Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
What, you're implying Phoenix has to die because Apollo sucks? Kill your developed character merely because the other one is somehow incapable of meaningful character development?
What, where did I say Apollo sucks?
I said he's not his own character. He's Phoenix's shadow. In fact, I consider him a better version of Phoenix, but a shadow is still a shadow.
Quote:
If they kill Phoenix, they've effectively killed the franchise.
What's the drastic difference between being dead and not in the game? I think that's the best way to remove him from the franchise: Bring him down in a blaze of honor rather than just say he's banging Maya and Iris overseas. Phoenix deserves that much.
...And what? No no no no, not at all. I wasn't trying to say he needs to become more like Phoenix, goddess knows he's mirroring Phoenix enough personality wise as it is. I'm saying he needs to become his own person. Make him more aggressive, more independent, hell, more thoughtful before thinking. Just do SOMETHING to separate the two.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BBdoubleB wrote:
Quote:
If they kill Phoenix, they've effectively killed the franchise.
What's the drastic difference between being dead and not in the game? I think that's the best way to remove him from the franchise: Bring him down in a blaze of honor rather than just say he's banging Maya and Iris overseas. Phoenix deserves that much.
Death =/= Honor!!!
I am a Phoenix fan but I don't think that he should be in the game like in GS4!
Maybe he got his badge and then he leaves somewhere else to defend!
He brefly mentioned this and offers the truth to apollo between trucy and him (but he don't say anything about
)After this he won't appear anymore!
Better then let him die!
If capcom just left phoenix out in GS4...
we didn't had this stupid discussion -.-
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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The Objector wrote:
2. Make a new game, same universe, absolutely new cast of characters, same gameplay but set somewhere else (think: CSI, CSI New York, CSI Miami- a different city)
3. Make a new game, with a new, previously unheard of character and have him replace a loved, old character who has put away and shelved in a brutal manner whilst retaining a mentor role who actually sets in motion most of the game. Meanwhile, they decide to include a flashback where people from the previous cast return, but the two most prominent ones are removed, never talked about, and pretty much ignored. Include almost no references, no names, and no ties to the previous games except for one character who was included in a bonus case, which pretty much invites crack theorists to create dual timeline theories and crap.
3. Make a new game, with a new, previously unheard of character and have him replace a loved, old character who has put away and shelved in a brutal manner whilst retaining a mentor role who actually sets in motion most of the game. Meanwhile, they decide to include a flashback where people from the previous cast return, but the two most prominent ones are removed, never talked about, and pretty much ignored. Include almost no references, no names, and no ties to the previous games except for one character who was included in a bonus case, which pretty much invites crack theorists to create dual timeline theories and crap.
Yes, definitely should have done option '2'. We all know that, I think... Since they were forced to return Phoenix, they should have made him have a brief cameo consistent with GS3. Nobody was forcing them to do what they did...
Quote:
Apollo fans want Phoenix out of the way, and Phoenix fans want Phoenix. If Phoenix did die, and that made Apollo go through a character change, and if he changed to become more like Phoenix than the pathetic, running-away-from-spotlight, needs-help-from-15-year-old-ditzy-teenager and his rockstar opponent object he is now, well , I think that would satisfy both sides- Phoenix is gone, Apollo' s here, Apollo is more like Phoenix.
Why on earth can't Apollo manage character change without Phoenix dying? Why can't Apollo achieve character development by himself? The writers can't be that pathetic, surely. I have a great idea. He can defend Thalassa and find out she's a mass murderer and his mother, or Gant is his father, or something, both of which would be sufficiently unsettling.
Seriously, I don't think anybody wants Apollo to be 'more like Phoenix'. Then he'd even more be a D-grade Phoenix clone. Why bother? His differentiation is the one thing they did right with him. I don't think Apollo fans want him to be like Phoenix either [since what's the point of him, then, why not just have Phoenix? It would just render GS4 futile and redundant.]
Quote:
What's the drastic difference between being dead and not in the game?
He's DEAD. We can't even make up fanfic or imagine a semi-decent future. He's killed off for some stupid futile purpose- because the writers are supposedly incapable of writing a compelling 'replacement' otherwise. Yes, it's insulting he has to be put to pasture in some boring manner instead of the good ending in 3-5 he was supposed to have, but being killed off merely because they made a gross mistake over GS4 and "can't manage a decent 'replacement' otherwise" would be the greatest injustice of all. That's not honour. That's the final insult. And pretending Maya/Pearl's skills have advanced to take on Phoenix's physical form completely would be a farce. Besides, they seem to be into B-grade magic now in the games.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
His differentiation is the one thing they did right with him.
