Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Connections for me are simple cause and effect things, strong ones like seeing Mia Fey get Dahlia the death sentence leading her to breathe hatred for the Fey's in the afterlife manifesting in the motives behind case 3-5 you see?
Or the connections between 4-1 and 4-5 where we revist and reveal Shadi's backstory and stuff and explore Kristoph's other crimes revealed in 4-1.
Thats my idea of a connection.
With a theme or allegory....it's something that runs through the entire thing in my opinion. You assign a book themes, or themes to a film, you don't use them as connections because I expect them to be guaranteed to be in it. For me it'd be like a Phoenix Wright game without Nick if people treated themes as some kinda connection it'd be like OMG this game has themes? I expect there to be themes I don't consider them anything special, rather a simple component of the big picture.
Or the connections between 4-1 and 4-5 where we revist and reveal Shadi's backstory and stuff and explore Kristoph's other crimes revealed in 4-1.
Thats my idea of a connection.
With a theme or allegory....it's something that runs through the entire thing in my opinion. You assign a book themes, or themes to a film, you don't use them as connections because I expect them to be guaranteed to be in it. For me it'd be like a Phoenix Wright game without Nick if people treated themes as some kinda connection it'd be like OMG this game has themes? I expect there to be themes I don't consider them anything special, rather a simple component of the big picture.
Meh, difference in semantics, fair enough I guess.
Ok, so any story worth a damn is going to have thematic undertones, but that’s akin to saying that every story has a plot. What matters is the quality of the thematic connections, whether they’re implemented properly, thought out well, or even make any sense. Sometimes writers try too hard and your plot gets bogged down and convoluted (Matrix Revolutions anyone?), other times the premise just plain blows or is really tacky (Stealth, Timecop 2, The Island … flying long international routes tends to expose you to a lot of shitty movies). This topic mostly applies to movies and books, a lot of video games don’t need a plot and theme to be good (TF2, Smash Bros, DOTA)
Quote:
And I'm not sure about something thats been written well always generating better audience enjoyment. Personally I find some of the worst writing generates better entertainment value for me....based on the terrible quality Godzilla VS King Kong which was freaking brilliant to enjoy.
The “so bad it’s good” genre definitely has an audience; we wouldn’t have gems like MST9K if it weren’t for the B-move industry. However, outside of B-films, predicting which abomination is lulz worthy enough for a cult following is nigh impossible. These things sort of pop out after the fact and really don’t turn the producers any profit. You generally want to try to have a quality production … unless you’re Uwe Boll. Let me tell you there are a lot of really bad movies and games out there with no entertainment value at all. And personally, I find that lolbad films get boring after a while, I’d rather watch something that tries to be good.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
Meh, difference in semantics, fair enough I guess.
Ok, so any story worth a damn is going to have thematic undertones, but that’s akin to saying that every story has a plot. What matters is the quality of the thematic connections, whether they’re implemented properly, thought out well, or even make any sense. Sometimes writers try too hard and your plot gets bogged down and convoluted (Matrix Revolutions anyone?), other times the premise just plain blows or is really tacky (Stealth, Timecop 2, The Island … flying long international routes tends to expose you to a lot of shitty movies). This topic mostly applies to movies and books, a lot of video games don’t need a plot and theme to be good (TF2, Smash Bros, DOTA)
Ok, so any story worth a damn is going to have thematic undertones, but that’s akin to saying that every story has a plot. What matters is the quality of the thematic connections, whether they’re implemented properly, thought out well, or even make any sense. Sometimes writers try too hard and your plot gets bogged down and convoluted (Matrix Revolutions anyone?), other times the premise just plain blows or is really tacky (Stealth, Timecop 2, The Island … flying long international routes tends to expose you to a lot of shitty movies). This topic mostly applies to movies and books, a lot of video games don’t need a plot and theme to be good (TF2, Smash Bros, DOTA)
I know but if you say that games don't need a plot to be good and thematic undertones are like a plot in the sense that everything has them. Doesn't that mean that a game doesn't need to emphasise it much and make overly strong connections throughout the game to make it good?
