Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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How would people feel if the victim of the last trial of GS5 was none other than Phoenix Wright?
Would you think that this would be a good twist to the case? And what implications and possibilities would it bring?
Would Phoenix as victim alter the typical way the case was handled on various levels, such as police investigation and prosecution, or even the Jury? What would this mean for Apollo and Trucy, for instance?
Finally, how would this effect the perception and treatment of the client over the course of the trial? Especially if their innocence is not entirely clear?
Finally, what if Phoenix's own death was ambiguous? Such as if the murder was witnessed, but the body was never found (fallen into a river, for example, leaving blood on the bridge?)
I'm going to reserve my own theories for a bit. I wanna see what people would think about this as a hypothetical twist for a final case of the new game.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Well back to topic and the final case will leave us with some questons answered but will end up with more questions, still hopefully it will be more Epic than the GS4 last case.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Why? Because I feel that Apollo should go through what Phoenix went through in 1-2, and also it'll complete the idea of 'passing the baton' on to a new champion.
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But I'm personally of the opinion that Phoenix Wright is immortal. He's escaped death/serious injury several times, if his name wasn't symbolic enough. Nick's a constant. He has a very immortal quality, and to throw him off a bridge after it all would ruin the series, even if he did somehow return as a ghost.
Then again, Phoenix Wright: Ace Zombie would kick all manner of ass.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Honestly, I would hate it if they killed Phoenix off (to the point that it might turn me off of the series all together) and I can't imagine Capcom risking it. It's a cheap way of getting him out of the games and rather unnecessary since they've weaved him into the plot so well. I wouldn't mind him being a victim, but only if he lived through it. I just don't see any reason to kill him off. Besides, that removes the mentor figure from the game, so the game would be down a necessary character. Not to mention that killing off popular characters is usually considered a very bad move (and a terribly risky one). Just my thoughts though. :)
You're probably right, actually. I think they could do it, but they'd probably have him survive in the end. They might do a double ending, one where he is found alive and a bad ending where he is never found, depending on the final courtroom sequence. The only issue with this is that it's been done.
Actually, that could lead to a complication in the trial; trying to discern whether he is dead or alive to invalidate the murder charge, using the logic that if he survives, it's attempted murder at most and possibly negligence (depending). I'm not entirely certain how criminal trials function when confronted with such a situation, however, so I don't know the norm.
Anders wrote:
I just have the feeling that killing off Phoenix at this point wouldn't be very creative at all. I'm a little annoyed at all the crimes perpetrated against main characters already, what with the killing of mentors and the accusations/kidnappings/robberies/attempted murders of sidekicks. If the writers want to do something with Phoenix that would have a big impact on Apollo and Trucy, I hope they don't go in a direction that's so....expected, given the franchise's history.
I think they do that in order to make the court cases personal. I agree they've done it in every single game, though I'm not sure if they can't make Phoenix's (apparant) death interesting.
The only thing I can think of right now that they haven't done is a case where an improper conviction will lead to someone definitely being murdered. For example, the criminal has left a message saying they'll kill someone, and part of the trial is trying to find out all of the aspects of a conspiracy, requiring prolonging the trial even though the client can be easily acquitted (and also putting the client in jeopardy in order to save others). I think aspects of this come up in 2-4, but I'm not certain this scenario has been done yet.
Quote:
Spoiler: T&T and AJ
Spoiler: Same as above
NinjaMonkey wrote:
Seeing as phoenix is still likely to be Phoenix Wright: Ace Hobo in GS5, I must admit that I'd like to see him bumped off (although there is someone else I'd rather see get bumped off myself).
Why? Because I feel that Apollo should go through what Phoenix went through in 1-2, and also it'll complete the idea of 'passing the baton' on to a new champion.
Why? Because I feel that Apollo should go through what Phoenix went through in 1-2, and also it'll complete the idea of 'passing the baton' on to a new champion.
That was a bit different, though, since Mia returned a few times via channeling in order to help you out. Her death was less consequential, in come ways, than Phoenix's would be (though still traumatic and final, there is some hope for brief reunion).
Also, I don't care how old they are now, I DON'T want Maya or Pearl channeling Phoenix.