...What differentiation?
Why do you think I'm so adamant on Apollo getting a character change? Not to be more like Phoenix: PRECISELY the opposite.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BBdoubleB wrote:
Quote:
His differentiation is the one thing they did right with him.
...What differentiation?
Why do you think I'm so adamant on Apollo getting a character change? Not to be more like Phoenix: PRECISELY the opposite.
I was replying to The Objector, who wrote this:
The Objector wrote:
I think BBdoubleB is right. They screwed up, they can't rectify their mistake. Something needs to happen to Phoenix that will satisfy both Phoenix and Apollo fans. Apollo fans want Phoenix out of the way, and Phoenix fans want Phoenix. If Phoenix did die, and that made Apollo go through a character change, and if he changed to become more like Phoenix than the pathetic, running-away-from-spotlight, needs-help-from-15-year-old-ditzy-teenager and his rockstar opponent object he is now, well , I think that would satisfy both sides- Phoenix is gone, Apollo' s here, Apollo is more like Phoenix.
Killing Phoenix would be an act of insanity, fans of the original series would get fed up. It would look massively, massively cheap, worse than disbarring him. [It would also be an admission that Apollo is hopeless next to Phoenix as a benchmark. Theres' a reason there's a game starring a compelling character being released next month, and there's a reason why it's not AJ2.]
It's clear. If they're going to continue with Apollo, they should merely timeskip the game a few years, Apollo has moved to the next district with his own law office, Phoenix is left in peace and dignity with as little info divulged as possible. Or find out the entire GS4 was Apollo stuck in a weird law training simulation and this is the real Apollo story.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Still I think that time skip thing sounds a plausible way to deal with stuff, but...there's something unsettling about it I can't think...maybe it's because it would be a big time skip by comparison to the ones between the other games thats the only other thing. Lots of things could have happened in that gap.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
BBdoubleB wrote:
Quote:
His differentiation is the one thing they did right with him.
...What differentiation?
Why do you think I'm so adamant on Apollo getting a character change? Not to be more like Phoenix: PRECISELY the opposite.
I was replying to The Objector, who wrote this:
The Objector wrote:
I think BBdoubleB is right. They screwed up, they can't rectify their mistake. Something needs to happen to Phoenix that will satisfy both Phoenix and Apollo fans. Apollo fans want Phoenix out of the way, and Phoenix fans want Phoenix. If Phoenix did die, and that made Apollo go through a character change, and if he changed to become more like Phoenix than the pathetic, running-away-from-spotlight, needs-help-from-15-year-old-ditzy-teenager and his rockstar opponent object he is now, well , I think that would satisfy both sides- Phoenix is gone, Apollo' s here, Apollo is more like Phoenix.
Killing Phoenix would be an act of insanity, fans of the original series would get fed up. It would look massively, massively cheap, worse than disbarring him. [It would also be an admission that Apollo is hopeless next to Phoenix as a benchmark. Theres' a reason there's a game starring a compelling character being released next month, and there's a reason why it's not AJ2.]
It's clear. If they're going to continue with Apollo, they should merely timeskip the game a few years, Apollo has moved to the next district with his own law office, Phoenix is left in peace and dignity with as little info divulged as possible. Or find out the entire GS4 was Apollo stuck in a weird law training simulation and this is the real Apollo story.
Or they could have case one with Apollo, and then kill him for a nice WHAM moment. It'd jar everyone, but that would actually be cool as a plot point- Apollo's death from seemingly nowhere affects Nick, motivating him to retake the bar, and we get a good story from it- Nick getting back into the game, seeing how radically other characters have changed over the years, etc. Maybe even a Rocky-esque loss along the way.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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RobbieValiant wrote:
Or they could have case one with Apollo, and then kill him for a nice WHAM moment. It'd jar everyone, but that would actually be cool as a plot point- Apollo's death from seemingly nowhere affects Nick, motivating him to retake the bar, and we get a good story from it- Nick getting back into the game, seeing how radically other characters have changed over the years, etc. Maybe even a Rocky-esque loss along the way.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I don't want Apollo to die anyway, theres too much backstory I still want to find out.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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RobbieValiant wrote:
Or they could have case one with Apollo, and then kill him for a nice WHAM moment. It'd jar everyone, but that would actually be cool as a plot point- Apollo's death from seemingly nowhere affects Nick, motivating him to retake the bar, and we get a good story from it- Nick getting back into the game, seeing how radically other characters have changed over the years, etc. Maybe even a Rocky-esque loss along the way.
