it.

---

I'm actually perfectly fine with it, as long as the game sticks to the same style and atmosphere of the others. I gotta agree with Percei in that it probably has a lot to do with the original games only implying the violence, while now we have full 3D cutscenes.

---

Oh my gosh! YES! YES! YES! YES!
I never thought of that but that would have been so funny and amazing

---

Off-topic, but actually Ocarina of Time was the first to feature red colored blood. In the original N64 release, Ganondorf coughs up red blood after you defeat him in his first phase. This was changed to green in the re-releases however, probably to avoid a future T rating.

Anyways, the M-rating doesn't bother me at all. As ADA stated, most of the people who play Ace Attorney are most likely old enough to handle anything M-rated and I doubt it will hurt overall sales.

I am curious as to how it gets a M rating though. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Splinter Cell 1 and 2 were rated T. 3 was rated M, most likely because they introduced the knife(that showed no blood ). In my opinion the ESRB needs to have a rating between T and M.

Sry ADA thought PM was for the thread.

---

No problem!

---

Wait wait wait...DD is getting a M rating? pretty funny

---

Yea, you mustve missed it! There were theories about the reasons and arguements about the ESRB regarding estimated sale numbers

---

Its pretty dumb that they would give it a M rating the game at most has mild violence it seems there slowly turning into Australia

But like I said, the 3DS version which is the EXACT SAME GAME was rated T.


Are you kidding? Of course it's a big deal! If we had a 15+ rating, more people could buy games that would normally be rated M for Mature. Why do other countries get to have this, but we don't!?



Maybe MGS3 and MGS4, but MGS1 and MGS2 could have been rated T. Peace Walker on PSP has about the same level of violence as those games, and it was rated T. The language in Metal Gear is extremely tame, especially for a game series that usually has an M rating. In the entire main series, the f-word was used ONE time in MGS4, but that game deserved an M rating to begin with. There's practically no explicit sexuality, only some suggestive themes. Later on in the series, the violence does get more intense; but the original MGS and MGS2 aren't that graphic in their violence.



Actually, Ocarina of Time had red blood in its original version. But that's besides the point. So basically, as the technology gets better; the rating has to get higher? Even if Twilight Princess does deserve a T rating, what about Brawl? There are probably young kids who couldn't play that game just because of its rating. That game is perfectly fine for gamers of ALL ages.



Is anyone paying attention to ANYTHING I write!? I'm not saying that the game SHOULDN'T be rated M. I completely agree with its rating. I'm talking about the MISLEADING DESCRIPTIONS that come with the ratings. ONE sex scene that's literally there for five seconds does not equal strong sexual content.



It may not be a problem for you, but it certainly is for me and thousands of other teens. I STILL can't play Mature rated games without being yelled at by my parents. I have to sneak them into the house, and hide them so I don't get caught. I'm 15 years old; but I consider myself to be VERY mature. I can handle pretty much anything, but my parents certainly don't see it that way no matter how I explain it. The game's rated M? Sorry, you can't play it. It's not just me, it happens to a LOT of underage people. It doesn't matter if DD and GTA have the same rating. That doesn't mean shit to the adults that run our lives. They think they know what they're doing, but they simply don't understand and never will.



Yes, I agree that a rating system should exist. 2nd graders most certainly should not play those games, but a rating can only do so much. The parents have to be smart and understand what's suitable for their kids and what isn't. Luckily, everyone here has grown up in the most important age of video games. If any of us have kids, we'll all be smarter because we grew up with games and truly understand them. Again, I have to reiterate this point. It doesn't matter if you're 15 or even 16. There are very strict parents out there who refuse to allow their kids to play M rated games. We need a rating in-between to create a compromise. How would that cost more money? It's not changing the entire system, it's adding ONE rating. Is that so much to ask?

Blackquill's voice doesn't fit him at all. It sounds too European. It sounds like it came from someone more formal like Edgeworth.

I've bought M rated games before at places like E.G. Walmart easily simply because I appear older, at least 17. The latest M rated game I spent money on was The Last of Us, and how, the parent viewed it before permission. Yes, I agree, many kids shouldn't get M rated games for many reasons. 1: The game may be too morally questionable as seen by the parents. 2: The kid is spoiled and their parents buy the game to shut them up(woohoo America. )Other reasons, too. In my opinion, the rating companies are meant for parents to decide if the game can be handled. If someone under the appropriate age wants to buy an M rated game, the child/teen and the parents/guardians should both completely understand that the video game is not meant to taken seriously. Metal Gear Solid for example: the games have good messages involving freedom or "what you fight for", but the action in a game should not be the thing you live for . I'm allowed to buy certain M rated games as long as I understand it's fiction, and if they are not too mature/racy/offensive(Saints Row 3 for example.) Though many parents will not buy their child a game simply because it's rated M or they think their child is "too into video games." There is still the chance that most people who started out as children being an AA fan since about 2005, they will likely be adults now, in which it won't be difficult for them to purchase the game. On the other hand, children who are not AA fans but DD has caught their eye may not be able to get it due to their parents. I think AA has gotten a bit darker after each game( a little bit ) but if DD is supposed to be the darkest of them all, I don't think predicted sales for a digital release will wither as much some people think. But hopefully, DD will become the title that turns the sales around audience wise.