Quote:
The “so bad it’s good” genre definitely has an audience; we wouldn’t have gems like MST9K if it weren’t for the B-move industry. However, outside of B-films, predicting which abomination is lulz worthy enough for a cult following is nigh impossible. These things sort of pop out after the fact and really don’t turn the producers any profit. You generally want to try to have a quality production … unless you’re Uwe Boll. Let me tell you there are a lot of really bad movies and games out there with no entertainment value at all. And personally, I find that lolbad films get boring after a while, I’d rather watch something that tries to be good.
Your probably right, still worth a watch every once an a while if there's something really hilarious but I'm kinda forgetting what our topic is and think we're getting quite sidetracked
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
I know but if you say that games don't need a plot to be good and thematic undertones are like a plot in the sense that everything has them. Doesn't that mean that a game doesn't need to emphasise it much and make overly strong connections throughout the game to make it good?
Wat? Im confus
GS is unique among videogames in that it’s pretty much a virtual novel. There really isn’t any gameplay involved. The plot and characters is all they have to go on, so they better be damn good. What I tried to say that most things with a plot also have themes to go along with it, as you mentioned they’re parts of a whole. A game like TF2 doesn’t really have a plot … or a theme either, I don’t recall saying everything had to have one.
Anyway we really are getting sidetracked
So … about Phoenix … um, kill him? Or Apollo, that’ll solve everything. No more main character spotlight dilemma! Maybe Lana will commit suicide in prison, causing an already stressed and depressed Ema to completely snap and thus asphyxiate Apollo by shoving a bag of snackoos down his throat. Only Lana’s death really wasn’t a suicide, it’s revealed after the fact to be the mastermind plan of none other than Phoenix himself. Turns out he’s always been evil and is constantly concocting schemes to dispose of unneeded pawns. After taking Kristoph down Apollo lost his usefulness … this explains why the Feys aren’t anywhere to be seen. GS5 will consist of Trucy exposing and defeating the demon that is Phoenix Wright*
Bah, its 7am here and I haven’t slept yet, been suffering from insomnia, my brain slowly starts to shut down at this point.
*Obvious crack sarcasm, if you couldn’t tell.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Dekuran wrote:
And you have to admit that 1-1 does not connect to 1-4 in any way. Sorry.
No I don't. 1-1 is a microcosm of premonition for 1-4.
Edgeworth, Phoenix and Larry are a trio originally linked by the class trial. This class trial is DIRECTLY responsible for Phoenix becoming a defense attorney. They became friends that day because Edgeworth and Larry were the only ones who stood up for him. Edgeworth and to some extent Larry standing up for him after he found out what it felt like to be wrongly accused and all alone inspired him to become a defense attorney. [3-1 was not conceived yet.]
1-1 is defending the lesser half of the trio of friends. Phoenix says at the beginning how he's defending his friend because he owes him and he's partly the reason why he became a defense attorney so he wants to help him. He's going to tell Mia the story 'later' [thwarted by her death] but alludes that he knows what it's like to be wrongly accused with nobody on your side and wants to help his friend because he's partly responsible for him becoming a lawyer, and we eventually find out the whole story in 1-4. It's 1-4 but on a much smaller scale. It has less magnitude, because Larry's influence was less than that of Edgeworth in Phoenix becoming the defense attorney [since he exerted the more recent influence of wanting to save him from being the Demon Prosecutor.] With both Edgeworth and Larry, Phoenix is sure that they're not a bad guy really, just misunderstood.
Odrom wrote:
You guys should give Icer a little more thought.
Oh thanks Odrom. It's rare I get a supporter
Oh, nice essay.Odrom wrote:
Anyway, there are a lot of things that I don’t agree with Icer on, however, I respect the fact that he (or she?) will take the time to spell out and argue his viewpoints instead of posting snide one-liners.
And thanks for that too, and it's SHE. [Why'd they take away genders????]
