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Re: I'd like a case where...Topic%20Title
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Scatterbrain wrote:
And a case involving Apollo's background. :<
Oh yeah, it will obviously be present, for a simple reason: who is Apollo's father?

Maybe he's not dead, maybe he'll be the victim of the first case of AJ2 and you will know only in the last case...

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Re: I'd like a case where...Topic%20Title

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GigaHand wrote:

I'd like a final case where the final, climactic piece of evidence is
Spoiler:
THE ATTORNEY'S BADGE!!


Holy- Why have they not done this yet?

It makes so much sense! :acro:
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Stand back! I'm about to try SCIENCE!

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I had a cool idea for a case today. What about a case where Larry comes back?

Like, he's actually become a decent illustrator and made a name for himself. It would be a cameo, yes, but think about how interesting you could play the Successful!Larry/Hobo!Phoenix relationship? It's also a much less involved cameo than having the Feys back.
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Your friendly, neighborhood eccentric =]

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KyrieNobody wrote:
[size=75]Or a crime in a hospital? Or in Prosecution's house? The Courthouse crimes already exist...


Spoiler: AJ4
Actually, wasn't the Phoenix's last case about a hospital "murder"...???

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Hikka wrote:
KyrieNobody wrote:
Or a crime in a hospital? Or in Prosecution's house? The Courthouse crimes already exist...


Spoiler: AJ4
Actually, wasn't the Phoenix's last case about a hospital "murder"...???

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Hikka wrote:
KyrieNobody wrote:
Or a crime in a hospital? Or in Prosecution's house? The Courthouse crimes already exist...


Spoiler: AJ4
Actually, wasn't the Phoenix's last case about a hospital "murder"...???
Well, it was... but I mean a TRUE hospital crime, than happens in a hospital, the victim is a doctor, the defendant is a doctor, the murder weapon is a surgeon scalpel (maybe), the witnesses are patients ect...

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I'd like a case that would involve a Mafia war between the kitakis and the cadaverinis. Or maybe that apollo must prove that a member of the gang is innocent to stop a mafia war.

Another epic case would be where a guy dies at a mahjong table. Three people are playing. Suddenly after the last game the lights go out. The kille take up his gun and shoot the victim and then drop the gun on the table so no-one will know who did the killing.
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Re: I'd like a case where...Topic%20Title
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I want a flashback case where Mia with Law Student Phoenix as her assistant defend a teenage Apollo. Because I want some defense attorney overload.
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KyrieNobody wrote:
Rantzien wrote:
I would like a case where you have to cross-examine the judge.
Spoiler:
It already exists, is a certain way (AAI docet).

Hah, I got to that part shortly after making that post. Neat coincidence!
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Miles Edgeworth is something else

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I'd really like a case with Edgeworth as the prosecutor, the psycho Kristoph Gavin as the defense attorney and Oldbag as a witness. But Oldbag would also fall in love for Gavin and become really divided. Maybe, it could be fun.
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I'd like a case where one of the crucial witnesses gets murdered aways into the case. That would be pretty cool for drama and could turn the whole plot of that case around.
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I want Klavier to be accused of Godot's escape from prison.
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Re: I'd like a case where...Topic%20Title

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I agree. I like that idea, sounds cool!
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Bluesky wrote:
I'd like a case where one of the crucial witnesses gets murdered aways into the case. That would be pretty cool for drama and could turn the whole plot of that case around.

They half-did it in 4-3 with Lamiroir, but I would like to see a case like this. Bring it!

EDIT: I'd also like to see a case where you find a lead in the form of a person. All you know is their name, and that they're "some sorta stage guy". A performer, if you will. If you present their profile to Valant, you get this response.

Spoiler:
:varanbaran: "Know him? I am him."

I mean after all, "Zak Gramarye" is just a stage name. So is "Valant Gramarye".

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Please keep in mind this is not the Prosecutor's Lobby; therefore, you can't post AAI spoilers here. That includes tagged spoilers that are properly marked (which the two I deleted already were not).
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I want a case where some of the people are robots (Prof. Layton inspired, yes, but whatever)
And a case revolving around waffles, pancakes or BOTH. Because they're awesome.
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Scarred_owl wrote:
I want a case where some of the people are robots (Prof. Layton inspired, yes, but whatever)
You mean Miss Basil doesn't count? :keiko:



I really want a case where a decisive witness is Narcoleptic, which means he'll fall asleep when he gets too excited. I can see the dialog now...