Yeah, I can't deny the attractiveness of the idea :) but I guess it makes the existence of GS4 even more futile. Maybe Apollo can get kidnapped except everyone thinks he's dead, and right at the end of the last case he's rescued. In the meantime, Phoenix feels guilty [like it's his fault Apollo was killed] and retakes the bar to try to get to the bottom of the murder, and see, Apollo's [currently non-existent] past is untangled in Apollo's absence, with Phoenix and Maya etc making their return. So the story can be about Apollo, but featuring the charismatic characters that GS4 suffered from being jilted..
Quote:
That would be an interesting idea, but if there was a time gap between AJ1 and 2 how long would it be?
I don't know, a few years. They need breathing space to separate him from Phoenix without messing up either char. I mean, Apollo was only 22 in AJ so maybe he can be 25, like Phoenix in JFA? If he's older he could have got some hypothetical 'development' too. A move to the 'next district' would also be helpful and should have happened in GS4 anyway. 'Next District' can still have Udgey and Ema.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Need I remind you guys that killing off Apollo is the one thing they are almost guaranteed not to do.If they do I'll have lost all faith in the series....it'd be like the writers making Edgeworth ridiculously gay....like Jean Armstrong gay for Phoenix just because the fans demanded it.
Actually....maybe that'd be so repulsive it'd drive off the Yaoi fanpeople....
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
:nick-sweat: Need I remind you guys that killing off Apollo is the one thing they are almost guaranteed not to do.
If they do I'll have lost all faith in the series....it'd be like the writers making Edgeworth ridiculously gay....like Jean Armstrong gay for Phoenix just because the fans demanded it.
Actually....maybe that'd be so repulsive it'd drive off the Yaoi fanpeople....
If they do I'll have lost all faith in the series....it'd be like the writers making Edgeworth ridiculously gay....like Jean Armstrong gay for Phoenix just because the fans demanded it.
Actually....maybe that'd be so repulsive it'd drive off the Yaoi fanpeople....
Good for you. I'd gain faith, it'd let me know they never seriously meant to replace Nick. <<
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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...We'll just have it be the usual Apollo/Klavier trial [hell I don't care just not Payne], and for one reason or another the outcome of said trial is going to piss off somebody something awful enough to sack Apollo, thus causing the main plotline for GS5. I still love Apollo and I don't want him killed, but if you guys insist...
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Spoiler:
There.
End of my opinion.
EDIT: Oh, and if Polly gets killed off, at least make it dramatic. Someone pushes Apollo into a vat of boiling glass wax. He drowns. And then...but Trucy...after the...so then...but what Ema doesn't realize is...but the snail!...and then Klavier...so Trucy decided that...and then...so the gun turned up!...and Trucy gets convicted twice!
Oh, wait, what?
You know what?
Never mind.
PEARL DIES TONIGHT
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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So, I want Phoenix to come and save the day when Apollo's in trouble in case 5-1 (kind of like Maya did in 2-1) and help him
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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After all the time someone spends with a character, I admit it's really hard to let them go. That's the only problem I had with Apollo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the game but at first I hated it. But then I realized, that it was a very good game as I went down the road. I don't want to see Apollo die or disappear as much as I don't want Phoenix to die or disappear but something has to be done. I believe someone in this thread already stated that one of the best things to do is integrate them.
Have Phoenix take care of everything outside of court. He has the Magatama and can break Psyche-Locks to reveal secrets of the one he presents it to. This gives us something more to do in GS5 than the almost non-existent scientific investigations in GS4. We get to spend time with Phoenix and he then relays his information back to Apollo who will shine in court with his Perceive System. I like this idea a lot, and I think this will work wonders.
But then there's others in this thread that brought up the idea of Phoenix overshadowing Apollo.