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
Dekuran wrote:
And you have to admit that 1-1 does not connect to 1-4 in any way. Sorry.
No I don't. 1-1 is a microcosm of premonition for 1-4.
Edgeworth, Phoenix and Larry are a trio originally linked by the class trial. This class trial is DIRECTLY responsible for Phoenix becoming a defense attorney. They became friends that day because Edgeworth and Larry were the only ones who stood up for him. Edgeworth and to some extent Larry standing up for him after he found out what it felt like to be wrongly accused and all alone inspired him to become a defense attorney. [3-1 was not conceived yet.]
1-1 is defending the lesser half of the trio of friends. Phoenix says at the beginning how he's defending his friend because he owes him and he's partly the reason why he became a defense attorney so he wants to help him. He's going to tell Mia the story 'later' [thwarted by her death] but alludes that he knows what it's like to be wrongly accused with nobody on your side and wants to help his friend because he's partly responsible for him becoming a lawyer, and we eventually find out the whole story in 1-4. It's 1-4 but on a much smaller scale. It has less magnitude, because Larry's influence was less than that of Edgeworth in Phoenix becoming the defense attorney [since he exerted the more recent influence of wanting to save him from being the Demon Prosecutor.] With both Edgeworth and Larry, Phoenix is sure that they're not a bad guy really, just misunderstood.
Odrom wrote:
You guys should give Icer a little more thought.
Oh thanks Odrom. It's rare I get a supporter
Oh, nice essay.Odrom wrote:
Anyway, there are a lot of things that I don’t agree with Icer on, however, I respect the fact that he (or she?) will take the time to spell out and argue his viewpoints instead of posting snide one-liners.
And thanks for that too, and it's SHE. [Why'd they take away genders????]
I dunno about your reasoning here Icer....
Really your only claim on it being connected to 1-4 is that...well they were all friends as kids.
But there is no mention of their childhood in detail (other than they are friends) or Edgeworth in 1-1 so I don't really see you can connect it to 1-4. If anything it's more connected to 1-2 as Larry made the clock that proved important evidence in the State VS Maya Fey case in 1-2 as well as Larry's case.
Really it's like saying.....1-2 is connected to 3-1 because Maya is the defendant in 1-2 and Mia is the attorney in 3-1 and they are family so the cases are connected
Least thats how I see the connection your making.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Spoiler: 1-1
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
Oh no. it's only the incident which made Phoenix become a defense attorney. Not important at all. But it seems you feel it's your job to disagree with whatever I say, so I see little point in continuing to attempt to explain what to me, at least, is such an obvious intrinsic connection. I mean, it has no connection to the title of this thread.
Spoiler: 1-1
Geez chill out,
Court Records script for that case down, I tried looking at it but clearly it must just not work for me if you can get it.All the same I don't think a lot of these 'connections' you see are intentional. Some things like him explaining Larry had something to do with him become a defence attorney do seem quite good, but that seems more like some ongoing plot thing than anything related to Case 1-1 or 1-4. The events in the case don't do anything to case 1-4 what your discussing are elements of the general GS plot, events that transcend all cases like Mia's death or Edgeworth's revolution.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Percei wrote:
Interestingly enoguh icer. It wasn't really the mock trial, it was Mia's second trial five years prior to T&T, the only reason that's said is to give a hint to his backstory because a second and third game were never intended. They changed it up to make Mia the reason he became a lawyer, because, if you don't remember, Phoenix was an art major up until that point. So get the facts straight silly :D
My facts are straight. I already mentioned the 3-1 ret-con. For purpose of writing GS1, 3-1 was not invented and irrelevant to the story design of 1-1 and 1-4. So it doesn't come into play in subverting my argument.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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idk and idc if they make him a da again, but many fans would probably wet themselves if he does.
he runs the jurist system and should stay with a supporting role.