Prosecutor: *Deskslam* "You saw the murderer didn't you? WHO DID YOU SEE?"
Witness: "You bet I saw him! IT WAS...... Zzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Prosecutor: "...."
Defence: "...."
Judge: "...."
Audience: "...."
Witness: "...... *wakes up* Huh? What was I saying again?"

That would be so exploitable for a running gag. XD
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I'd like a gag like that :D They *sort* of did it with Yogi, acting stupid like an old man. (I dont mean old men are stupid) but he did act dumb at first.
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But don't forget, Yogi was acting. This guy has an actual medical condition.
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I want a case where the villain wants to smuggle a poisonous flower or something to another country.
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Marche Tobaye wrote:
I want a case where the villain wants to smuggle a poisonous flower or something to another country.

Eh... After smuggling in AJ and smuggling in AAI, I dunno if I want smuggling in GS5.
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I have lots of ideas. How about a case with Pearl as defendant?

Or: the decisive witness is a killer in jail and he can't go in the courtroom... so, Vera should forge some papers to get him out.

Or: Franziska as defendant?

Or: murder in a churc!

Or: Trucy as defendant.

Or: the victim of 5-1 is a broker. In 5-4 or 5-5 we'll discover he was Apollo's father.

Or: an old, old, old, old case with loads of fire with a 10-year-old kid as only witness, his granfather as victim, his uncle (disappeared after the crime) as killer, his father as defendant and the only one who believes him is the defense attorney, Gregory Edgeworth (I said it's an old case, uh), and his mother, a magician. That would be killed by Apollo's father. Duh. Then the killing uncle would disguise himself as a defense attorney ad would be Kristoph's master, but his other pupil, Kristoph's "best friend" would discover the truth and the killing uncle kills him too. And only the 10-year-old guy, that now is a 42-year-old prosecutor (But Also Not) is able to catch him, with Apollo Justice's and Phoenix Wright's help.

Or: in the last case, the main prosecutor is the... victim.

Or: a famous doctor is suspected to have killed a patient, injecting a deathly serum.

Or: a doctor accidentally let a patient die, a very special patient, that had a terrible disease as other six children, and when the brother of that guy awakes from a long coma, a very long one (he fell in coma protecting his brother from a bioterroristic company), he tries to kill the doctor, but kills another doctor.

Or: read again the one with the 10-year-old guy; when he's 42, he looks for the help of an old family friend to protect the evidences from that case, and the killing uncle kills this guy too.

Or: Diego's brother as defendant. Hoping the victim is not Diego himself...

Or: Kay as defendant (the killer is... or a stupid guy, or Shi-Long Lang. Sorry, I'd love him anyway).

... no more ideas D:

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Bad Player wrote:
Marche Tobaye wrote:
I want a case where the villain wants to smuggle a poisonous flower or something to another country.

Eh... After smuggling in AJ and smuggling in AAI, I dunno if I want smuggling in GS5.

You're right about the smuggling thing being overused but I really like the deadly flower idea (which I got from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Dual Strike).

Spoiler: AAI
And I think the stakes should be higher. The last case of AAI, which had political elements, was a step into the right direction IMO.

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Marche Tobaye wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Marche Tobaye wrote:
I want a case where the villain wants to smuggle a poisonous flower or something to another country.

Eh... After smuggling in AJ and smuggling in AAI, I dunno if I want smuggling in GS5.

You're right about the smuggling thing being overused but I really like the deadly flower idea (which I got from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Dual Strike).

Spoiler: AAI
And I think the stakes should be higher. The last case of AAI, which had political elements, was a step into the right direction IMO.

Spoiler: 4-3
The problem is, if it's smuggling (ignoring the fact that AAI was all about smuggling, if of a different thing) they already did it in 4-3. 4-3 would be about smuggling cocoon-poison, and 5-X would be about flower-poison. It's just... >_>

Still, maybe the murderer could kill the guy by slipping the flower-poison into his food, or tricking him into eating the actual flower, or whatever... just not actually smuggling the flower.