Marshmello wrote:
But I'm personally of the opinion that Phoenix Wright is immortal. He's escaped death/serious injury several times, if his name wasn't symbolic enough. Nick's a constant. He has a very immortal quality, and to throw him off a bridge after it all would ruin the series, even if he did somehow return as a ghost.
I need to say it.
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
You were all thinking it.
Quote:
Then again, Phoenix Wright: Ace Zombie would kick all manner of ass.
Unfortunately, no verdict can be reached at this time, as the defense has just eaten his client's brains. Case dismissed.
...so, does this mean I win? OBJECTION! BRAAAAAINS!
EEEEEEK!
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It would wrench Trucy's heart apart. Poor thing. :<
I think enough daddies have kicked the bucket already.
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Bossmuff wrote:
Let's cut to the chase.
How would people feel if the victim of the last trial of GS5 was none other than Phoenix Wright?
How would people feel if the victim of the last trial of GS5 was none other than Phoenix Wright?
I already jokingly speculate Phoenix will be murdered in a final case, except that it will turn out later in the case he's not really dead. [Triumphant entry like in game 2 and 3!] However, Apollo etc. have to spend most of the case thinking he's dead. [And Apollo's father, really alive, 'murdered' him. LOL...]
If Apollo is defense attorney, then someone Apollo knows didn't do it must be on trial. Trucy? Maya? Apollo himself?
If Phoenix really died, I would be inconsolable...
I can't think of any reason they would want to kill Phoenix anyway. It can't be good for marketing.
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icer wrote:
If Phoenix really died, I would be inconsolable...
I can't think of any reason they would want to kill Phoenix anyway. It can't be good for marketing.
I can't think of any reason they would want to kill Phoenix anyway. It can't be good for marketing.
Same, but writers never seem to need a reason to kill off universally loved characters. There are way too many authors/screenwriters/etc out there who in the middle of a perfectly good piece kill of characters senselessly because somehow they think that it makes their work better.
I haven't received much of an indication of that tendency from the series' writers, but the fact that you never know honestly scares me. Killing Phoenix (or some sort of equivalent, ie him going missing or going into a persistent vegetative state or something) would completely destroy the series. If I knew he was going to die, I would probably boycott any further releases (which would kill me), and playing the old games again would make me cry. I wouldn't be able to look at Phoenix without thinking, "WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!", and my DS would suddenly be all wet.
Unless, of course, I knew he would be resurrected as an Ace Zombie.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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chazooma wrote:
Spoiler: Just in case
It would wrench Trucy's heart apart. Poor thing. :<
This is exactly the reason why I would love it; I'm always a sucker to break the mind of a little girl, particularly the cutest little girl ever.
But seriously, it would probably mess her up something fierce. I'm thinking she's gonna start developing abandonment issues pretty damn soon after that. She'd either go completely withdrawn, refusing to get close to someone for fear of loss, or clinging to those she cares about with the tenacity of a desperate bear. Or both.
Or neither. She could be the strong one and keep a stiff other lip for the sad, mopey Apollo. Though I'm thinking it's only a matter of time before she breaks down, and Phoenix disappearing on her seems like just the ticket.
As for Phoenix dying....I probably wouldn't mind if it was done in a REALLY good way. He's such an emotionally-connected character that putting him real danger (not just that 'case of the sniffles' stuff in 3-5, but actually real danger) of dying would probably help make a memorable case. I would want the case to be absolutely brilliant, just to do credit to the emotional weight.
Still, I admit my love for the Hobo, and would prefer that he is found at the end, or that he dies in a way that that's suitable for his contributions. The death would have to be masterfully done, too; he's pretty crucial to the plot. Still, I think it could be done well, particularly if they leave it ambiguous if he's dead or just missing.
A lot of writers kill of characters when it's not really appropriate, either to get a cheap effect or, possibly, to defy character shields. Phoenix coming to death at the final trial of the next game would be an end to four games of heavy plot, which could be handled well. He's done a lot, gained a lot of emotional impact, and resolved a lot of his plotlines, and having at least the prospect of demise might be a fairly good twist, if done well.
Plus, it could put Apollo in a position where he has to do things on his own, without his mentor's help (and with Trucy probably in a mental wreck).