I have to agree with them. It's time to say goodbye. I don't want Phoenix dead, but I at least want closure, seeing him off or something, where to? I don't know. Phoenix was an excellent character, and as someone already stated before me, he's done all he can do. There is nothing left to explore, no more secrets to break. It's time to pass the torch on to Apollo and for those who hate him, just spending more time with him may change your minds. He has a lot of potential, I mean, we hardly know him.
The only problem I had with Apollo's game was the fact that -
Spoiler:
Maybe Capcom will realize that we want this.
So- I'm cool with two things -
1) Tag team Phoenix/Apollo action
2) Goodbye Phoenix
This is bullshit.
I'm done.
I'm done.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I would have just liked to have seen them, that's all. It would have been nice.
I'm not complaining at all.
I enjoyed Apollo, I would have just liked to have seen the characters (not all of them, maybe like 2 or 3) at least once.
Anyway, I hope GS5 comes out soon and hope they're working very hard on it.
If Phoenix stays or if he goes I don't really give a shit.
This is bullshit.
I'm done.
I'm done.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Amarhyllis wrote:
Wow...sorry.
Of course it's not unreasonable to lament their absence. They didn't even get to be allowed to have their names mentioned, let alone have their inexplicable absences explained in the 'flashback'. And Edgeworth didn't get an Easter Egg.
Quote:
Anyway, I hope GS5 comes out soon and hope they're working very hard on it.
I'm thinking they aren't. Edgeworth's game will tide them over for a while...
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I personally think they should have ended 3-5 with Phoenix changing professions, leaving a clear-cut ending, and then started AJ in N.Y or something. But they had to include only Phoenix and Trucy. Damn.
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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The Objector wrote:
How about Apollo, in the first case of GS5, is defending one of the people form Phoenix's arc that he has ties with, and Apollo has to defend him. Well, Apollo being who he is is, would fail, and Phoenix would have to forge evidence again to save his friend (whether it's Maya, Gumshoe, whatev) and he gets sent to jail? Or exiled from L.A or whatever? Phoenix is gone, but alive, and Apollo's all good. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy... for Apollo fans, anyway (and I am not an Apollo fan)
I personally think they should have ended 3-5 with Phoenix changing professions, leaving a clear-cut ending, and then started AJ in N.Y or something. But they had to include only Phoenix and Trucy. Damn.
I personally think they should have ended 3-5 with Phoenix changing professions, leaving a clear-cut ending, and then started AJ in N.Y or something. But they had to include only Phoenix and Trucy. Damn.
Phoenix fans wouldn't be haoppy their hero turns out to be an evidence forging crook, especially after that was what got him disbarred in the first place.
What I may find amusing is if Apollo was like Maya's ex and she's on trial (again) then I'm more just interested in seeing her slap him but sure I may consider it plausible for the inclusion of Nick era characters if Apollo has some prior connection to them, he could shed some light on what happened during the time skip. Dark cases that he attended with Kristoph, Franny detesting Apollo because she knew of a case where his mentor cheated to win, Pearl being accused of murder but gets off until new evidence arises!
These I may even like to see.
Also the lack of an Edgeworth reference puzzled me but after consulting CR's public the majority seem to think Ema made a reference with "A prosecutor should be furrowed of brow and cool of wit" (rougly paraphrased) considering how she idolised Edgeworth and a lot seem to think he is the 'overseas' friend that helped him set up the jury system.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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RobbieValiant wrote:
Or they could have case one with Apollo, and then kill him for a nice WHAM moment. It'd jar everyone, but that would actually be cool as a plot point- Apollo's death from seemingly nowhere affects Nick, motivating him to retake the bar, and we get a good story from it- Nick getting back into the game, seeing how radically other characters have changed over the years, etc. Maybe even a Rocky-esque loss along the way.
Yeah I agree it would jar everyone, I think it may go something like this:
1. Phoenix murdered
2. Trucy commits suicide and Apollo is an unemployed cynic
3. This scars Thalassa
4. Valant quits performing due to the effects on Thalassa and trucy's suicide
5. The town becomes more stressed and Vera becomes very upset because of what happened to Apollo and Valant retiring
6. Crime rate increases
7. Vera is too scared to leave her house again, Kitaki's legitmate buisiness faces trouble, and Ema gets really stressed by the extra work and the death of a friend