Upping the stakes would definitely be interesting :3
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Marche Tobaye wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Marche Tobaye wrote:
I want a case where the villain wants to smuggle a poisonous flower or something to another country.

Eh... After smuggling in AJ and smuggling in AAI, I dunno if I want smuggling in GS5.

You're right about the smuggling thing being overused but I really like the deadly flower idea (which I got from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Dual Strike).

Spoiler: AAI
And I think the stakes should be higher. The last case of AAI, which had political elements, was a step into the right direction IMO.

Smuggling deadly flowers? Maybe something that would be related to Dahlia (name of a flower, what a coincidence!)... maybe "that" poison comes from this poisoned flower? In this case, it would be just like the cocoon smuggling: it's forbidden to cultivate that flower since "that" episode (or another episode, I dunno) but now someone has used the flower to kill someone...



And: a case involving a red ring of DOOM. I dunno how, but I want a red ring of DOOM, better if it can explode.

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Maybe there's a secret message inscribed on the inside of the ring, and it's either (a) what the killer is trying to get, or (b) the final present/evidence (somehow)

...and it's red :3
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Bad Player wrote:
Maybe there's a secret message inscribed on the inside of the ring, and it's either (a) what the killer is trying to get, or (b) the final present/evidence (somehow)

...and it's red :3


One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

The killer is a Ringwraith this inscription is all that Apollo needs to conclude that it was the killer's true goal. Through his intense knowledge of Middle Earth lore (having cosplayed as Legolas himself sometimes) he knows that the Wraith's excuse "That ring belongs to Sauron, it's not mine why would I want it?" doesn't hold water against their intense burning for the ring. The Wraith then tries to claim the ring is a fake.

The climax? Apollo dons the ring and disappears proving the ring real and causing the Wraith to go berserk (for an epic breakdown sequence) before Courtroom Security restrains him and takes him into custody.


Whether or not Apollo gets addicted to the power of the ring is up to the storytellers.
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Pierre wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Maybe there's a secret message inscribed on the inside of the ring, and it's either (a) what the killer is trying to get, or (b) the final present/evidence (somehow)

...and it's red :3


One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

The killer is a Ringwraith this inscription is all that Apollo needs to conclude that it was the killer's true goal. Through his intense knowledge of Middle Earth lore (having cosplayed as Legolas himself sometimes) he knows that the Wraith's excuse "That ring belongs to Sauron, it's not mine why would I want it?" doesn't hold water against their intense burning for the ring. The Wraith then tries to claim the ring is a fake.

The climax? Apollo dons the ring and disappears proving the ring real and causing the Wraith to go berserk (for an epic breakdown sequence) before Courtroom Security restrains him and takes him into custody.


Whether or not Apollo gets addicted to the power of the ring is up to the storytellers.

That would be a fun crossover :D
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Pierre wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Maybe there's a secret message inscribed on the inside of the ring, and it's either (a) what the killer is trying to get, or (b) the final present/evidence (somehow)

...and it's red :3


One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

The killer is a Ringwraith this inscription is all that Apollo needs to conclude that it was the killer's true goal. Through his intense knowledge of Middle Earth lore (having cosplayed as Legolas himself sometimes) he knows that the Wraith's excuse "That ring belongs to Sauron, it's not mine why would I want it?" doesn't hold water against their intense burning for the ring. The Wraith then tries to claim the ring is a fake.

The climax? Apollo dons the ring and disappears proving the ring real and causing the Wraith to go berserk (for an epic breakdown sequence) before Courtroom Security restrains him and takes him into custody.


Whether or not Apollo gets addicted to the power of the ring is up to the storytellers.

Amen (I love LOTR <3)

Hey, wait a second.. Apollo's Perceive Power IS a red ring of DOOM.
Spoiler:
He has the Healing Touch! °O° (the OST of the Perceive mode is called "Surgical Eyes", so... LoL)

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One case idea I had originally brainstormed for what was to be an Edgeworth-centric alternate universe fan game...T&T Case 3 (I think?) mentions a certain name a few times: a famous boxer named Gutsen Brawn. This case focused on Gutsen Brawn as a defendant - true to his name, he's a pretty tough guy, at the expense of some intelligence due to numerous head-poundings. The case centers around Gutsen's return to the world of professional boxing after a few years of absence, as he is challenged by rookie Flynn Butterby (the pun: Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee...yes I know that's not the exact quote). Thing is, though, while Gutsen wins the fight, it's only because Flynn is apparently killed by Gutsen's last punch. And so, Apollo has to look into other possible reasons that Flynn would have died during the fight, outside of Gutsen going "overboard."