Spoiler:
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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shogun wrote:
imo phoenix will make an appearance one way or another, whether you like it or not.
idk and idc if they make him a da again, but many fans would probably wet themselves if he does.
he runs the jurist system and should stay with a supporting role.
idk and idc if they make him a da again, but many fans would probably wet themselves if he does.
he runs the jurist system and should stay with a supporting role.
Spoiler:
It’s been generally agreed upon that continually focusing on flashbacks and reminiscing will just cause the series to stagnate and get dull. New characters, plots and drama are always welcome--as I wrote before, change is essential to character development. Besides, it’s not all that difficult to imagine Phoenix becoming disillusioned with the system and thus, become motivated enough to embark on that 7year mission to ultimately establish the jurist program. I agree its kind of odd seeing him as a shadowy puppet master but a lot can happen in that amount of time.
I wouldn’t say Phoenix transformed in to a devious schemer … just a plain schemer. The bloody ace wasn’t all that bad, despite being underhanded and illegal, the intents were for “the greater good” rather than for malice. He hasn’t become Gant, not yet anyway. Also, asserting that Phoenix used to defend his clients indefinitely is slightly incorrect (see 2-4). For you D&D nerds out there, imagine Phoenix shifting alignments from Lawful Good to Chaotic Good. Anyway, I prefer they not mention anything else about those 7years™ and just move on. We still don’t know everything there is about Phoenix (parents? love interest?), some things are better left for fan interpretation.
Just to note, “da” usually refers to district attorney, a high-ranking public prosecutor. I assume by DA you mean defense attorney? It’s not common to use the acronym for that meaning, had me confused for a little there. Technically Phoenix was a criminal attorney, but we call them lawyers all the same.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
All the same I don't think a lot of these 'connections' you see are intentional. Some things like him explaining Larry had something to do with him become a defence attorney do seem quite good, but that seems more like some ongoing plot thing than anything related to Case 1-1 or 1-4. The events in the case don't do anything to case 1-4 what your discussing are elements of the general GS plot, events that transcend all cases like Mia's death or Edgeworth's revolution.
are you fucking kidding me lol~*let's go over the facts*~
- larry is in case 1-1 and appears later in 1-4 as an integral part of defending edgeworth, ends up discussing the class trial with edgeworth and phoenix = clear connection and foreshadowing
- 'er, yeah, part at least' is a clear reference to edgeworth, the other reason for his becoming an attorney = clear connection and foreshadowing
- larry is the one you defend in 1-1 and edgeworth is the one you defend in 1-4: two halves of a whole for phoenix = clear connection and foreshadowing
1-4 is basically "this is edgeworth's, larry and phoenix' past", which is foreshadowed by 1-1 introducing larry and the concept that he is one part of why phoenix became a defense attorney
these are far and away clear connecting cases.
Herr Blondie wrote:
Do you see where I'm coming from?
no nobody does.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Gozu wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
All the same I don't think a lot of these 'connections' you see are intentional. Some things like him explaining Larry had something to do with him become a defence attorney do seem quite good, but that seems more like some ongoing plot thing than anything related to Case 1-1 or 1-4. The events in the case don't do anything to case 1-4 what your discussing are elements of the general GS plot, events that transcend all cases like Mia's death or Edgeworth's revolution.
are you fucking kidding me lol~*let's go over the facts*~
- larry is in case 1-1 and appears later in 1-4 as an integral part of defending edgeworth, ends up discussing the class trial with edgeworth and phoenix = clear connection and foreshadowing
- 'er, yeah, part at least' is a clear reference to edgeworth, the other reason for his becoming an attorney = clear connection and foreshadowing
- larry is the one you defend in 1-1 and edgeworth is the one you defend in 1-4: two halves of a whole for phoenix = clear connection and foreshadowing
1-4 is basically "this is edgeworth's, larry and phoenix' past", which is foreshadowed by 1-1 introducing larry and the concept that he is one part of why phoenix became a defense attorney
these are far and away clear connecting cases.
Herr Blondie wrote:
Do you see where I'm coming from?
no nobody does.