8. Kitaki's can't legitimately afford the surgery, Ema starts going crazy
9. Kitaki's forced to return to gangster work
10. Even higher crime rate, but the surgery is paid for, Winfred get's killed by rival gangster though
11. Wocki takes over, and Kitakis stay as gangsters, Ema even more stressed, Vera is more scared.
12. Ema is further gone, Kitakis hire Vera to prevent their people from getting arrested
13. The Kitakis become very powerful, and this power corrupts Wocki
14. The Kitaki family starts to take over the city
15. No one cares about noodles anymore
16. Eldoon becomes a doctor again
17. The Kitaki family recruits Eldoon
18. Kitaki family more powerful, Wocki more corrupt
19. The Kitaki family gains control over the courts
20. Ema becomes a danger to herself and others
21. Ema is taken to an insane asylum
22. The other detectives now have a larger share of the massive workload
23. they go crazy
24. there are no detectives
25. the police are gone from the city
26. Anarchy
27. The Kitaki family takes over and the city becomes ruled by a monarch
28. the Monarchy expands and becomes an empire
29. Emporer Kitaki is tyranical and incredibly corrupt
30. Lots of bad things happen in the new Empire
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Sorry, had to get rid of him while we were at it.
The idea of Evil Wocky actually kind of bounced in my head for a while, albet in a different form: still emotionally hurt about Alita and facing the fear of death [selling pastries doesn't make a whole lot of money, so he won't be able to afford the operation] he assassinates some rich guy and takes the money, and pins it on one of the maids.
...You know what just popped into my mind?
The jurist system crashes and burns and is deemed unfair [shouldn't be hard to figure out why], and in the trial of State vs Misham, rumors have started that Phoenix influenced one of the jurists [Again, not hard to figure out why] All of this is too much for Phoenix and he decides he's done with law. He gives Apollo the magatama as a parting gift and goes off on a vacation to figure out what to do with his life.
Yes, a depressing exit, but it's far more plausable than "Phoenix hangs out at the bahamas with Maya, Iris, and Edgey for the rest of his life". We all know Phoenix, and we know he's not the type to leave his friends on a whim [Before anybody brings up Maya/Edgey and the like, who says they didn't leave him?]. I just can't see Phoenix ditching Apollo without much of a reason, so I honestly prefer this approach to writing out Phoenix.
Anyway, Phoenix leaving makes Apollo the independent, responsible one [A change probably motivated by him being the only one left to take care of Trucy], and it shows in court as well, his policy has been switched to "Think first, act later", and he's generally more confident about his theories.
Phoenix's out, Apollo's distanced himself from his mentor, everybody's happy.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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LuminousXMI wrote:
RobbieValiant wrote:
Or they could have case one with Apollo, and then kill him for a nice WHAM moment. It'd jar everyone, but that would actually be cool as a plot point- Apollo's death from seemingly nowhere affects Nick, motivating him to retake the bar, and we get a good story from it- Nick getting back into the game, seeing how radically other characters have changed over the years, etc. Maybe even a Rocky-esque loss along the way.
Yeah I agree it would jar everyone, I think it may go something like this:
1. Phoenix murdered
2. Trucy commits suicide and Apollo is an unemployed cynic
3. This scars Thalassa
4. Valant quits performing due to the effects on Thalassa and trucy's suicide
5. The town becomes more stressed and Vera becomes very upset because of what happened to Apollo and Valant retiring
6. Crime rate increases
7. Vera is too scared to leave her house again, Kitaki's legitmate buisiness faces trouble, and Ema gets really stressed by the extra work and the death of a friend
8. Kitaki's can't legitimately afford the surgery, Ema starts going crazy
9. Kitaki's forced to return to gangster work
10. Even higher crime rate, but the surgery is paid for, Winfred get's killed by rival gangster though
11. Wocki takes over, and Kitakis stay as gangsters, Ema even more stressed, Vera is more scared.
12. Ema is further gone, Kitakis hire Vera to prevent their people from getting arrested
13. The Kitakis become very powerful, and this power corrupts Wocki
14. The Kitaki family starts to take over the city
15. No one cares about noodles anymore
16. Eldoon becomes a doctor again
17. The Kitaki family recruits Eldoon
18. Kitaki family more powerful, Wocki more corrupt
19. The Kitaki family gains control over the courts
20. Ema becomes a danger to herself and others
21. Ema is taken to an insane asylum
22. The other detectives now have a larger share of the massive workload
23. they go crazy
24. there are no detectives
25. the police are gone from the city
26. Anarchy
27. The Kitaki family takes over and the city becomes ruled by a monarch
28. the Monarchy expands and becomes an empire
29. Emporer Kitaki is tyranical and incredibly corrupt
30. Lots of bad things happen in the new Empire
I love this rundown....though really I'd rather no one died except Ema...