My twist for the case was that Flynn had a pre-existing heart condition, and the adrenaline from the magnificent fight Gutsen gave him was apparently enough to give him a heart attack in the last moments of the fight - this lowered his guard, allowing Gutsen's knock out punch to connect, and while the referee was counting, Flynn died of heart failure. This twist effectively means that Gutsen is declared Not Guilty, and also that there is no "true" killer (though one shady witness is brought in for questioning when it's revealed in court that he was attempting to have the fight "fixed").

My proudest moment when writing the case was the character Enzo Spyke, based on many famous sports commentators including John Madden. He constantly wears a headset and carries a newscaster's microphone, sports a pretty awesome butt-chin, and is always talking in sports commentary...even in court.

<Apollo> Take that!
<Spyke> Ooooh, another vicious swing from Justice!
<Apollo> ...Swing? I was just getting out this evidence...
<Spyke> And accompanied by his trademark trash talk! Apollo Justice is clearly not going down without a fight, folks!
<Judge> Mr. Spyke, would you kindly cease the color commentary? That's my job...
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This sounds like a great universe to explore for a third case, especially the sports commentator :)
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wildweasel wrote:
This twist effectively means that Gutsen is declared Not Guilty, and also that there is no "true" killer (though one shady witness is brought in for questioning when it's revealed in court that he was attempting to have the fight "fixed").


Eh, I don't know that this would work. Most of the fun in Ace Attorney comes from finding a murderer and making him or her crack, it's no fun discovering a pre-existing heart condition.


I do like the idea of a color commentator-type character being a witness, though.
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wildweasel wrote:
One case idea I had originally brainstormed for what was to be an Edgeworth-centric alternate universe fan game...T&T Case 3 (I think?) mentions a certain name a few times: a famous boxer named Gutsen Brawn. This case focused on Gutsen Brawn as a defendant - true to his name, he's a pretty tough guy, at the expense of some intelligence due to numerous head-poundings. The case centers around Gutsen's return to the world of professional boxing after a few years of absence, as he is challenged by rookie Flynn Butterby (the pun: Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee...yes I know that's not the exact quote). Thing is, though, while Gutsen wins the fight, it's only because Flynn is apparently killed by Gutsen's last punch. And so, Apollo has to look into other possible reasons that Flynn would have died during the fight, outside of Gutsen going "overboard."

My twist for the case was that Flynn had a pre-existing heart condition, and the adrenaline from the magnificent fight Gutsen gave him was apparently enough to give him a heart attack in the last moments of the fight - this lowered his guard, allowing Gutsen's knock out punch to connect, and while the referee was counting, Flynn died of heart failure. This twist effectively means that Gutsen is declared Not Guilty, and also that there is no "true" killer (though one shady witness is brought in for questioning when it's revealed in court that he was attempting to have the fight "fixed").

My proudest moment when writing the case was the character Enzo Spyke, based on many famous sports commentators including John Madden. He constantly wears a headset and carries a newscaster's microphone, sports a pretty awesome butt-chin, and is always talking in sports commentary...even in court.

<Apollo> Take that!
<Spyke> Ooooh, another vicious swing from Justice!
<Apollo> ...Swing? I was just getting out this evidence...
<Spyke> And accompanied by his trademark trash talk! Apollo Justice is clearly not going down without a fight, folks!
<Judge> Mr. Spyke, would you kindly cease the color commentary? That's my job...


Tis good but I still think you need a main villain.

Maybe someone who fabricated evidence to make it look like Gutsen had motive and had planned to kill Butterby in the fight all along.
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The main villain should be Polly. Duh.
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Bad Player wrote:
The main villain should be Polly. Duh.

Oh no.

The main villain should be... PHOENIX WRIGHT!

Or someone that lets all the previous murderers free and calls back the dead ones. That would mean another family of channellers: I doubt that any Fey spirit medium wants to know anything else about Morgan and Dahlia... expecially Pearl.