I kid you not Gozu the Barbarian
1: Larry appears in both- OMG?!? A trial involving Edgeworth...Phoenix...and Larry?! It must be 3-5 as well....big whoop a case has Larry. 1-4 Developed the backstory 1-1 didn't just because it has the same defendant.
2: "Er yea...a part at least" One line isn't enough for me not a strong enough connection, it's not that it's NOT mentioned it's just that it's mentioned so little its insignificant. We have no idea what the thing is and the fact it's mentioned so little means we aren't even interested in pursueing that plot point.
3: Phoenix defends both his friends....ok I get that....but it's not like the 3 of them are some holy trinity, the only big deal is that they used to be close friends and are all together in a case....by your logic again 3-5 is just as connected.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
I kid you not Gozu the Barbarian
i like thatHerr Blondie wrote:
1: Larry appears in both- OMG?!? A trial involving Edgeworth...Phoenix...and Larry?! It must be 3-5 as well....big whoop a case has Larry. 1-4 Developed the backstory 1-1 didn't just because it has the same defendant.
3-5 didn't involve all of their backstories, did it? and i didn't say 1-1 developed backstory, i said it obviously connected to 1-4 and foreshadowed it. lrn2readHerr Blondie wrote:
2: "Er yea...a part at least" One line isn't enough for me not a strong enough connection, it's not that it's NOT mentioned it's just that it's mentioned so little its insignificant. We have no idea what the thing is and the fact it's mentioned so little means we aren't even interested in pursueing that plot point.
whether it was obvious or not doesn't matter, the point is that it WAS mentioned and it WAS foreshadowing. and who says people aren't interested in pursuing that plot point? i was.Herr Blondie wrote:
3: Phoenix defends both his friends....ok I get that....but it's not like the 3 of them are some holy trinity, the only big deal is that they used to be close friends and are all together in a case....by your logic again 3-5 is just as connected.
see response to point #1
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Odrom wrote:
Quote:
GS is unique among videogames in that it’s pretty much a virtual novel. There really isn’t any gameplay involved. The plot and characters is all they have to go on, so they better be damn good.
That's pretty much it Odrom. Unlike most games where the most important factor is the gameplay, the GS series main factor is it's plot and characters. Gameplay, presentation and such should only be a secondary or um... thirdary thought. Unfortunatly, it seems along with the current generation systems out, GS4 forgot it's priorities. It focused more on gameplay and graphics, leaving the plot full of holes and lacking in character depth.
In fact, this is a problem with many games these days, too much emphasis on things other then the most important part of the game. Gameplay for instance, is often overshadowed by graphics and story. Sometimes I try to play a game and it feels like the makers are trying despertaely to hide the gameplay under the presentation and hope no one notices.
Anyway, I think we need to get back to the original question before we went off track.
I think Phoenix taking the bar exam could work into case 5-1. My idea is one of the new requirements to qualify for a badge is to take a mock trial where Phoenix represents a fake client, and he'd be quizzed and graded on his performance by his "assisstant", the teacher. She'd ask him questions about what he has to do in the trial, and Phoenix would have to answer them as a means of tutorial for the newcomers to the games.
Teacher: Now Mr. Wright, the witness has given his testimony, what do you do next?
Phoenix: ...this seems unnessecary...
Teacher: *whacks desk with ruler* What do you do next?!
Phoenix: Gack! T-The cross examination maam!! (Why am I doing this?)
To make things interesting, the mock trial is revealed in the end to be based off an unsolved case that Phoenix has just inadvertently solved. As a result, the killer of the real case was captured, which will play a part in the main plot.
Teacher: Good work Mr. Wright, you should be proud to wear that badge.
Phoenix: T-Thank you maam. (Looks like I'm doing the police's work now, wonder if I can get their paychecks along with this badge?)
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I guess they wanted to showcase the abilities of the DS with GS4 (like they did with 1-5). Maybe the story wasn't as good as other GS games (T&T had possibly the best script of the entire series) but it was still way above lots of games IMO. I liked the return of the 1-5 sciencey stuff.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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At the end of AJ, when the judge and Kavier are lecturing Kristoph, Apollo thought some thing about having nothing to say, that maybe he hadn't seen enough yet.