But the Jurist system can't fail....its the point of it just imagine Kristoph laughing his head off behind bars (presuming he's still alive) screaming "I WAS RIIIIGHT!!!!" about the common public having no place in law.
It would totally destroy everything Nick had worked for in GS4, granted they did that at the start of GS4 by making him a hobo but to destroy everything he'd worked on since then to redeem himself?
That's just too cruel for the writers
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
But the Jurist system can't fail....its the point of it just imagine Kristoph laughing his head off behind bars (presuming he's still alive) screaming "I WAS RIIIIGHT!!!!" about the common public having no place in law.
It would totally destroy everything Nick had worked for in GS4, granted they did that at the start of GS4 by making him a hobo but to destroy everything he'd worked on since then to redeem himself?
That's just too cruel for the writers
It would totally destroy everything Nick had worked for in GS4, granted they did that at the start of GS4 by making him a hobo but to destroy everything he'd worked on since then to redeem himself?
That's just too cruel for the writers
I agree, but it's no crueller and more futile than what the writers did from GS3->GS4 [or 1-5->GS4 for that matter].
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
But the Jurist system can't fail....its the point of it just imagine Kristoph laughing his head off behind bars (presuming he's still alive) screaming "I WAS RIIIIGHT!!!!" about the common public having no place in law.
It would totally destroy everything Nick had worked for in GS4, granted they did that at the start of GS4 by making him a hobo but to destroy everything he'd worked on since then to redeem himself?
That's just too cruel for the writers
It would totally destroy everything Nick had worked for in GS4, granted they did that at the start of GS4 by making him a hobo but to destroy everything he'd worked on since then to redeem himself?
That's just too cruel for the writers
I agree, but it's no crueller and more futile than what the writers did from GS3->GS4 [or 1-5->GS4 for that matter].
I acknowledged that, which is why it'd be too cruel to do it again.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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It's failing because it's a terrible system.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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...Or we could still let him be a hobo and take more piano lessons. I liked him when he was like that
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BBdoubleB wrote:
The Jurist System isn't failing to bone over Phoenix.
It's failing because it's a terrible system.
It's failing because it's a terrible system.
They aren't going to do that after they just made a game designed to put a positive spin on jurist systems.
Heck, that's what Phoenix was 'sacrificed' over in the first place.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Witness: Hah, you've done well in proving the possibility that I've done it, Mr. Justice! And yet, you lack definite proof.
Apollo: Indeed, I do. However...that's up to the jury to decide.
Witness: AAAAAARRRGHHHHHH!! *cornered theme*
Besides, it doesn't help that the Jurist system is rather biased in favor of the defense. I don't care if Phoenix goes down with it or if Kristoph is laughing his ass off from the fact that it was an epic failure or what. The Jurist system needs to die. The end.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BBdoubleB wrote:
I guarantee you the climax of the cases is going to be ruined if the Jurist system is kept in....
Besides, it doesn't help that the Jurist system is rather biased in favor of the defense. I don't care if Phoenix goes down with it or if Kristoph is laughing his ass off from the fact that it was an epic failure or what. The Jurist system needs to die. The end.
Besides, it doesn't help that the Jurist system is rather biased in favor of the defense. I don't care if Phoenix goes down with it or if Kristoph is laughing his ass off from the fact that it was an epic failure or what. The Jurist system needs to die. The end.
Yes, as a game mechanic, you have a point. Does interfere with dramatic culminations to case. Real juries aren't necessarily biased in favour of the defense. [They seem to be pretty much a marketing/propaganda exercise from some things I read though]. The MASON wasn't really shown to the jury and won't in future games. AKA hopefully won't be rigged in future. That was a stupid move on their part, to make it seem so corrupt and rigged. I guess they could make the prosecution rig it in future games....
HOWEVER, the jurists system was a fundamental requirement of GS4, probably the very catalyst for commissioning its production. I have heard Capcom got some kind of media grant out of it, since the Japanese Govt was giving them out the enlighten the Japanese public to the idea of implementing the new jurists systems there. GS had no choice but the make the game have a positive impression of jurist systems implementation. They were not, and could not, think how this might affect future games.