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Bossmuff wrote:
This is exactly the reason why I would love it; I'm always a sucker to break the mind of a little girl, particularly the cutest little girl ever.
But seriously, it would probably mess her up something fierce. I'm thinking she's gonna start developing abandonment issues pretty damn soon after that. She'd either go completely withdrawn, refusing to get close to someone for fear of loss, or clinging to those she cares about with the tenacity of a desperate bear. Or both.
But seriously, it would probably mess her up something fierce. I'm thinking she's gonna start developing abandonment issues pretty damn soon after that. She'd either go completely withdrawn, refusing to get close to someone for fear of loss, or clinging to those she cares about with the tenacity of a desperate bear. Or both.
I'm thinking the girl would need some serious therapy. There are only so many loses a person can take before that person loses it completely and they're such a close family. Poor Trucy. She's been through enough. I would join her in a very long cry if they actually killed off Phoenix (and think very nasty thoughts about Capcom...). I never cry during games, but I've become absurdly attached to Phoenix (I'm also very attached to Trucy and Apollo so I would be depressed for their sake as well).
I'm not sure Apollo would fair much better honestly.
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Really, an "I THINK WE SHOULD ALL START LAUGHING ABOUT NOW"-atmosphere at the end of the game seems SO likely.
I think it might conflict with any place that the game is set into the plot though. Try to put it anywhere without having flaws and let me know.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Nah, they ought to make him the killer....O_O
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MercuryKitten wrote:
Nah, they ought to make him the killer....O_O
de Killer. Nick is the next de Killer.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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....Dude, I hope they don't kill Trucy. They wouldn't, would they?
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Mia_Fey wrote:
I'm thinking the girl would need some serious therapy. There are only so many loses a person can take before that person loses it completely and they're such a close family. Poor Trucy. She's been through enough. I would join her in a very long cry if they actually killed off Phoenix (and think very nasty thoughts about Capcom...). I never cry during games, but I've become absurdly attached to Phoenix (I'm also very attached to Trucy and Apollo so I would be depressed for their sake as well).
I'm not sure Apollo would fair much better honestly.
I'm not sure Apollo would fair much better honestly.
Spoiler: AJ/GS4
I can't seem to find any crying Trucy fanart. I'm surprised, actually.
It would certainly make the case a bit more erratic. It's bound to affect Apollo in both investigations and in court (for some reason, I'm imagining a screaming match between him and Ema over a piece of evidence). It may even lead to him being psychotically aggressive, and possibly coming close to pinning the murder on someone he suspects at the time, who may not have done it.
It'd be even worse if he starts to suspect his client. You do NOT lie to the man who's defending you for the murder of his mentor. Especially someone as emotional as Polly.
I think Ema might react badly too. Maybe she'd get more aggressive in looking for evidence to implicate the killer (and angry at Apollo for defending their suspect). It could theoretically be enough for her to forge evidence in order to implicate the defendant, but given her own history I have my doubts she'd go this far, even for Wright. Still, having Apollo catch her before and try to talk her out of it would be cool.
MercuryKitten wrote:
There are much better ways to get Nick out of the storyline than killing him off, if that's what Capcom wants to do. Have him go off on a trip to Kurain to visit Maya, have him always studying for the bar exam again...It'd be unnecessary to kill him. There's far easier ways to distract him, and it's really not necessary for him to die. Hasn't the poor guy been through enough?
No.
It wouldn't be so much about getting rid of him as creating a powerful, entertaining case. If they DO decide to get rid of him this way, it would be a hell of a trip and could be done very well, provided that his death has some meaning. It'd be more likely that he'd be alive at the end, which would give the emotional value without the angry, lynch-happy fangirls.
MercuryKitten wrote:
Oh yes, of course. *nod* Reminds me of this random crack theory that some crazy chick came up with where Trucy was a victim and Nick went crazy and became the next assassin in line.
So I'm not the only one who secretly hoped that Phoenix would go Gant on us.
Phoenix using his influence with the Jurist system, and blackmailing Ema, would be disturbinginly ironic. Absolutely would not happen, but fun to dream.
Quote:
....Dude, I hope they don't kill Trucy. They wouldn't, would they?
They have even less reason to off her than they do Phoenix. Less drama value from her death.