I think he'll be more developed in the next game, probably with something personal happening.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Gameplay is a tertiary concept.
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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Spoiler: Next Of Kin
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I sort of highly doubt he'd be reinstated as a lawyer--as he's said, he's not an attorney anymore, and seven years is a long time to hiatus from a job. Phoenix's changed considerably in those seven years, too... As it were, I really, really liked how Hobo!Phoenix has been presented as a morally ambiguous character, and it feels as if him waltzing back into court all spruced up would somehow detract from the gravity of losing his badge and the seven years he spent stuck plotting, waiting, and watching. ...If that makes sense. (For that matter, if he DID reappear in court, behaving exactly as he used to, I'd be very, very disappointed in the game writers.)
On top of that, there's been a lot left out of Apollo's backstory, and the black locks on Kristoph (and the scarring on his hand, if I'm not mistaken?) were never addressed--I also thought Apollo had a startling lack of reaction to Kristoph's true colors coming to light, and I was hoping that might be toyed with too...? If there's backstory with Kristoph to be revealed, there's a good chance Phoenix will be involved ...but imo the chances of Phoenix becoming the game protagonist again are pretty slim.
TL;DR I think he's changed far too much to reappear in his former glory. But I do think he makes an excellent Irresponsible Boss Type. 8Db
...What I am really interested in seeing in GS-5 is how Phoenix plans to tell Apollo and Trucy about Thalassa? Maybe there'd be a case with all four of them involved, possibly with either Thalassa or Phoenix as a victim?
...To that end, imagine a case where Phoenix was murdered/grievously injured and Edgeworth rampages back stateside to prosecute the ever living shizzles out of the defendant/Polly. Ahhahah, that'd be fun. 8Db
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
He should either be a player character or...
Spoiler: Next Of Kin
Murdering Trucy? Replacing her with Maya?
I wouldn't by the game.....well thats not true but I'd hate the writers.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Mike Christiansen wrote:
He should either be a player character or...
Spoiler: Next Of Kin
Murdering Trucy? Replacing her with Maya?
I wouldn't by the game.....well thats not true but I'd hate the writers.
But, Trucy's the replacement Maya.
In an idealistic world, they could coexist, but honestly, one must ask "how, without shipping?"
Besides, it would be a fun plot twist.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Mike Christiansen wrote:
He should either be a player character or...
Spoiler: Next Of Kin
Murdering Trucy? Replacing her with Maya?
I wouldn't by the game.....well thats not true but I'd hate the writers.
But, Trucy's the replacement Maya.
In an idealistic world, they could coexist, but honestly, one must ask "how, without shipping?"
Besides, it would be a fun plot twist.
No it wouldn't and they don't need to coexist...Trucy is the replacement Maya as in Maya is NOT there. Thats the beauty of it.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. xDD
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
I take it you don't like Maya.
Not as much as Trucy....and I'd like to see as few 'Phoenix' era characters as possible just so that they can utilise more new people other than Maya coming back and then Phoenix ganghauling the story so it's all about him.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Dekuran wrote:
Maybe the 1st case should be Phoenix in a Mason system symulator, where it creates a realistic courtroom scene.
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. xDD
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. xDD
You know, that could actually work. There could be lots of referential humour about the fact you're only playing a game, and the game knows this.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
Dekuran wrote:
Maybe the 1st case should be Phoenix in a Mason system symulator, where it creates a realistic courtroom scene.
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. xDD
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. xDD
You know, that could actually work. There could be lots of referential humour about the fact you're only playing a game, and the game knows this.
Like...
Phoenix: G-Gaah!! I need to win!
Digi-Payne: I-It's just a game. *Sweat*
---
But yeah, that'd give Capcom a chance to destroy the 4th wall. :D
'See that button in the top right corner? It's the court record.'