But note it's never said that the jury will be implemented just because one jurist trial was a success. For all we know, other courts in other districts had jurist trials, and in th end, the experimental jury idea was not implemented after all, not because of Phoenix and corruption, but because it just wasn't. Phoenix gets to be lawyer again [offscreen maybe], forget jurists, back to the usual GS program...
LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
BBdoubleB wrote:
I guarantee you the climax of the cases is going to be ruined if the Jurist system is kept in....
Besides, it doesn't help that the Jurist system is rather biased in favor of the defense. I don't care if Phoenix goes down with it or if Kristoph is laughing his ass off from the fact that it was an epic failure or what. The Jurist system needs to die. The end.
Besides, it doesn't help that the Jurist system is rather biased in favor of the defense. I don't care if Phoenix goes down with it or if Kristoph is laughing his ass off from the fact that it was an epic failure or what. The Jurist system needs to die. The end.
Yes, as a game mechanic, you have a point. Does interfere with dramatic culminations to case. Real juries aren't necessarily biased in favour of the defense. [They seem to be pretty much a marketing/propaganda exercise from some things I read though]. The MASON wasn't really shown to the jury and won't in future games. AKA hopefully won't be rigged in future. That was a stupid move on their part, to make it seem so corrupt and rigged. I guess they could make the prosecution rig it in future games....
HOWEVER, the jurists system was a fundamental requirement of GS4, probably the very catalyst for commissioning its production. I have heard Capcom got some kind of media grant out of it, since the Japanese Govt was giving them out the enlighten the Japanese public to the idea of implementing the new jurists systems there. GS had no choice but the make the game have a positive impression of jurist systems implementation. They were not, and could not, think how this might affect future games.
But note it's never said that the jury will be implemented just because one jurist trial was a success. For all we know, other courts in other districts had jurist trials, and in th end, the experimental jury idea was not implemented after all, not because of Phoenix and corruption, but because it just wasn't. Phoenix gets to be lawyer again [offscreen maybe], forget jurists, back to the usual GS program...
I questioned this a while ago....
Like as soon as it occured I realised this flaw.
The overwhelming response I got tended to be that it wouldn't change the gameplay at all....just the Judge's Patience health bar would be replaces with the Jury's patience health bar. Simple ya? If they work it that way I still think they'll include a corrupt jury member at one point or a threatened one.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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courthouse-steps/way-flesh-out-the-jurist-system-t12433.html
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Multiple paths....plus I hate the concept of losing just because you picked the wrong jurist. The instance where the guilty verdict is the right verdict should only be saved for special occasions like in the case of Matt Engarde but unfortunately I doubt this would work.
I still agree with some people that the jury will simply replace the health bar and get fed up of Apollo's bluffing before declaring guilty.
Maybe at a push, they could have someone from the jurist system murdered in an off-screen case creating rumours of corruption and gang interference in the jurist system, then it would be suspended up until the final case where you solve the case of the Jurist murder and get the gang leader locked away making the Jurist system safe again.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
I am the Objector.
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Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Ace Attorney simply isn't meant for replay.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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The Objector wrote:
No, but you would lose because you had a corrupt jurist. It would just open up more testimonies, and have less divulgent witnesses (witnesses don't want to talk), and just upping the level of difficulty. That would be truly awesome- The more corrupt the jury is, the harder the gameplay. You could unlock it after you play all the cases, maybe- just have it as a new unlockable feature to raise the level of gameplay and give it more replay value. The number of corrupt jurists grows, until it's almost completely corrupt, with one jury member becoming corrupt with every time you beat the case again. And on the final case (maybe after beating it 3,4, or 5 times), the entire jury becomes corrupt, and you can either play as Phoenix for the 'corrupt jury' case (kind of like a bonus) or, more likely, keep Phoenix in the 'Mia' role for the entire investigation and court cases.
Well technically if the entire jury goes corrupt your just guaranteed to fail...they'll simply say guilty.
But playing it so many times to unlock Phoenix is....admirable but I wouldn't do it.
Plus considering how the attorney defending is usually quite involved in the case and the plot, they'd have to re-write it for these special bonus cases unless you simply want a character swap of Phoenix and Apollo....but who'd want that? It wouldn't be Nick.
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