Besides, we'd never get to see her cry, and that is just unacceptable.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Spoiler: Zark's idea, spoilers galore(?)
), but just think of how the opportunity of Perceiving people would be many (not to mention a key comeback to the lovable Psyche-Locks!). For example, usually a rape victim would have 
I don't know, but I think I just presented something a bit more "interactive" than most cases (which is hard, if you look back at your favorite cases). Still, I think that not all people would find this to be an extraordinary idea... But it's a thought, you know?
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Zarkanorf wrote:
I, for one, would see something like Phoenix Wright dieing off by a very long shot, to the absolute point that not many would buy it, because many saw that coming. I, for one, have an interesting theory/idea of what could possibly be the last GS5 case...
I don't know, but I think I just presented something a bit more "interactive" than most cases (which is hard, if you look back at your favorite cases). Still, I think that not all people would find this to be an extraordinary idea... But it's a thought, you know?
Spoiler: Zark's idea, spoilers galore(?)
I don't know, but I think I just presented something a bit more "interactive" than most cases (which is hard, if you look back at your favorite cases). Still, I think that not all people would find this to be an extraordinary idea... But it's a thought, you know?
Well, firstly, I don' really think they'd do sexual assault in a PW game, since that would probably put it up to a Mature rating just by mention alone. It has a tendency to shock and polarize people, and would probably detract from the comedic tone of the games. Murder has significantly less shock value in North America, but sexual assault really hammers the 'mature themes' question. Frankly, I see it as less likely than Phoenix dying.
Secondly, I don't really see how it provides any more of an opportunity than an attempted murder, kidnapping, or even just a plain murder does. All of those elements (repressed memories, controversial subjects) are not dependant on one kind of trial, and could be done with any sort of traumatic or horrific crime.
Spoiler: 1-4, 1-5
Much as people said about this topic, I think you could get the same emotional bonds with another case. I could actually see Phoenix dying and provoking a similar response. Opinions on Phoenix were mixed (he was anywhere from idolized to despised for his fame and tactics), and I'm sure he could have inadvertantly ruined many lives in his pursuit of justice (Franziska was influence by her father's defeat at Phoenix's hands, but more extreme cases could come from other villians, such as if Gant or Redd White had associates or family. I could even see some people hating him for putting Gant away; the man did fight for justice and was fantastic at it, even if in a disturbing and unethical way). The Jury could be split on the idea of whether Phoenix's death was revenge or an emotional response (leniency, requiring more convincing).
Also, this probably should be in it's own topic; it's a whole new speculation in it's own right beyond the idea of Phoenix's death as emotional weight.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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I guess now that you put it that way, the ESRB peeps aren't going to let something like that happen. Weird, though, how America doesn't see murder as a really bad thing to consider... I guess my attention was, you know, something other than murder.
Spoiler: Case 2-2
But, getting back on topic, why would Phoenix need/want to die? The only people who'd want to kill him are behind bars, he can live through practically everything and more, and he has a "family" to take care of. I remember that the cases were to all lead up to one "mastermind" controlling it all, so if it was Phoenix... Wouldn't that be, you know, more ironic than a plot twist? All I could see that would want to kill him are Gant fans and... WAIT.
Iris returning! She doesn't have a life sentence, and she seems like the person to get out early "for good behavior", so maybe she would be attacked or would be attacking Phoenix...?
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I dunno. I still can't see Phoenix dying. Like I said before, he's immortal (and none of that metaphorocal crap either; Nick's the real deal).
It's more likely that another character will die, but not one of the main-main ones like Edgeworth or Maya (for the same reason that killing off Nick would be a bad idea). They could make Franziska dying really dramatic and powerful, for example.
... I just imagined a really depressing scenario.
What if Pearl died, and Maya channelled her so she could be the Master of Kurain? That would be so sad
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Zarkanorf wrote:
Iris returning! She doesn't have a life sentence, and she seems like the person to get out early "for good behavior", so maybe she would be attacked or would be attacking Phoenix...?