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
I sort of highly doubt he'd be reinstated as a lawyer--as he's said, he's not an attorney anymore, and seven years is a long time to hiatus from a job. Phoenix's changed considerably in those seven years, too... As it were, I really, really liked how Hobo!Phoenix has been presented as a morally ambiguous character, and it feels as if him waltzing back into court all spruced up would somehow detract from the gravity of losing his badge and the seven years he spent stuck plotting, waiting, and watching. ...If that makes sense. (For that matter, if he DID reappear in court, behaving exactly as he used to, I'd be very, very disappointed in the game writers.)
I think people seem to exaggerate how Phoenix behaves. From what I saw and played, Phoenix wasn't THAT changed from the way he was in the original trilogy. People are probably just seeing him differently because we're in another person's POV. Even Kristoph admits he's as overbearing as ever. If I may quote a line from Phoenix's mouth itself...
"My past is like my logic, straight and true. Nothing's changed."
Also, the pro-lawyer Phoenix fans aren't demanding for him to become the main character again, we just would like to see him get his life back in order. Just because he would become a lawyer again dosen't mean he has to be the main hero of the story.
Quote:
...What I am really interested in seeing in GS-5 is how Phoenix plans to tell Apollo and Trucy about Thalassa? Maybe there'd be a case with all four of them involved, possibly with either Thalassa or Phoenix as a victim?
...To that end, imagine a case where Phoenix was murdered/grievously injured and Edgeworth rampages back stateside to prosecute the ever living shizzles out of the defendant/Polly. Ahhahah, that'd be fun. 8Db
...To that end, imagine a case where Phoenix was murdered/grievously injured and Edgeworth rampages back stateside to prosecute the ever living shizzles out of the defendant/Polly. Ahhahah, that'd be fun. 8Db
Oh god no. Killing off Phoenix would be the final insult to his fanbase, the ones who are already angry that they disbarred him in the first place. Imagine tha rage people would have if he was killed off. As Herr Blonde said before, people would just resent Apollo's series moreso.
Dekuran wrote:
But yeah, that'd give Capcom a chance to destroy the 4th wall. :D
I'm not convinced they haven't already done that. *looks at case 4-4*
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Kinda.However DarkWobba, a lot of folks I'm betting are hoping if Lawyer!Phoenix is reborn that he'll take over as main, it's not just folk hoping he'll be a hardworking lawyer elsewhere.
And I hope they don't kill neither Thalassa or Phoenix, I don't get this idea that Apollo and Phoenix can't live in peace as I hear a lot of 'murder Nick' from various people....and I don't want Thalassa to die cause I support ThalassaxHobonick and would like to see her play a part in Apollo and Trucy's future yet....a not dead part.
Also keep Edgeworth out of it, I wanna keep Apollo's era as Phoenix-era free as possible. Besides Klavier is just as frothing-fangirl bait as Edgeworth or he will be with time I'm sure.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Besides Klavier is just as frothing-fangirl bait as Edgeworth or he will be with time I'm sure.
You have got to be joking.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Besides Klavier is just as frothing-fangirl bait as Edgeworth or he will be with time I'm sure.
You have got to be joking.
Heh he's quite popular ya know
Give him time.
I already heard a few folk suggest he should be the star of AAI:2 if there is one.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Spoiler:
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Besides Klavier is just as frothing-fangirl bait as Edgeworth or he will be with time I'm sure.[...]Give him time.
I already heard a few folk suggest he should be the star of AAI:2 if there is one.
I already heard a few folk suggest he should be the star of AAI:2 if there is one.
Actually I think Klavier gets less popular over time. A lot of people hate him, because he's a boring, superficial, spoiled brat and not even a decent courtroom opponent either, including ones who generally liked GS4. [There was this girl on Facebook who pretended to marry Klavier, but then after she actually finished the game she got sick of him and 'divorced' him in disgust. The entire spectacle was hilarious.] Only a few token people hate, say Edgeworth. And guess who got their own game instead of some Apollo-type GS5? Yeah, yeah, it's not literally 'instead' of GS5, but GS5 was undoubtedly further delayed since they have GK to cover the delays instead.