Anyway, I made a case that would include the attorney's badge as evidence: there's a photo that shows the murderer, the prosecutor's youngest brother, with a gun and a badge on him chest, and the prosecutor claims to be his accomplice and let him use his gun and his badge, to help him to stealth... but Apollo objects and shows that the badge can't be the prosecutor's one, because it looks exactly like a DEFENSE and not a PROSECUTION attorney's badge. And we previously know that the prosecutor has heart problems, critical enough to surgically insert a pump in his chest... that outside looks exactly like a defense attorney's badge. So, the murderer is (what a coincidence) the prosecutor, not his brother.

Said like this looks nosense, but the case I created is more logical and reasonable, trust me :D

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Payne has a child called Lauren Alotta

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Crazy idea, stop me if you think it's too out of there. (thinking of using this as a fanfic)

An escaped convict (A.) runs away from two police members (B. & C.) a few minutes before the start of the new year. A. finds a burning building nearby and thinks that this would be enough of a distraction for the cops to get away. He runs into the alleyway nearby when he hears a voice in the building yelling for help. Thinking that this can be a hostage in case his previous plan doesn't succeed, he tries to "help" the man (D.) by pulling the burning door open. However, by that time, the cops come by and one of them (B.) shoots the convict to hinder him. The shot was too high though and kills A. instantaously. B. shoots a second time before the convict faints to the ground, but it doesn't have an effect on the murder.

So where does the defending part come in? Well it turns out that A. and B. had an affair beforehand and ended it when the convict went to jail. C. thinks that those shots weren't accidental and was really meant to kill the convict, while D. is too freaked out to remember what exactly happened. You have to prove that she didn't kill him for reasons besides her duties to hinder the subject if they escape.

Seeing that this is probably a fourth or fifth case, there is more than meets the eye. For example, C. doesn't actually witness the female's first shot and instead is at focus of another convict (E.) who was at the opposite side of the street with the same type of gun the police uses. When C. hears the first gunshot, he turns to see B. giving another shot, then back to find E. running away. C. then runs to get E. but when he finally catches him, the gun is missing. When he goes back to the originaly crime scene, C. finds that B.'s gun is missing as well.

And that's just part one of this case... There are more witness, more testimonies, more breakouts, and eventually, a third killer that no one will ever except (or rather not want to believe as the truth).

Think it's crazy?
Re: Any cases ideas ?Topic%20Title

Toffee!

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Kits U. wrote:
Crazy idea, stop me if you think it's too out of there. (thinking of using this as a fanfic)

An escaped convict (A.) runs away from two police members (B. & C.) a few minutes before the start of the new year. A. finds a burning building nearby and thinks that this would be enough of a distraction for the cops to get away. He runs into the alleyway nearby when he hears a voice in the building yelling for help. Thinking that this can be a hostage in case his previous plan doesn't succeed, he tries to "help" the man (D.) by pulling the burning door open. However, by that time, the cops come by and one of them (B.) shoots the convict to hinder him. The shot was too high though and kills A. instantaously. B. shoots a second time before the convict faints to the ground, but it doesn't have an effect on the murder.

So where does the defending part come in? Well it turns out that A. and B. had an affair beforehand and ended it when the convict went to jail. C. thinks that those shots weren't accidental and was really meant to kill the convict, while D. is too freaked out to remember what exactly happened. You have to prove that she didn't kill him for reasons besides her duties to hinder the subject if they escape.

Seeing that this is probably a fourth or fifth case, there is more than meets the eye. For example, C. doesn't actually witness the female's first shot and instead is at focus of another convict (E.) who was at the opposite side of the street with the same type of gun the police uses. When C. hears the first gunshot, he turns to see B. giving another shot, then back to find E. running away. C. then runs to get E. but when he finally catches him, the gun is missing. When he goes back to the original crime scene, C. finds that B.'s gun is missing as well.

And that's just part one of this case... There are more witness, more testimonies, more breakouts, and eventually, a third killer that no one will ever except (or rather not want to believe as the truth).

Think it's crazy?


Possible, needs to be trimmed down a bit. Seems a bit too winding, but I like it
Re: Any cases ideas ?Topic%20Title
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Gettin' Old!