No. Just no. That would violate everything we know about Iris's character (It's one thing to tweak a character to show a change over time, but another to completely toss out everything we know about a character- it's the equivalent of saying that any of his other friends would kill him. She's his friend at the very least. Would Maya try to kill him? Would Edgeworth try to kill him? Would Gumshoe try to kill him? Not without the complete destruction of the characters we grew to love. Same thing applies to Iris). If you need people to kill off Phoenix, there is certainly no shortage of choices. There are plenty of characters with a grudge against Phoenix and plenty of characters without a grudge but that I could see changing like that without violating what we know about them. All of those possibilities would make a lot more sense. Iris trying to kill Phoenix really doesn't make any sense at all.
Although I'm still holding to my "no killing Phoenix stance," I could sort of see him getting attacked in the middle of a case to keep him from helping Apollo (perhaps Phoenix found some incriminating evidence against the real killer) and then having to deal with the stress of having Phoenix in the hospital (Yes, I said the hospital. Phoenix lives through it :P) and having to solve both cases now. ... That idea sounded far better in my head.
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[totally, like, changes his opinion again, ololol. God, I really should just stop turning on a dime...]
Also, does the last case have to be depressing? I mean, why not have the series go off with a mind-blowing bang than a depressing whimper? Do we seriously need someone to die for the last turnabout to be "epic"? Why not have something twistful happen, like Apollo's dad returning? Let's stop killing off the fathers and start having some people come back! I mean, I wouldn't mind an epic showdown between Apollo and one of the old prosecutors, let alone a cameo appearance by one of them.
Can't we just have a happy ending, with Phoenix and all the others alive and well, at the end?
EDIT: Of course, with a name like "Turnabout Nightmare", I would expect there to be some huge drama, but we all awake from our bad dreams sooner or later, right?
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Phoenix and Maya Fan wrote:
What about Phoenix being the victim but nobody can find the body but at the last part of the trial it turns out he's alive.
...I'd go with that! : D
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Also, thinking about the way that the games are structured, I can't really see it working, or having the kind of impact that I would hope something like Phoenix's death should have. The murders are shown in bits and pieces at the beginning of the trial, and to just shove Phoenix's death scene in a minute's worth of flashing scenes seems...depressing. I remember watching Mia get brained by Redd White and thinking
"Is she really dead, or what?" and then realizing oh...yeah...she's dead. It was a shock, I guess, since I figured she'd be a main character (hey, she's in the instruction manual! Haha) but since there's no time to really bond with Mia in 1-1, you kind of get over it. Plus, she keeps returning. But for Phoenix, I think a sudden murder at the beginning of a chapter would kind of be too abrupt. You'd go from the relief and thrill of beating a hopefully very exciting case, going through the "yay thank you Apollo!" bits at the denouement of the chapter, and then...the next trial will start with a bang! And Phoenix falls to the floor. I think...I'd be horrified. Hahaha. I guess there could be ways to make it ambiguous, and it would definitely draw your interest, but I think it's a cheap shot and the drama and suspense that seems to perpetuate around these final cases could be better achieved through some other method.
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Zarkanorf wrote:
Also, does the last case have to be depressing? I mean, why not have the series go off with a mind-blowing bang than a depressing whimper? Do we seriously need someone to die for the last turnabout to be "epic"? Why not have something twistful happen, like Apollo's dad returning? Let's stop killing off the fathers and start having some people come back! I mean, I wouldn't mind an epic showdown between Apollo and one of the old prosecutors, let alone a cameo appearance by one of them.
Can't we just have a happy ending, with Phoenix and all the others alive and well, at the end?
Can't we just have a happy ending, with Phoenix and all the others alive and well, at the end?
I totally agree. It is possible to create powerful and dramatic endings without killing people off, and it's something that I would love to see. The games so far all have more-or-less happy endings, and the bonus scenes in the credits are all very light-hearted. Making a really dark ending would really ruin it.
Zarkanorf wrote:
EDIT: Of course, with a name like "Turnabout Nightmare", I would expect there to be some huge drama, but we all awake from our bad dreams sooner or later, right?
I'm pretty sure that's just the name of the thread, but you just made a very profound statement
Mia_Fey wrote:
Although I'm still holding to my "no killing Phoenix stance," I could sort of see him getting attacked in the middle of a case to keep him from helping Apollo (perhaps Phoenix found some incriminating evidence against the real killer) and then having to deal with the stress of having Phoenix in the hospital (Yes, I said the hospital. Phoenix lives through it :P) and having to solve both cases now. ... That idea sounded far better in my head.