And sorry, I want Lamiroir dead. I hate her. And Misty died. And everybody keeps whining they want Phoenix dead, so I'm not about to obscure my desire out of tact. Either that or she doesn't turn up in the next game at all.
Quote:
Also keep Edgeworth out of it, I wanna keep Apollo's era as Phoenix-era free as possible.
This ceased being 'Apollo's era' the moment Capcom demanded a Phoenix return in GS4. The game is not called 'Odoroki Hosuke 1'.
Quote:
Oh god no. Killing off Phoenix would be the final insult to his fanbase, the ones who are already angry that they disbarred him in the first place. Imagine tha rage people would have if he was killed off.
Actually the outcry would be so huge they'd probably be forced to officially declare the entire 'AJ' thing an AU or a simulation in the Mason System. YAY.
Dekuran wrote:
Maybe the 1st case should be Phoenix in a Mason system symulator, where it creates a realistic courtroom scene.
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. [...]There could be lots of referential humour about the fact you're only playing a game, and the game knows this.
It's Phoenix's new system for the 'Bar Exam', Meaning that people take the trial at the end of their exam.
But it's like a computer game. [...]There could be lots of referential humour about the fact you're only playing a game, and the game knows this.
How much of GS4 and the MASON system is literal is DELIBERATELY AMBIGUOUS in GS4. In fact the entire GS4 is surreal.
However, I support the move for it to now be non-ambiguous and official declared a 'computer game' along with the entire GS4. And I'm sick of people thinking Phoenix presented the 'MASON System' to the jury when he clearly didn't.
Just think, when I started posting in these forums, we thought they'd officially announce GS5 in a few months! Let's speculate on 'reasons for delays'
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
Just think, when I started posting in these forums, we thought they'd officially announce GS5 in a few months! Let's speculate on 'reasons for delays'
Y'know what. Let's not. On-Topicness is the name of the game.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Though all the same I don't see why Lamiroir needs to die because Misty did. That'd just be cruel as Maya at least had a father SOMEWHERE but Trucy would have no blood parentage then.
And I do call the game AJ1 because it IS Apollo's era, Phoenix is merely a cameo, hell the series begins with Apollo saying "This is MY story" or something. Capcom approved that line just like they approved Phoenix.
Quote:
Actually the outcry would be so huge they'd probably be forced to officially declare the entire 'AJ' thing an AU or a simulation in the Mason System. YAY.
All the more reason not to kill Phoenix.
But to entertain your semi-topicness.
I'm betting they were just strung up with AAI seeing as its a whole new style it took some time, hell it's not out everywhere yet they still have marketing issues and other problems to deal with.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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And - IMO it is Apollo's era, but don't kill Nick or Lamiroir! Keeping Nick in a mentor/support type role is fine IMO if the game has to carry on as it is.
Killing Lamiroir is just cruel. Besides I want to know how [spoiler]Apollo/Trucy react to her being their mum. And where is Apollo's dad?[/spoiler]
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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icer wrote:
^At least half this topic is off-topic. And my question is surely related, cause they're delaying the difficult decision on 'What part should Phoenix play in GS5?' I bet that's part of the reason we still have no info or known production commencement on GS5.
That's just assuming that. Hell, they've probably decided ages ago what they were going to do with Phoenix. Honestly it's not that hard to decide what to do with a character. If you think about it, Phoenix wasn't THAT important in GS4, the only real pivotal role he played was the Jurist system in 4-4. In the rest of the cases, he serves as a plot device to introduce new characters (EG: Trucy and Valant).
Also, it IS Apollo Justice 1. Remember how Phoenix Wright 1 was Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, might I ask you what AJ, was called? That's right, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. And don't even bother trying to use the GS4 argument. It's called GS4 because it's the FOURTH TURNABOUT ATTORNEY game. In Japan, the title was based off the gameplay, not the characters/
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