---

I quite like Simon's objection and how the text appears. I can already imagine his voice in the main game.

---

I like his japanese voice more

Me too we all got used to it and love it.Hopefully others will get used to it just like Nick sounding younger, btw Nick's voice actor is thirty something, so... let's hope he doesnt sound bad

---

They should of gotten ahold of the dude who did the Mercs announcer voice in Black Ops 2 to do Blackquill's voice.

Think his name is Jason Beghe.

I found it dumb they gave phoenix a young voice

Well Teen is 13 and Up, and Mature is 16 and Up. That's only a difference of 3 years. I don't really know how there would be something in the middle. But I think the system does need an overhaul.



I would still say the violence level and blood would deem it an m rating, maybe not now a days though since everything has gotten more lax. It's still more graphic than, say, Ocarina of Time was. The scenes with Gray Fox especially. I see what you're saying, and I think if it was released now the first MGS might get a Teen rating, but at the time it was a valid rating.


Yes, and they changed it to green because they didn't want to get a re-rating. So that isn't really coming into play because Twilight Princess is the first Zelda where Nintendo put in blood and stuck with it. I would actually argue that Brawl ISN'T appropriate for all ages. Yes, personally I'd let my kids play it fairly early on, but some parents might not want their young kids playing a game where you can hit women and small animals with swords and guns. Like I said, ESRB tends to air on the side of caution and I think that was a cautious rating. I think it could have been E10+ personally, but I don't think E is acceptable.


I understand what you are saying. I agree about the descriptions; they are too vague. But I also think that no matter how long the sex scene is, if there is a scene that in any way shows a couple having sex then that is "Strong Sexual Content", whether it is "One scene which contains strong sexual content" or "many scenes with strong sexual content".


Adding one rating wouldn't cost money; what I was saying was it would cost money to set up what they REALLY need to do: have a system that isn't in any way influenced by business or money that actually plays the games its rating to completion rather than just sample a video about it. If I remember correctly, M used to be 17 and up, but they changed it to 16. Like I said, there's not a big difference between 13 and 16. It's only one year off from the CERO and PEGI ratings.


I am very sorry to hear about your situation, and I understand why you are upset. The problem is that for every parent who is very protective of their child there are 5 who don't even bother to look at the ratings. And I also know many parents who look at T as an equal to E and only worry about M, which means their kids are playing things they shouldn't really be playing at very young ages. Now, I don't think videogames are responsible for turning people into serial killers or anything, but I do think that if a young child (4 or 5) played tons and tons of hours of a game like MGS or Halo it could warp their sensitivity and/or emotions about violence, possibly creating problems later. So the ratings, specifically M, is very important and I'm not sure if adding another rating would change a lot of the issues for everyone.

About your situation, I understand why you are upset, but not all adults are like that. It usually has to do with how much they know about gaming. My parents didn't let me have any games when I was growing up until they let me buy a gamecube at age 11. I was always so into my games I'd show them stuff and play the soundtracks in the car and talk about the lore and etc. And as I got older I naturally got into more mature games and by that time they knew what was going on. I'm not trying to say my parents were amazing or anything, what I'm trying to say is that I was always actively getting them involved in the gaming process. It's none of my business, but if you want my advice on how to handle the Dual Destinies issue (although in theory you could just buy an eShop card and download it) I would wait until one of them was just hanging out and then talk about the game, how it's this great legal drama game that you're a big fan of and the new one is coming out. It's M, but it has great messages and is a wonderfully written crime drama. And then show them the trailer and the gameplay videos where you can see the blood, etc. and let them see what it really is that's making up the M rating. What kind of TV Shows do you watch? You could probably find a show that they know you watch that has the same amount of violence in it and say that its only as violent as that show.

Anyway, I understand this is an issue for some families but I also know that the ratings system is important in stopping less-responsible parents from screwing their kids up. And in the end whether or not I agree with it it is a parental decision and has to be worked out with them rather than blame the ESRB or Capcom. For all we know this is the best GS yet and it just happens to be darker and more violent. That might help the game a lot, and it is in the best interests for the game to not cut the game to get a better rating, the same way you shouldn't neccesarily cut an R rated move to make it PG-13 unless the violence is gratuitous.


I think people forget Ben Judd's original effect or haven't actually heard it with good speakers.

It sounded like Jimmy Fallon inhaled helium.

I know Ben Judd isn't perfect (before the new trailer I was totally against him) but I actually think he sounds better than the original.
It's the Apollo and Edgeworth voices I'm worried about, since they were pretty great originally.

---

The thing that i didnt like is that if your gonna make phoenix older than give him a older voice simple logic

There is a certain amount of administration costs to add a new rating. At a minimum they need to decide what it is, how it modifiers the content descriptors and train the raters and public about it.

---

hmm i just realized since it is now becoming a M rating couldn't they now have more leeway with making the content more mature with the cases instead of dumbing it down so it can follow the rules with a T rating?

The thing is, the game isn't developed according to what the rating would/could be in the Americas. They probably develop the game with the CERO (B-C) rating in mind... and it just happened to get an M rating from ESRB this time around.

---

how does the CERO (B-C) rating work?