It sounds fine in my head
Actually it's probably a far better and more likely scenario than him getting murdered.If Phoenix knew what really went down, and then someone tried to 'silence' him, they could make it really dramatic. I'd love it if they kept you guessing till the end: "Will he survive?" (and not like in 4-4 where you get to choose... that ending was sort of cheap). But of course he would live through it, because he's immortal (I'm not letting that go. Ever).
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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:He's named Phoenix for a reason because no matter what he always comes back from the ashes.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Phoenix and Maya Fan wrote:
:godot: :He's named Phoenix for a reason because no matter what he always comes back from the ashes.
That's what I've been saying this whole time
Someone gets it!
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Also how about this for an idea for the next game, you get to do cases with Phoenix and then two cases with Apollo and then a big fifth case where you get to be Apollo and Phoenix?
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Phoenix does say in the AJ credits that he wants to either take piano lessons or retake his bar exam (jee, tough choice), so it's entirely possible that we get to play as lawyer-Nick again in AA5.
Or we could get a piano playing minigame.
Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Bossmuff wrote:
I'm going to reserve my own theories for a bit. I wanna see what people would think about this as a hypothetical twist for a final case of the new game.
Oh please, do tell.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Ayasato-chan wrote:
Oh please, do tell.
I've already mentioned a few of them in this thread, such as agreeing with that Phoenix's death should be ambiguous and that there should be a possibility that he will be still alive that will not be resolved until the end.
The thing I see with this is that it will immediately affect everyone on a personal level that will alter how the investigation will go. Apollo will be torn in defending the person who may have killed his mentor, particularly if the client' innocence comes into question for him. I would like to have the possibility presented, sometime near the middle or later in the trial, where the client could be guilty (seems to be hiding something, and evidence is strongly pointing to the client). This could lead to a lot of turmoil and anger, particularly between Ema and Trucy.
I think that Ema's reaction might be interesting. She respects Phoenix a great deal as the man who saved her and her sister. I'd think she'd be driven to find Phoenix, even at the expense of the investigation; conversely, she could throw herself entirely into finding evidence to put away the defendent. I wonder if, after Apollo has successfuly prolonged the trial by defending his client, she might end of considering forging evidence to implicate the defendent. This would be poetic, given her history:
Spoiler: 1-5
I could seriously see her and Apollo getting into a screaming match over the defendent's guilt or innocent, and an apparant betrayal of Wright.
Trucy would just be a wreck. As Mia_Fey suggested, she's probably have her adorable mind broken by losing her Daddy in such a way. I'd personally milk this for all it was worth (possibly having her and Apollo witness the 'murder', and Phoenix falling into a rushing river or something). She might even freak out at Apollo at times for defending the 'murderer', especially if the evidence becomes sketchy.
This could also be an opportunity for either Edgeworth or Franziska to prosecute the last case as the 'final boss prosecutor'. Both would take a personal stake in prosecuting (Edgeworth for his respect for Phoenix, and Franziska for her protective rivalry). This could add to the drama, especially if they berate Apollo for 'betraying' his mentor.
Even the Judge might be divided on the case, as he respected Phoenix as a lawyer. The jury, being made up of various people, may be severely split over the issue - some people either love or despise Phoenix, and public opinions could clash.
Spoiler: 4-1
I'd also like it if this entire murder turns out to be part of one of Phoenix's plans that gets out of his control. Essentially, part of the trial reveals that Phoenix was planning something else, and it inadvertantly resulted in the events. Make it a conspiracy, with people hiding various aspects. I'd want it to be as intricate and convoluted as possible, but there might need to be a balance. Also, it would be good if you're trying to show Phoenix 'going too far' with his new laxer morality. I could even see some VERY sketchy things coming up regarding Phoenix, although this might not work if they want him to remain a mildly-grey good guy.
As a minor point, I think it would be cool to have Olga Orly as the defendent. They could make her into a 'theme' defendent, like Maggey was (Maggey was in two cases, both where she nearly got screwed over because of Wright, although of no fault of his own). I could see them having Olga return as someone who ends up getting into trouble due to proximity with Phoenix Wright, being implicated for a crime that directly involves him.