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yared02 wrote:
Kits U. wrote:
Crazy idea, stop me if you think it's too out of there. (thinking of using this as a fanfic)

An escaped convict (A.) runs away from two police members (B. & C.) a few minutes before the start of the new year. A. finds a burning building nearby and thinks that this would be enough of a distraction for the cops to get away. He runs into the alleyway nearby when he hears a voice in the building yelling for help. Thinking that this can be a hostage in case his previous plan doesn't succeed, he tries to "help" the man (D.) by pulling the burning door open. However, by that time, the cops come by and one of them (B.) shoots the convict to hinder him. The shot was too high though and kills A. instantaously. B. shoots a second time before the convict faints to the ground, but it doesn't have an effect on the murder.

So where does the defending part come in? Well it turns out that A. and B. had an affair beforehand and ended it when the convict went to jail. C. thinks that those shots weren't accidental and was really meant to kill the convict, while D. is too freaked out to remember what exactly happened. You have to prove that she didn't kill him for reasons besides her duties to hinder the subject if they escape.

Seeing that this is probably a fourth or fifth case, there is more than meets the eye. For example, C. doesn't actually witness the female's first shot and instead is at focus of another convict (E.) who was at the opposite side of the street with the same type of gun the police uses. When C. hears the first gunshot, he turns to see B. giving another shot, then back to find E. running away. C. then runs to get E. but when he finally catches him, the gun is missing. When he goes back to the original crime scene, C. finds that B.'s gun is missing as well.

And that's just part one of this case... There are more witness, more testimonies, more breakouts, and eventually, a third killer that no one will ever except (or rather not want to believe as the truth).

Think it's crazy?


Possible, needs to be trimmed down a bit. Seems a bit too winding, but I like it


No no...I think it's just right, if only every AA case had a killer that came out of nowhere.
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Re: Any cases ideas ?Topic%20Title
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Why HER!? Why HERE!? Why NOW!?

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Pierre wrote:
yared02 wrote:
Kits U. wrote:
Crazy idea, stop me if you think it's too out of there. (thinking of using this as a fanfic)

An escaped convict (A.) runs away from two police members (B. & C.) a few minutes before the start of the new year. A. finds a burning building nearby and thinks that this would be enough of a distraction for the cops to get away. He runs into the alleyway nearby when he hears a voice in the building yelling for help. Thinking that this can be a hostage in case his previous plan doesn't succeed, he tries to "help" the man (D.) by pulling the burning door open. However, by that time, the cops come by and one of them (B.) shoots the convict to hinder him. The shot was too high though and kills A. instantaously. B. shoots a second time before the convict faints to the ground, but it doesn't have an effect on the murder.

So where does the defending part come in? Well it turns out that A. and B. had an affair beforehand and ended it when the convict went to jail. C. thinks that those shots weren't accidental and was really meant to kill the convict, while D. is too freaked out to remember what exactly happened. You have to prove that she didn't kill him for reasons besides her duties to hinder the subject if they escape.

Seeing that this is probably a fourth or fifth case, there is more than meets the eye. For example, C. doesn't actually witness the female's first shot and instead is at focus of another convict (E.) who was at the opposite side of the street with the same type of gun the police uses. When C. hears the first gunshot, he turns to see B. giving another shot, then back to find E. running away. C. then runs to get E. but when he finally catches him, the gun is missing. When he goes back to the original crime scene, C. finds that B.'s gun is missing as well.

And that's just part one of this case... There are more witness, more testimonies, more breakouts, and eventually, a third killer that no one will ever except (or rather not want to believe as the truth).

Think it's crazy?


Possible, needs to be trimmed down a bit. Seems a bit too winding, but I like it


No no...I think it's just right, if only every AA case had a killer that came out of nowhere.

What if the killer is the first case's defendant, that becomes your assistant instead of Trucy and Phoenix? So, the killer is definitely NOT out from nowhere, but actually you accidentally helped him/her to protect him/herself from the jail!

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Re: Any cases ideas ?Topic%20Title
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Also, are you trying to prove that B didn't kill A at all, or that B did kill A, but b/c of her job and not b/c of personal reasons?



Anyway, this has probably been suggested before, but I think it would be cool to have a case where the murderer is the victim. (That is, s/he commits suicide, but sets it up to frame the defendant as an act of revenge.)
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