There we go. Tiredness has granted your request.
As for playable Phoenix....it could be done, but I think that they should develop Apollo rather than split time between them. He'd become too much of Phoenix's 'plot bitch', and not get enough time to develop his own story - I'd like to see a final case where Apollo handles it on his own, hence one of the reasons I like this so much.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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If they do make Phoenix die and they don't do it exactly like that, I'll cry. I'll friggin' howl, because that's pretty much the only way they could pull it off and do it well.
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Re: Turnabout Nightmare: Thoughts on Potential GS5 Final Case
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Bossmuff wrote:
Spoiler: My god, this is a huge quote. Has spoilers
I was overwhelmed with epicness when I read this in the morning, so I didn't post my thoughts immediately. I must say, now that you've explained your idea in such a detail, discussion will be so much easier. I do, however, have my agreements, a difficulty, and two rumors to go with/against your case
I am impressed on how you challenged the writers of the GS series as well as the player themselves with a case so extreme as this; with every individual opinion, as you stated, the story will question the true characteristics in all of our beloved character's persons as well as our own personal views. The player is encouraged to connect and analyze the story with their own virtues, finding inside of themselves if the defendant truly did or did not do it, along with what verdict they deserve. Your scenario also reveals how the characters communicate with each other under harsh "conditions", which leaves some people like me to want to observe. Very awesome concept, but a problem with me arise in it.
It would seem that then the game will, once again, focus a lot on Phoenix again and less on Apollo. I mean, your case is amazingly great, but Phoenix's background has been pretty much explained to where a lot of the characters in the GS universe already has a connection to him, and then lacks who would be potential suspects with motives. A lot of people who do have both qualities are either dead or in prison, so that would mean introducing more characters to the series (which isn't bad) and having at least one flashback case to make sense of why they did it (which takes out two of the four/five "case-spaces" that a game would usually have, which is bad for the fans who demand to know more about other characters). I mean, yeah, I would like to know a lot about Phoenix, but we shouldn't give him too much character development compared to other main characters (like they did with Tommy from Mighty Morphing Power Rangers)! It would lose some of its famous "charisma" in storyline development, in my opinion. Still, after what I've learned, it would probably work out.
Remember that these are only rumors that I've heard, okay? Alright. So, I've heard from some sources that there were going to be not four, not five, but SEVEN cases in GS5, to have potential in going out with a bang. Seeing from the other games, some cases take up a lot of space in the DS cartridge's memory, which makes sense when you take account for all the mini-games, sounds, graphics, and coding required to make a game. However, I recall being terrified when I saw just how much memory can be stored in such a little chip. There was an accessory (I'll make a topic about it later) for the DS that could play/view your music, videos, and pictures with great quality, and all it needed was you to insert a small flash-drive (which was about one-third of the width of a DS cartridge, almost the same length) that stored all of the date.
That tiny card held 12 FRIGGEN GIGABYTES of flash memory [For those who don't know, flash memory is the type of memory USB flash drives use; you can store/delete as much as you wanted on it without having to go through one CD-ROM after another. An average computer has roughly 4 gigabytes of RAM (Really, it has 500 GB all together, but that gets eaten up quick by just having Windows/Linux/wtfever and their default programs on it, I think)]. With so much memory, you could easily slam the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney trilogy together on one card and probably have room on it for extras. Unfortunately, I do not know if DS cartridges used flash memory or RAM, so that's kind of iffy...
The other rumor I heard is that the last case was going to reveal a "behind-the-scenes" villain that was a puppeteer with all of the previous cases, and it was a character that was a part of the first three GS games (5 bucks and my hat on Gumshoe, rofl)! So maybe the person wanting Phoenix dead is the same person that is "pulling the strings" with the crime-world, which would make Apollo's last thoughts in Case 4-4 (before you had to choose a verdict) foreshadowing the future. O: Then again, these are just rumors, so don't quote me on this,
That's about the better, meaningful half that I wanted to say. :D
@ Ayasato-chan: You never know; Capcom might pull the carpet out from underneath us. O=
EDIT:
[Singature: coming soon to a Court Records forum near you!]
Last edited by Zarkanorf on Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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